SLI-IEE duality discussion (ISTp and ENFp)

[xyz]

I probably just overanalyzed our interactions b/c I'm hypersensitive to awkwardness.

Maybe you should take more things at face value then. I mean, I know I always try to say what I mean. Maybe you're used to things being so damn complicated with everyone else. Really, it's ok. I think we WANT you to relax and not think about interactions so much eh?

[Mattie]

hah, I guess in that sense, yes. In every other aspect of life, I am the most uncomplicated, simple person you could ever meet... And so that's why when people throw in this sort of drama and complain about how i'm not caring enough or I'm too standoffish, it's much easier to say to hell with it and just leave and let them find someone else.

For the most part, I think the part that the NeFi talk about, or at least me, deals with what you mentioned. Despite all that's said, I *love* when I connect with an SiTe because I like them as a whole, and for the most part all that they do. I never really find SiTe to be standoffish to me, and I don't mind initiating socialization and whatnot as long as I know that the SiTe is available enough. And I think the rest of the NeFi here believe that as well, we like the quirks that come along with SiTe that others don't like, and can even find them charming. The honest deal breaker is when I get no response from an SiTe, and from what I can tell, is that point where they can't make up their mind or are unsure of wanting to make a commitment of sorts. I think NeFi are the opposite in that respect, I know that I'm quick to know what I want relationship-wise, or, knowledgeable of what possibilities I'd indulge in with each person. So what I think is the NeFi has to be a little more patient and thorough while the SiTe has to be more responsive and aware of the relationship. From my experiences, I feel like I've been patient but haven't gotten the responsiveness from the SiTe.

Maybe you should take more things at face value then. I mean, I know I always try to say what I mean. Maybe you're used to things being so damn complicated with everyone else. Really, it's ok. I think we WANT you to relax and not think about interactions so much eh?

This is very true, but it takes skill to make a NeFi not worry. I think egos are the only ones capable really, maybe even only the leads. I always am trying to put myself in other peoples' perceptives to imagine how they truely feel. I do feel like I've gotten to the stage where I just let go of anxieties and I can relax around SiTe because I don't have to overly think about their feelings. But, when the SiTe doesn't really indulge enough information, it's easy for me to think they are avoiding talking about relationship stuff when it needs to happen.

[xyz]

This is very true, but it takes skill to make a NeFi not worry. I think egos are the only ones capable really, maybe even only the leads. I always am trying to put myself in other peoples' perceptives to imagine how they truely feel. I do feel like I've gotten to the stage where I just let go of anxieties and I can relax around SiTe because I don't have to overly think about their feelings. But, when the SiTe doesn't really indulge enough information, it's easy for me to think they are avoiding talking about relationship stuff when it needs to happen.

Oh, just coax it outta us. It's no big deal really

[mikemex]

Weirdly, I know one of these ISTps told my friend I was cute a while back, so you think he would be somewhat friendly. But instead I get this extreme awkward vibe from him and he mostly avoids me. He acts fairly uptight and spend most of the BBQ yelling at the dog and finding more things to BBQ. However, the set up of the house and even the music they were playing was all very Si/Ne. At one point he was showing his new TV to us and the picture was really good. I said something like "wow, looks like we're there. Like we're following those guys down the hallway." and he laughed really loud. Then no one said anything for a long time. awkward....

The guy is timid. He probably liked you but felt extremely uncomfortable talking to you. A common coping technique for the anxiety is acting uptight ("serious") and focusing attention into something safe, such as a pet.

Shyness is a very disabling condition. I won't judge a shy person so sharply.

[meatburger]

Shyness is a very disabling condition. I won't judge a shy person so sharply.

I am quite fond of shy people. If i see one being all quiet i just want to talk to it. In some ways i get shy occasionally too, but i can just push it aside easily.

[iAnnAu]

The honest deal breaker is when I get no response from an SiTe, and from what I can tell, is that point where they can't make up their mind or are unsure of wanting to make a commitment of sorts. I think NeFi are the opposite in that respect, I know that I'm quick to know what I want relationship-wise, or, knowledgeable of what possibilities I'd indulge in with each person.

