SLI-IEE duality discussion (ISTp and ENFp)

[DirectorAbbie]

*depression*

Do chicks at least dig charming and supportive doormats?



Did Ryu hijack your account?

I like supportive doormats. The ones that let me fall through the floor are no good.

[Satan]

Every single guy i've ever been friends with has ended up asking me out in one way or another...even the one's who said 'we're just going to be friends'. Just sayin'

You haven't been friends with many guys have you.

[tiny_dancer]

Every single guy i've ever been friends with has ended up asking me out in one way or another...even the one's who said 'we're just going to be friends'. Just sayin'

I agree. You sayin' I should just keep being friends with him? Reel him in, so to speak?

Yeah, you are obviously not interested in dating him. You just want to understand him better, mhm.

Excellent use of the popcorn emoticon. Once upon a time I had a huge crush on him, but he shut that down. And... something else actually happened with someone else. So. You snooze, you lose. He can go find another IEE.

[Marie84]

Generalisations aside. I don't think women like "bad boys" per se. Just confident men who know what they want. One common theme of "bad boys" is (perhaps false) confidence and taking what they want. YMMV

I think some women are drawn to bad boys for the rebellious aspect, but you're right that it's primarily because of their air of confidence.
There's a difference between being a nice guy and a pushover, the latter is not appealing IMO

[jewels]

Yah pretty much.

LOL, well at least you know what you want!

[jewels]

*depression*

Do chicks at least dig charming and supportive doormats?

Yes, but let me clarify -- I think you're probably less doormat than you think....you don't have to be some macho rambo guy. You just have your boundaries for what you will/won't do and what you do/don't care about. It's about sticking to that, even if you really want this person to like you. You're not willing to sacrifice your values just to make her like you -- since you can't "make" anyone like you anyway.

For instance, if I asked you to kill a puppy for me, you wouldn't right? (hopefully!!) You might realize I might be pissed that you declined to do my mean evil probably illegal task for me. But you'd accept that as a risk, because your values are more important than me liking you.

So if you care about not killing puppies (or not being stood up for dates, or whatever your values are) you want to be sure that person is cool w/ that. And if their actions show they don't value what you do, adios. Or you ask them to please do it differently and see if they can change. "Please don't ask me to kill puppies for you." If they can't change, then it's over.

That's all we're talking about. The way that's presented doesn't matter (bad boy, charming supportive guy -- girls don't care). Girls pick up on the boundaries (and want them to be there) and respect the guys who have those.

The ones who don't come across like they'll do anything to make you like them -- even kill a puppy for you, which is kinda creepy -- are the ones who more girl are after. So just don't do that.

But it's not about making a fake list of boundaries, it's being clear on what actually does/doesn't matter to you and following that. And making sure she respects that. Most of this is unspoken but the chicks can tell.

[xyz]

LOL, well at least you know what you want!

BLAGH UGH ARG hell no. Those girls are more trouble than they're worth. I prefer normal girls, or at least girls who don't seriously secretly LOVE being abused/ignored/smacked around.

C'mon Jewels get with it!

[jewels]

BLAGH UGH ARG hell no. Those girls are more trouble than they're worth. I prefer normal girls, or at least girls who don't seriously secretly LOVE being abused/ignored/smacked around.

C'mon Jewels get with it!

I must have lost you somewhere in that exchange...

You said:The trick is to not give a fuck about what women want.

I said: Not giving a F what she wants will only attract really low self esteem chicks.

You said: Yah pretty much.

I said: LOL, well at least you know what you want!

My confusion -- So your trick is to attract girls you don't want? I must have totally misread that if that wasn't what you meant. Maybe you were just saying random things?

[Simon Ssmall]

I think his trick is to act normal and in no way different than he would with any other person. I wouldn't analyze too much .

[Lobo]

Loki is demonstrating how SLIs confuse IEEs with their short sentences. I'm sure this is purely educational.

[Satan]

I must have lost you somewhere in that exchange...

You said:The trick is to not give a fuck about what women want.

