ScarlettLux is Gamma

[snegledmaca]

Hmm, tell me about these sentiments, I picked them so that they would signify the different approaches used with a certain IM element.

For ethics: tell me what should one do with ethics?

In every situation you should stop and consider how your actions impact others.

Vs.

One should go out and have fun with people.

For logic: tell me how would you approach solving problems?

Find a method to solve the problem.

Vs.

Well placed formulation solves any problem.

For sensing: I wish to give you a task...

As long as I'm comfortable.

Vs.

Bring it on! Challenge me!

For intuition: Tell me, where does the answer to this question lie in?

In the mind, there in the answer lies in.

Vs.

Hmm, I don't really know. The question?

On second thought, LIE is a better fit for me.

Joke or no joke, you should consider it. Not that I would say that you are, but you should consider all the possibilities. I mean, think of it this way, if you have this depression thing going on, who knows how screwed up you are right now.

SL and ezra are leaving beta.....

And me.

[aestrivex]

Okay. Um, my relationships at the moment ... well, I have a close circle of girl friends that I connected with this year (to my surprise) consisting of an LII, an ESE, and two LSIs. Yes, based on this, it is very difficult to support my being SEE.

However - I do not and have never felt entirely comfortable with this group, despite being with them most of my time in school. In truth, they drain the life out of me, but seeing as it is my final year of high school and my old group of friends have all left and graduated, I am sort of "stuck". I am by no means demeaning them or undermining their value towards me. I love them dearly and without them, I would most likely be pretty much a loner. Or not - actually, I think I'd know how to fend for myself and make new friends. It's just that I don't feel like doing so because there are only so few months left and I'm never going to see these people anymore. It takes work to "infiltrate" a set clique of people, especially when these cliques have grown and strengthened in the 4 years of high school.

My old group of friends that graduated... well, I got close with them sort of by fluke. Grade 10 & 11 were definitely the happiest times of my life. I finally felt like I'd found a set of people compatible with me. They were much more fun-loving and outgoing, which these girls are not. That's the problem - I'm consistently bored on the weekends because I used to have so many things to do, so many events to go to and people to socialize with ... now I don't. Anyway, these people were mostly IEEs interestingly enough, and there was an ILI in the mix, as well as a couple of IEIs. I was never close with the ILI, actually I am not sure if he is ILI ... but the others I'm sure of. I got along swimmingly with all of them, and I guess I enjoyed the attention they provided me since most of them were males and I was usually the only female. That's another thing - I love the company of males and have realized I am competitive with basically every single female I set my eyes on. It's pretty unhealthy, but I think it has roots with my bad relationship with my mom.

I notice that I like people who are either Ixxp or Exxp temperament, because I feel like I can really let loose and stop containing myself as I have been containing myself for so long. This is destroying my sense of self really, I feel like I don't know who I am anymore. I'm around too many boring Ixxjs. I think my "shadow" is coming out - like I'm forced to introvert lately and it's really killing me.

I notice that I actually DON'T offer as readily as ego types do. The way they impose themselves on other peoples' emotions is just irritating. I'm not happy, so don't try and make me happy or even cheer me up. I would rather just talk about it maybe, not smooth it over with fake happiness. I don't like fakeness, but who does?!

My parents constantly tell me to be smile more and be more friendly because apparently I am not whenever I meet their friends, etc. I abhor it when they tell me to do that because I don't sacrifice my inner feelings to create an external mood for other people just because "it's the right thing to do" in a social situation. I think that is the clearest example of how I value - although I am very bubbly to people I like and whatnot. I am actually heavily against "faking" any kind of emotion to get by... if I feel like shit, I feel like shit and you're going to know about it because I'm not going to hide it just for the sake of keeping you happy.

Also, I do not think I even understand much because I've been so concerned with thinking about what is and how I demonstrate that function, where it could easily be that I've been mistaken.

People that complement me :

Eccentric and alternative people. I love anyone bizarre - something to spark my interest, especially people that seem twisted or "dark". I LOVE that! I want to get to know them more, because they really fascinate me. I'd say they complement me because I'm really a very twisted person myself and to have the company of someone who won't shun that and will embrace that is nice. I value ambition in others and like those unafraid of being ruthless when it is necessary to be. People who seem a little battered and broken or even 'cut-off' from the world interest me because I see myself in them. I wouldn't feel so alone.

Another thing - if I were in a romantic relationship with someone, I would definitely want them to be almost a loner (lol) ... I'm so selfish that I want them all for myself, so that I know they will never run away or find someone else. Kinda like I "own" them and only I can give them that special love... yikes, I sound disturbing.

People that annoy me - Basically the opposite of all that I said above. Closemindedness, but that's a given for most people right? I mean, no one would say that they value closemindedness.

I don't really like extraverts - it's like they steal my rightful spotlight and I don't want to compete for attention. Oh, also - I don't like emotional, overly gushy people especially in relationships.

