Type and Hidden Agenda aka Activating 6th Function

[XoX]

I think I was too extreme. This is valid for things I don't like doing as: school, work, etc however it isn't valid for sports, for example.

So you killed my thread by taking that back, eh

[FDG]

I think I was too extreme. This is valid for things I don't like doing as: school, work, etc however it isn't valid for sports, for example.

So you killed my thread by taking that back, eh

What's this pathetic attempt at guilt tripping? You could have better not mentioned it so that I couldn't have taken it back. Besides, I didn't take it back completely.

[Ms. Kensington]

i dont think the HA fuels the world, lol. However I was just thinking about this yesterday how i seem to be my HA's bitch. It does direct a lot of my behavior, but i'd definitely say that I am more concerned with my ego block.

[UDP]

it's not just "HA", remember - it's HA as per leading the entire psychological type's distribution of functions.

If you were to say to me, what really is more a factor - HA or Leading Function? The real answer would be neither. Ti is directly related to HA, and to Si. If I feel comfortable, it is because I am not avoiding Ti. If I am doing things in a good Ti way, then Si / HA is much more easily justified. Using my secondary function to assist leading, rather than trying to make the secondary function replace the leading in order, also affects things. The perspective of the system is relevant.

[XoX]

I think I was too extreme. This is valid for things I don't like doing as: school, work, etc however it isn't valid for sports, for example.

So you killed my thread by taking that back, eh

What's this pathetic attempt at guilt tripping? You could have better not mentioned it so that I couldn't have taken it back. Besides, I didn't take it back completely.

It was a sort of joke And an attempt to bump this thread back to spotlight as it was slowly dying.

[Slacker]

Not everything. I like to learn about new things and that's a big part of my life, but the biggest thing is to have fun and keep from getting bored. Although those things are greatly related.

It occurs to me that this isn't a helpful answer. Sorry. You looked like you wanted more people to answer your question so I figured I'd try.

[Dioklecian]

In my case HA is more of a seconf thought. I plan everything and then I factor in the hidden agenda.

I don't start with the hidden agenda.

But I not sure what Fi would look like as a hiden agenda.

[UDP]

So, the 6th function is supposed to be...
[web:4fa7c79ea3]http://www.socionics.us/theory/model.shtml[/web:4fa7c79ea3]

6
Mobilizing function

weak
vital
producing

[quote="This site"]Your estimative function is poorly aware and does not take criticism well. However, praise to this function is the best kind, it will raise your mood greatly. You appriciate help from others in this function.]

I am interested in learning more about it. At default, is this function something you are supposedly feeling weak in and not comfortable with? I am not sure what the default setting is.

Currently, I feel very comfortable with , particularly when I combine it with my creative function. But I am not sure if that is a natural feeling for every type, or if people only feel that way in certain situations, and if so, what they are.


More to come.

[UDP]

Why is it referred to as the "mobilizing" function?

[ThePeddler]

I think it's called mobilizing function because It's use is suppose to energize you.

The sixth function is where one’s instinctive reactions to signals coming from the fifth function form. This is the area where a person has the least conscious freedom. One is very poorly aware of the state of one’s sixth function. Criticism is unpleasant and arouses responses like “either help me or keep your mouth shut.” An individual tries to liquidate any negative influences that make it harder for the sixth function to operate. On the other hand, praise of one’s sixth function is the best compliment possible. Any help and concern in this area a person is openly grateful for and tries to reciprocate. Any malfunctions or maladjustments of the sixth function seriously impair the psyche’s operation.

Vital functions, in theory, aren't conscious. It doesn't make a difference because as an unconcious function, you wouldn't be aware of it. At least, that's what I think it means...

[UDP]

Is the hidden agenda "what you really do things for" ?

For an LII, the example would be:
"Yes, logic is important, and seeing the possibilities of things are a big part of our life. But ultimately, it is a sense of peace ( ) that we are working towards."

Is that accurate? What would it be like for other types, or for your type (anyone can answer)

[Socionics Is A Cult]

If you had your dual, areas related to your 6th function are more efficiently fulfilled by your dual - you both more efficiently carry out your respective Ego block functions with your partner's help, and you also use your Ego functions on their behalf.

