What is caregiving?

[Mediator Kam]

Secondly, just because someone is being nice does not mean they have good intentions. They could want something from you, something you just can't give. Or they want you to like them, but have no intention of actually being your friend. People can be manipulative. Just because someone says they are your friend, and do things a friend would do does not make them a friend. So your "meet them halfway" just because someone is being nice to you does not hold up. I have learned this the hard way several times. You may be right in most cases, but not every situation is sugar coated and that simple.

This ESE is supposedly cancer's friend, therefore your defense holds little water. It also have been extrapolated simply on an extreme scenario such as "manipulation". As my math teacher says, weak defense.

I imagine Anamericancer is uncomfortable because she thinks this girl wants her to reciprocate. Deciding how to do that, or even what to do, when somone else gives so much is difficult. Especially, even, if the person is a friend and you are worried if what you do will be enough to be seen as an equal friend. Personally I'd rather not deal with the psychological aspects of reciprocation. Not an easy thing for me. I think I know where Anamericancer is coming from hence the relavance of my posts in connection with her situation.

This post made sense until you said you agreed with cancer. She has been self-absorbed since the day I met her, and her lack of respect for one of her "friends" is appalling. Geez, backbiting her on an internet forum.

[Creepy-bg]

This post made sense until you said you agreed with cancer. She has been self-absorbed since the day I met her, and her lack of respect for one of her "friends" is appalling. Geez, backbiting her on an internet forum.

sometimes people just need to vent, especially when pissed at a friend they probably want to keep. the internet is a perfectly healthy place to do so IMO.

[Mediator Kam]

sometimes people just need to vent, especially when pissed at a friend they probably want to keep. the internet is a perfectly healthy place to do so IMO.

Fair enough, but I consider it entirely inappropriate to treat her ESE friend like shit here and then expect some type of positive comment. The girl clearly cares about allie, allie is failing her classes and missing at least one day a week of school from what I have seen, and it is apparently caused from sheer exhaustion. The ESFj came to help her in some way, and Allie has the audacity to shit-talk her.

[Creepy-]

Secondly, just because someone is being nice does not mean they have good intentions. They could want something from you, something you just can't give. Or they want you to like them, but have no intention of actually being your friend. People can be manipulative. Just because someone says they are your friend, and do things a friend would do does not make them a friend. So your "meet them halfway" just because someone is being nice to you does not hold up. I have learned this the hard way several times. You may be right in most cases, but not every situation is sugar coated and that simple.

I imagine Anamericancer is uncomfortable because she thinks this girl wants her to reciprocate. Deciding how to do that, or even what to do, when somone else gives so much is difficult. Especially, even, if the person is a friend and you are worried if what you do will be enough to be seen as an equal friend. Personally I'd rather not deal with the psychological aspects of reciprocation. Not an easy thing for me. I think I know where Anamericancer is coming from hence the relavance of my posts in connection with her situation.

First, I second Dolphin 100%. Well said.

Second, I want to comment on this bit about reciprocation and what you assume a person who does something nice (in this case an ESE) is assuming about having to be paid back in some way. As an ESE myself, it makes me genuinely happy to do things for people to help them out and/or make them feel good. That doesn't mean I go waking people up or coming over unannounced or anything like that, but it feels good to do something good for a person I care about. And you know what I hope for in return? Just a smile and a "thank you." That's it. I'm not aiming this at you in particular, ScanDave, but I really resent it when I do something nice for someone and then instead of appreciating it, they have the nerve to act like I'm being manipulative. You shouldn't project your own manipulative/selfish nature onto other people who probably just get a kick out of doing something nice for you because they care about you (deluded as they may be in so-caring). How about appreciating it without bitching that the homemade muffins the ESE has just made you are blueberry instead of chocolate.

As JRiddy said, get over yourself.

[ScanDave]

This ESE is supposedly cancer's friend, therefore your defense holds little water. It also have been extrapolated simply on an extreme scenario such as "manipulation". As my math teacher says, weak defense.



This post made sense until you said you agreed with cancer. She has been self-absorbed since the day I met her, and her lack of respect for one of her "friends" is appalling. Geez, backbiting her on an internet forum.

I was responding to Dolphin's comments about ever thinking about those being nice and meeting them half way. I agreed with her, with my "You may be right" comment. But it is assuming that people are perfect, and cannot hold other motivations than doing something "good" for you. Which is just as extreme. My comment had nothing to do with cancer's friend directly. Nor did I claim cancer's friend is being manipulative. Just throwing it out there to debate Dolphin's comment that is all. Saying it is a weak defense based on your math teacher, who is no where to be found to check if he is even qualified to make such a claim, is weaker.

For your second comment. That really has nothing to do with me. Bionicgoat said people just need to vent. I agree. I knew she was venting, so I did not take what she said so seriously. I'm not going to debate your personal opinion here. I'm sure it is a valid one. However, I am not a part of whatever you two have going there. Therefore, you cannot judge me based on the relationship you have with her. Leave me out of it.

