SLI-IEE duality discussion (ISTp and ENFp)

[munenori2]

Whoa! Congrats!

[Beautiful sky]

LOL
I thought only Armenians did this...

Best and warmest of wishes to you.

[Cbelle]

I saw this on the PerC website! Congrats!! Sounds like a good way to do it. I hate weddings! lol

[Galen]

Congratulations Jewels, that's great to hear!

[xerx]

Have fun with your new Antelope.

[Suz]

we worked everything out and my ISTp and I got married

Wow! Awesome! Big congrats!! Now if that doesn't speak for duality...

I'm curious to hear how it all happened!!

[Gilly]

Have fun with your new Antelope.

lmao

[tiny_dancer]

Wow! How cool! Congrats!

[Krig the Viking]

I've always thought that eloping was way more romantic than the regular way. Congratulations!

[redbaron]

I agree-very romantic! Congrats Jewels!!!

[jewels]

thanks everyone! ya we worked everything out, and then decided to go to vegas first, and then later on at some point have some kind of regular-ish wedding for friends/family.

[discojoe]

You married an SLI? What is wrong with you?

[Galen]

You married an SLI? What is wrong with you?

Conflictor sex just doesn't do it for some people I guess.

[Creepy-]

Aw, that's pretty cool Congrats to you guys!

[humblepie]

congratulations. is there any chance you could give a detailed rundown of how your problems got resolved? i think it would be of great help to every IEE here who wants to make things work with their dual.

[eunice]

Wow, congrats Jewels! Great to know that there is a happy ending to it!

[redbaron]

Wow, congrats Jewels! Great to know that there is a happy ending to it!

oh it's not an ending. a wedding is only the beginning.

[Slacker]

Maritsa - the thread is asking about delta irrationals.

I'm IEE and I've been married to an SLI for 13 years this summer. It's very relaxing and comfortable and nice. We don't really fight, though he sometimes says things to provoke a response from me, but it doesn't go beyond that. We don't spend all of our time together - we each have plenty of space to do our own things. We kind of naturally fell into each being in charge of things we're strongest at. I was married for several years before I heard about Socionics, so I didn't need to have any knowledge about this to make it happen. I have no complaints.

[Reuben]

The IEE, with his characteristic insight, usually does not yield to the SLI’s tactical tricks, because the IEE sees clearly what stands past this smugness, but happily plays along since this is the component part of that intuitive-ethical game, in the process of which their dualization occurs.

So they are smart after all.

[Reuben]

The SLI will not miss the chance to demonstrate his knowledge in the most varied subjects, and preliminary preparation is not necessary for this. The SLI’s interests are actually suitably extensive, but he often has only surface knowledge of many things. Therefore each time when the SLI is allowed the opportunity to show he is an expert in a subject, he will take the opportunity almost without a moment's hesitation and without considering the sense (according to the principle, “what I see, I speak about.”) The absurdity of his own statements at times does not completely confuse him: the main thing for the SLI in this situation is to produce the impression of an “interesting” collocutor. This impression first of all is calculated for its dual the IEE, usually receiving person by such, to what it itself presents.

That's what octopus was calling me out for back then

[Eye of the Potato]

So they are smart after all.

Were you in doubt about this? Shame on you!

Do you have a link to where you found that passage?

[Suz]

yeah Reubs, where is this from? looks like a good article! Link us!

[Reuben]

Stratievskaya SLI Description: http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...atievskaya_SLI

I've always loved Vera Stratievskaya. She's ESI, a great Russian author of socionics type descriptions. Crisp, realistic, a touch of ironic humour.

Will learn Russian just to understand her original articles. Hey, I might date her one day too.

Some more quotes for those lazy to plow through the entire machine translation:

Until the end the SLI will try to appear restrained, calm, and in charge of the situation, with a calm smile, which he puts forth in order not to reveal his present experiences. Any attempt to break the SLI’s “armor” with intensive emotional action (that is, by hysterics and by scandals) is received by the SLI as the worst kind of monstrous act. And the SLI reacts to this respectively - by terrible emotional explosion, which is very draining to him and which he will later regret.

I'm pretty sure Aiss, Octopus, and Typhon has seen the result of this.

Sensual experiences are sacred for the SLI; he shows his feelings in this way. The SLI will usually prefer to appear detached, and this is how he will allow someone to reveal his true feelings.

If I'm quiet, it is not that I do not love you, but that I do not know if you love me.

Sensual pleasures expressed too much or too little relative to emotions are not pleasant for the SLI. It is very important that the emotional painting of the folding relations not interfere with the process of the perception of sensations. Therefore the emotional attitude of partner, and especially the quality of the emotions expressed by the partner, have exceptionally important significance for the SLI. In many instances the SLI takes on the role of the “traffic controller” of the emotions of his partner. For example: if it seems to the SLI that the partner is insufficiently emotional, he convinces him “to be freed” and not to be troubled with the expression of his feelings. But it is worthwhile only sometimes for the partner to express his emotions more frankly, and then the SLI has an insurmountable desire to cool those feelings, since this emotional flame seems too burdensome.

