Life Before Death: Photo Essay

[UDP]

My response to the bulk of this: You are correct in that I have no way of knowing whether or not this girl is ready to move on or not, but I wasn't the one who called her behavior "bullshit" before knowing anything about her relationship to her boyfriend.

Fair enough. The BS remark was over the top I suppose, it was my reaction to SLs last post, rather than the situation, but still out of place I guess.

UDP, not all things work for everybody, so quit assuming that "being strong and pushing forward" is the way to go. When a close friend of mine committed suicide, I got together with other friends who knew and loved her almost every day and for months all we ever talked about was her, her life, and the circumstances of her death. To outsiders, we must have seemed obsessed, but it's what we all needed at the time and today we all agree that it helped us pull through. And this girl on myspace might need this, too.

I am, to be very honest, thoroughly put out with your "be strong or perish" bullshit.

Why? And I think that is an unfair statement on your part. I am pushing for the be strong stuff because it has been 6 months. It is time. I have sought help from people myself, I do not stand alone in life. So your remarks about asceticism are unwarranted. I just spent the last 2-3 months in heavy deliberation about spiritual and relationship and other matters myself, and I did not do that on my own. I am very thankful for those friends that were there to help me.

Good for you if you can be an ascetic and courageous hero in all walks of life. Others can't be that or, guess what, don't want to be that. When I mourned my friend, I hard a hard time letting go and it was good that I realized that and took my time. There is no one answer to how people should deal with trauma, so quit assuming you have all the answers.

Interesting, I've run into this before. Why do you assume I am assuming I have all the answers to everything? I do not.

I guess your reaction is that way because I am trying to figure out how to get out of, past the situation, rather than focusing on how bad her situation is. Look - the way I see it, there are tons of people, like yourself, who will readily say "there there there" - and that's great. Perhaps this is biased from my own experience, but, I felt/see/saw a lack of "look, its just time to move on" in my own life. Maybe that is because, right now, I am at a point where I've analyzed a great deal in my life, I don't know.

It seems like whenever something bad happens, there is just the great response of sympathy. That's good, that is supportive, and it is probably the right thing to do. But there has to be some sort of balance. You have to move on, at some point.

If I was this girl's friend, and it was 6 months of this stuff, I'd think it would be my duty as a friend who was looking out for her well being to be an advocation for getting on with your life. Particularly because, as here on the forum, I would expect most of the response to be "that's so sad", etc. The last thing I will say is that I am not suggesting this because she is weak and pathetic, but because moving on is an essential part of her being healthy, and the health of everyone around her. If you are stuck in the past, you can be dead to the present.

[Kim]

Why? And I think that is an unfair statement on your part. I am pushing for the be strong stuff because it has been 6 months. It is time.

It is time in YOUR frame of reference, but you know nothing about hers. Perhaps the postings are helping her with life and are not even holding her back. And to be honest, if I lost my boyfriend, I doubt I would be ready to move on after six months. We are talking about someone's closest companion here. It takes people years to move on. And what does "moving on" mean anyway? The mourning process is called process for a reason. It is not stagnation, but learning to cope with the absence of someone and the duration of this learning process depends on too many things for anyone to judge how long is too long.

I have sought help from people myself, I do not stand alone in life. So your remarks about asceticism are unwarranted. I just spent the last 2-3 months in heavy deliberation about spiritual and relationship and other matters myself, and I did not do that on my own. I am very thankful for those friends that were there to help me.

Sure, but what's your point? You give advice around here and much of your advice wouldn't help me at all, and sometimes I find it even potentially counter-productive. When you give advice, it sounds like "this is what you have to do and that's that." Any rhetoric containing "strong vs. weak" is potentially damaging.

Interesting, I've run into this before. Why do you assume I am assuming I have all the answers to everything? I do not.

I guess your reaction is that way because I am trying to figure out how to get out of, past the situation, rather than focusing on how bad her situation is. Look - the way I see it, there are tons of people, like yourself, who will readily say "there there there" - and that's great. Perhaps this is biased from my own experience, but, I felt/see/saw a lack of "look, its just time to move on" in my own life. Maybe that is because, right now, I am at a point where I've analyzed a great deal in my life, I don't know.

What you don't understand that focusing on the trauma in the moment is part of the process that will get you past the pain (or at least to a point where the pain is bearable). What you are saying is that you want the person to get the advice that you needed and never got, but you fail to see that this advice might not be what she needs. And you go as far as to accuse her of "finding an excuse to get stuck." That's arrogant and insensitive because you don't know anything about her.

It seems like whenever something bad happens, there is just the great response of sympathy. That's good, that is supportive, and it is probably the right thing to do. But there has to be some sort of balance. You have to move on, at some point.

Yes, but the point varies from person to person and greatly depends on circumstance. Who are you to say "move on" to someone you don't even know? Someone who has lost her boyfriend? That is HUGE and 6 months is not a long time.

If I was this girl's friend, and it was 6 months of this stuff, I'd think it would be my duty as a friend who was looking out for her well being to be an advocation for getting on with your life. Particularly because, as here on the forum, I would expect most of the response to be "that's so sad", etc. The last thing I will say is that I am not suggesting this because she is weak and pathetic, but because moving on is an essential part of her healthy, and the health of everyone around her. If you are stuck in the past, you can be dead to the present.