I just got a PM from another IEE who also said she pretty much knows what she wants (I think her statement was more about knowing what is or isn't going to work) in a relationship. At least for me, but likely for SLIs in general, this is NOT TRUE. We're going with the flow, and all of a sudden there's this possibility of a relationship, and that *could* be OK, but our ability to tell what it's gonna turn out to be, OK or not, is practically absent. So there's this whole period of allowing it to be tried out without too explicitly "trying it out" because that just feels contrived.

Under normal circumstances it's going to be less about timing in the sense of finding the right moment to say something as insinuating yourself into our schedule by suggesting activities that you would find fun anyway. We're fun lovers who take ourselves too seriously; we'll be relieved if you help us enjoy ourselves but not if you're too "Oooh, my friends told us this was crazy, let's do what they did!" Again, don't make us feel like anything has been contrived; I know since I said the word insinuate above that sounds contradictory but I just can't find a better suggestion.

So what I think is the NeFi has to be a little more patient and thorough while the SiTe has to be more responsive and aware of the relationship. From my experiences, I feel like I've been patient but haven't gotten the responsiveness from the SiTe.

I hate to say it 'cause there's just no way for me to know, but it's possible that even the lack of responsiveness is a positive sign. Clearly brushing you off is a response, right? Boy, saying that does not make me proud of my type ...
Mmmmmaybe a better way to explain it is by example: I was casually sexing this most-likely-SLI a few years back, and it wasn't until he moved away that I realized that so much went unspoken between us. I would show up at his house and come right in, and usually he'd be working on the house. I'd pitch in and for the most part that was what we were talking about: electrical wiring, insulation, old paint, window counterweights. I'd help him work on his motorcycles, too. Sometimes one of us bring up current events or music and we'd chat (in what's likely a heavily Te fashion) on that for a bit. Every now and then we'd bitch about our exes, but that was the only time relationships were ever mentioned. He was a cool dude, but him moving away was a smooth end to what was a non-progressing relationship. It was never going to go far, and that was fine by both of us without ever even being addressed. (I heard from him via email some months later, and we both admitted as much, which is the only reason I feel confident speaking for him about it.)
SLI-identicals: just too fuckin' comfortable ... even with all the fuckin'!

It takes skill to make a NeFi not worry. I think egos are the only ones capable really, maybe even only the leads. I always am trying to put myself in other peoples' perceptives to imagine how they truely feel... when the SiTe doesn't really indulge enough information, it's easy for me to think they are avoiding talking about relationship stuff when it needs to happen.

heh. yeah, we're kinda assholes when it comes to worryin'. Doesn't mean I don't get wound up just like any other human, but for the most part, eh. It'll work out.
I feel like this post may not be helpful, exactly ... unless a glimpse inside my head is at all illuminating when generalized ...

[jewels]

yeah I know some people are shy Mikemex. I'm not judging him. Just stating that he isn't friendly to me (that's a fact, not a judgement). I just thought it was interesting that a dual could be acting so very un-dual-like.

@iAnnAu -- your post makes a lot of sense. I think in general, there isn't so much of a "divide" between ISTp/ENFp communication and/or relationships as it may seem. I think when both people are looking for a serious relationship and really are right for each other, things click much easier and move along faster.

as far as the original topic, I think when one or both people don't know what they want, or one or both are fearful about having a relationship, things will move much slower.

I still really believe that an ISTp is going to take action and be fairly proactive when they're very interested in a certain outcome, even though that contradicts most of what I've read here.

I've dated ISTps who weren't sure what they wanted/scared of relationships because of divorce/etc, and they gave me mixed messages. However, I did date one who was super straightforward and I'm sure if I'd been interested he would have been totally cool w/ committing.

So I think a lot of this stuff isn't really so much type related. I do think, for instance, that when i meet the right ISTp he is going to be fairly bold about wanting to move things along, even if done in an more quiet ISTp-ish way, which is fine. I don't think ISTps dilly dally when they know what they want.

[eddikens]

Shyness is a very disabling condition. I won't judge a shy person so sharply.

Lol.

Shy people melt my heart and bring out the best in me.

[3RainbowSprinkles]

what are some relationship problems that arise in SLI/IEE dualities? How have have you guys overcome them?

[Mattie]

This topic is already being talked about in other threads for the most part, and some interesting stuff has been said. Check out some of the other threads in the Delta forum that have been updated recently.