My approach to life? I don't really know, I don't have any set rules or anything about it. I see life as an adventure, a mission. During this stage of my life, I have come to face a huge obstacle that I need to get over, but I still believe that willpower is the key and that I WILL get over it. I just like seeing everything as a challenge because it makes things more meaningful and easier to accept (especially the difficult times.) I think going through rough times strengthens people, and that it is necessary for a really developed person to have gone through the worst of the worst to really experience the best of the best. A lot of the most highly creative and ingenious people have had troubled pasts, and I guess I relate to those that are suffering. I hate hate hate those born with silver spoons in their mouths ... it frustrates me to no end that these people have barely anything to get over. Some things just do not seem fair.

I think that a person has to be REALLY mindful of their goals. I am a huge goal setter and always think about accomplishing things in the near/distant future. I always keep something in mind to spur me on, especially when I feel like the present just sucks ass. That's why I also dislike people who float around without any plans about the future, just too stuck on the present moment.

OMG kudos to whoever reads this entire thing. I liked typing it up - it spilled out "poison" inside me that I wanted to get out anyway ... not enough me me me for this forum yet

actually a fair amount of of this does sound very SEE-ish.

[reyn_til_runa]

SL, i'm a little confused about the attention-seeking. what kind of attention do you usually require of people?

[BLauritson]

Welp, after reading all that I'm thinking you could be SEE. I doubt you're EIE at any rate, since nothing you wrote there irritated me, which is something I often feel at some point or another when reading the writings of EIEs. Oh well, hopefully they find me just as annoying. But yeah, I haven't seen anything that goes against SEE in what you've written so..

I thought that annoyance came from seeing someone like myself ... but is it right to be annoyed by your own type/mirror type?

I can't vouch for others, but I've always liked Gamma NTs. It takes longer for me to warm to other ILIs (well, I say that, there's only one other ILI I currently know well enough to have warmed to in the first place, so I don't know if that's a general rule or not) but I tend to bond with LIEs a lot quicker IME. Do you know any ESIs? If so, how do you feel about them generally?

Okay, too much for now, brain needs rest. Body needs movement!

More evidence for SEE (not so much the first sentence, but SEEs tend to be pretty physically active people IME).

[ScarlettLux]

SL, i'm a little confused about the attention-seeking. what kind of attention do you usually require of people?

Well honestly - I just want to be liked. Maybe admired would be a better word. I would like to be the center of a group of people... that sort of thing. It's the same reason why so many people want to be famous. Craving the limelight is definitely something I identify with because it just gives me this excitement inside and fulfilment.

[ScarlettLux]

I would like to hear why you guys see me as SEE .. lol. It's funny because I honestly believed there would be a LOT of resistance to this.

[ScarlettLux]

Hmm, tell me about these sentiments, I picked them so that they would signify the different approaches used with a certain IM element.

For ethics: tell me what should one do with ethics?

In every situation you should stop and consider how your actions impact others.

Vs.

One should go out and have fun with people.

For logic: tell me how would you approach solving problems?

Find a method to solve the problem.

Vs.

Well placed formulation solves any problem.

For sensing: I wish to give you a task...

As long as I'm comfortable.

Vs.

Bring it on! Challenge me!

For intuition: Tell me, where does the answer to this question lie in?

In the mind, there in the answer lies in.

Vs.

Hmm, I don't really know. The question?



Joke or no joke, you should consider it. Not that I would say that you are, but you should consider all the possibilities. I mean, think of it this way, if you have this depression thing going on, who knows how screwed up you are right now.



And me.

That was a little too obvious there, snegledmaca I tried not to be biased ... but it's really difficult when you know exactly what the other person is trying to find out haha. Maybe some more subliminal type questions would be better ... err, I'm not even sure that is the proper term for what I want to express. Something more random, so I won't know what you're looking for.

And you? Haha, that's pretty funny b/c you have always said you relate to me. I'm sorta feeling it too, but not in an identical sense. Also, I am very much screwed up right now. Bah.

[reyn_til_runa]

Well honestly - I just want to be liked. Maybe admired would be a better word. I would like to be the center of a group of people... that sort of thing. It's the same reason why so many people want to be famous. Craving the limelight is definitely something I identify with because it just gives me this excitement inside and fulfilment.

and what about 1-on-1 or in a group of 3-6?

[ScarlettLux]

Welp, after reading all that I'm thinking you could be SEE. I doubt you're EIE at any rate, since nothing you wrote there irritated me, which is something I often feel at some point or another when reading the writings of EIEs. Oh well, hopefully they find me just as annoying. But yeah, I haven't seen anything that goes against SEE in what you've written so..



I can't vouch for others, but I've always liked Gamma NTs. It takes longer for me to warm to other ILIs (well, I say that, there's only one other ILI I currently know well enough to have warmed to in the first place, so I don't know if that's a general rule or not) but I tend to bond with LIEs a lot quicker IME. Do you know any ESIs? If so, how do you feel about them generally?



More evidence for SEE (not so much the first sentence, but SEEs tend to be pretty physically active people IME).