I think a INTj would want to make a ESFj's Ego block run more efficently, using their supported by , and a ESFj would wish to provide a INTj the suitable environment + atmosphere so the INTj can also run productively.

So, you have a symbiotic relationship with your SuperId functions + dual - your primary goals is to use effectively, the secondary effect of this is that works more effectively, which helps you - so it is an indirect goal, not a main one IMO - if your is failing, it may because you don't have enough support, forcing you to focus on aspects in order to get better - which is why it's a hidden agenda - you primarily focus on but have a symbiotic relationship + dependence on .

For a INTj to focus on may parodoxically mean weakening - they have an inverse relationship, I think, which is why a dual is of benefit. They are good at , focussing on without careful consideration of the consequences would probably leave them ineffective - but to have careful consideration of things you need to use your Ego functions, which necessarily means neglecting your function - if you see the circularity here .

[reyn_til_runa]

there's a distinct desire i get at times, yet seldom express.

(in fact, i never realized exactly what it was until five minutes ago, and it figures that the realization came to me while pouring a bowl of cereal and batting around the idea of brushing my teeth before or after the milk instead of while consciously trying to figure it out (there's something disturbing about the feeling of milk then toothpaste, but toothpaste then milk seems not much better).

i think it's the desire to feel welcomed, implicitly. getting some understated, yet clear, signal that my presence is welcomed/desired. i rarely listen to dar williams but occasionally choose it to accompany nostalgia (as i associate some of the songs with considerable events of my life). one of the songs seems to be about a girl going to new place and encountering a family that takes her in at just the time she needed to feel cared for (the song seems to suggest some recent history of being alone or hurt). anyway, there is something appealing about being with people who seem almost unaware of your presence (as in they don't let you stand in the way of their daily affairs), yet who occasionally affirm it when affirmation may be subconsciously desired, but not expressed.

i now wonder if this is the type of desire meant by ones hidden agenda.

[ScarlettLux]

Wow, that would describe my ex-bf pretty damn well. I have noticed this desire in him, but never could put into words like you have. Especially that last bit about how you want others to be generally "unaware" of your presence, yet still make you feel welcome at times when you need/want it? That's exactly it for him - he has this tendency to not really want to be "out there" if you know what I mean, but I can tell he is beyond appreciative when a subtle smile, warmth is directed towards him to make him feel at ease. Not anything flashy though, no allowed! Haha.. I still think he could be ISTp instead of INTp though. Needless to say, our relationship was heavily inconsistent.

[Ms. Kensington]

Hi, I have only just recently realized that my dual seeking function, Fe, is indeed a very weak function. Previously I thought it was rather strong but I see that I am only very accepting of Fe.. not a master of it.

But.. I feel as if I have greater control and mastery of my HA. Your HA is supposed to be weak though. What is your experience with the HA, and what do you think about the fact that it's supposed to be weak? What are some examples of you using your HA and someone strong in that function letting you know that your use was less than par?

[BLauritson]

Hmm.. I think one way I've sometimes thought of my Fi being strong is that I would feel confident in evaluating my relationships with people.. but that confidence would be unstable and temporary. Especially if I feel like someone's turned against me (even if it's only while I'm having a short bout of depression which alters my perception of these things) I might sometimes go through a short phase of "realising" that I have no idea who my friends are and things like that. Such lapses in confidence are temporary though. I think (especially nowadays), I'm usually more confident in my relationships with people and things like that.. but still, even with some of my closer friends I might go through periods of doubt.. gah, I don't even know if this really is Fi HA-related or not. If it is, I think that's the best example I can give of how I experience my HA. If it isn't.. fuck knows.

[marooned]

It was occurring to me that the HA isn't really a stagnant thing when you look at it in terms of a quest after something.

For instance, the SLI/ILI hidden agenda: to love.

Let's say that that the SLI/ILI finds someone who they fall in love with and this opens up everything for them and now they feel like they know what love is and understand it at last. They finally can express it and have someone to love.

How does this change the SLI/ILI 's "relationship" with their function?

And then later what if whatever ideals they had about love don't pan out, and they find that feelings are always changing... That maybe love was only an idea in their mind... that for a while they thought they had found it, but now they don't know anymore. It drifted away and people can fall out of love.