I said: Not giving a F what she wants will only attract really low self esteem chicks.

You said: Yah pretty much.

I said: LOL, well at least you know what you want!

My confusion -- So your trick is to attract girls you don't want? I must have totally misread that if that wasn't what you meant. Maybe you were just saying random things?

He was joking.

It's common knowledge that giving girls what they want satisifies them. But if you give in to peoples fake wanst then they're never really satisfied.

It's a way to take things not so seriously. Guys don't tend to give girls whta thye want unless they care what the other person wants.

[xyz]

I must have lost you somewhere in that exchange...

You said:The trick is to not give a fuck about what women want.

I said: Not giving a F what she wants will only attract really low self esteem chicks.

You said: Yah pretty much.

LOGIC JUMP

I said: LOL, well at least you know what you want!

My confusion -- So your trick is to attract girls you don't want? I must have totally misread that if that wasn't what you meant. Maybe you were just saying random things?

Just because I know the "trick", doesn't mean I want them. =]

[bobbybeam]

As you get older you get locked into your social sphere, profession, friendships, whatever, and you slowly close yourself off to people you perceive as being "not like you." Is that true, or is it in your head? So I find it interesting to remove those boundaries and see what happens.

So true! You must constantly keep growing as a person, introducing new concepts, new people, new places, or else you get stuck and then it's all down hill from there!!
The tendency is to stop growing, especially when you get older because you get more set in your ways-you know what you are comfortable w/ and what you are not...growing gets harder w/ age =/ booh!
just keep moving, i say-hopefully i remember this when i'm 40! :/

[tiny_dancer]

I'm glad at least the IEEs get me. Everyone else can think I'm nuts. It's typical.

[thePirate]

*depression*

Do chicks at least dig charming and supportive doormats?



Did Ryu hijack your account?

Dude, you're not a badguy.

And this advice can be misleading, when it comes to women, JERK is ALWAYS better then nice guy. If you're going to pick one end of the spectrum, go with asshole.

ALL GIRLS are INSECURE

So this whole attracting insecure girls business is abit silly.

Its not like 'oh this girls is insecure, oh this ones confident'

Girls are all mixes, and depending on who and how they are, your presence alone can make an effect to either raise or lower that

I would take a girl whose not that "secure" that I can work with over a girl whose slightly more confident yet meshes horribly with me.

[SenoritaC]

i am very happy to read here than SLI and IEE can be friends and maybe even be more in the future.

you must understand that SLI has different speed in relations than IEE, maybe that was cause of problem in the beginning. SLI is not willing to risk the self in an uncertain situation.

especially in the beginning of duality the SLI may put distance between himself and the IEE and then the IEE will fret over this because the IEE does not know what is happening here. does the SLI lose interest ,or is something wrong, or is there another person who has captured the SLI’s attention? or has it all been a farce? and then the IEE will worry because inside the IEE is very emotional but hides this from most people and almost certainly from the SLI, who might find it very offputting. so then the SLI does not even know how upset the IEE is about this distance.

but the SLI is not feeling its own strong emotions, maybe because SLI does not let himself feel them or because he cannot understand where they are coming from. and still SLI does not know how much the IEE worries and frets and even suffers at uncertainty of the relations.

and then maybe the IEE worries so much that it gets things confused and cuts the SLI out of their life, and will give no more chances to the SLI. and this is a shame because really SLI often wants to be with the IEE too but is slower in moving close and feeling comfrt with new person and new relations. but since SLI naturally avoids discomfort, with Si program function, it will try to go and find the IEE or reconnect when he realizes discomfort and its causes. but by then it may be too late and the IEE has gone away. at least here you can be friends, tinydancer and maybe more in the future beyond

[tiny_dancer]

Thank you, SenoritaC! That was very insightful. Yes, IEEs worry far too much when there's nothing to worry about.

[UDP]

The trick is to not give a fuck about what women want.