And that is my problem: it is your "duty"? You don't even know if she WANTS to move on. She might need this time! Mourning does not mean you want empathy all the time, but it means that you need to redefine your life. It takes time. If I were her, I would tell you to stop giving advice about a state of mind that you clearly don't understand.

Health is different for different people. What makes you healthy can make me sick. That's what I am trying to make you understand.

[UDP]

It is time in YOUR frame of reference, but you know nothing about hers. Perhaps the postings are helping her with life and are not even holding her back. And to be honest, if I lost my boyfriend, I doubt I would be ready to move on after six months. We are talking about someone's closest companion here. It takes people years to move on. And what does "moving on" mean anyway? The mourning process is called process for a reason. It is not stagnation, but learning to cope with the absence of someone and the duration of this learning process depends on too many things for anyone to judge how long is too long.



Sure, but what's your point? You give advice around here and much of your advice wouldn't help me at all, and sometimes I find it even potentially counter-productive. When you give advice, it sounds like "this is what you have to do and that's that." Any rhetoric containing "strong vs. weak" is potentially damaging.

Interesting, I've run into this before. Why do you assume I am assuming I have all the answers to everything? I do not.



What you don't understand that focusing on the trauma in the moment is part of the process that will get you past the pain (or at least to a point where the pain is bearable). What you are saying is that you want the person to get the advice that you needed and never got, but you fail to see that this advice might not be what she needs. And you go as far as to accuse her of "finding an excuse to get stuck." That's arrogant and insensitive because you don't know anything about her.

I think you're over reacting a little bit, heh.

No, I don't want her to get the advice I never got, I went into detail about that to provide a possible explanation for why I might see things that way.

As for you're remark about me being insensitive because I don't know anything about her, you must not have read any of my posts to baby. A lot of what you are saying in your last post I already addressed and acknowledged.

Yes, but the point varies from person to person and greatly depends on circumstance. Who are you to say "move on" to someone you don't even know? Someone who has lost her boyfriend? That is HUGE and 6 months is not a long time.

See above.

And that is my problem: it is your "duty"? You don't even know if she WANTS to move on.

You didn't read what I wrote, did you? You seem to just be ethically provoked here. I said "If I was this girls friend", not "I am this girls friend and I know her situation and what is best for her".

See the * below.

She might need this time!

You have to accept that you don't know any better than I do. You're not her friend. You don't know the situation. As I said earlier, none of us know what the girl needs right now. See the * below.

Mourning does not mean you want empathy all the time, but it means that you need to redefine your life. It takes time. If I were her, I would tell you to stop giving advice about a state of mind that you clearly don't understand.

You should take your own advice and stop pretending like you're this girls best friend. I agree with what you say, that it takes time to redefine your life. And you have no understanding of how much I know about the state of mind we're talking to. If you disagree with me that's fine, but you do not know my level of understanding of the matter.

Health is different for different people. What makes you healthy can make me sick. That's what I am trying to make you understand.

Perhaps you should consider that I already understand that, and made my comments knowing what you are trying to say, instead of just writing me off as arrogant and insensitive - maybe you'd then actually have to interpret and digest my words, rather than "reacting" to the tone of my posts.




*

Are you reacting towards my "tone", or towards what I said?
If you want to encourage the girl to continue posting on the site for another 6 months, great.

I'm sorry if my response triggered memories of a loss you are dealing with. Yes, it was not PC or sensitive. It was just a bit boring seeing everyone say how bad it is, how sad it is, and so on. There are other perspectives on matters, and I expressed one of them. It is not necessarily my own - primarily because, as I was writing in my response to baby, I don't know the girl - and neither do any of us - so my real take on the matter is something that I cannot construct.

If you want to argue with me because your matter of concern is different than my own, so be it. I think you are failing to see the reason I am emphasizing the perspective I presented in this thread - primarily because it is underrepresented. But whatever. You of course are free to make up your own mind.

[Kim]

Now I am left with what Baby said, which is that I might not know her any better than you, but I didn't post this:

It is just a way of pretending to have a legitimate excuse for yourself to not move on with your life. "Oh, she's really taking it hard". More like "oh, her life is stagnated for the last 6 months. She better get her ass in gear otherwise that event is going to define the rest of her existence"

and lots of other idiotic stuff. As long as you feel entitled to judge someone in mourning like you did, you are insensitive and clueless. Stop trying to rationalize that.

[UDP]

Fair enough. It was not my objective to "rationalize" my level of sensitivity about the matter.

My opinion remains that going to a site for 6 months after someone is dead is generally unhealthy.

[jessica129]

What's the point in visiting his myspace after he's long been dead? It's not like he'll be updating it anytime soon. aha.

[cracka]

Imagine it happened tho. SSSSSppoooooooooooooooooooooooooookkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk iiiieeeeeeeeeeeee

haha, that's what I was thinking. Wait til he posts on her myspace again... lol.

*new messages* from "insert dead person here" omg that would be some craaaaaaaaaazy shit...