eunice

[XoX]

I am still having doubts about INFj. Why did you / she arrive at this conclusion? Do other INFjs relate to her opinions? Any other Quadra who is willing to claim her? Do you see her Fi>Fe or Fe>Fi and why?

Edit: I don't know her very well but my first impression is kinda Fe:ish instead of Fi:ish. Dunno why.

[eunice]

This discussion has been going on and on for quite some time. It's time to move on.

[XoX]

This discussion has been going on and on for quite some time. It's time to move on.

It is time to move on when you actually say something positive about _any_ other Delta. But of course you don't "believe in intertype relations" and thus you see no problem in being are a Delta hating, Beta loving INFj? What was your original typing before you changed to ISFj/INFj? I have lost my memory trace regarding that.

[marooned]

If it looks like a duck, and acts like a duck, and sounds like a duck, and identifies with other ducks then maybe it is a duck, rather than a goose that looks like a duck, acts like a duck, sounds like a duck, and identifies with ducks.

[implied]

first, i agree w/ eunice that her type discussion has gone on for too long. i'm sure she doesn't want to create the 2nd longest thread on the board. (;

fwiw, i think imfd95's post makes a lot of sense. i still think she's more Ne/Si than anything and i suppose this could cross over into alpha values. what he's said about an ESFj being a "less boring" dual at this point seems really good, imo. i suppose INTj could be something else to look into. but yeah, i highly doubt that she's identifying so strongly with INFj profiles for this long for no reason at all.

[aestrivex]

This discussion has been going on and on for quite some time. It's time to move on.

it is time to move on, but it's time to get it right first.

[implied]

it is time to move on, but it's time to get it right first.

i agree with this, but it might already be right. something i've noticed is that eunice isn't the first INFj here to express a lot of dissatisfaction with ESTjs as a dual. i can name at least 3 others who have pretty much said, "ESTjs aren't that great and have many negative points."


correct me if i'm wrong, but it seems like you and expat both sort of subscribe to this idea that you cannot dislike your dual, or dislike a person who is your dual.

[aestrivex]

@ implied: get real.

[implied]

@ implied: get real.

@niffweed, get over yourself.

[misutii]

i agree with this, but it might already be right. something i've noticed is that eunice isn't the first INFj here to express a lot of dissatisfaction with ESTjs as a dual. i can name at least 3 others who have pretty much said, "ESTjs aren't that great and have many negative points."


correct me if i'm wrong, but it seems like you and expat both sort of subscribe to this idea that you cannot dislike your dual, or dislike a person who is your dual.

Adding to this it seems reasonable that types from quadras that don't value Fe (Gamma+Delta) will be more prone to speaking "ill" of their dual. I notice that gammas and deltas in general, when speaking of people they're close to, often don't speak too highly. It's kind of like the "I recognize these faults but love them regardless" type thing.

[UDP]

time for another video

[implied]

Adding to this it seems reasonable that types from quadras that don't value Fe (Gamma+Delta) will be more prone to speaking "ill" of their dual. I notice that gammas and deltas in general, when speaking of people they're close to, often don't speak too highly. It's kind of like the "I recognize these faults but love them regardless" type thing.

yeah, i remember miss kensington pointed this out once -- that she thought gammas were quite into criticizing their family/loved ones as a matter of showing they care, almost, whereas she didn't really understand it. basically i wonder if perhaps this isn't getting turned into some interpretation of a merry type. i've heard self-proclaimed INTps go on about how horrid ESFps are as well, although that's not such a surprise. (;

i'm not sure how closely it correlates to the merry/serious dichotomy. i think some merry types are also prone to saying awful things about their mates -- and getting their mates approval. some types will really push the limits with this. although, i think in the cases i'm talking about, the motivation here is something different. possibly related to just being a jerk. (;

[Expat]

correct me if i'm wrong, but it seems like you and expat both sort of subscribe to this idea that you cannot dislike your dual, or dislike a person who is your dual.

I will correct you. I have consistently drawn a distinction betweeen individuals who are of your dual type and your dual as a concept. Of course you can dislike individuals of your dual type, just like you can like individuals of your conflictor type. It depends on the kind of interaction, circumstances, etc. I do think though, that everything else being equal, you're far more likely to like a dual person than a conflictor person.

And I do think that it makes no sense - no sense at all - for you to dislike your dual - unless you dislike all types - as a concept. Just like if makes no sense to dislike your own type as a concept.

If you type yourself as, say, ISFp, but you keep saying that "gee, ISFp as a type sucks, I wish I was an ENTj instead" - then, assuming that you do understand what the types are about, I think it's very unlikely that you are, indeed, ISFp.

And, if you type yourself as INFj, but at the same time say things like, "gee, why do I have to have ESTj as dual, I think ESTp is much cooler" - then, again assuming that you minimallly know those types, I think it's unlikely that you are INFj.

[aestrivex]

just one tidbit: i think it could make perfect sense to dislike one's own type as a concept in terms of "why do i suck so badly at my superid functions?" one might rather say "i wish i were my dual or activity" rather than "i wish i were my conflictor."

[implied]

I will correct you. I have consistently drawn a distinction betweeen individuals who are of your dual type and your dual as a concept.

then the issue would be in word choice, right? is eunice talking about bad ESTjs she's met? or ESTjs on the whole? i haven't been following any eunice type discussion *that* closely, but i do get the idea that her perception of ESTjs comes from individuals of the type. i also recall kim & anndelise thinking that people were getting too swept up in the idea that duality is some magic bullet and problem free.

Of course you can dislike individuals of your dual type, just like you can like individuals of your conflictor type. It depends on the kind of interaction, circumstances, etc. I do think though, that everything else being equal, you're far more likely to like a dual person than a conflictor person.

i agree with this. i didn't mean to imply that you should like your conflictor better than your dual (and i hope you caught this.) only that stating dissatisfaction doesn't mean you aren't your type.

And I do think that it makes no sense - no sense at all - for you to dislike your dual - unless you dislike all types - as a concept. Just like if makes no sense to dislike your own type as a concept.

i agree very much.

If you type yourself as, say, ISFp, but you keep saying that "gee, ISFp as a type sucks, I wish I was an ENTj instead" - then, assuming that you do understand what the types are about, I think it's very unlikely that you are, indeed, ISFp.

i generally agree with this. although one has to keep in mind that some types are more prone to self-criticism, too (again, this is something that i mean "within reason.") straight up saying, "ISFps really suck, and i can't possibly imagine being this type because bla bla bla." maybe that's something else.

And, if you type yourself as INFj, but at the same time say things like, "gee, why do I have to have ESTj as dual, I think ESTp is much cooler" - then, again assuming that you minimallly know those types, I think it's unlikely that you are INFj.

i don't know if she's ever stated this explicitly. i know that niffweed is of the opinion that she's probably IXFp but i'm not sure i see enough Fe to really buy it, either. we had a conversation about this that didn't really go anywhere, as i think some of his beta typings are a bit odd.