There is partial truth to that, in that such is generally somewhat more appealing or instinctually appealing than someone who over focuses on the woman all the time, which is what a lot of guys do. If you are not overfocusing on the woman, it gives her the chance to pursue you and wonder about you. Being a true asshole is one way to do that, but not a very good way, obviously.

I'm not advocating neglect or abuse. I'm suggesting that it's appealing if a woman knows you have something going on in your life, some priorities, things, to do. Especially if you don't seem desperate/needy (which is related to overfocusing/insecurity), are able to take care of yourself, and are generally respectful to people.

I could say more but I'll go into lecture mode.

[jewels]

There is partial truth to that, in that such is generally somewhat more appealing or instinctually appealing than someone who over focuses on the woman all the time, which is what a lot of guys do. If you are not overfocusing on the woman, it gives her the chance to pursue you and wonder about you. Being a true asshole is one way to do that, but not a very good way, obviously.

I'm not advocating neglect or abuse. I'm suggesting that it's appealing if a woman knows you have something going on in your life, some priorities, things, to do. Especially if you don't seem desperate/needy (which is related to overfocusing/insecurity), are able to take care of yourself, and are generally respectful to people.

I could say more but I'll go into lecture mode.

well said. Yeah I agree w/ that.

[SenoritaC]

Thank you, SenoritaC! That was very insightful. Yes, IEEs worry far too much when there's nothing to worry about.

you are welcome tiny-dancer, good luck to you and this SLI you procliam to not love :wink;

[Suz]

What does a male SLI do when interested in a girl?

And what can a quiet IEE do to make a move? (or do SLIs prefer making the move?)

[momoking]

SLI males will pass the IEE female that they are interested in and give her a look straight in the eye with this mental strongness. It's quite daring actually, and got me going for him. All this non-verbal flirting keeps me guessing, because I'd like some conversation going on between him and I, but I gave up because he would grunt and walk away. SLI males will act all distant and then prefer to flirt non-verbally. It drove me high with fuzzy feelings, and then I realized that he was doing this to several girls at once, so I managed albeit with some difficulty to avoid him. Hurt once by an SLI male, and still missing the said SLI with wistfulness. eghh

[Suz]

SLI males will pass the IEE female that they are interested in and give her a look straight in the eye with this mental strongness. It's quite daring actually, and got me going for him. All this non-verbal flirting keeps me guessing, because I'd like some conversation going on between him and I, but I gave up because he would grunt and walk away. SLI males will act all distant and then prefer to flirt non-verbally. It drove me high with fuzzy feelings, and then I realized that he was doing this to several girls at once, so I managed albeit with some difficulty to avoid him. Hurt once by an SLI male, and still missing the said SLI with wistfulness. eghh

hmmmmmmmm. . .YEP. pretty much describes the dynamic between this guy and me.

So will SLIs just flirt for fun with other females they're not interested in?

[Suz]

I mean, will SLIs "flirt" the conventional way w/ females he's not interested in? Like, say, to make the one he's intesrested in jealous or to make people want to do things for him and be friendly to him?

[jaZ]

SLIs are starting to sounds manly all the sudden with all this non-verbal flirting going about. I can confirm that I've had some instances of non-verbal flirting with the wall. Our non-verbal relationship has prompted me to type the wall as IEE.

Foreals; I cannot say that all SLIs feel likewise, however, I can say from experience that if I don't know feelings of interest are mutual I would not be willing to 'make the move', and I doubt that from appearance alone one can figure that either party is interested. I've also noticed that all the SLIEE* (witty, I know) relationships I've seen don't have any obvious move made.. Having things that you are both interested in for conversation matter is always appealing.

*For more awesome:
[introverted type][intuitive type]
[extroverted type][ethics type]

[jaZ]

I was sitting at a bar once, with my friends, and an ISTp/SLI guy comes to talk to me-he was studying to be an Anesthesiologist...so that pretty much says they will approach you; they value nice, sweet, kind, considerate, smart women. You don't have to be the most gorgeous, drop dead supermodel girl, but you have to have that special something that excites . Be nice to them, if you want them to talk to you, don't say any offensive jokes to hurt their feelings, compliment, compliment on their style, get them to smile back and they are hooked on to you.

