Conflicting types: which types ENFps don't get along with?

[Cuddly McFluffles]

As for ENFPs being authoritative...I've never though of myself in that way. I don't order people to do things and I'm not power-hungry. But, I have had several guys tell me that they were worried I'd walk over them, which surprised me. The only thing I can figure is that because I want to feel free to act without others controlling me, I need control over my own life (which can look to others like I'm stubbournly refusing their attempts to tell me what to do). If people try to control me, then I do freak out and I guess I could look "authoritative" as I try my best to break free from that control. That is when I get pretty angry/decisive/like "you may not do this and this and this...blah blah." But still, overall it's not like an ESTJ or ENTJ would act or anything like that.

I can identify with this, also with the person that said ENFps need someone to stand up to them. Heh...I am refusing others' attempts to tell me what to do. Anyway...

I've been on both ends...sort of. I was the dominant one in one close friendship (we were very close to each other but not romantically involved), and he didn't complain, save once. Of course, that wasn't about the being whipped, per se. *shrugs* It was very natural for me; seemed to work very well. In a more recent friendship/short-term relationship, I was less the dominant one, but I still felt the need to assert my opinion here and there, and he did give way at certain times, even if he did feel the subject was petty. Honestly, I felt more at ease in the first one, because I didn't feel taken care of; his was unobtrusive and unnoticeable, while the latter's actions were obvious (making my breakfast and the like). That said, I didn't spend 3 months on campus with the former.

Not just any hierarchical models. Higher hierarchical models.

So you mean we like to be in authority but not under it.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

I don't like being told what to do, but there are ways of delivery to telling someone what to do. I could imagine an ENFp could tell people to do stuff, or maybe it would be more of a suggestion, so it would actually seem helpful rather than just pissing the other person/people off.

[tereg]

So you mean we like to be in authority but not under it.

I'm just the messenger...

Believe it or not, ISTPs are submissive to the authoritarian ENFP with the ENFP in a higher hierarchical level. You may think that being submissive means you are in a weaker position. Try not to think of it that way. ENFPs are not what they're cracked up to be, duality in relationships does not equate perfect.

In seriousness, what you said, Ryene carries merit. Though I probably exercise that in still malleable ways.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

I'm just the messenger...



In seriousness, what you said, Ryene carries merit. Though I probably exercise that in still malleable ways.

Yes, but we shoot the messenger in these parts.

re: bolded sentence: What?

[tereg]

re: bolded sentence: What?

I tried to carefully craft that sentence and failed. :-/

What I mean is, is even if I'm in a position of authority, I tend to be very willing to bend/malleable/receptive. I don't exert authority nearly as much as I could. Which is why I feel more uncomfortable the more authoritative responsibility I have.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

I tried to carefully craft that sentence and failed. :-/

What I mean is, is even if I'm in a position of authority, I tend to be very willing to bend/malleable/receptive. I don't exert authority nearly as much as I could. Which is why I feel more uncomfortable the more authoritative responsibility I have.

Ah. OK. Thanks. Does it have anything to do with wanting to be the nice guy?

[tereg]

Ah. OK. Thanks. Does it have anything to do with wanting to be the nice guy?

*sigh* Yes.

[xyz]

I think ENFps order us around without us feeling ordered around.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

*sigh* Yes.

Have you ever considered the role of evil advisor? You rule through a puppet, and no one suspects you until the end, when you reveal yourself amidst evil laughter. The job security is good.

[xyz]

Have you ever considered the role of evil advisor? You rule through a puppet, and no one suspects you until the end, when you reveal yourself amidst evil laughter. The job security is good.

How's the dental plan?

[Cuddly McFluffles]

How's the dental plan?

Perhaps you negotiate it with the overlord you manipulate. The death insurance stinks, though. By the time you go down, the rest has already gone to pot.

[tereg]

Have you ever considered the role of evil advisor? You rule through a puppet, and no one suspects you until the end, when you reveal yourself amidst evil laughter. The job security is good.

As a job? No. When I do this kind of puppet personality for people that know me well enough, they don't seem to get it.

Like this one time, some years back I was playing Mafia with some friends of mine. And I purposefully sabotaged the game by being a citizen that wanted the mafia to win (but I didn't tell anyone else I was doing that). Which isn't as easy as it sounds because you have to convince the citizens to execute someone you know isn't the mafia. And I was brilliant at it for that one game. At the time I thought it would have been funny, but I think I really upset some people that I had the *gasp* audacity to sabotage the game! I brought up Andy Kaufman... no one got it. I was embarassed.

And then people that don't know me I suddenly get the impression that they somehow anticipate me acting like that.

I dunno, it just doesn't feel right. I can do the role, but the response I get back from it isn't very receptive.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

As a job? No. When I do this kind of puppet personality for people that know me well enough, they don't seem to get it.

