Maggie Gyllenhaal

[Korpsy Knievel]

no it isn't. it's just an in-group circle jerk. "we all know better than maritsa tee hee"

Are we all being fooled?

[Esaman]

At least no one proposed T>F this year. So i will ignore that.
That leaves Fi or Fe in ego. It is depressing that people cant recognize Fe when it is staring them in the face. Maybe for some it is confused and masked by "American smile" culture. Well, her defining and distinguishing characteristic and the reason she is judged lovely by many is that those radiant expressions are not at all contrived. Those strong, unabashed emotions and expressions are so central part of her that it is more correct to say that she is being them than she is feeling and doing them. That already points to Fe leading over creative.

+One does not get more extraverted than this:

The world is in front of her eyes not behind them.

+ She plays driven women a lot. Especially her role in "Hysteria" was a Character - driven, decisive idealist with disregard to authority.(Enthusiast really) She rocked that role and then said it felt natural: (2m22s)



This new movie looks super corny, but the interesting thing is that once again she got the idealistic social enthusiast and go getter role. SEI would be low on spunk for such roles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvYPxZpstkE

According to wiki Maggie is politically active as a democrat IRL, so not surprisingly it is not all acting out of character.

Do I need to defend Si>Ni?

[mu4]

At least no one proposed T>F this year. So i will ignore that.
That leaves Fi or Fe in ego. It is depressing that people cant recognize Fe when it is staring them in the face. Maybe for some it is confused and masked by "American smile" culture. Well, her defining and distinguishing characteristic and the reason she is judged lovely by many is that those radiant expressions are not at all contrived. Those strong, unabashed emotions and expressions are so central part of her that it is more correct to say that she is being them than she is feeling and doing them. That already points to Fe leading over creative.

I want you to watch these two video and understand that real emotional expression is more subtle and nuanced. You keep talking about radiant expressions and what not, but that's not anything meaningful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Plyzt6cjeCY

Or this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbzcPjGs9Ts

Or this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2EIra4SYoE

I want you to watch the eyebrows in Maggie's interview, Maggie is not really articulating that part of her face. It barely shows any changes, this indicates she is not actually not every engaged in the conversation. She even says she says whatever she wants. (This is a chore for her, and she's probably going thru a script which she has practiced before hand) What she is good at is expressing a sort of baseline level of whatever.
Also the lack of crows nesting around her eyes in a lot of her expressions, a majority of those "radiant" expressions are probably fake.

She's also imo looking past her interviewer rather then looking at the interviewer like the two videos I posted.

Anyways, read Ekman's analysis of eyebrows, there are other individuals who have done such detailed studies.

http://www.paulekman.com/wp-content/...al-Signals.pdf

Also, ESE are more likely to be traditionalist and a bit stodgy. This is in most of the descriptions.

For ego's emotion is a tool, it can be real, fake, nuanced, subtle, contrived, it's just the tool of choice.

[717495]

Alpha SF 101

c'mon people...

[Sol]

ISFJ

[Gilly]

no it isn't. it's just an in-group circle jerk. "we all know better than maritsa tee hee"

Lol dude she's like the circus that never leaves town

[Esaman]

For ego's emotion is a tool, it can be real, fake, nuanced, subtle, contrived, it's just the tool of choice.

Your personal issues and morbid philosophy are leaking. Elements in ego block are preferred and relied upon "tools" first and foremost for comprehension and evaluation of reality. Truth and usefulness of the product of the elements is obviously important for the person himself. Then that product is shared. That is the healthy order of things. Don't generalize it to all people if you use your judging/rational element mostly for rationalizations and manipulating people.

Base function being almost always and involuntarily on and doing it's thing it would be most unnatural for Fe leading to fake emotions.

I want you to watch the eyebrows in Maggie's interview, Maggie is not really articulating that part of her face. It barely shows any changes, this indicates she is not actually not every engaged in the conversation. She even says she says whatever she wants. (This is a chore for her, and she's probably going thru a script which she has practiced before hand) What she is good at is expressing a sort of baseline level of whatever.
Also the lack of crows nesting around her eyes in a lot of her expressions, a majority of those "radiant" expressions are probably fake.