If there's anything I like it's being complimented on my style. It is also essential that you're sufficiently sized in the right places to stimulate my . Do all this and I will stick my hook into you

[bobbybeam]

hahaha.
are SLI's players? do they tend to be very smooth, very sly? do they manipulate or are they just natural flirts?

[UDP]

hahaha.
are SLI's players? do they tend to be very smooth, very sly? do they manipulate or are they just natural flirts?

Depends on the person and experience and their general attitude towards women.

I've known a few around the spectrum. Generally speaking, they seem fairly stable/chill.

[jewels]

my SLI bf does throw out a flirty vibe to just about every girl he talks to. I'm guessing he doesn't know/or isn't aware that's what he's doing, and just likes people being friendly to him. He doesn't really say anything flirty, it's more in an eye contact/paying a lot of attention to them as they talk sort of thing. Though when drunk I have seen him sit really close to a girl, like on the arm of a chair she was sitting on and sorta lean in, and he seems to dance w/ them and stuff I think.

I think this leads many girls to think he likes them, but he says he only likes them as friends.

I can't say he did anything to show interest in me, beyond that standard eye contact/looking-like-he's-interested-in-what-I'm-talking-about thing he does to everyone. I only actually knew after he planned a "date" that had a time and a place and then suggested dinner.

Once another SLI met up w/ me at an event and then suggested dinner (which I declined as I wasn't into that one)...so I would guess suggesting a random dinner is a good sign. Though...I've seen him get random dinner w/ just female friends too...so hard to tell.

Though I think they get more giddy/smiley if they like you and will probably hang out with you for many hours at a time. Also they will compliment you also in the beginning (though they probably never will again once you're together w/ them).

They are capable of being bold though if they like you, and I prefer that. So I think it's better if they just get the guts to ask you out.

[Suz]

If there's anything I like it's being complimented on my style. It is also essential that you're sufficiently sized in the right places to stimulate my . Do all this and I will stick my hook into you

where do you like the size? cause i got some size in some places that i didn't realize did it for some guys :wink:

[Suz]

They are capable of being bold though if they like you, and I prefer that. So I think it's better if they just get the guts to ask you out.

OK good. cause that's how i prefer it too. Though I have told him (in an email) that i found him intriguing. I hope that didn't scare him off. He never responded to that.

[jaZ]

where do you like the size? cause i got some size in some places that i didn't realize did it for some guys :wink:

The ears. The ears must be enormous. Omnomnom...

Eh, heheh... I was just following Maritsa's example and poked fun at the idea that a socionic type could actually conform to that kind of generalization. Perhaps I should have made the hook analogy more obvious...

[Suz]

The ears. The ears must be enormous. Omnomnom...

Eh, heheh... I was just following Maritsa's example and poked fun at the idea that a socionic type could actually conform to that kind of generalization. Perhaps I should have made the hook analogy more obvious...

Oh sorry. . .can't provide the ears. . .

[bobbybeam]

my SLI bf does throw out a flirty vibe to just about every girl he talks to. I'm guessing he doesn't know/or isn't aware that's what he's doing, and just likes people being friendly to him. He doesn't really say anything flirty, it's more in an eye contact/paying a lot of attention to them as they talk sort of thing. Though when drunk I have seen him sit really close to a girl, like on the arm of a chair she was sitting on and sorta lean in, and he seems to dance w/ them and stuff I think.

I think this leads many girls to think he likes them, but he says he only likes them as friends.

I can't say he did anything to show interest in me, beyond that standard eye contact/looking-like-he's-interested-in-what-I'm-talking-about thing he does to everyone. I only actually knew after he planned a "date" that had a time and a place and then suggested dinner.

Once another SLI met up w/ me at an event and then suggested dinner (which I declined as I wasn't into that one)...so I would guess suggesting a random dinner is a good sign. Though...I've seen him get random dinner w/ just female friends too...so hard to tell.