LOL EIEs annoying? ... Say it ain't so!

But just FTR, I can't say I'm that physically active anymore .. but again, that has more to do with my mental state than my real "self" imo. Also, my mother may be an ESI but that I am not sure of. Her and I do not get along, she always nags at me. She is too much of a rational neat freak, that's why. Other than that, I know no ESIs. It's really weird how I know so little Gammas =[ In order of # of people from each quadra I know IRL it would probably go Alpha > Beta > Delta > Gamma

[ScarlettLux]

and what about 1-on-1 or in a group of 3-6?

I'm not sure what you mean by this ... like, how do I fare in these types of situations? Or how my attention seeking differs? In any case, 1 on 1 I become much more subdued and I actually enjoy listening a lot more to the other person, strangely enough, and I like having long, drawn out conversations. For me, 1 on 1 is much more "serious" and meaningful ... the attention I want in a group is a lot different from how I would actually behave 1 on 1 with someone. I wouldn't be that obnoxious.

I think 3 is an ideal # for friendships ... more than that is just weird, can't get in your real thoughts/feelings in a conversation with more than 3 people imo. What I mean by attention seeking from people is more along the lines of - in a huge group, I can act a lot more superficial than I really am.

[reyn_til_runa]

I'm not sure what you mean by this ... like, how do I fare in these types of situations? Or how my attention seeking differs? In any case, 1 on 1 I become much more subdued and I actually enjoy listening a lot more to the other person, strangely enough, and I like having long, drawn out conversations. For me, 1 on 1 is much more "serious" and meaningful ... the attention I want in a group is a lot different from how I would actually behave 1 on 1 with someone. I wouldn't be that obnoxious.

thats what i meant.

I think 3 is an ideal # for friendships ... more than that is just weird, can't get in your real thoughts/feelings in a conversation with more than 3 people imo. What I mean by attention seeking from people is more along the lines of - in a huge group, I can act a lot more superficial than I really am.

i see.

what is your idea of a meaningful 1-on-1 conversation?

[snegledmaca]

That was a little too obvious there, snegledmaca I tried not to be biased ... but it's really difficult when you know exactly what the other person is trying to find out haha. Maybe some more subliminal type questions would be better ... err, I'm not even sure that is the proper term for what I want to express. Something more random, so I won't know what you're looking for.

Well, the random stuff, for me at least, are your accounts of your life and so on. This would be more of a conscious effort at understanding how the elements relate to you. Kind of, examining the quadra values thing. Like, what do you prefer. I was counting on the bias really. Along with an explanation of it.

Also, if you would like the not so obvious, the "mystery games", I can take your response to my inquiries and interpret them. Like, how you treated this as a task. I could say not a NF, as there was in the opening sentence "tell me about these sentiments" which I'm sure an intuitive ethical type would latch on to and go in-depth and personal on them. Or at least touch upon it. They most definitely would not approach it like you did. You're approach was hands on, as in, you took it and you did it, and are now awaiting my response, "insight" as you will. From this I can see how one might be led to conclude that you really do have Ni in the super ID. If this is your normal behavior, as in, you provide it and they explain it. But it could be a response to the analytical nature of socionics, although I wouldn't say so.

And you? Haha, that's pretty funny b/c you have always said you relate to me. I'm sorta feeling it too, but not in an identical sense.

Well I do relate. Very much. Since you made your first post on that other site. You respond/react to things like I do. At least it seems like that to me.

Also, I am very much screwed up right now. Bah.

Well that's a shame really. And it might make it harder for people to determine your type.

[ScarlettLux]

thats what i meant.

i see.

what is your idea of a meaningful 1-on-1 conversation?

Just getting to know the other person in depth. Their personal thoughts, feelings, insights, etc. without all the hustle and bustle / noise of the outside. I would like it to know the inner person, the real person beneath the facade they might put up in defense. Any conversation about a mutually interesting topic that also serves a purpose for me in getting to know how the other person "ticks".

[ScarlettLux]

Well, the random stuff, for me at least, are your accounts of your life and so on. This would be more of a conscious effort at understanding how the elements relate to you. Kind of, examining the quadra values thing. Like, what do you prefer. I was counting on the bias really. Along with an explanation of it.

Also, if you would like the not so obvious, the "mystery games", I can take your response to my inquiries and interpret them. Like, how you treated this as a task. I could say not a NF, as there was in the opening sentence "tell me about these sentiments" which I'm sure an intuitive ethical type would latch on to and go in-depth and personal on them. Or at least touch upon it. They most definitely would not approach it like you did. You're approach was hands on, as in, you took it and you did it, and are now awaiting my response, "insight" as you will. From this I can see how one might be led to conclude that you really do have Ni in the super ID. If this is your normal behavior, as in, you provide it and they explain it. But it could be a response to the analytical nature of socionics, although I wouldn't say so.

Well I do relate. Very much. Since you made your first post on that other site. You respond/react to things like I do. At least it seems like that to me.

Well that's a shame really. And it might make it harder for people to determine your type.

