What is caregiving?

[Lotus]

Are you sure your not getting mixed up? Isn't it your other friend who's a He.


Um..you make this whole friendship thing sound like it's the business.

You're be better off with the introtert stryffe, we don't need pals.

Introtert stryffe makes me suicidal.

Cut that shit out.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Introtert stryffe makes me suicidal.

Cut that shit out.

Fair nuff, what about the introvert stryffe?

[Lotus]

Fair nuff, what about the introvert stryffe?

Equally repulsive.

[ScanDave]

Yeah ESEs overdue the caregiving when it comes to ILEs. To me it always seems their timing is off. They are not thinking about the proper time to do something. Everything is right now with them. I know of two of them and one is my mom. My mom will wake me up about something that could most definately wait when I'm actually awake and can process the information better. It is annoying.


I always been curious how do LIIs apperciate the things ESEs do. Because I alway note ESEs are doing too much for the time they are doing it. After a while I get tired of it.

[Mediator Kam]

This is the thunderous return of Dolphin.

[JRiddy]

What the hell? Cooking is not type related, and cooking is not caregiving. How is this even Socionics? Seriously. If it pisses you off so much that she comes over and cooks you food and tries to talk to you, ditch her. I'm sure some other person will be glad to come along and be her friend. Do you know how nice it is that she took time out of her life to come see you? And yet you're lying around complaining that she's not meeting your damn requirements? What makes you think you can order her around? She's a person too, with feelings and thoughts. My question is, why the hell is she still around when you act like that?

Have you thought that since she's your mom, your ability to analyze her objectively will be biased? Skewed? Did you know that in fact pretty much everyone whines about their moms at one point or another? Sure, be all "omg I hate my mom. She makes me do things. She gave birth to me, raised me. She's got years more of life experience than I do. But I'm going to be like a pissy little teenager and complain about what time she wakes me up." No one's stopping you.

What the hell? Their timing? What is the proper time, then? At your whim? At your command? Have you ever just stopped, and said "Hey, they're trying to do a nice thing for me, I'm going to meet them halfway?"

I've always found it interesting that people come on here and bitch about people they've typed as ESFjs. How do they know they're ESFjs? Because they're cooking for you, of course. And forcing their cooking on other people, of course. And singing "Whistle While You Work", of course. And being loud and obnoxious, of course. And of course, since they're ESFj, they have absolutely no idea of the horrors they're causing to others. "Oh. My. God. She's cooking again people! Run for the damn hills!"

Because that's all caregiving is, you know. Wiping someone else's ass while they complain that you've got the timing wrong.

Automatically associate those things with ESFj. Automatically associate those things with damn caregiving. Make Alpha SFs, especially ESFjs, sound like retards, because that's of course what they are, and then make entire threads whining about them and how they make your life miserable. It's ALL type related.

+3,619,054 at least

[Mediator Kam]

I love her now you know riddy?

[JRiddy]

I love her now you know riddy?

Indeed.

[Logos]

I've always found it interesting that people come on here and bitch about people they've typed as ESFjs. How do they know they're ESFjs? Because they're cooking for you, of course. And forcing their cooking on other people, of course. And singing "Whistle While You Work", of course. And being loud and obnoxious, of course. And of course, since they're ESFj, they have absolutely no idea of the horrors they're causing to others. "Oh. My. God. She's cooking again people! Run for the damn hills!"

Because that's all caregiving is, you know. Wiping someone else's ass while they complain that you've got the timing wrong.

Automatically associate those things with ESFj. Automatically associate those things with damn caregiving. Make Alpha SFs, especially ESFjs, sound like retards, because that's of course what they are, and then make entire threads whining about them and how they make your life miserable. It's ALL type related.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

[ScanDave]

What the hell? Cooking is not type related, and cooking is not caregiving. How is this even Socionics? Seriously. If it pisses you off so much that she comes over and cooks you food and tries to talk to you, ditch her. I'm sure some other person will be glad to come along and be her friend. Do you know how nice it is that she took time out of her life to come see you? And yet you're lying around complaining that she's not meeting your damn requirements? What makes you think you can order her around? She's a person too, with feelings and thoughts. My question is, why the hell is she still around when you act like that?