Though I think they get more giddy/smiley if they like you and will probably hang out with you for many hours at a time. Also they will compliment you also in the beginning (though they probably never will again once you're together w/ them).

They are capable of being bold though if they like you, and I prefer that. So I think it's better if they just get the guts to ask you out.

ah! does this bother you? this whole, sitting really close to girls and talking to them? i am the jealous type, this would bother me initially, though i do think that a guy at my work might be SLI and for some odd reason it doesn't bother me when he does this "friendly flirting" w/ me and then goes and does it to someone else. it almost in a sense gives me a clean exit to leave and go do my own thing since i do not want to sit there as the third wheeler.

do you ever worry that he is going to cheat though, or since he is SLI and that type is the loyal type, there is no need for worry?

[Satan]

based upon the logic of this thread, if someone looks at me that must mean they want a relationship. fuck, i mean, how many times do people look at each other .. it happens all teh time. ..

[Suz]

based upon the logic of this thread, if someone looks at me that must mean they want a relationship. fuck, i mean, how many times do people look at each other .. it happens all teh time. ..

Apparently you aren't familiar with the SLI stare of passion.

[duality is cringe]

lol

[jewels]

ah! does this bother you? this whole, sitting really close to girls and talking to them? i am the jealous type, this would bother me initially, though i do think that a guy at my work might be SLI and for some odd reason it doesn't bother me when he does this "friendly flirting" w/ me and then goes and does it to someone else. it almost in a sense gives me a clean exit to leave and go do my own thing since i do not want to sit there as the third wheeler.

do you ever worry that he is going to cheat though, or since he is SLI and that type is the loyal type, there is no need for worry?

At times it has, especially in the beginning before we were "together." He agreed that if anyone physically touches him again, he'd pull them aside and say something. So I'm ok w/ that.

But mostly, he's unaware what he's doing -- I found that hard to believe at first, but seems like he's rather clueless what various thing "mean" -- or just thinks he's being friendly. Used to make me furious, but lately I've just felt those girls are rather pathetic...I notice when they're trying to get his attention, but don't care anymore...it's gotten kinda boring.

I really doubt he'd cheat, but if he did, I'd leave him, so wouldn't be much to analyze there.

But on the flip side he's not jealous at all. He's been totally cool w/ me going out dancing without him, having girls nights, etc. Usually my ex's would flip if I wanted to do that, so it's nice it works both ways. As long as I don't give out my number he doesn't care.

[bobbybeam]

yes, i have never been in a dual relationship before, but it must be kind of nice to not have to worry about him being jealous of you talking to other guys.

i hate worrying about it, but i do. maybe it is because i am so focused on not flirting w/ other guys or even having it appear like i am as to not offend my bf that when he does it to me i get so pissed off.

maybe SLI's relieve IEE's by not making it such a big deal.

[jewels]

yes, i have never been in a dual relationship before, but it must be kind of nice to not have to worry about him being jealous of you talking to other guys.

i hate worrying about it, but i do. maybe it is because i am so focused on not flirting w/ other guys or even having it appear like i am as to not offend my bf that when he does it to me i get so pissed off.

maybe SLI's relieve IEE's by not making it such a big deal.

yeah, that's exactly how I was before! Because most guys really DO care if you seem even a bit too friendly. It's really challenged a lot of my basic life assumptions, being with this guy. Our fights are rather funny. We fought for an hour once when I asked if I was "special" and he said "no, you're normal." He meant "normal" as a compliment. So yeah, that's why I think it's more that he's clueless vs. trying to do anything bad.

I really don't think all SLIs are very flirty though. I think most are pretty shy and loyal, so if anything IEEs would be the big flirts in comparison.

But one of my SLI female friends does still hit on guys when she drinks and I know she doesn't mean anything by it (and it really pisses off her INTp bf). So she tries not to, but I can tell she isn't thinking it means anything.

But these are all random thoughts, so take it all w/ many grains of salt.