Okay. Interesting, I did not even think there was another way to respond to your questions rather than the straightforward way. My bits about myself were already way too long. Did you decide upon a type for yourself btw? SLI?

[snegledmaca]

Okay. Interesting, I did not even think there was another way to respond to your questions rather than the straightforward way.

And I'd say such automatic reactions are a hallmark of your ego. Which would not be an intuitive one I'd say, based on that.

My bits about myself were already way too long.

They didn't seem so long to me. Or better phrased, they weren't long enough. For me.

Did you decide upon a type for yourself btw? SLI?

No, it was through a conversation with nifweed that he brought it up and it pretty soon became quite clear I was a delta ST. However, I'm not entirely certain about SLI. Other then my relationship with my mother the basis for it is how I come across. Which I don't find such a strong indicator. Actually, if there weren't for the relation with my mother I'd just go with delta ST.

Actually, I would now recommend talking to nifweed. It think it's beneficial to have a differing perspective like that, it makes you aware of things about yourself you took for granted. For example, I had no idea people did not have such focus on Si. I have been surrounded by it my whole life and have learned to take it for granted.

[Expat]

I would like to hear why you guys see me as SEE .. lol. It's funny because I honestly believed there would be a LOT of resistance to this.

what I find odd is why, then, you identified so much with being a Victim, and seemed to understand and expect Se in others so well.

[ScarlettLux]

Yep, that's odd for me too.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

This is new. How are you Gamma? You're joking right? You lack the serious harsh-ness of Gammas. Not that you can't be bad-ass but just in a different way.

Btw, to be perfectly honest with you- I find you grating at times, but you seem just so good-natured and friendly and I really don't want you to be in the same camp as Expat 'cause I don't like him. =p

[ScarlettLux]

This is new. How are you Gamma? You're joking right? You lack the serious harsh-ness of Gammas. Not that you can't be bad-ass but just in a different way.

Btw, to be perfectly honest with you- I find you grating at times, but you seem just so good-natured and friendly and I really don't want you to be in the same camp as Expat 'cause I don't like him. =p

LOL I know I'm grating at times, I'm terribly stupid on this forum. Actually I'd say I'm becoming more annoying by the day. This is probably because I'm becoming bored with the forum and would like more entertainment. This is blatantly an attention seeking thread. I don't even know if I am joking or serious about this thread anymore!

[aestrivex]

why do you think your current group of friends "drains the life out of you?" what kinds of things to they do to irk you?


also: when you believed unequivocally that you were IEI/EIE, what did you think you got out of Ti as a superid function? and how do you think your perspective has since changed?

[Creepy-bg]

LOL I know I'm grating at times, I'm terribly stupid on this forum. Actually I'd say I'm becoming more annoying by the day. This is probably because I'm becoming bored with the forum and would like more entertainment. This is blatantly an attention seeking thread. I don't even know if I am joking or serious about this thread anymore!

you aren't grating to me in the least... there's people who bug the shit out of me here, not you

[Joy]

you aren't grating to me in the least... there's people who bug the shit out of me here, not you

indeed

[olduser]

i suspected intp from the start.

[Joy]

lol

[ScarlettLux]

why do you think your current group of friends "drains the life out of you?" what kinds of things to they do to irk you?


also: when you believed unequivocally that you were IEI/EIE, what did you think you got out of Ti as a superid function? and how do you think your perspective has since changed?

I'm drained mainly in the fact that they are more or less a group of introverts - even the ESE doesn't get out much, not in the sense that I would like. As I mentioned before, the IEEs and IEIs I used to be close with were much more wild and receptive to crazy parties and the usual social stuff teenagers get up to. These girls are like angels. It's nice, but only in small doses. I feel restrained among them. They're just homebodies. Another huge thing is how they are too conservative in their values ... so traditional ! Let loose once in a while, jeez. They don't seem to embrace "fun" (at least my definition of it)

I believed to be something that would basically make sense of my chaotic nature. I usually feel very befuddled inside, and want someone to straighten me out, maybe set me on the right path or routine. I thought clarified my emotions and ... I don't really know how else other than to say that it was equated (to me) with clarity.

My perspective has changed because I have been thinking that dominance actually doesn't fit for me like I thought it did ... the people here who are IEI especially, seem to have a different "vibe" than I do (weak reasoning, I know) ... Also, I never identified with certain descriptions of feeling like knowing stuff about "timing" and thus, never feeling rushed/overwhelmed with work? I always just feel in a muddle of sorts, and need someone else to calm me down... I'm usually very anxious inside, internally stressed out < -- yes, I think that's a huge important point about me.

dominance does not seem as far-fetched as it did to me before. I am in fact, very domineering and I can't deny that I love to increase and expand my personal/social power. I admit I don't think I have intense physical presence or anything - but then again, none of you have met me IRL, and there are so many who say they are intimidated by me. That has more to do with my supposed "snobbery" and "coldness" than anything else... I have gotten this from tons of people and in turn, they actually are fearful of me.