And concerning the poll... Duality isn't on the check-list for me to date someone. Type isn't really a concern at giving a relationship a try at all, it just helps sort out interpersonal dynamics. It's possible within this month, I'll be dating either my dual or super-ego... They have their pluses and minuses, and their type isn't really included.

[Creepy-male]

Sorry for the threadjack, but that's an interesting perspective, ltts. With out-of-quadra peeps, I notice there's always some tension and something missing. It might be an Alpha thing, but I wouldn't want to go into a relationship with either of those things present. That also rules out even SEIs.

[meatburger]

Another SLI + IEE thread? I tend to make a few myself but im sure getting sick of this topic lol. I will just be myself SLI can deal with it. If they dont like it they can suck my dick (females only).

[Mattie]

Sorry for the threadjack, but that's an interesting perspective, ltts. With out-of-quadra peeps, I notice there's always some tension and something missing. It might be an Alpha thing, but I wouldn't want to go into a relationship with either of those things present. That also rules out even SEIs.

At least from how we interpret it, Socionics gives us a rather grim and negative outlook on interpersonal relations. There are some people who think they can only be happy with their dual, and there's been discussion that you'll actually have to find the dual of the correct subtype to actually hit it off. And, at least for the types concerned in this topic, even duality isn't sunshine and pixie dust. How can you limit yourself to just a couple of people? If there's someone who's attractive, respectful, and shares some interests or can have good conversation, those are much more important qualities than someone's type. I've met a lot of SiTe within the past few years, and most of them don't have anything in common with me. Sure, they might be attractive, but it's like pulling teeth trying to talk to those guys. A guy recently got in contact with me, and he's really energetic to get to know me, has a lot of common interest, wants to settle and have a long term relationship... But I'm pretty sure he's not my dual, and might be Beta. What proper reason can I give this person if they ask me out? "Sorry, but according to this type theory I found online, we're not really compatible." Whatever.

Another SLI + IEE thread? I tend to make a few myself but im sure getting sick of this topic lol. I will just be myself SLI can deal with it. If they dont like it they can suck my dick (females only).

You're right, I feel worn about talking about it, though I'm the one making a lot of ruckus. I think I've just had a really bad past few weeks and this board is definitely a place for catharsis for me. Fuck the ones who give me a hard time, and let the ones who like me for being me roll in.

[Creepy-male]

At least from how we interpret it, Socionics gives us a rather grim and negative outlook on interpersonal relations. There are some people who think they can only be happy with their dual, and there's been discussion that you'll actually have to find the dual of the correct subtype to actually hit it off. And, at least for the types concerned in this topic, even duality isn't sunshine and pixie dust. How can you limit yourself to just a couple of people? If there's someone who's attractive, respectful, and shares some interests or can have good conversation, those are much more important qualities than someone's type. I've met a lot of SiTe within the past few years, and most of them don't have anything in common with me. Sure, they might be attractive, but it's like pulling teeth trying to talk to those guys. A guy recently got in contact with me, and he's really energetic to get to know me, has a lot of common interest, wants to settle and have a long term relationship... But I'm pretty sure he's not my dual, and might be Beta. What proper reason can I give this person if they ask me out? "Sorry, but according to this type theory I found online, we're not really compatible." Whatever.

Well, you're The Reporter. But, having been caught in the fallout of my parents' relationship... I wouldn't want to subject myself, my partner, and our children to that. That's sort of my mission statement.

Fun is important, yes. Feeling good is paramount, of course; but if it has long-term ramifications? No. That's my Rational, Farsighted, highly idealistic bent, though. I know how hard it is to fight off being in love, and in practical terms, I'll completely forget this entire spiel at the drop of a hat

I guess it also helps that I've had only one negative experience with an LII, and that's water under the bridge now anyway. Perhaps that's the trick? Just stay positive.

[Mattie]

I like you.

Well, you're The Reporter.

What does that have to do with anything?

But, having been caught in the fallout of my parents' relationship... I wouldn't want to subject myself, my partner, and our children to that. That's sort of my mission statement.

We are all shaped by our past experiences, but you can't allow other peoples' mistakes to rule your life. I would have a slightly more forgiving perspective of using Socionics as a tool to help you find someone if it was an actual tested personality theory. And even then, imagine everyone who's basing their relationships off of MBTI. Everyone here might be snickering at that, but then there's others who see the same pitfalls in this community.