Eyebrow movements are mostly for short mimics to express silent opinion(not really emotion) on what is said. She is the one talking, all the questions where cut out. So your claim of her not being engaged is totally bogus. Would be meaningless even if true, really.
"saying whatever she wants" was evidently a response to question about whether she is bother by intrusive or otherwise unwelcome questions. Her saying that she is not at all bothered by such goes well with strong but disregarded Se.
Dunno where were you looking at. There are plenty of eye expressions and crow's feets (select better resolution?).
""having a script and bothering to fake exuberant emotions for some mundane interview"" Yeah, she is a most talented psychopath., or .... the social pathology is in the eye (and head) of the particular beholder.
That "baseline" is called "good mood and atmosphere" something ESE often choose to promote.

I want you to watch these two video and understand that real emotional expression is more subtle and nuanced. You keep talking about radiant expressions and what not, but that's not anything meaningful.

What I pointed to by "radiant" is emotion being offered kinda on it is own right. Subtle? No at all necessary. Nuanced? Sure.
The Asian girl is uncharacteristically coy for Fe leading. Doubt that cultural factor would be enough account for that.
Eddie Murphy and Geri Halliwell are kewl by me without looking too much in to it. Not anyhow more nuanced though.

Also, ESE are more likely to be traditionalist and a bit stodgy. This is in most of the descriptions.

Actually I think you would be hard pressed to provide those quotes, but I know what you are talking about. Extraverted ethic and sensor is not going to get anywhere from default ideas of the society he/she is integral part of unless the super id block is properly activated.

[Esaman]

could be creative sub of isfj ?

That is the alternative, but no, I don't believe so, for reasons stated before your post.

maybe ?

Nah, can be bothered since no one thinks of Ni.

[mu4]

Your personal issues and morbid philosophy are leaking. Elements in ego block are preferred and relied upon "tools" first and foremost for comprehension and evaluation of reality. Truth and usefulness of the product of the elements is obviously important for the person himself. Then that product is shared. That is the healthy order of things. Don't generalize it to all people if you use your judging/rational element mostly for rationalizations and manipulating people.

Base function being almost always and involuntarily on and doing it's thing it would be most unnatural for Fe leading to fake emotions.

Why you gotta get so personal and derisive. What did I do to you? Whatever, could have been a decent conversation.

I'm just point out what I see, and referencing it to knowledge that I have attained. Go study some microexpressions or something, or just some psychology. And provide something constructive.

http://socionics.org/type/Default.aspx?type=ESFJ&load=type_aush.html

4. Conservative. Not seeking and does not like the new solutions, prefers the old, proven way. Complex issues can be made only to be alone. People he pays too much attention, they distract him. When working on the people making a lot of unnecessary movements, as if to hide what he actually does. Thus it includes the work of his co-player (Robespierre), which does not tolerate any command. He likes to believe he does not like to argue. Not aggressive, but defended very active. Do not give yourself to offend even the boss.

Respect traditions, hospitable man loves food and a fun, everyone tries to cheer up. Helpful and caring, but often outraged violation of ethical conduct. Tries to instill good manners close. Can stand up for themselves and for others. Friendly, but the emotional and excitable, sometimes overly picky and persistent in the details. Touchy, but othodchiv and nezlopamyaten. Esthete, tastefully dressed, able to cook.

I will say they can become more open and tolerant as they grow older, but they don't always start off that way.

[Gilly]

Your personal issues and morbid philosophy are leaking. Elements in ego block are preferred and relied upon "tools" first and foremost for comprehension and evaluation of reality. Truth and usefulness of the product of the elements is obviously important for the person himself. Then that product is shared. That is the healthy order of things. Don't generalize it to all people if you use your judging/rational element mostly for rationalizations and manipulating people.

Base function being almost always and involuntarily on and doing it's thing it would be most unnatural for Fe leading to fake emotions.

Sorry buddy but you are dead wrong. Ever notice how EIE is called the "Actor?" There's a reason.

[Esaman]

Sorry buddy but you are dead wrong. Ever notice how EIE is called the "Actor?" There's a reason.

The reason is that EIE is dramatic, in other words his/her emotions and expressions are accentuated like in a performance. Is EIE generally performing? No. At basic level EIE sees dynamic progressions and evaluates them emotionally and strongly. There is nothing artificial about it, though it is hard for people to believe EIE is for real because 1. they are not equally emotional 2. they don't see what EIE sees ( or totally wrongly imagines) with Ni.

Of course a person can be disingenuous inside and out, but that has absolutely nothing to do with type. Saying that being Fe leading means being disingenuous about emotion means unjustly messing with dirt not only all ExE people, but every single person alive, because it means that they are also disingenuous about their alternative leads. Person making such claims is either an idiot or a person who has not ever met a anyone with integrity and is a degenerate himself.