Another strange thing to note guys - this is really not how I behave normally, say, in school. I am definitely less good-natured and "friendly" ... though say, if I were to go to a Socionics meet or something, I would be outgoing enough because I like strangers (dunno why) and feel I am good at charming strangers. HOWEVER, maybe it is just because I look down upon the mass majority of my fellow high school classmates, most of the time I could care less about being bubbly/friendly/engaging. I can be quite crass and rude if I feel the person deserves it (which admittedly, is more often than not!)

I like manipulating people, and this might sound stupid but, I feel quite "evil" on the inside most of the time. I'm just intensely selfish... I know this has nothing to do with type, but I just wanted to expel that out there because I truly find it mind-boggling and even a bit frustrating that I can come across one way online and be another way offline... and for the worse too

[aestrivex]

you still could be beta NF with that description...

what you wrote for possible -leading isn't really an argument for it, I think. it works perfectly well with -leading.

there are a lot of elements of these descriptions that are very much related to Se and look remarkably similar to sentiments echoed by other SEEs.

how would you explain both of the extended descriptions in this thread from the context of Fe dominance?

[aestrivex]

well "related to Se" ... of course this works if she's beta NF.

what sentiments do you mean exactly? I happen to think a lot of these sentiments are not unusual coming from an emotionally unhealthy, confused young woman, regardless of type.

- that ExFjs are not averse to this "social power" thing that SL mentioned
- the EIE's HA is
- the idealism I write about below


beta NFs are idealistic. with + it is very easy for them to project these ideals onto themselves and behave that way to fulfill the fantasy and make others believe it... especially if they are unhappy IMO... the way that they "want" to be so badly. that's (one of the reasons) why they mistype themselves/are mistyped so often on this forum.

yes, I'm very sorry you have these problems

yes, lol. it's quite easy to be, IME. but this may have to do with who my identicals/mirrors are...

not something an SEE would do, IMO, but very much a beta NF.

no, not really. high school cliques are... well... I think you know

is not about being all fake happy all the time, nor imposing on other's emotions.

i think that nearly everything here is irrelevant.

i'll at some point go through this and try to explain why i see an SeFi perspective from scarlettlux's descriptions.

[aestrivex]

Okay. Um, my relationships at the moment ... well, I have a close circle of girl friends that I connected with this year (to my surprise) consisting of an LII, an ESE, and two LSIs. Yes, based on this, it is very difficult to support my being SEE.

However - I do not and have never felt entirely comfortable with this group, despite being with them most of my time in school. In truth, they drain the life out of me, but seeing as it is my final year of high school and my old group of friends have all left and graduated, I am sort of "stuck". I am by no means demeaning them or undermining their value towards me. I love them dearly and without them, I would most likely be pretty much a loner. Or not - actually, I think I'd know how to fend for myself and make new friends. It's just that I don't feel like doing so because there are only so few months left and I'm never going to see these people anymore. It takes work to "infiltrate" a set clique of people, especially when these cliques have grown and strengthened in the 4 years of high school.

My old group of friends that graduated... well, I got close with them sort of by fluke. Grade 10 & 11 were definitely the happiest times of my life. I finally felt like I'd found a set of people compatible with me. They were much more fun-loving and outgoing, which these girls are not. That's the problem - I'm consistently bored on the weekends because I used to have so many things to do, so many events to go to and people to socialize with ... now I don't. Anyway, these people were mostly IEEs interestingly enough, and there was an ILI in the mix, as well as a couple of IEIs. I was never close with the ILI, actually I am not sure if he is ILI ... but the others I'm sure of. I got along swimmingly with all of them, and I guess I enjoyed the attention they provided me since most of them were males and I was usually the only female. That's another thing - I love the company of males and have realized I am competitive with basically every single female I set my eyes on. It's pretty unhealthy, but I think it has roots with my bad relationship with my mom.

I notice that I like people who are either Ixxp or Exxp temperament, because I feel like I can really let loose and stop containing myself as I have been containing myself for so long. This is destroying my sense of self really, I feel like I don't know who I am anymore. I'm around too many boring Ixxjs. I think my "shadow" is coming out - like I'm forced to introvert lately and it's really killing me.

most of this i'm not inclined to take entirely seriously, because it depends upon your having typed all of these people correctly. but if they were -- on the whole -- typed correctly, all of this would make perfect sense. one thing that is of note is that it's much more about the kind of people you're with; the emphasis that you're placing on why the groups didn't work does not seem to be related to the Fe sort of feel of the group. an Fi creative who was around people that didnt seem very engaging or responsive to what they were interested in -- it would be easy for me to see how that person would get bored quickly.

I notice that I actually DON'T offer as readily as ego types do. The way they impose themselves on other peoples' emotions is just irritating. I'm not happy, so don't try and make me happy or even cheer me up. I would rather just talk about it maybe, not smooth it over with fake happiness. I don't like fakeness, but who does?!

