http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erwin_Rommel
I sense some Se.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erwin_Rommel
I sense some Se.
Perhaps LSI.
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
The introductory section is worth a read; gives some basic insight into him. Admirable person. The rest is all fact-based and simply elaborates on the first section using said facts, and so would provide no opinion of him, more just what he's done, where he's gone, who he's been around etc.
was he the nazi that liked playing with tanks?
He wasn't a Nazi. He wasn't even a fascist. Just a fantastic military commander.
It would have been more admirable for him to not wage war on behalf of Germany.
It would have been more admirable if there was not a war to fight in at all and when we do not have a choice as to where we are born, good people find themselves seemingly arbitrarily assigned to opposing sides. Virtue or admiration should not be devalued or valued by the side, but by the man and the life.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
ST, Beta > Delta. Thinking ISTj. Unfortunate way to go.
Moonlight will fall
Winter will end
Harvest will come
Your heart will mend
Alpha? Why Alpha? I thought excellent military commanders were, by definition, Se valuing.
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
There is no more point in saying that all excellent military commanders are by definition Se valuing than saying all intelligent people are by definition NT types. For example ESTjs would easily be excellent commanders. As do ESFjs. Even if they don't value Se. Any type can make an excellent military commander. Their style of leadership would just be very different. And their motivations for becoming a military commander would be different. E.g. an INTj wouldn't likely be a military commander because they want to conquer people for fun but for some deeper ideological reason.
So what would you propose he do? To what standards are you holding him here? Yes, he fought on behalf of Germany in World War 2, but war is war and I do not see why he should be vilified for fighting for the Germans anymore than Patton should somehow be praised for fighting for the Americans, although he had no real control over his nationality of birth or where the leaders of his nation points the guns of the military.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
Well, I don't know what was really going on through his head. If anywhere in the back of his mind he was having doubts about his actions and the path that Germany was taking, but went along with it out of a stoic sense of duty, then he was a murderer and should have either defected or killed himself (which he did, for other reasons). But if he actually believed he was doing the right thing, then he didn't do anything wrong.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
I just read the Wiki Article. Im getting all my information on him according to the wiki
He seemed like a man with honour. He wasn't a Nazi just a german. It states that he refused ******s orders to murder the jews and he treated his POW's very well. He also had respect for his adversaries and tried to wage a "war without hate". He buried one of the allied commanders with full millitary honours etc.
Im not very good at typing him though. Seems to possess Se i think. He seemed to be a very very agressive commander, and his sheer agressiveness supprised the hell out of the Allies and won him many victories. I felt quite sad reading about him,and that they left him to kill himself. When they came back and he was sobbing in the car. I can just imagine him sitting there.
Hilter considered him one of his most favourite generals until he was suspected to be plotting ******s death (probablly unlikely). Many people seem to think ****** was ENFj so i suppose ISTj would make some sense. He looks like an ISTj to me. I just talked to my ISTj dad about him and he has respect for him
Last edited by meatburger; 03-07-2008 at 10:17 PM.
ENFp (Unsure of Subtype)
"And the day came when the risk it took to remain closed in a bud became more painful than the risk it took to blossom." - Anaïs Nin
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
Any more immoral than separating the moral action "Because the first instance he knows he is doing something wrong, and only goes along with it out of a sense of duty, and in the second one he has no reservations at all and is totally convinced has the moral high ground"? And if you read in this authoritative biography HERE () about Rommel, you can see that his deeds in the war and "fighting for Germany/******" is not as clear cut of a distinction as seem to be trying to make.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
Moonlight will fall
Winter will end
Harvest will come
Your heart will mend
I just started reading his biography. I'm pretty sure he is an SLE.
Oh, and if anyone is interested, I think he is an 8w7 sp/sx or sx/sp. (Oh look, how convenient, Ezra is typing a brilliant commander as the same as him...)
...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.
INTp
Yeah. SLE works. And the enneagram proposal seems right, as well (maybe even 8w9?).
4w3-5w6-8w7
A big issue in typing an military commander is whether they excelled with strategy or tactics.
Strategy is concerned with long term plans, campaigns, and goals. Strategic warfare is concerned with having victories that lead a person closer to the plan, campaign objective, or goal. Sometimes a "Strategic Victory" is not always a "Tactical Victory". An example of this is a commander who can capture an weapons plant, helping secure a valuable strategic asset, but in the process he loses alot of men and weaponry himself, making it a tactical loss. Strategic warfare is the forte' of MBTI xNTx, especially xNTj types - or Kiersey "Rationals" or "Coordinator Rationals", this is why they type Eisenhower as an INTj because he masterplanned the entire normandy invasion and developed many far-out creative ideas to keep a solid supply line immediately after the invasion.
Tactics are more concerned with dealing the present situation in such a way to come out on top. Tactical warfare takes place on "the line" and is concerned with winning victories in the most immediate sense. It require less strict planning and more skill at practical adaptation. For this reason most MBTI and Kiersey people type brilliant tacticians as "xSTp" types or "Artisan" or more specifically "Operator Artisans" because of there good awarness/senses and their ability to adapt well to the present situation.
xSTj types or "Guardians" excell in logistics and training.
xNFx types are rare in the military and usually play a more "morale" based role.
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k so why I bothered to go through all of this is because I think rommel is an ISTp/j, at least in MBTI terms because he apparently excelled at tactics rather than strategy, plus he trained by the german military which at the time was heavily ISTj-valuing.
*The forum is filtering this word in the text, so it is written differently so people know who is being talked about.Originally Posted by Steven Pressfield, in Killing Rommel (2009), p. 7
Originally Posted by RommelThis quote was interesting to me because it sounded like something someone with repressed Te would say. He's representing an ideal of how people should be, but perfection is a hard thing to live up to; I can relate this to how I thought when I was younger.Originally Posted by Rommel
I really like this dude.
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Erwin_Rommel
I think he's SLE but subtype and not typical of his type. He was very well developed in his super-ego imo.
Famous SLI. Eschews the limelight, ultimate tactican, defies authority, leads by example, adaptable.
ISTp
SLI
Enneagram 5 with a side of wings.