[Gilly]

The reason is that EIE is dramatic, in other words his/her emotions and expressions are accentuated like in a performance. Is EIE generally performing? No. At basic level EIE sees dynamic progressions and evaluates them emotionally and strongly. There is nothing artificial about it, though it is hard for people to believe EIE is for real because 1. they are not equally emotional 2. they don't see what EIE sees ( or totally wrongly imagines) with Ni.

Of course a person can be disingenuous inside and out, but that has absolutely nothing to do with type. Saying that being Fe leading means being disingenuous about emotion means unjustly messing with dirt not only all ExE people, but every single person alive, because it means that they are also disingenuous about their alternative leads. Person making such claims is either an idiot or a person who has not ever met a anyone with integrity and is a degenerate himself.

I never said being Fe leading means being fake or emotionally disingenuous. Never said that. But they are CERTAINLY not any LESS likely to be emotionally disingenuous.

Believe me, I sleep next to one.

[Beautiful sky]

The reason is that EIE is dramatic, in other words his/her emotions and expressions are accentuated like in a performance. Is EIE generally performing? No. At basic level EIE sees dynamic progressions and evaluates them emotionally and strongly. There is nothing artificial about it, though it is hard for people to believe EIE is for real because 1. they are not equally emotional 2. they don't see what EIE sees ( or totally wrongly imagines) with Ni.

Of course a person can be disingenuous inside and out, but that has absolutely nothing to do with type. Saying that being Fe leading means being disingenuous about emotion means unjustly messing with dirt not only all ExE people, but every single person alive, because it means that they are also disingenuous about their alternative leads. Person making such claims is either an idiot or a person who has not ever met a anyone with integrity and is a degenerate himself.

I love your post. Just love it.

[Beautiful sky]

She is ESE.
Plays ESE at least in "Hysteria" and "Stranger than fiction".
Obviously rational, ethical, extroverted and sensor.
Having watched multiple interviews in a row even I get almost overdosed on Fe.

Wrong, she's your conflict relations who acts and looks like your dual. Demonstrative function, don't forget it. A person is likely to demonstrate that and "attract" the opposite member of the opposite pair. OUCH

[Esaman]

I love your post. Just love it.

Thanks.

Wrong, she's your conflict relations who acts and looks like your dual. Demonstrative function, don't forget it. A person is likely to demonstrate that and "attract" the opposite member of the opposite pair. OUCH

I am too familiar with the "OUCH" to make that mistake. SEE's emotions and expressions are fickle.

[Beautiful sky]

I am too familiar with the "OUCH" to make that mistake. SEE's emotions and expressions are fickle.

I agree with you, but do you think she would want to come off that way?

[Esaman]

I agree with you, but do you think she would want to come off that way?

Who?How?

Does SEE want to appear fickle? No.
Do SEE want to be very positive, welcoming and attractive in their expressions? Often, because that is very apparent way to direct relationships, and relationships(Fi) is what SEE care about. Fe is secondary to Fi so they sometimes use it fast and loose for it's purposes.
Would ESE go out of her way (Fe experience and judgment) to put on pleasant expressions to improve people's relation to her? Fe base, Fi ignoring. Figure it out.

Would Maggie want to come off the way she does? That is a bogus question. Why and who wouldn't?
The question is whether she tries or lets herself be that way. One cannot force a real laugh. So, is she acting laughing at her own thoughts and even at herself?? Sorry, cynicism will have to be suspended.

[717495]

Only retards mistake their conflictor for their dual. Duals are really apparent, feels like you're talking to an extended version of yourself, your character and disposition towards the world. Not the same as just getting along.

[Creepy-Snaps]

At least no one proposed T>F this year. So i will ignore that.
That leaves Fi or Fe in ego. It is depressing that people cant recognize Fe when it is staring them in the face.

Insulting people is the worst way of convincing them to your thinking.

After watching the two videos you linked, my impression stands Delta NF.

[Saberstorm]

Do we have baseline, universally agreeded upon examples of all four female types with "fourth dimensional" extraverted feeling? (That means "leading" Fe types such as the ESE and EIE, and "demonstrative" Fe such as the SEE and IEE?

Come on, who is a KNOWN female:

A) SEE?
B) IEE?
C) ESE?
D) EIE?

Let us end this torture!

[Creepy-Snaps]

Come on, who is a KNOWN female:

A) SEE?
B) IEE?
C) ESE?
D) EIE?