My parents constantly tell me to be smile more and be more friendly because apparently I am not whenever I meet their friends, etc. I abhor it when they tell me to do that because I don't sacrifice my inner feelings to create an external mood for other people just because "it's the right thing to do" in a social situation. I think that is the clearest example of how I value - although I am very bubbly to people I like and whatnot. I am actually heavily against "faking" any kind of emotion to get by... if I feel like shit, I feel like shit and you're going to know about it because I'm not going to hide it just for the sake of keeping you happy.

this sounds very Fi > Fe, obviously.

People that complement me :

Eccentric and alternative people. I love anyone bizarre - something to spark my interest, especially people that seem twisted or "dark". I LOVE that! I want to get to know them more, because they really fascinate me. I'd say they complement me because I'm really a very twisted person myself and to have the company of someone who won't shun that and will embrace that is nice. I value ambition in others and like those unafraid of being ruthless when it is necessary to be. People who seem a little battered and broken or even 'cut-off' from the world interest me because I see myself in them. I wouldn't feel so alone.

you do realize what you're describing here?

Another thing - if I were in a romantic relationship with someone, I would definitely want them to be almost a loner (lol) ... I'm so selfish that I want them all for myself, so that I know they will never run away or find someone else. Kinda like I "own" them and only I can give them that special love... yikes, I sound disturbing.

one thing that's interesting is that liveandletlive once told me something strikingly similar about how she wants to sort of assert control over all of her relationships and make them subservient to her. that was the first thing i noticed that i really associated with SEE when going through this description. and i think that if done correctly an ILI would respond very well to your "owning" them, because it brings with it a sort of intimacy which is perceived as being the only "real" kind of social interaction, in a way.

My approach to life? I don't really know, I don't have any set rules or anything about it. I see life as an adventure, a mission. During this stage of my life, I have come to face a huge obstacle that I need to get over, but I still believe that willpower is the key and that I WILL get over it. I just like seeing everything as a challenge because it makes things more meaningful and easier to accept (especially the difficult times.) I think going through rough times strengthens people, and that it is necessary for a really developed person to have gone through the worst of the worst to really experience the best of the best. A lot of the most highly creative and ingenious people have had troubled pasts, and I guess I relate to those that are suffering. I hate hate hate those born with silver spoons in their mouths ... it frustrates me to no end that these people have barely anything to get over. Some things just do not seem fair.

I think that a person has to be REALLY mindful of their goals. I am a huge goal setter and always think about accomplishing things in the near/distant future. I always keep something in mind to spur me on, especially when I feel like the present just sucks ass. That's why I also dislike people who float around without any plans about the future, just too stuck on the present moment.

here's where the Se focus really comes into play. emphasis on overcoming obstacles, on self-imposing willpower into one's life, and suggestive Ni in terms of plans about the future and trying to see what the future might be like.

[aestrivex]

I'm drained mainly in the fact that they are more or less a group of introverts - even the ESE doesn't get out much, not in the sense that I would like. As I mentioned before, the IEEs and IEIs I used to be close with were much more wild and receptive to crazy parties and the usual social stuff teenagers get up to. These girls are like angels. It's nice, but only in small doses. I feel restrained among them. They're just homebodies. Another huge thing is how they are too conservative in their values ... so traditional ! Let loose once in a while, jeez. They don't seem to embrace "fun" (at least my definition of it)

this makes perfect sense for an Se person in a very non-Se oriented atmosphere.

I believed to be something that would basically make sense of my chaotic nature. I usually feel very befuddled inside, and want someone to straighten me out, maybe set me on the right path or routine. I thought clarified my emotions and ... I don't really know how else other than to say that it was equated (to me) with clarity.

yes -- SEEs can be very emotionally volatile as well. what kinds of things do you think you respond well to when in such an emotionally volatile state?

My perspective has changed because I have been thinking that dominance actually doesn't fit for me like I thought it did ... the people here who are IEI especially, seem to have a different "vibe" than I do (weak reasoning, I know) ... Also, I never identified with certain descriptions of feeling like knowing stuff about "timing" and thus, never feeling rushed/overwhelmed with work? I always just feel in a muddle of sorts, and need someone else to calm me down... I'm usually very anxious inside, internally stressed out < -- yes, I think that's a huge important point about me.

all of this sounds like SEE. one thing about ILIs -- i think that i'm generally able to get all my work done, but even so most of the time i'm able to not do anything and vegetate. i think that's partially the source of the problem here, is that SEE's don't really know how to be truly lazy.

dominance does not seem as far-fetched as it did to me before. I am in fact, very domineering and I can't deny that I love to increase and expand my personal/social power. I admit I don't think I have intense physical presence or anything - but then again, none of you have met me IRL, and there are so many who say they are intimidated by me. That has more to do with my supposed "snobbery" and "coldness" than anything else... I have gotten this from tons of people and in turn, they actually are fearful of me.

everything you said about overcoming challenges, dominating and taking charge of relationships, i think is already indicative of an Se focus.