All in all, Socionics is not the tool for you discern who is right or wrong for you. Besides other factors of divorce, there are other ways you can insure a better chance of a survival for a relationship.

Fun is important, yes. Feeling good is paramount, of course; but if it has long-term ramifications? No. That's my Rational, Farsighted, highly idealistic bent, though. I know how hard it is to fight off being in love, and in practical terms, I'll completely forget this entire spiel at the drop of a hat

What you're saying here is that you're incapable of dealing with people different than you, therefore you have to rely on a hypothesis of someone else to sift through people, and even then, that's faulty because it relies on how well you type, which is uncertain since there's no real way to tell from our resources if people really know how to type, and then finding someone attractive and matching to all these other non-type related criteria.

Have faith in yourself! Don't absolve responsibility of who's right for you from yourself to Socionics. That's just past idealism and into ignorance.

I guess it also helps that I've had only one negative experience with an LII, and that's water under the bridge now anyway. Perhaps that's the trick? Just stay positive.

I'm probably one of the most positive people you'll meet. I've been through a lot of shit in my life and continue to be. It's not that I'm bitter about SiTe and think duality is a sham, it's that life is too short to be sitting at a computer trying to figure out my "dual" when I could be ignorant of this hypothesis and just be happy with whomever. I'm very glad I've learned and continue to experience Socionics, I just think some people are way too wrapped up in it that it becomes more of a detriment than a helpful tool.

[Creepy-male]

I'm sorry if I hit a nerve. It's good to let the stress out, though

What does that have to do with anything?

Well, unlike myself, The Bonvivant, you're going to approach relationships in a fundamentally different way.

I suppose as a Delta at least, your paradigm will allow for some "let's change for a brighter experience!", while on my end, any molding can only engender bitterness, suppression, and worse... distance.

It's not an attack. Largely, also, I think you'll be better able to tell how suited you are for someone else, as opposed to Gul, who falls in love first and regrets later

All in all, Socionics is not the tool for you discern who is right or wrong for you. Besides other factors of divorce, there are other ways you can insure a better chance of a survival for a relationship.

No, and I don't use it as such. However, socionics or not, especially with my friendship with Ishy, there's a certain element of tension and gaps that can't quite be filled up. Likewise, there's another class of zany, wickedly intelligent weirdos out there that I can interact fluidly and easily with, no matter what, and who naturally complement my weaknesses as I complement theirs. Socionics helps me systemize that and know who to look for (since I generally have issues with the whole "socializing" thing, having had a bit of a slow start (ie: no friends until three years ago)).

What you're saying here is that you're incapable of dealing with people different than you, therefore you have to rely on a hypothesis of someone else to sift through people, and even then, that's faulty because it relies on how well you type, which is uncertain since there's no real way to tell from our resources if people really know how to type, and then finding someone attractive and matching to all these other non-type related criteria.

Once I get past the type, which helps narrow down who to interact closely with (as I said above, I fall into the introverted end of the spectrum), Socionics can go die (even though I love talking about it, because it genuinely fascinates me, and genuinely irritates LIIs )

I appreciate the warning, though, and I do think it's sage advice

Do you know? I love Ishy a lot as a friend. She's an amazing, special person, and she means the world to me. I love her too, in a romantic way. If that side were reciprocated, naturally I'm programmed to be overjoyed. But... no. A relationship would be out. Do you know why? It goes back to what I said before: there's too much potential, imo, for both of us to walk out of it hurt; and, at the very least, not as happy as we could be.

As for people different than me... I can deal with them. But closely? If I or they would have to radically change? No. Absolutely not. And anyway, there's always a fine line between idealism and ignorance

I'm probably one of the most positive people you'll meet. I've been through a lot of shit in my life and continue to be. It's not that I'm bitter about SiTe and think duality is a sham, it's that life is too short to be sitting at a computer trying to figure out my "dual" when I could be ignorant of this hypothesis and just be happy with whomever. I'm very glad I've learned and continue to experience Socionics, I just think some people are way too wrapped up in it that it becomes more of a detriment than a helpful tool.