Then how would this affect the SLI/ILI 's relationship with their ?

I'm just using this as an example...

But is it possible to fulfill the HA? If so, what changes. Of course that which can be fulfilled can be lost again. Then what changes?

Hypothetically their type doesn't change, but they're not the same anymore... they've learned something on a deep level that they didn't truly know before.


For Reference, the HAs:

ENTp, ESTp - to be loved
INTj, INFj - to be healthy
ESFj, ESTj - to be perfect
ISFp, INFp - to understand
ENFj, ENTj - to be wealthy
ISTj, ISFj - to believe
ESFp, ENFp - to know
INTp, ISTp - to love

[marooned]

Adding on: it's like what happens if what you truly wanted, what you sought, was to love another person and to know what that means... And then you do that. But then it ends. You've done what you sought out to do - you've loved someone, and now you understand what you didn't understand before. So what then? Your HA is still the same. Do you go on having lost faith in love for a while and then repeat it all over again? Do you find other ways to understand love trying to reconcile it? Other ways to explore the broader concept of love? How does what you're doing regarding love differ from someone with a different HA?

[Kristiina]

but...but... I want to be perfect! I want to be the best at everything and show 'em what I'm really made of ("'em" is everyone everywhere). This is how I see my hidden agenda! Se is about the hierarchy or "stronger wins". Well, my HA is telling me that I really want to be winner! AT EVERYTHING.

I can never really fulfill my HA. There is always something else that I'm not perfect at. And when I do prove myself in one field, I move on (because ENFjs need constant improvement) and I end up doing something that I'm not good at and I start improving myself and then I'll be the best that I can be... I can't really be "perfect" at things because I am human and I make mistakes. At every field there are also extremely talented proffesionals who do it much better. e.g. I may have learned how to draw well enough to be proud of it, but I'll never come close to anyone who's finished art school.

[Joy]

I wrote this a while back:

Here are a few suggestions, some of them unchanged and some are too wordy at present. I'll revise the list as better suggestions come along.

ExTp: to be popular (to have a positive social standing? to be praised/complimated?)
IxFp: to understand (to be intellectual?)
ESxj: to be perfect or to not make mistakes/overlook anything (to be thorough? to be competent? to be prepared?)
INxj: to be physically comfortable/well (to be stable?)
ENxj: to have the power (wealth/status) to ensure that you'll always have everything you want/need (to be strong? to be unconstrained?)
ISxj: to be certain
ExFp: to be knowledgeable
IxTp: to have close relationships

Perhaps:

Fe: to be well received/popular/thought of
Ti: to understand (to be intellectual?)
Ne: to be creative?
Si: to be physically comfortable/well/stable
Se: to be free/independent
Ni: to be certain
Te: to be knowledgeable
Fi: to be in close relationships

Romantic or otherwise.

I think that having your hidden agenda "fulfilled" is an ongoing thing with different levels of growth and wellness, not a "you either have it or you don't" thing.

Also, having your hidden agenda "fulfilled" means that there's someone there who helps you be strong in it (as opposed to just giving it to you/doing it for you, as with the dual seeking function).

[Elro]

Also, having your hidden agenda "fulfilled" means that there's someone there who helps you be strong in it (as opposed to just giving it to you/doing it for you, as with the dual seeking function).

...which means one can focus more on one's stronger functions, getting better at what one does best, which means everyone wins.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dMVl_viJlSc

[Charismatik]

I always heard of the HA not only as a 'goal' of sorts, but as something that the type DOES want but struggles with significantly. Hence the 'I can never fulfill my HA' attitude expressed by Kristiina.

As an ISFp, mind would be 'to understand'. And understanding is something I do constantly crave but always feel particularly insecure about. Even if I have all the details, I keep feeling like I'm missing something, or wondering if there's something more that everyone else knows but me.

After familiarizing myself with socionics, I realized that I'm that person who says, 'Wait, what did he just say? What does that mean?' a little more often than I'd like to be.