Have you thought that since she's your mom, your ability to analyze her objectively will be biased? Skewed? Did you know that in fact pretty much everyone whines about their moms at one point or another? Sure, be all "omg I hate my mom. She makes me do things. She gave birth to me, raised me. She's got years more of life experience than I do. But I'm going to be like a pissy little teenager and complain about what time she wakes me up." No one's stopping you.


What the hell? Their timing? What is the proper time, then? At your whim? At your command? Have you ever just stopped, and said "Hey, they're trying to do a nice thing for me, I'm going to meet them halfway?"



I've always found it interesting that people come on here and bitch about people they've typed as ESFjs. How do they know they're ESFjs? Because they're cooking for you, of course. And forcing their cooking on other people, of course. And singing "Whistle While You Work", of course. And being loud and obnoxious, of course. And of course, since they're ESFj, they have absolutely no idea of the horrors they're causing to others. "Oh. My. God. She's cooking again people! Run for the damn hills!"

Because that's all caregiving is, you know. Wiping someone else's ass while they complain that you've got the timing wrong.

Automatically associate those things with ESFj. Automatically associate those things with damn caregiving. Make Alpha SFs, especially ESFjs, sound like retards, because that's of course what they are, and then make entire threads whining about them and how they make your life miserable. It's ALL type related.

First off I think I have the right to determine what is appropriate in my life. I don't care if they are my mom or not. I am 24 years old, and I don't live with my mom. So yeah if my brother lets her in, and she decides to intrude on my living space at an inappropriate time I do have the right to be disgruntled. While I am sleeping is definately one of those times. She is not the only ESE I know, but I used her as an example because I've seen this trait in other ESE. You don't have to agree with me. However, I am observant and confident in my ability to type in socionics.

Secondly, just because someone is being nice does not mean they have good intentions. They could want something from you, something you just can't give. Or they want you to like them, but have no intention of actually being your friend. People can be manipulative. Just because someone says they are your friend, and do things a friend would do does not make them a friend. So your "meet them halfway" just because someone is being nice to you does not hold up. I have learned this the hard way several times. You may be right in most cases, but not every situation is sugar coated and that simple.

I imagine Anamericancer is uncomfortable because she thinks this girl wants her to reciprocate. Deciding how to do that, or even what to do, when somone else gives so much is difficult. Especially, even, if the person is a friend and you are worried if what you do will be enough to be seen as an equal friend. Personally I'd rather not deal with the psychological aspects of reciprocation. Not an easy thing for me. I think I know where Anamericancer is coming from hence the relavance of my posts in connection with her situation.

Thanks for your two cents though. I know where to go now if I ever need shit for and opposition to my personal sentiments.

[Mediator Kam]

Secondly, just because someone is being nice does not mean they have good intentions. They could want something from you, something you just can't give. Or they want you to like them, but have no intention of actually being your friend. People can be manipulative. Just because someone says they are your friend, and do things a friend would do does not make them a friend. So your "meet them halfway" just because someone is being nice to you does not hold up. I have learned this the hard way several times. You may be right in most cases, but not every situation is sugar coated and that simple.

This ESE is supposedly cancer's friend, therefore your defense holds little water. It also have been extrapolated simply on an extreme scenario such as "manipulation". As my math teacher says, weak defense.

I imagine Anamericancer is uncomfortable because she thinks this girl wants her to reciprocate. Deciding how to do that, or even what to do, when somone else gives so much is difficult. Especially, even, if the person is a friend and you are worried if what you do will be enough to be seen as an equal friend. Personally I'd rather not deal with the psychological aspects of reciprocation. Not an easy thing for me. I think I know where Anamericancer is coming from hence the relavance of my posts in connection with her situation.

This post made sense until you said you agreed with cancer. She has been self-absorbed since the day I met her, and her lack of respect for one of her "friends" is appalling. Geez, backbiting her on an internet forum.

[Creepy-bg]

This post made sense until you said you agreed with cancer. She has been self-absorbed since the day I met her, and her lack of respect for one of her "friends" is appalling. Geez, backbiting her on an internet forum.

sometimes people just need to vent, especially when pissed at a friend they probably want to keep. the internet is a perfectly healthy place to do so IMO.