Don't let all the bad stuff get to you for too long. It's not possible to be the unbreakable juggernaut, and it almost sounds like you're reprimanding yourself by proxy through me. Self-pity is fine. Sadness is fine. Hopelessness is fine. You're a fool in my books if you don't let yourself feel these things. It only becomes a problem when you dwell on them, and wallow in them.

I really hope it does work out for you, though! Like I said--these are my opinions. I just wanted to share them, and it's definitely a good thing that you're letting it all out! You've made some good points, and it's been interesting hearing your angle (and please do continue!)

All the best

(P.S. ESE-LII: 2. IEE-SLI: 0)

[dattebayo]

Maybe you should take more things at face value then. I mean, I know I always try to say what I mean. Maybe you're used to things being so damn complicated with everyone else. Really, it's ok. I think we WANT you to relax and not think about interactions so much eh?

See this is why I like u SLI guys so much. Hanging with a SLI is like a breath of fresh air

As for the rest of the discussion I don’t really get it. With my SLI bf and me it was pretty straight forward. I mean, it’s not that there wasn’t the usual awkwardness of confessing stuff you don’t really feel comfortable admitting, but in general quite honest communication
Plus mutual attraction, mutual respect, mutual understanding... the keyword here seems to be mutual heh
The same straight forwardness apply to my two other SLI friendships. Starting up these were quite effortless, we just seemed to slide into a relation that seemed very real from the off.
Oh, as for initiation, I don’t think it really was an issue. I just saw a quiet individual, went over, talked a lot (OK initiation from my side then ) made them laugh, felt accepted and BANG SLI+IEE friendship formed. Never had to think of it really. The thought “hey this might be a SLI” never entered my mind until we knew each other pretty well. The attraction was more in the feeling of the interaction, quite relaxing for my part – and I never relax NEVER ha ha So whatever their type was I was always gonna be interested in getting to know them better or simply just hanging out with them

@ TinyDancer: could it be that you maybe are mistyping ppl? Ever since I found out of this socionics stuff I find myself trying to type ppl all the time LOL. I’m pretty bad at it, but still My point is, we tend to project our duals on others. Especially ppl we might be interested in. I know from myself that I am curious of every clearly introverted person I meet. But clearly not all introverted person I run into is my dual
So what I’m saying is maybe the SLI+IEE duality doesn’t have to be that difficult. Finding the right dual is the difficult thing. Cause obviously not all duals are a perfect romantic match. Ha come to think of it, as much as I love my SLI friend, I would never see us as anything other than exactly what we are, good friends ha ha just the thought of it makes me s****** LOLZ ha ha
OK what’s my point? Oh yeah It took me twenty something years to find my SLI but once I found him there really wasn’t any doubt. Before him I was prolly “the last minute escape artist” more than any of the SLIs mentioned in this thread ha ha

I am quite fond of shy people. If i see one being all quiet i just want to talk to it. In some ways i get shy occasionally too, but i can just push it aside easily.

Lol.

Shy people melt my heart and bring out the best in me.

yeah @ shy ppl

[UDP]

The truth of the matter is, it's just timing. He doesn't know whether he's interested in me or not b/c he barely knows me. Doesn't really surprise me that much, especially since it takes SLIs five times as long to make up their mind about someone. Maybe he'll decide otherwise in the future - who knows. At this point I'm just deciding whether to try and be friends with him and be willing to wind up miserable when he walks in with some girl he's actually attracted to. Worth it or not.. don't know..

This. Definitely this.

I can see this very much so.
I think some of it has to do with irrational relationship development... it tends to NOT go in a linear, steady pace. I think IEEs might feel awkward or responsible or frustrated because they feel like they have to be in charge of the forward progress and development. I can also see SLIs frustrated as, how they "feel about things" is very much momentary and not very long term... so it takes some trial and error or various experiences to "feel" a pattern, rather than just 'predict' one intuitively. I can't say I've seen this with SLIs, but the same irrational mechanism is very apparent in an SEI that I know - this sense of closeness and then stepping back, and then reconsidering how much value there is there, then proceeding again.

There's a very good animated GIF that always comes to mind, but I can't find lately. It might have been on Rick's site, and it shows rational relations being very linear in develompent -- there was a ball/figure trying to navigate obstacles, but it's strategy was to be very linear and go forward, but when it hit an obstacle, sidesteps it and continues going forward; this was the rational way. The irrational way was to be moving diagonally left and right but still going forward, as an effort to dodge the obstacles as they come by. The GIF probably makes more sense than me typing it here.