First, I second Dolphin 100%. Well said.

Second, I want to comment on this bit about reciprocation and what you assume a person who does something nice (in this case an ESE) is assuming about having to be paid back in some way. As an ESE myself, it makes me genuinely happy to do things for people to help them out and/or make them feel good. That doesn't mean I go waking people up or coming over unannounced or anything like that, but it feels good to do something good for a person I care about. And you know what I hope for in return? Just a smile and a "thank you." That's it. I'm not aiming this at you in particular, ScanDave, but I really resent it when I do something nice for someone and then instead of appreciating it, they have the nerve to act like I'm being manipulative. You shouldn't project your own manipulative/selfish nature onto other people who probably just get a kick out of doing something nice for you because they care about you (deluded as they may be in so-caring). How about appreciating it without bitching that the homemade muffins the ESE has just made you are blueberry instead of chocolate.

As JRiddy said, get over yourself.

That is understandable. I know where you are coming from. I'm aware of the reasons most people do nice things for another, and do apperciate the best I can those things. My point is there are cases where there is ill intent. I'm not putting that on anyone here or on a type. Like I said above I was debating a point.

Some of you are taking things way too personal over a opinion stated to blow off some steam. And you know I thought I could relate a bit and blow off some too that is all. Everybody just chill.

[Mediator Kam]

haha, I was just quoting him, I just considered your rationale weak. By the way, he's been teaching for 36 years.

Just throwing it out there to debate Dolphin's comment that is all.

Just throwing it out? No wonder. Anyway, thanks for posting here. We're all chill.

[Creepy-]

That is understandable. I know where you are coming from. I'm aware of the reasons most people do nice things for another, and do apperciate the best I can those things. My point is there are cases where there is ill intent. I'm not putting that on anyone here or on a type. Like I said above I was debating a point.

Some of you are taking things way too personal over a opinion stated to blow off some steam. And you know I thought I could relate a bit and blow off some too that is all. Everybody just chill.

Yeah, like I said it wasn't necessarily directed at you; something like this happened to me recently where I did something I thought was nice, and the person freaked out like I was trying to trick him, which was confusing/hurtful. No worries... I get that you need to blow off steam. Go for it - just realize you may inspire others to do the same, in the opposite direction. Cheers

[ScanDave]

Yeah, like I said it wasn't necessarily directed at you; something like this happened to me recently where I did something I thought was nice, and the person freaked out like I was trying to trick him, which was confusing/hurtful. No worries... I get that you need to blow off steam. Go for it - just realize you may inspire others to do the same, in the opposite direction. Cheers

Well did you ask him what was the deal? A little understanding can go a long way. Not to claim to know him, but maybe a situation in the past was similar where he was indeed tricked? Sucks to know you did your best, and it did not get the desired result. I know that feeling.


And Kamangir my rational is not weak when I can list examples, experiences, and scenarios to back up what I said. Seriously, there are people out there that can be down right dirty. I respect your opinion though because I see what you meant from your point of view.

[Mediator Kam]

=) You are right. You think the thread creator is asleep? She needs to sleep more. Maybe that was why she seemed so cruel. She stays up until 4-5 in the morning, and can't get up for school. ):

[ScanDave]

=) You are right. You think the thread creator is asleep? She needs to sleep more. Maybe that was why she seemed so cruel. She stays up until 4-5 in the morning, and can't get up for school. ):

Spoken like a true "caregiver." LMAO!

[Mediator Kam]

It's the truth, it pains me to see people not take care of themselves, when sleep and eating right, etc is easy for me. But I'm not looking down on people who do not, I want to make them feel better.

[ScanDave]

It's the truth, it pains me to see people not take care of themselves, when sleep and eating right, etc is easy for me. But I'm not looking down on people who do not, I want to make them feel better.

I do get cranky when I have little sleep. Telling me to get some sleep is the easy part. Getting it to stick is the hard part. My ESE and SEI friends tell me to go to bed all the time. I really do apperciate it.

[xyz]

Heh, you people are funny.

[xyz]

Your little rant on "wah wah don't blame ESFjs for everything" made me vomit in my mouth a little bit.

[JRiddy]

I still think Anamericancer is cool, for the record. I get the whole blowing off steam thing; I do it too. But it's so easy to get wrapped up in your own feelings and stuff, that the best way do deal with it is often to stop worrying about yourself and be grateful for other people. I know because it happens to me too.

[JRiddy]

Thanks Dr. Phil.

:-p

[Lotus]

Um, no. I WASNT asleep.

I was at work. And I honestly didn't expect these reactions. Wow.




First off, I wish people wouldn't judge me from a thread I should have never posted.
I was venting and none of you actually know what happened this morning.

I couldn't have cared less if no one responded at all, because it's only purpose was letting off steam, not to have everyone sympathize with me.