Another strange thing to note guys - this is really not how I behave normally, say, in school. I am definitely less good-natured and "friendly" ... though say, if I were to go to a Socionics meet or something, I would be outgoing enough because I like strangers (dunno why) and feel I am good at charming strangers. HOWEVER, maybe it is just because I look down upon the mass majority of my fellow high school classmates, most of the time I could care less about being bubbly/friendly/engaging. I can be quite crass and rude if I feel the person deserves it (which admittedly, is more often than not!)

that makes sense also -- it depends on your evaluation of your present company (think about an Fi filter) and your overall level of comfort with a situation.

I like manipulating people, and this might sound stupid but, I feel quite "evil" on the inside most of the time. I'm just intensely selfish... I know this has nothing to do with type, but I just wanted to expel that out there because I truly find it mind-boggling and even a bit frustrating that I can come across one way online and be another way offline... and for the worse too

this may not be as irrelevant to type as you think. i think it's sort of the same vein as domineering relationships and wanting to "own" people.

[aestrivex]

i'd be interested to talk more to you to see what kind of dynamic develops.

[Joy]

Another thing - if I were in a romantic relationship with someone, I would definitely want them to be almost a loner (lol) ... I'm so selfish that I want them all for myself, so that I know they will never run away or find someone else. Kinda like I "own" them and only I can give them that special love... yikes, I sound disturbing.

I can somewhat relate to this, though I wouldn't put it like that. I can't see myself being happy in a relationship with a flirty or socially extroverted person. I guess I'm sorta possessive, in a way? It's not that I am insecure in relationships, it's just that it's not enjoyable to be with someone who's flirty.

[ScarlettLux]

Oh jeez =[ I just tried to figure out how to do that cool multi-quote thing that you all do ... I must be a total idiot or something cause I just can't figure it out, and yes I clicked the multi-quote button. Is it something you have to do manually? lol I'm lazy.

Thanks for the analysis niff. I am going to try and elucidate on myself a bit more.

Okay, today ... when I was attempting to study in the school library, a group of people came to accompany (distract) me, and I had a blast with them. Now, I'm gonna break down my behavior, was it more Fi or Fe with them I never tried to direct the emotional atmosphere as some Fe people apparently do. Because of the fact that these were people I generally liked and thought were funny, I let them handle things and I made comments here and there about random things that pertained to me or that I was interested in. I never tried to "fully" engage myself (partly cause I was studying I guess) ... but I notice that I always do that in groups. I tend to address one or rarely, two people when I'm talking, even if I'm extremely loud about it. The more I think about it, the more I realize that I don't value group atmosphere ... ahhh! This is scary for me cause I've been so set on Beta NF that to really re-examine myself is freaky. Anyway. I mean, I loved the attention that they gave me, but I always like to break off and have one on one conversations after a while.

Around people that I don't like/know, I don't even try at all to feign smiles and stuff .. yes, I know != fake, but still ... I definitely place huge priority on being "close" and loyal to only certain people and thus, addressing attention to them only at the expense of even being rude to others.

Actually, many people accuse me of that. Of being rude/obnoxious when I'm in a group of people. :S I tend to say outlandish things sometimes... whoa! Just remembered something that happened after school today ... an IEI was bitching at me cause I came in and started talking about something that apparently "ruined the atmosphere" and I was like WTF? Ugh. I never care about that shit, I like to say whatever I want, when I want. She was totally hating on me after that too. BTW, it was something sexual in nature lol, I think I was a little too comfortable with stuff like that than her

Another difference I noticed btw IEIs and I are that they don't seem to be as energetic and "up for things" as I am. I will honestly do anything wild and crazy. I feel best when I get to wrangle everyone up (hopefully willing) to do something fun that I envisioned, or whatever. If someone suggests something, I will probably be the first one to do it. I get VERY pissed at uptight people, which is another thing that annoys me about my girl friends. Sometimes I called these IEIs and they're sooo wishy washy, I always have to pressure them into things. I never give up when I want something either. I'll bug you and bug you and bug you until I get it. IEIs are just more laidback than I am.

I guess another thing I have to admit shamefully - I discarded SEE earlier cause I didn't think they could be capable of being as high achievers academically as I am, especially in typically SEE-averse subjects. I'm more "in my head" too than they seem to be, very intensely introspective as you can see from these long fucking descriptions of myself that never end.

About "owning" someone - I identified with Victim before because I actually don't have a problem with someone owning me but ONLY and ONLY if I also own them too. A mutual owning Total devotion. It's like, I don't want to play the introvert in a relationship. It would be very maddening to have my partner be more outgoing than me and flirtatious - exactly like Joy said. I would rather do that, but I would obviously make sure my partner knew that I loved them and only them. It's a weird double standard thing... they can't flirt but I can.

In a healthy, happy state - I'm always energetic and bubbly. I'm never willingly introverted. I don't like to blatantly draw attention to myself actually IRL though, that I notice other people do .. it's more covert and spastic in a way. I'm not fawning all over people with big smiles whether I know them or not.