Ugh, if we really have to do this, for the sake of argument:

C - Kristen Bell seems to be the most universally agreed-upon female ESE.
D - I personally think Taylor Swift is a good example of EIE.
B - Ellen Degeneres is a solid IEE example, although some IEE's are more laid-back and not as 'over-the-top'.
A - Although not a female, Craig Ferguson is the best example of a celebrity SEE that I can think of.

I think Maggie-Gyllenhaal is Delta NF because she exudes much more Fi and non-expression, as opposed to Fe-egos. I don't see any Alpha SF's boisterous loudness from her, or joking about things in a physical sense, and I don't see any Beta NF Ni from her, talking about personal identity, position in life, firmness of attitude. What I see from Maggie indicates Delta NF - she jokes about social awkwardness in a very Ne- stream of consciousness, jumping topics, humorous way.

[717495]

Idk why people think she's an E. You're mistaking being social/talkative for extroverted. She looks introverted to me (like she's drawing energy from within not from her surroundings), and hella not (that's like the first thing you should be noticing if u good at Socionics.)

Actually I'm more surprised more people aren't noticing the glaring dynamics in her demeanor compared to egos. There is like an opposite of high static energy in her holistic composition, slower calculation and awareness time, pretty much a solid IP. She reminds me of a bunch of Si-SEIs I know irl in her expressions and quirks, or Kirsten Dunst (SEI), Allison Hannigan (SEI), Kari Byron (SEI) etc.

So, is she acting laughing at her own thoughts and even at herself??

That's actually a good question. She seems to like laughing at and with her expressions at the same time, to cause this flowing aggregate. From my experience this is uncharacteristic of Delta NFs and quite SEI-like. I can't picture how a Delta would put so much force and conscious motivation into doing things like this, but I've seen it a lot from SEIs (and much more unstressed/natural from Fe doms.)

[Trevor]

1:11 to 1:15

[golden]

1:11 to 1:15

WHAT

[717495]

1:11 to 1:15

Reminds me of Robyn (SEI). Just look at the unconscious effort she's putting on all those little dynamics in expression, the subtle movements, making herself feel proper according to her situation, vs say how an is going to immediately always focus on the accordance of their words to their internal belief system or resonance, so those corrections and internal dialogue is going to be so much more noticeable and unnuanced.

I don't want to make a random comparison, but who do you guys type Delta NF. I will draw a clear comparison to any Delta NF we agree upon.

[Radio]

hi poli, did you know Ashton types aerorobyn Gamma NT now?

[Absurd]

BWahhahahshahaha, mwahahahahhahaha, hahahahhahaha.

[717495]

hi poli, did you know Ashton types aerorobyn Gamma NT now?

No he doesn't.

[Absurd]

No he doesn't.

Don't do it polikujm, I'm going to get rich laughing. A non-rich, non-laughing LSE is the worst. Oh and by the way, did you know, that Ashton types Radio LSI?

[Radio]

No he doesn't.

[Radio]

now make some bullshit excuses and weasel out of this by conceding how you thought aerorobyn was gamma NT all along

[717495]

Well it might be something to look into now. I certainly wouldn't care if it was something you thought of.

[Absurd]

Bwahahahahaha. I'm facking smart. Mum, dad, dog, cat, monkey, I told you.

[717495]

Pretty much anything generally Socionics-related, I've found Ashton knows what he's talking about. Maybe it's in my undoing for trusting him too much on certain things, but since he's come to a lot of the same understandings I have I don't naturally doubt his typological opinions by impulse like I do others.

But regarding Gyllenhaal, Robyn is not the only comparison I've made. She reminds me of lots of SEIs.

[Radio]

Pretty much any dick I've sucked, I've found Ashton's the tastiest.

fixed.

[Gilly]

fixed.

AHAHAHAHAA omg...

[Gilly]

Ashton is a smart dude though, no doubt, but I find he's kind of hit or miss. Like there have been some people whose types were really unclear to me that he was able to discern, but then he types Eminem as LSE.

[Absurd]

That's ephemeros.

It is, he ditched his musical career though and stopped by to post on socionics forum.

[717495]

fixed.

If your aim is to get at me by means of slander, it will be much easier to take a non-Gilly approach. I've found Gilly to be a bit watery, even though we've made our amends, and you're like a buzzing fly I just place my thumb over.

[ashlesha]

regardless of what anybody thinks about poli following ashton's typings i feel like pointing out that at least he's pretty honest about it.

you can gauge how reliable of a typer you think poli is or how much you respect his opinions based on that but at least its out in the open, you know?