The SLI has methods for the “adjustment” of the emotional impulses of his partner - he first makes them burning hot, then it cools them. Sometimes this is done by the method of changing the psychological distance: the SLI first acts as if he is ceasing relations, and then as if nothing were the matter he renews them again. It does not come into the SLI’s mind that “regulating” the emotions of his partner in this way sometimes causes the partner to suffer very strongly. But most often the SLI uses this behavior to avoid stormy and unpleasant explanations of relations; as he sees it he is circumventing scandals and hysterics, which he tries to avoid; by regulating the feelings of his partner, the SLI seeks to find out his partner’s feelings without experiencing serious ethical troubles.

Fe is slaved to Si. We play with emotions, burning a great fire one moment, and pouring heaven's tears upon it the next. Only the IEE can sustain such emotional manipulation without breaking; their heart consists of the most flexible and precious metal - creative Fi. Or should I consider, that they are in reality manipulating us to give them a roller-coaster ride of their life...? We never know if we are the brilliant ones, or if the manipulated are really those who are in control. Which is really what this whole thread is about.

The demonstrative logic of the SLI is the most important element of the “ethical game,” in the process of which occurs its dualization with the IEE. In the same way we can explain the SLI’s tendency to produce a favorable impression as a logical person. To the SLI it is very important to never reveal his trick before the audience, since the IEE does not sympathize with those lost. Furthermore the SLI, subconsciously oriented to the surface and changeable interest of the IEE, knows that just as it is difficult draw the IEE’s attention, it will be difficult to hold it.

And it would be nevertheless erroneous to assert that always and in any case the demonstrative reasonableness of the SLI is only of its kind trick. Certainly not! There are indeed some aspects, which actually occupy their attention. And analyzing them, the SLI no longer pretends to be open. This relates, for example, to the region of the depictive skill, where almost no one can compare with SLIs in the skill to give the comparative analysis of color range or the composition of one or other artist or another.

Tricks up my sleeve Wawa.

This situation arises when a person appears next to the SLI who is psychologically incompatible with him. But since the SLI is subconsciously oriented to the flexible emotionalism of its dual the IEE, the SLI sees nothing wrong with adapting of partner under its emotional threshold. Receiving each partner as his dual, the SLI naturally assumes that any person is capable of adapting to his emotions without difficulty.

After multiple collisions with reality, the SLI begins to understand that he has been mistaken, and this is a painful thing to learn. Because of this disappointment the SLI prefers comfortable solitude to uncomfortable contact. And the theme of solitude that disturbs the SLI (just as it disturbs his dual the IEE) is the consequence of this. Disappointed and disillusioned, the SLI attempts to accept his solitude positively, trying to find it pleasant. (This quality is also characteristic of his dual the IEE.)

Hell does it hurt.

[Suz]

wow great article... I remember reading it before, but it takes on a whole new meaning with the parts you've pointed out.

This part also holds very true for me + SLI, from the Ti-demonstrative section:

Here precisely this significant irony is the element of the SLI’s ethical game. The SLI switches the listener to a completely different set of relations, forcing him to receive the logical reasonings of the SLI only as background or as occasion for drawing attention. And the IEE immediately understands this clearly: with his splendid ethical intuition, the IEE understands that the point of the conversation is not the matter that was discussed; for the SLI this is only an excuse to have contact and a method to draw attention to himself and to hold it.

In such cases, what can happen is, the real reason for talking might be expressed subtly via body language, and it seems that both of us read that body language too.

[Cyrano]

This entire profile is a crock. Don't read it! Don't believe it! I'm trying to remain restrained, calm, and in charge of the situation.

[Suz]

This entire profile is a crock. Don't read it! Don't believe it! I'm trying to remain restrained, calm, and in charge of the situation.

Are you being serious? or trying not to have your cover blown?

[Suz]

Sometimes the SLI feels like he's just worlds apart from the IEE, like he's just dirt, downtrodden, nothing at all. Nobody recognizes him, loves him, or notices him... and he believes that the IEE should treat him that way too because she's just too good. Like an angel (especially Fi-subtype lol).

Because he considers his inability to provide for her, to give her the world and all that she would desire (or he think she wants... not knowing that all she wants is him), he refuses to pursue the relationship... for her sake.

He does not know that he is her entire world, and that she really isn't an angel; she's just a curious soul searching for a precious gem not yet washed, cut, and shined...

This is really interesting, because another SLI here in the community actually said the same exact thing to me about why he doesn't pursue a relationship with a girl he thinks is IEE and is great and whom he finds really attractive. I forget exactly how he put it, but the gist of what he said was that he's not dateable because he doesn't have a good job, etc.