[strrrng]

ok, let's see....I am INFp...Ti agenda does not mean I am seeking "to understand". any person with half a brain is trying to understand things. ppl really need to stop overlooking what the agenda is and how it interacts with your main functions. Essentially, I am trying to gain a static field picture of reality that constantly feels elusive, due to my dynamic preference. your "hidden agenda", whatever you want to call it, is like the stable ground you seek to truly be fulfilled. and enough with the bullshit and about needing someone else to provide it for you. yes, this can happen, but people are fully capable of achieving it through their life experience.

[Steve]

ok, let's see....I am INFp...Ti agenda does not mean I am seeking "to understand". any person with half a brain is trying to understand things. ppl really need to stop overlooking what the agenda is and how it interacts with your main functions. Essentially, I am trying to gain a static field picture of reality that constantly feels elusive, due to my dynamic preference. your "hidden agenda", whatever you want to call it, is like the stable ground you seek to truly be fulfilled. and enough with the bullshit and about needing someone else to provide it for you. yes, this can happen, but people are fully capable of achieving it through their life experience.

+1000

[marooned]

Just in case...

It was occurring to me that the HA isn't really a stagnant thing when you look at it in terms of a quest after something.

This means I'm looking at it in terms of a quest after something, not that I necessarily think it is a quest after something.

I'm looking at it from this point of view, to see how it looks.

I wasn't trying to find "the correct way" to look at it.

(sorry for pointing this out if it didn't need to be... I simply couldn't tell)

[Mediator Kam]

In my opinion, the HA is an ongoing process that you yourself provide for your own security/wellbeing. I always have seen the HA as similar to the id block, but you don't have as much control over it as you'd like and you enjoy it more.

For example: the id is practiced just like the HA, but you get little to no joy from using it.

However, my HA is Ti. I want to understand, I want to gain and apply knowledge. I can sit on wikipedia and just read about ghosts, the war of 1812, or the history of the bullet for hours, because it fascinates me that we know about all these things, but we have no deep knowledge of it. The desire to know more drives me. I'm always practicing "knowledge gaining."

[Mediator Kam]

then what's the point of duality?

I don't think there necessarily is a point of duality. Augusta didn't claim that her theory was important because it had duals, but because it explained a lot of human behavior, etc. Duality is just icing on the cake, not the main event.

[Rubicon]

I don't think there necessarily is a point of duality. Augusta didn't claim that her theory was important because it had duals, but because it explained a lot of human behavior, etc. Duality is just icing on the cake, not the main event.

Yeah, I agree. I think we can tend to think of duality as the ultimate experience - that our lives will suddenly gain meaning when we're with our dual. I think that's ridiculous. I think sharing a life with your non-dual just requires a little more effort and I'm not really convinced that that isn't a better thing for our characters to be honest.

[Rubicon]

I also want to add that given the right circumstances, being with your dual can be the most gratifying experience you can ever imagine... as you essentially have an intimate understanding of how the other thinks and works. Every action and utterance is like magic. You really act like the other's other half. But then again, I'm a bit of a romantic.

Are you speaking from experience?

[FDG]

Are you speaking from experience?

I do, and I'd generally agree with him, though of course not "every" experience - the most mundane things will still remain mundane. Duality won't really make washing dishes any better, but surely makes having a walk together a lot better.

[Rubicon]

I do, and I'd generally agree with him, though of course not "every" experience - the most mundane things will still remain mundane. Duality won't really make washing dishes any better, but surely makes having a walk together a lot better.

I don't see why it wouldn't. :-) I like washing dishes with someone if we're having a good chat or joking around or something. :-P

[Rubicon]

On topic - I think that you can 'fulfill' your HA to the extent that the world would think of you as having achieved your goals, but I don't think it's possible for you to ever feel like you've arrived so to speak. I think that's it's always going to be an area that you feel sensitive about. Take my mother, for example. She's LII, and she's got to be the healthiest person I've met - like incredibly healthy. She's meticulous about what she eats and exercising and everything, and yet it's like it's never good enough for her. She can never just relax and be moderate about all the health stuff. She's always keeping me up to date with new health fads and things, and it's all interesting - but at the same time I often think that most of it is just common sense and listening to what your body's telling you. That was before I understood the whole HA thing. I used to wonder why she'd get annoyed with people who would suggest that she was lucky to be in such good shape. Now I understand that it's something she constantly struggles with.