I know some dominants and I am hugely different from them. They are almost sickeningly clingy ... with strangers yeah, but with people they know moreso. I look at them sometimes with their over-touchiness (hate hate hate) and I just want to tell them to stop, it's too obvious. I always think is "too obvious" in others - like I "know" what they are doing and they are just failing at it so badly because I know a better way to do it. I feel like I could calm down and take it easy, tantalize people and develop interest / relationships with something way less "obvious."

I'm a LOT more ready to be rude / ignore someone that I don't care for than dominants. They seem to be friendly to all for the sake of, I don't even know. It's draining. I see my ESE friend do that all the time and especially with guys ... if I don't wanna talk to you, you'll definitely know right off the bat. I don't sugarcoat my interest in a person, basically.

[ScarlettLux]

Jesus, I've fulfilled my entire weekly quota of posts with that one post!
One liners from now on

[ScarlettLux]

everyone forget everything I said earlier in this thread

thanks.

?? :S Are you mad ?

[Animal]

This whole thread is kind of weird for me. ScarletLux's main reason for being Gamma seems mostly due to an alleged aversion to ... and yet her posts in this thread are positively dripping with it... and there's actually very little in them, as far as I can tell. The posts deal largely with other people, and delve only into their motivations and psychology superficially (at times, she actually expresses no desire or affinity for understanding these people further than their external behavior).

[ScarlettLux]

This whole thread is kind of weird for me. ScarletLux's main reason for being Gamma seems mostly due to an alleged aversion to ... and yet her posts in this thread are positively dripping with it... and there's actually very little in them, as far as I can tell. The posts deal largely with other people, and delve only into their motivations and psychology superficially (at times, she actually expresses no desire or affinity for understanding these people further than their external behavior).

Hmm, I'll take that into consideration - I am by NO means saying I am definitely SEE. Actually, I do admit this thread was initially a joke created sheerly out of boredom. After hearing other peoples' opinions, I was set out to re-examine things, basically. I was just surprised there was little aversion to this thread, as I had expected to see, somewhat like you and glamourama's posts now. I wonder if other IEIs will think this odd too ? Or other Beta quadra members ...

What in my posts is dripping with ?

[ScarlettLux]

i think SL is merry, declarative, constructivist, imo SLE>>SEI.

God has spoken. I'm SLE now, guys - end of thread.

[Animal]

What in my posts is dripping with ?

I'm not going to do a huge line-by-line analysis, but if you read through what you write, the bulk of it deals with people and their external behavior and your reaction to it. Even in your replies to others, you make expressive asides and react more notably to the fact that people are posting in your thread, rather than dealing instinctively with the actual analysis of you they offer or self-analysis. (This last post is a good example of this as well, when you say you expected more disagreement when you posted this thread.) Not to say there isn't self-analysis there, but the more dynamic aspect is so much more prevalent that it indicates to me that that's really how you instinctually approach the world. Hence, Fe > Fi.

[ScarlettLux]

I'm not going to do a huge line-by-line analysis, but if you read through what you write, the bulk of it deals with people and their external behavior and your reaction to it. Even in your replies to others, you make expressive asides and react more notably to the fact that people are posting in your thread, rather than dealing instinctively with the actual analysis of you they offer or self-analysis. (This last post is a good example of this as well, when you say you expected more disagreement when you posted this thread.) Not to say there isn't self-analysis there, but the more dynamic aspect is so much more prevalent that it indicates to me that that's really how you instinctually approach the world. Hence, Fe > Fi.

Okay, cool, thanks so much for your insight I definitely agree with most of what you said actually ... just exploring all sides to me, it's fun to wonder and hear why people think SEE is actually not far-fetched. I also want to understand more

[aestrivex]

I tend to address one or rarely, two people when I'm talking, even if I'm extremely loud about it.

typical Fi behavior, i think.

I guess another thing I have to admit shamefully - I discarded SEE earlier cause I didn't think they could be capable of being as high achievers academically as I am, especially in typically SEE-averse subjects. I'm more "in my head" too than they seem to be, very intensely introspective as you can see from these long fucking descriptions of myself that never end.

being "in your head" is the first thing that seems to point against SEE, and i think this is a good point and one which deserves further attention -- because as i've seen it, SEEs sort of need me to be in their head for them and explain to them how they're thinking and analyze why this is correct/productive/tangible or not.

how would you describe the process by which you "introspect?" are your conclusions about the dynamics by which you interact with others something you're confident about? do you think it would be useful for you to be able to manage your thoughts and reflections more clearly and with greater depth?

About "owning" someone - I identified with Victim before because I actually don't have a problem with someone owning me but ONLY and ONLY if I also own them too. A mutual owning Total devotion. It's like, I don't want to play the introvert in a relationship. It would be very maddening to have my partner be more outgoing than me and flirtatious - exactly like Joy said. I would rather do that, but I would obviously make sure my partner knew that I loved them and only them. It's a weird double standard thing... they can't flirt but I can.

wouldn't really be a problem for an ILI. think about it as opposed to an SLE.