[HandiAce]

I have to say that as an IEE, I find the immediate appearance of cold dispassion that SLIs are associated with uninviting. I do like to add laughs and volume to some of my remarks and I feel like one with Fe-PoLR would find this annoying...

I think there must be an initial uninviting aspect of everyone's duel, but when sought through, potentially makes a great relationship. Likewise, there are some people you have immediate attraction to, but does not lead to the most satisfying relationship in the long term.

I guess I have yet to inspire an Fi super-id person to open up to me...

[Cerise Sauvage]

So, why should a ENFp get along with a ISTp? Since everything is different except the fact that there persevering, not judging.

and do ENFp's get along with ENFp's?

I'm just curious about this subject...

[Beautiful sky]

Because the Ne in you starts reading those hidden introverted thoughts of the Si; being introverts, ISTp sometimes don't express their feelings, their thoughts, they get short with people, overreact, and moody; they need you to figure things out that they are thinking, to express their senses, to find words and comfort them; you need them, too, to help you get you back in the real world Si; gets you to look at your own physical sensory world a little bit...

Your own physical sensory world, because we have that within us; where as the Se has an external sensory world that they use to help their lovely Ni duals enjoy.

[Codie]

I was thinking about the difference between conflict and duality today..one is strong in the things that attract you, and the other is strong in the things that repel you. Duals are easy to get a long with ime, but, duality isn't an easy relationship because it requires you to grow...to be more authentic.

[Galen]

Your signature is fucking huge.

[Trevor]

So, why should a ENFp get along with a ISTp? Since everything is different except the fact that there persevering, not judging.

Not everything but p/j is different. For example, their valued functions are not different.

[Beautiful sky]

Anyone can get along with any type, that is all dependent on maturity, common interests, common ground of people involved in relationships.

[HandiAce]

Your signature is fucking huge.

At least it isn't giving my page a side scroller. If it was, then I'd rage.

So, why should a ENFp get along with a ISTp? Since everything is different except the fact that there persevering, not judging.

In my experience, people with ISTp mannerisms I am not initially attracted to, but find more relation to in the long run if I choose to stay in contact with them. The thing is, every type has areas they are good in and areas they are weak in, but seek help with as a way of completing themselves. For instance, one of my weaknesses is indecisiveness and executive functioning. That means I often struggle with making goals for myself and sticking to them because I find the potential in the goals are not quite as interesting as something else that appears more interesting to me later.

Another problem area is knowing what I want for myself because that seems to change based on what I find interesting as opposed to what makes me most comfortable, especially in the long term. So there's a lack of grounding when it comes to trying to satisfy my own practical needs. I may experiment with all kinds of foods and lifestyles to improve my health, but don't have a grounding of what I truly need to sustain myself.

With that said, I want to pursue novel ways of living, but need help staying grounded so that I do not make myself miserable because I can't see discomfort coming until its too late...

do ENFp's get along with ENFp's?

I tend to get along with my own type quite well. In fact, most of the IEE females I see I'd hit pretty quickly

[Galen]

So, why should a ENFp get along with a ISTp? Since everything is different except the fact that there persevering, not judging.

Because the theory says so?

There's no one single, set-in-stone reason as to why two people should get along. If you want to stay solely in the realm of Socionics, then dual relations have the same IE values, meaning a better emotional/intellectual understanding of each other; but this only works as a general rule and by no means applies to all people of assumed duality.

and do ENFp's get along with ENFp's?

Same issue as above, although I find identicals get along for very different reasons than duals. In more intimate conversations there's this sense that neither party really has to explain everything about how they operate in order for the other side to really understand intuitively, But again, as mentioned above, things like social background, life goals, religion, etc all play as big a role (if not bigger) in determining who gets along with who and why.

And please, crop your signature down.

[Pa3s]

So, why should a ENFp get along with a ISTp? Since everything is different except the fact that there persevering, not judging.

Since nobody has said it, yet: it's the same for every dual relation of every type, not just ENFp/ISTp.
And to answer your original question: because Augusta sez so.

[Slacker]

So the theory is that they value the same things. The things I value and am strong in, my dual values but isn't strong in. The things I don't value and am weak at, my dual doesn't value and therefore doesn't expect of me, but is strong in and is able to deal with in the world. That kind of thing. So the thinking is that we appreciate what our dual is strong at and the way they naturaly live in the world, and they appreciate us in the same way.

[Anna1921]

I am watching this unfold, wondering what will happen. They do not know socionics, yet play their "roles" it seems to me. I wonder, how can they read each other? Especially how does the ENFp read the ISTp who is so mixed signal-y (it seems to me). Does that not drive the ENFp crazy?

[Park]

I do things for IEEs.