[FDG]

I don't see why it wouldn't. :-) I like washing dishes with someone if we're having a good chat or joking around or something. :-P

Weeel I was using washing dishes in a figurative way to mean "something terribly boring"

[force my hand]

I always heard of the HA not only as a 'goal' of sorts, but as something that the type DOES want but struggles with significantly. Hence the 'I can never fulfill my HA' attitude expressed by Kristiina.

This makes sense to me.

[Creepy-]

I wonder about Ganin's description:

Every person has a hidden agenda. This agenda often governs one's intentions and behaviour. People are often unaware of its origin, but can always feel its significance. Some people are more affected by it than other people. Every type requires an optimal condition in which it can function properly. If such condition does not exist, a person will normally attempt to create it. However, due to the nature of the hidden agenda, if and when the optimal condition is reached, the person will occasionally put themselves in a situation where the stability of this condition is threatened.

What are your thoughts regarding this description, particularly the bolded part and even more particularly the italicized part? As in, how have you seen this manifest in real life, either in yourself or in others, and what do you make of it?

[Expat]

I think Ganin over-emphasizes the significance of the hidden agenda. But, still.

Not sure what the description means. I would say that the hidden agenda is something that you're never really confident you're good at. It's like a sort of unreachable goal that you can't stop yourself from trying to reach. It's something you keep trying to persuade yourself, and others, that you're good at.

I would add that when you do think you have fulfilled your hidden agenda, you become over-cocky both of it and of your dual-seeking function, behaving bizarrely and like a true asshole.

[Nexus]

I would add that when you do think you have fulfilled your hidden agenda, you become over-cocky both of it and of your dual-seeking function, behaving bizarrely and like a true asshole.

That's probably why Ganin thinks I am both ILI and an asshole.

[Ezra]

I think Ganin's picture of the hidden agenda is very general. There's nothing very specific about it, and it's as if he's trying to inject some spiritual significance into it. I don't really like the description. I can't agree with it, because it's not concrete enough.

[Creepy-]

Thanks for the responses

I think Ganin over-emphasizes the significance of the hidden agenda. But, still.

Not sure what the description means. I would say that the hidden agenda is something that you're never really confident you're good at. It's like a sort of unreachable goal that you can't stop yourself from trying to reach. It's something you keep trying to persuade yourself, and others, that you're good at.

I would add that when you do think you have fulfilled your hidden agenda, you become over-cocky both of it and of your dual-seeking function, behaving bizarrely and like a true asshole.

I really like the way you explain it; that makes sense to me.

I think Ganin's picture of the hidden agenda is very general. There's nothing very specific about it, and it's as if he's trying to inject some spiritual significance into it. I don't really like the description. I can't agree with it, because it's not concrete enough.

I agree with you that it is not concrete enough; that’s why I posted here. Do you have any thoughts on it? [I'm sure you do....]



I expect that it's best learned about by observation of yourself and others, but stories/anecdotes would be appreciated, as would just outright criticisms of Ganin’s description or ammendments to it... whatever works for you. Other thoughts?

[Wynch]

I find that the hidden agenda is kind of like a place that you wish to be adept and where you have the ability to toy around with it, but when you attempt to channel any kind of energy in that direction you are either using it way too much, in a very over-the-top fashion that's beyond your control, or you're not using it at all.

For instance, my experience of Fe HA. I want to be well-liked by people and I want them to think that I'm expressive and caring and charming, etc. When I'm paying attention to using Fe, I'm expressive and caring and charming, etc, but it's usually out of control. Like sometimes I'll do things that people just find aggravating because I'm on a bit of an Fe trip.

But when I'm not paying attention to it I no longer care what kind of face I'm projecting for people. I get my super cereal face on and I detach. Additionally, when I'm in a group of people who appear extremely adept at Fe functionality then I withdraw because I feel like someone else is better than me and I don't really have anything to do. I pretty much disengage because I don't feel useful and I feel like I'm inadequate. If someone then draws me into their conversation or what have you, then I'll start to open up again and start tra-la-laing through conversation with them.