[ScanDave]

This ESE is supposedly cancer's friend, therefore your defense holds little water. It also have been extrapolated simply on an extreme scenario such as "manipulation". As my math teacher says, weak defense.



This post made sense until you said you agreed with cancer. She has been self-absorbed since the day I met her, and her lack of respect for one of her "friends" is appalling. Geez, backbiting her on an internet forum.

I was responding to Dolphin's comments about ever thinking about those being nice and meeting them half way. I agreed with her, with my "You may be right" comment. But it is assuming that people are perfect, and cannot hold other motivations than doing something "good" for you. Which is just as extreme. My comment had nothing to do with cancer's friend directly. Nor did I claim cancer's friend is being manipulative. Just throwing it out there to debate Dolphin's comment that is all. Saying it is a weak defense based on your math teacher, who is no where to be found to check if he is even qualified to make such a claim, is weaker.

For your second comment. That really has nothing to do with me. Bionicgoat said people just need to vent. I agree. I knew she was venting, so I did not take what she said so seriously. I'm not going to debate your personal opinion here. I'm sure it is a valid one. However, I am not a part of whatever you two have going there. Therefore, you cannot judge me based on the relationship you have with her. Leave me out of it.

First, I second Dolphin 100%. Well said.

Second, I want to comment on this bit about reciprocation and what you assume a person who does something nice (in this case an ESE) is assuming about having to be paid back in some way. As an ESE myself, it makes me genuinely happy to do things for people to help them out and/or make them feel good. That doesn't mean I go waking people up or coming over unannounced or anything like that, but it feels good to do something good for a person I care about. And you know what I hope for in return? Just a smile and a "thank you." That's it. I'm not aiming this at you in particular, ScanDave, but I really resent it when I do something nice for someone and then instead of appreciating it, they have the nerve to act like I'm being manipulative. You shouldn't project your own manipulative/selfish nature onto other people who probably just get a kick out of doing something nice for you because they care about you (deluded as they may be in so-caring). How about appreciating it without bitching that the homemade muffins the ESE has just made you are blueberry instead of chocolate.

As JRiddy said, get over yourself.

That is understandable. I know where you are coming from. I'm aware of the reasons most people do nice things for another, and do apperciate the best I can those things. My point is there are cases where there is ill intent. I'm not putting that on anyone here or on a type. Like I said above I was debating a point.

Some of you are taking things way too personal over a opinion stated to blow off some steam. And you know I thought I could relate a bit and blow off some too that is all. Everybody just chill.

[Creepy-]

Secondly, just because someone is being nice does not mean they have good intentions. They could want something from you, something you just can't give. Or they want you to like them, but have no intention of actually being your friend. People can be manipulative. Just because someone says they are your friend, and do things a friend would do does not make them a friend. So your "meet them halfway" just because someone is being nice to you does not hold up. I have learned this the hard way several times. You may be right in most cases, but not every situation is sugar coated and that simple.

I imagine Anamericancer is uncomfortable because she thinks this girl wants her to reciprocate. Deciding how to do that, or even what to do, when somone else gives so much is difficult. Especially, even, if the person is a friend and you are worried if what you do will be enough to be seen as an equal friend. Personally I'd rather not deal with the psychological aspects of reciprocation. Not an easy thing for me. I think I know where Anamericancer is coming from hence the relavance of my posts in connection with her situation.

First, I second Dolphin 100%. Well said.

Second, I want to comment on this bit about reciprocation and what you assume a person who does something nice (in this case an ESE) is assuming about having to be paid back in some way. As an ESE myself, it makes me genuinely happy to do things for people to help them out and/or make them feel good. That doesn't mean I go waking people up or coming over unannounced or anything like that, but it feels good to do something good for a person I care about. And you know what I hope for in return? Just a smile and a "thank you." That's it. I'm not aiming this at you in particular, ScanDave, but I really resent it when I do something nice for someone and then instead of appreciating it, they have the nerve to act like I'm being manipulative. You shouldn't project your own manipulative/selfish nature onto other people who probably just get a kick out of doing something nice for you because they care about you (deluded as they may be in so-caring). How about appreciating it without bitching that the homemade muffins the ESE has just made you are blueberry instead of chocolate.

As JRiddy said, get over yourself.