I think I does take sli's double or even triple the amount of time to make their minds up ...could I go so far as to say that sometimes their minds will never fully be made up about someone and how they feel? This has happened to me numerous times. So often I'll get into relationships and nothing is going anywhere...the spark died. Then they will leave and it's all clear to me how I feel about said person and desperatly want them back in my life but it's too late. Idont know why that happens with me...I guess I only know how much I really care about someone when theyre gone....and that sucks.

This reminded me of what I said above, about the GIF and about the nature of irraiontal relationship development. It seems really strange to me. And I don't understand, say, how Si dominants can just go back and forth like that. I think it might be the nature of being Si leading in some ways, which requires it to "feel first hand" some of the things that Ni would generally predict. I think Si people may only register things when it happens (I relate to this a little bit).

What some Si leadings, ime, have done is go through the motions, see a relationship fizzle out, get bored, do something else, and then come back to it - often times with an over enthusiasm, and then go through the fizzle down process again. It kind of reminds me of using a triple beam balance, you know, in chemistry or whatever, where you keep overestimating, but your range gets smaller and smaller until you find what the exact weight of the object is.

It seems really weird to me, as a person, and maybe especially as a rational person. But I guess it doesn't really 'make sense' to many people. All I do know is that, according to one Si leading at least, going through this process serves as evidence for them, and the more he went through it, the more likely his bond to said person would be stronger and stronger.

Even though I don't really like to hear this, it seems to be true. I'm the same, I need to hear any indication that I'm not wasting my time, and after a while I'll get impatient and fish for an answer somehow. And when I don't get a response to it (I don't think I really get rejection from SiTe, only complete unresponsiveness to which I'm learning doesn't necessarily mean rejection) my patience starts to drastically wane and I eventually move on. I feel like my lesson is either to stop thinking about and looking for relationships or gain the patience of a god.

: /

So, taking your reaction to mikemex's thread about SiTe being "simple," doesn't this make SiTe in general very complicated to deal with? Aren't the rather echoed troubles something for all of us to examine and flesh out? Sereno is right, everyone has this hunky-dory outlook on duality, that's it's all sunshine and happiness... But it's not, it's actually very disappointing and hurts when it doesn't work out, which is often!

I think that might be a 'cliched vibe' on the forum, but, it's definitely not reality. It's better that people are getting over it now, sooner the better; it gets people to see what socionics is and is not about. Good relationships require much much more than socionics, and hopefully some of these complaints will result in people realizing more of that stuff.

Like, really, in our brief chat yesterday, I have major doubts that the guy you're thinking about right now would actually be able to have a real, substantial, meaningful relationship with you - based on how he's treating other people/relationships at this time. Things like that are major factors, and being duals or knowing socionics can't affect that.

I kinda want to talk about the bad part because no one really does, I want to make it easier... Socionics doesn't supply an answer for this yet!

Gosh, every time I'm on here it's like I have a bone to pick lol

The bad part of what? Duality?
I don't think there is a 'good' or 'bad' part about duality. I think some things are easier, some things maybe not. But a lot of things are outside of socionics that people try to rationalize through socionics.... but they keep seeing how the problems manifest socionically and try to deal with them that way, rather than acknowledge the source, which is in the people themselves. (IMO) Mmm, yes. I might have to write more about this.

[3RainbowSprinkles]

Type isn't really a concern at giving a relationship a try at all, it just helps sort out interpersonal dynamics.

it can also help with keeping a relationship happy and healthy no? how does anyone actually use socionics to make their lives better and happier in terms of getting along with others?

I want to say hell yeah, duality, it can feel really good.

But I can't bring myself to do it. It's really hard and maybe sometimes you wonder if it's really worth it. It's just not as simple as multiple choice. Sorry.

i'm starting to feel you on that one. so what's the point of all this duality stuff anyway? here to get our hopes up to finding this "true love" and drop them down again? i guess...things that are the best of the best comes with the worst of the worst... :/ im so confused

[iAnnAu]

i'm starting to feel you on that one. so what's the point of all this duality stuff anyway? here to get our hopes up to finding this "true love" and drop them down again? i guess...things that are the best of the best comes with the worst of the worst... :/ im so confused

As you'll see on other threads percolating recently (and if you'll research the theories/read the articles), duality is NOT "true love" - duality is a combination of temperaments that tends to be able to interact in a way that is complementary. Real life is messy, and people get complicated, and if they come together expecting each other to "complete" them then it's likely no amount of supposed compatibility is going to make things work in the long term.