Like this one time, some years back I was playing Mafia with some friends of mine. And I purposefully sabotaged the game by being a citizen that wanted the mafia to win (but I didn't tell anyone else I was doing that). Which isn't as easy as it sounds because you have to convince the citizens to execute someone you know isn't the mafia. And I was brilliant at it for that one game. At the time I thought it would have been funny, but I think I really upset some people that I had the *gasp* audacity to sabotage the game! I brought up Andy Kaufman... no one got it. I was embarassed.

And then people that don't know me I suddenly get the impression that they somehow anticipate me acting like that.

I dunno, it just doesn't feel right. I can do the role, but the response I get back from it isn't very receptive.

*blinks* Andy Kaufman? Ah well. Yeah, the backlash can stink. On a different note, I watched your avatar. Very ENFp of you.

[xyz]

As a job? No. When I do this kind of puppet personality for people that know me well enough, they don't seem to get it.

Like this one time, some years back I was playing Mafia with some friends of mine. And I purposefully sabotaged the game by being a citizen that wanted the mafia to win (but I didn't tell anyone else I was doing that). Which isn't as easy as it sounds because you have to convince the citizens to execute someone you know isn't the mafia. And I was brilliant at it for that one game. At the time I thought it would have been funny, but I think I really upset some people that I had the *gasp* audacity to sabotage the game! I brought up Andy Kaufman... no one got it. I was embarassed.

And then people that don't know me I suddenly get the impression that they somehow anticipate me acting like that.

I dunno, it just doesn't feel right. I can do the role, but the response I get back from it isn't very receptive.

because people are dumb. and my buddy and I sometimes do that in mafia too. It's no fun if the mafia loses!

[Cuddly McFluffles]

because people are dumb. and my buddy and I sometimes do that in mafia too. It's no fun if the mafia loses!

*grins* We played that in Geometry one day. One guy was in the mafia and got killed...

[tereg]

*blinks* Andy Kaufman?

The fact that he does things that no one seems to get or understand. I was just trying to draw parallels. But that fell on deaf ears as well. They were actually slightly offended by what I was doing. That actually hurt me a lot.

Ah well. Yeah, the backlash can stink. On a different note, I watched your avatar. Very ENFp of you.

Thank you. They are from my YouTube creative video blogs.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

The fact that he does things that no one seems to get or understand. I was just trying to draw parallels. But that fell on deaf ears as well. They were actually slightly offended by what I was doing. That actually hurt me a lot.

I understand their being upset. I would be, too (but I'm a stickler for playing a game by the rules). However, being on this end of it, I find it amusing.

[xyz]

The first time through, I like playing the game by the rules just so I can know the rules.

When boredom sets in that's when you mess with em

[tereg]

I understand their being upset. I would be, too (but I'm a stickler for playing a game by the rules). However, being on this end of it, I find it amusing.

Yeah, I mean, I understand why they were upset, honestly. But I mean, I dunno. I wasn't expecting that response when I thought it up, and when they had the response and I understood what they were saying, I felt really bad about it.

It's that kind of stuff that generally makes me feel like I should fall in line and not do unorthodox things. If that's the kind of response I get and how I feel after that kind of response, I'd rather not execute some of the things I come up with.

[tereg]

The first time through, I like playing the game by the rules just so I can know the rules.

When boredom sets in that's when you mess with em

Yeah, we had played like 1 or 2 games of Mafia BEFORE that one (by the rules). And so I thought it would have been funny to mix it up a little bit and surprise them all.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

Yeah, we had played like 1 or 2 games of Mafia BEFORE that one (by the rules). And so I thought it would have been funny to mix it up a little bit and surprise them all.

*nods* My family helps each other out in Mille Bournes, and it frustrates me. What is the point?

[schrödinger's cat]

Yeah, I mean, I understand why they were upset, honestly. But I mean, I dunno. I wasn't expecting that response when I thought it up, and when they had the response and I understood what they were saying, I felt really bad about it.

It's that kind of stuff that generally makes me feel like I should fall in line and not do unorthodox things. If that's the kind of response I get and how I feel after that kind of response, I'd rather not execute some of the things I come up with.

Oh, been there. My fullest sympathy. This awful moment where you go "...whoops..." and vow to become normal and to never, never do anything unusual again... Just THINKING about it hurts. Sometimes I look back on my teenage years and they're a long daisychain made of embarassing incidents. One after the other. Now I wonder if I weren't just too attuned to other people's responses. I mean, other people in tereg's position would have just laughed and said "...they didn't get the joke, what's wrong with them?" (Not that this is the right reaction; it's just a different one.)