And I wasn't complaining about ESFj's OR caregiving...

Just having your closest friend come over and act all disappointed in you because you
slept in. And even though she thinks she's being helpful, it's only making me feel like shit.

And some of the things said by her were not things that I could have possibly responded well to.

And Kam... you have no idea what you're talking about.
At ALL. So please don't act like you do.

[Lotus]

Thanks for clarifying, because none of this was clear in your first post.

But hell, I was venting too. It happens.

I can understand your reaction at least.
Because you backed everything you said with reasons why you felt that way...
but there's really no excuse for people to say things about me that aren't true.

For example, I have no idea why Kam thinks that I miss AT LEAST a day of school out of every week...

wtf?

[xyz]

I think caregiving is when someone cleans the lint off of a shirt with a piece of tape, because the rest of the sticky on the lint roller ran out.

heh my mom does that.





... I hate it!

[Mediator Kam]

And Kam... you have no idea what you're talking about.
At ALL. So please don't act like you do.

Waiting for you to explain yourself...... Or are you tired?

I made my points clear and concise, which is more than you've ever done.

[Lotus]

Waiting for you to explain yourself...... Or are you tired?

I made my points clear and concise, which is more than you've ever done.

Fair enough, but I consider it entirely inappropriate to treat her ESE friend like shit here and then expect some type of positive comment. The girl clearly cares about allie, allie is failing her classes and missing at least one day a week of school from what I have seen, and it is apparently caused from sheer exhaustion. The ESFj came to help her in some way, and Allie has the audacity to shit-talk her.

You don't know me.
Stop pretending, it's pathetic and creepy.

[Mediator Kam]

I was actually expecting something that made sense. Once again, I was asking for too much from you. Off you go.

[ScanDave]

I think infantiling is when someone uses the public bathroom, then kicks themselves when they see that there's no toilet paper.

I think aggressoring is when someone taps an egg too hard when trying to crack the shell open, spilling the yolk somewhere it shouldn't be.

I think victiming is when someone has to wait 15 minutes before drinking their beer, because they couldn't figure out how to use the bottle opener.

LOL. When I was younger, I used to hate using a bottle opener and would pretend I did not know how to use it so someone would do it for me. I had multiple occassions where I used to open a bottle, my hand flew up hitting myself in the nose and it started bleeding. The other times the contents shook up and sprayed everywhere. Then another time I had a flying cork hit me in the eye. I have had bad luck when it comes to opening stuff, so every now and then I get images of it all can go wrong. I'm no stranger to havind mild OCD tendecies though.

[Khola aka Bee]

Am I supposed to like it? Because right now I've got an ESE in my house running around doing whatever she pleases.

And she's "caregiving" and it's pissing me off.

Just because I happened to fall asleep approximately two hours before I was supposed to wake up, and consequently missed school, does not mean I have a serious problem.
I don't need a fucking "intervention" and I don't need people to miss school to come find me and force-feed me their spinach pizza.

Nor do I need anyone barging into my room while I'm sleeping and demand that I sit up so they can talk to me. WHEN I'M SLEEPING, I DON'T WANT TO TALK TO ANYONE, HOLYSHIT!
Is that not obvious as hell to anyone else?

When I am hiding under my sheets from you, moaning and groaning for you to get the fuck out, and cringing at all this food and drink you're trying to shove down my throat....
is that not a sign that I want you to leave?


HOW IS DOING SOMETHING LIKE THAT CONSIDERED "CARING" ?


Sorry about the ranting... go ahead and interpret this topic in whatever way you fancy, and respond accordingly...

Or tell me what the fuck "caregiving" is......

Allie

Come here, let me wipe your face with a hot flannel and get you a cuppa hot chocolate. Do you feel better now? OMG, you're awfully angry. Are you feeling ok?

lol.

[Hitta]

Am I supposed to like it? Because right now I've got an ESE in my house running around doing whatever she pleases.

And she's "caregiving" and it's pissing me off.

Just because I happened to fall asleep approximately two hours before I was supposed to wake up, and consequently missed school, does not mean I have a serious problem.
I don't need a fucking "intervention" and I don't need people to miss school to come find me and force-feed me their spinach pizza.

Nor do I need anyone barging into my room while I'm sleeping and demand that I sit up so they can talk to me. WHEN I'M SLEEPING, I DON'T WANT TO TALK TO ANYONE, HOLYSHIT!
Is that not obvious as hell to anyone else?

When I am hiding under my sheets from you, moaning and groaning for you to get the fuck out, and cringing at all this food and drink you're trying to shove down my throat....
is that not a sign that I want you to leave?


HOW IS DOING SOMETHING LIKE THAT CONSIDERED "CARING" ?


Sorry about the ranting... go ahead and interpret this topic in whatever way you fancy, and respond accordingly...

Or tell me what the fuck "caregiving" is......

Have lesbian sex with her and take some pictures for the forum. Make sure the sex is rough.