Complete yourself. Then allow yourself to see what the people around you offer in terms of attraction. Then try to understand how their temperament AND everything else that's happened along the way to them will shape how the two of you will be able to handle challenges. (OK, none of this will ever be a 100% certain, "well, I've figured this out and it isn't going to change, either" sorta thing. My point: APPROACH your life in this order; otherwise you're asking for what few complications you have the ability to avoid.)

[dattebayo]

I think that might be a 'cliched vibe' on the forum, but, it's definitely not reality. It's better that people are getting over it now, sooner the better; it gets people to see what socionics is and is not about. Good relationships require much much more than socionics, and hopefully some of these complaints will result in people realizing more of that stuff.

but it's still good.

I mean me and my SLI brother argue a lot and I can state for a fact that he is the number one most annoying person to me. He knows how to push my buttons like no other and sometimes does this at his will really annoying. Still I am very aware that he is one of the ppl I trust beyond any doubt and one of my most important ppl. Yeah so duality has it's annoying points but it's still up there among the best relationships

ime duals can misunderstand each other cuz of the NS FT differences, but they will never (or at least rarely) disappoint or hurt each other (unless deliberately) due to sharing of the same values.

Me and my ILI brother might get along great on the surface because we're both Ns but on big issues we really crash

duality

[xyz]

So... wait, how do our duals benefit us SLI's again?

[thePirate]

So... wait, how do our duals benefit us SLI's again?

not in many ways

other than, ya know, the whole deep sense of happiness thing

[Lobo]

I have sometimes wondered at the way SLIs sometimes disappear for a time when a relationship seems to be going smoothly, then expect their relationships to be unchanged when they return...

For someone else, it can seem like you guys disappear randomly just when you were getting close, and then re-appear, just as randomly, just as the other person was about to decide you might be gone for good. In cases where you do this, do you usually just disappear without warning, or what?

Good question.

[tiny_dancer]

Finally I had a real, normal, nice conversation with my super-intellectual-extra-feisty-madly-intimidating SLI friend.

I originally decided to try talking to him kind of as a socionics experiment, because he looks like he wouldn't give me the time of day. He's very sharp, irreverent, sarcastic, and crude, but also a grab-bag of contradictions. You'd expect him to have several tattoos, but he actually has several candles, is vegetarian, and doesn't drink (although he's done just about everything else in the past).

It took 2 years of just being "around" him in a general sense, and 1 year 2 months of the most hideously awkward friendship ever...humor train-wrecks, conversation silences... The last time we hung out I thought, "I am such an idiot for giving this another shot..." I have no idea why he kept talking to me.

And somewhere in the middle of a conversation about Indian food, Charlie Kaufman, and Chuck Norris the awkwardness just went *poof* and evaporated. Every last bit of it. wtf? We finally get each other. Amazing. I was ready to throw in the towel. Who knew that was going to happen?

So I think we might be good from here on out. WEIRD.

But that's a bit better for me. It took me 8 years to become friends with my SLI roommate, because I thought we had nothing in common. It wasn't until someone forced us to hang out one evening that I discovered that we get along shockingly well.

[Azeroffs]

Makes sense. Sometimes it's hard to get things going with a dual.

[Lobo]

Finally I had a real, normal, nice conversation with my super-intellectual-extra-feisty-madly-intimidating SLI friend.

I originally decided to try talking to him kind of as a socionics experiment, because he looks like he wouldn't give me the time of day. He's very sharp, irreverent, sarcastic, and crude, but also a grab-bag of contradictions. You'd expect him to have several tattoos, but he actually has several candles, is vegetarian, and doesn't drink (although he's done just about everything else in the past).

Uhm, things like this prove to me that I don't understand women, and how they like "bad boys."

[Creepy-male]

Uhm, things like this prove to me that I don't understand women, and how they like "bad boys."