I still remember how good it was to start dating my ISTp. He's really the perfect audience for unorthodox behaviour. It's such a relief to do something OTT and have an ISTp react to it. It's as if they suddenly come to life. (They're on stand-by so often.)

[Cuddly McFluffles]

I still remember how good it was to start dating my ISTp. He's really the perfect audience for unorthodox behaviour.

*wants an ISTp now* Maybe.

[enfpgirl]

ENFp's hate dream killers and nay sayers.

That is 110% TRUE!!! Nicely said.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

This is ironic, considering that we are said to be negativists.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

This is ironic, considering that we are said to be negativists.

If that is true, then maybe the 'positivism' of the ISTp encourages you to pursue such activities. That seems to make ENFp's happy, and I like it too. So it's all ok

[Cuddly McFluffles]

If that is true, then maybe the 'positivism' of the ISTp encourages you to pursue such activities. That seems to make ENFp's happy, and I like it too. So it's all ok

Perhaps. It's just amusing for people to say that we hate dream-killers when techinically, we are negativists/pessimists in the first place.

[xyz]

*wants an ISTp now* Maybe.

You didn't know this about us? You can do the most bizzare shit in front of me and i'd probably just chuckle.

Unless it's stepping on cats. Then i'd eat you.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

You didn't know this about us? You can do the most bizzare shit in front of me and i'd probably just chuckle.

Unless it's stepping on cats. Then i'd eat you.

because she might be cat flavoured?

[JuJu]

Perhaps. It's just amusing for people to say that we hate dream-killers when techinically, we are negativists/pessimists in the first place.

I hear what you're saying--I want to make sure that I understand this concept correctly, and I very well might not... Could you whomever's reading this and understands this help me out here?

Negativism in socionics means perceiving and emphasizing what's lacking rather than what is there... It does not mean being 'negative' in the way that we normally use the word.

For example: a posivist and a negativist finish watching a movie: (one priest and rabbi walk into a bar, and... sorry,) and someone asks, "what did you think of the movie?

The positisist answers: "it was good--the lead actress was great in that role."

The negativist answers: "yeah, it was good--but it would have been better if there were more explosions."

I'm an ENFp and I hate dream killers--but sometimes I do wish that there were more explosions...

[JuJu]

You didn't know this about us? You can do the most bizzare shit in front of me and i'd probably just chuckle.

Unless it's stepping on cats. Then i'd eat you.

Damn right LokiV, if anyone messes with cats... There's gonna be trouble.

[tereg]

For example: a posivist and a negativist finish watching a movie: (one priest and rabbi walk into a bar, and... sorry,) and someone asks, "what did you think of the movie?

The positisist answers: "it was good--the lead actress was great in that role."

The negativist answers: "yeah, it was good--but it would have been better if there were more explosions."

I'm an ENFp and I hate dream killers--but sometimes I do wish that there were more explosions...

For the record and off-topic, I don't like being asked this question right after watching a movie. It doesn't annoy me a lot, but it does slightly annoy me. Especially after a movie that I thought was really good. Oh, awesome, now I have to come back down to earth and actually EXPLAIN why I liked the movie, which I can't even give the explanation justice a majority of the time. Buzzkill.

And it's not one of those things that you can step around either. You know that someone is going to ask the question (unless I am watching the movie alone). It's inevitable. And not answering the question just looks standoff-ish.

"I thought it was good. I liked it."

Edit: Why is that? Maybe I don't want to give my take after EVERY freaking movie I see in theatres. Maybe I don't really feel like talking about the movie and I just want to sit and ponder themes and lessons about the movie. Maybe just once I don't want to answer a basic question like that. Yeah, you're just asking. I get it.

It just... bothers me sometimes.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

You didn't know this about us? You can do the most bizzare shit in front of me and i'd probably just chuckle.

Unless it's stepping on cats. Then i'd eat you.

Cool.

You'll never get the chance. **owner of a very spoiled and possessive cat**

I hear what you're saying--I want to make sure that I understand this concept correctly, and I very well might not... Could you whomever's reading this and understands this help me out here?

Negativism in socionics means perceiving and emphasizing what's lacking rather than what is there... It does not mean being 'negative' in the way that we normally use the word.

For example: a posivist and a negativist finish watching a movie: (one priest and rabbi walk into a bar, and... sorry,) and someone asks, "what did you think of the movie?

The positisist answers: "it was good--the lead actress was great in that role."

The negativist answers: "yeah, it was good--but it would have been better if there were more explosions."

I'm an ENFp and I hate dream killers--but sometimes I do wish that there were more explosions...

That's what pessimists are, too. *shrugs* I see "dream-killing" as bringing someone down to earth, telling them what's wrong or what could go wrong with their plan. I view that as realistic, not mean, and I hope I don't do it just to be mean.