Clubs on Wikisocion

[Mariano Rajoy]

And still he has got this idiotic, and incredibly stupid idea that he is leading in Socionics. It's more than I can take. I find such lack of consistency in logical reasoning disgusting.

You do realize this sentance is illogical?

[Phaedrus]

You do realize this sentance is illogical?

No. It is not illogical. Are you an idiot? Ezra accepts two logically contradictory statements about himself as both true. That is disgusting.

[Mariano Rajoy]

No. It is not illogical. Are you an idiot? Ezra accepts two logically contradictory statements about himself as both true. That is disgusting.

Then that would suggest he is irrational, and probably does not value Te, wouldn't it?

I think you are getting Se0wned by ezra.

[Mariano Rajoy]

I would suggest that Ezra could possibly fit into the ST club even if his behaviors are 'philosophizing' or 'politicising'. The clubs may not necessarily describe outward behaviors only.

Perhaps an ST writes a book instead of building a bridge, or working on his/her car, or playing ultimate frisbee. That behavior in itself may not be ST, but perhaps the contents of the philosophy within the book is ST.

[Phaedrus]

Then that would suggest he is irrational, and probably does not value Te, wouldn't it?

Yes, it would suggest that if he is an irrational type, then he is deluded -- or, if he is a rational type, that he is unintelligent. I hope it is the former, because then there is still hope for him. Then he could be led out of the fog if he is willing to listen to reason.

[aestrivex]

club descriptions are part of classical socionics, but i'm at a loss for why people from similar clubs are likely to act similarly in any kind of significant way.

it's probably best not to pay too much attention to it.

[Phaedrus]

club descriptions are part of classical socionics, but i'm at a loss for why people from similar clubs are likely to act similarly in any kind of significant way.

it's probably best not to pay too much attention to it.

Since the types in fact do act similarly in the way that is described in the Clubs, wouldn't it be even better to try to find the most accurate and correct explanation for this empirical phenomenon?

[aestrivex]

Since the types in fact do act similarly in the way that is described in the Clubs, wouldn't it be even better to try to find the most accurate and correct explanation for this empirical phenomenon?

would you please just shut up already? nobody cares what you have to say.

this is trivial in the context of real socionics information.

[PotatoSpirit]

club descriptions are part of classical socionics, but i'm at a loss for why people from similar clubs are likely to act similarly in any kind of significant way.

it's probably best not to pay too much attention to it.

I think the point of clubs is to divide the types based on the strength of their functions.
Having functions of the same strength allows them to understand the same things, and this makes it more likely for them to engage in the same activities.
Obviously people of the same club but different quadra will have a different take on those activities, and will enjoy them for different reasons (which could go beyond socionics).

[Expat]

club descriptions are part of classical socionics, but i'm at a loss for why people from similar clubs are likely to act similarly in any kind of significant way.

Assuming that the ego and id functions are strong, you may well be inclined to give preference to activities/interests related to those functions. However, they "act similarly" only in a superficial way, a sort of first impression.

it's probably best not to pay too much attention to it.

Sure.

[Ezra]

I've never stuck anyone on my ignore list and I never thought I would. I never thought I could kill a man and I never thought a man would go on my deathlist. Phaedrus has just gone onto both lists. My patience with him has completely worn out.

Just one thing before I don't comment on what he says for a very long time. He claims that all these methods point towards LIE, but he makes a huge mistake of not even discussing the functions when addressing why I think I am Se leading.

I agree with Steve that the clubs descriptions on the wiki are lacking and in some ways inaccurate. Clubs as a phenomena would probably be better described by analyzing the intertype relationships, which in clubs are ego-id relations (mirror, extinguishment, quasi).

That's actually a very good point.

i'm not really ready to call them totally useless and something that should be obliterated in their current state because i think they could be useful to someone who were completely, absolutely, 100% unfamiliar with socionics or mbti or any such thing. but my idea is that most people who even bother to look at the wikisocion for information probably aren't really that confused as to what the NT stereotype is, the SF stereotype, etc. i agree they're sort of rudimentary, so perhaps it would be useful to add some supplementary stuff. i know the type domains are really probably where this sort of discussion (i.e. "i'm a XX but when i gather with my XX friends we talk about X.") belongs, but i'm really not sure what can be added to fit the exception without just putting a big ass disclaimer at the top that says, "BUT NOT ALL XX CLUB MEMBERS ARE THIS WAY/NOT ALL STS ARE GREASERS." etc, etc, etc.

Yeah, but when you have people like Phaedrus reading them, they become the indubitable Truth, which is harmful to newcomers with a fresh perspective; quite simply, because they don't get a fresh perspective. Instead, they get some dogmatic mutation of a human mind reconstructing their views in his own image, using ridiculous phrases like "you are ABCd".

I would peg myself as inbetween pragmatist and researcher, even if I shun both super nerdy activities and (bleah) sport cars gatherings.

What counts as super nerdy to you?

But ok, they may be generalizing to a point, but then they have to, to a point. I know plenty beta ST's that fit the ST description better than the NT description. Just a thought.

I don't doubt this.

@jriddy, I may be wrong here, but you seem to be assuming Phaedrus doesn't understand , why? From what I can tell he hasn't described on this thread.

I wonder why...

Furthermore the title of this thread is 'clubs on wikisocion', not 'what is ezra's type'.

People always introduce the notion of my type into every thread I produce, provoking others to accuse me of going on about my type. Cheers for the defence though. Cyclops is quite new here, so I guess he hasn't seen how much people actually say what he just said.

The clubs are interesting, and if we are to evaluate them in terms of self-observation, we will only get anywhere productive by putting aside the agenda of re-typing ezra.

Thank you.

[Phaedrus]

I've never stuck anyone on my ignore list and I never thought I would. I never thought I could kill a man and I never thought a man would go on my deathlist. Phaedrus has just gone onto both lists. My patience with him has completely worn out.

Which means that you ignore the truth and insted stick to your deluded self-conception and erroneus understanding of the types. I don't care how you perceive me, but you simply must see the truth. Open your eyes and realize that you cannot hold the position you now have. It is a logically impossible position to uphold. Two contradictory statements can't both be true, and and an SLE can NEVER EVER be an ENTJ.

He claims that all these methods point towards LIE, but he makes a huge mistake of not even discussing the functions when addressing why I think I am Se leading.

And there is very simple explanation for that: You have misunderstood how the functions relate to your own type. Since all the empirical evidence clearly suggest that you are a LIE, then you MUST have misunderstood something about the functions if you believe that you are Se leading, because you cannot both be Se leading and accept those test results as accurate. You are necessarily deluded one way or the other.

If you prefer to say that you cannot answer tests correctly, I don't mind that, it's your choice. It would solve the problem -- but only if you accept that you are not an ENTJ, that you have to identify with SCUEN or SLUEN in Global 5, that you necessarily belong to the club of Pragmatists in Socionics, and that you must identify with being a Sensory and Irrational type, which means that you must identify with those dimensions in the four dichotomies. If you do that, I am prepared to accept you as an SLE.