Bitter much?

[Wrong Way Ticket]

Uhm, things like this prove to me that I don't understand women, and how they like "bad boys."

Generalisations aside. I don't think women like "bad boys" per se. Just confident men who know what they want. One common theme of "bad boys" is (perhaps false) confidence and taking what they want. YMMV

[Lobo]

Bitter much?

Not really, it's just that I don't get why women would be attracted to guys that can be irreverant, crude, and madly-intimidating, lol. There's something about bad guys that they find hot for some reason. I'm guessing it's the "he's bad, but under all of that he's sweet." Idk, I just see a douche bag .

[Lobo]

Generalisations aside. I don't think women like "bad boys" per se. Just confident men who know what they want. One common theme of "bad boys" is (perhaps false) confidence and taking what they want. YMMV

Yeah, that makes sense.

[tiny_dancer]

Well, I don't go for "bad boys"... I also have an EII friend I'd describe as sarcastic and crude too. Who isn't crude compared to a female IEE??? Srsly. Anyway, he doesn't use people, and he's not a womanizer. I'm not dating him - we just grab a cup of coffee and talk once in a while. If I didn't trust him or respect him, I wouldn't hang out with him. He's just really different from myself. SLIs are everything I'm not, and it's obvious. That can be intimidating. Believe it or not, I would say that I intimidated him too.

Anyway, I wanted to get to know him to learn about myself. I found it interesting to study my reactions while hanging out with him. It pushed my boundaries, which I like. As you get older you get locked into your social sphere, profession, friendships, whatever, and you slowly close yourself off to people you perceive as being "not like you." Is that true, or is it in your head? So I find it interesting to remove those boundaries and see what happens.

[xyz]

The trick is to not give a fuck about what women want.

[tiny_dancer]

Is this gonna turn into a When-Harry-Met-Sally-men-and-women-can't-be-friends thing? Stoooooop! Just to reiterate, I'm not dating, or trying to date him... we don't even live in the same city anymore. It was purely a 'get to know somebody new' thing.

[xyz]

Oh yeah, and never listen to em either.

[thePirate]

I concur

[jewels]

that's really cool Tiny Dancer! Yeah it is amazing how different other types are...I sort of assume everyone's like me (I guess everyone does that) and am always shocked to see how night and day others can be.

I also had some moments w/ my current SLI bf where I was quiet and thinking OMG, I totally don't know what to say...uh...and then he'd say something and I'd end up in this fascinating conversation w/ no idea how I got there.

I think as IEEs, we're used to sorta leading the conversation and knowing what to expect, but with SLIs you have no clue what they're going to say (or if they're even going to talk), so there is the element of surprise which is good, though I agree intimidating at first!

I also don't like bad boys...I don't think they attract infantiles. I think of ESTps being more bad boys (sometimes) and I just feel kinda bored with that image.

I think girls just like confidence, not jackasses. So a confident guy who isn't a wuss (has some opinions and backbone, some lines he doens't cross), who can notice what a girl wants to be happy and do that -- that's really what girls want. Not giving a F what she wants will only attract really low self esteem chicks.

[jessica129]

Every single guy i've ever been friends with has ended up asking me out in one way or another...even the one's who said 'we're just going to be friends'. Just sayin'

[xyz]

Not giving a F what she wants will only attract really low self esteem chicks.

Yah pretty much.

[Lobo]

Well, I don't go for "bad boys"... I also have an EII friend I'd describe as sarcastic and crude too. Who isn't crude compared to a female IEE??? Srsly. Anyway, he doesn't use people, and he's not a womanizer. I'm not dating him - we just grab a cup of coffee and talk once in a while. If I didn't trust him or respect him, I wouldn't hang out with him. He's just really different from myself. SLIs are everything I'm not, and it's obvious. That can be intimidating. Believe it or not, I would say that I intimidated him too.

Anyway, I wanted to get to know him to learn about myself. I found it interesting to study my reactions while hanging out with him. It pushed my boundaries, which I like. As you get older you get locked into your social sphere, profession, friendships, whatever, and you slowly close yourself off to people you perceive as being "not like you." Is that true, or is it in your head? So I find it interesting to remove those boundaries and see what happens.

Yeah, you are obviously not interested in dating him. You just want to understand him better, mhm.