ISTp-ENFp duality and implicit perception of emotional needs

[idolatrie]

they let you be youself--you don't have to act for them... They accept you as you are... They're not demanding at all--the opposite. They're usually very curious about things too, so there's always stuff to do or talk about.

That does seem to describe how my IEE friend is around her duals. She comes up with zany little comments all the time and they just don't blink, and roll with whatever she says. They also don't make a big deal out of it, like call attention to it being a joke, but rather 'accept' the reality of it and play it deadpan. Umm, maybe I'm explaining this badly. I'll try to give an example.

We were both at the graduation celebration of an SLI friend of ours, and he was being all grumpy about having to deal with the 'event' of it all and his parents incessent need to take photos. My IEE friend says something like you only get two graduations (combined degrees) in your life, and when you're 80, you should be able to look back on it well.
SLI: I don't plan to live to 80
IEE: Don't tell me you plan to die at 36, that's such a cliche
SLI: Nah, somewhere between 40 and 50
IEE: But then your children will not have you around right when they go into their teens - imagine the drugs and ...drinking they will fall into
SLI: Oh, I'll train them well early on so that won't happen

And they said all of that in a light, normal tone. Meanwhile I'm going next to them because I don't like talking about people dying? Like, I *knew* it was all a joke, but um, I have this basic belief that people are talking about things they mean all the time, so I was all

When I have those kind of exchanges with the IEE, we tend to build on what each other says, until it gets more and more dramatic and collapses under the ridiculousness of it all. But the IEE and SLI seemingly could go on indefinitely.

It happens frequently too. Another time we were at lunch with a(nother) SLI and SEI. The IEE made some comment about something someone told her about monkey brains, and the practices people engage in while eating it. I immediately chimed in about seeing monkey brains in the grocery store, and then the SLI jumped in with this elaborate explanation of a family practice of his that basically validated the seemingly outlandish original statement of the IEE. The words he was saying were clearly taking the piss, but he said it completely deadpan and very convincingly, and all three of us were presenting it as if we were having a serious discussion and all the mirth was very much kept below the surface, though easy to recognise in each other. The SEI was completely lost and had no idea what we were all on about.

I've never seen a SLI sort of cut my IEE friend off because they are uninterested in what she's saying. I mean, yeah, she is a very interesting lady. But more than that, they do always seem genuinely interested - in person. And SLIs react to her very differently to the way they react to me, and to others as far as I know. They seem...lit up and brought out of their brusque exterior with her, playful and willing to joke.

I think it's cute. Really really cute.

[meatburger]

SLI: I don't plan to live to 80
IEE: Don't tell me you plan to die at 36, that's such a cliche
SLI: Nah, somewhere between 40 and 50
IEE: But then your children will not have you around right when they go into their teens - imagine the drugs and ...drinking they will fall into
SLI: Oh, I'll train them well early on so that won't happen

I shit you not my ISTp friend has said exactly the same thing to me. Hes told me more than once that he can see himself dying early (he can feel it). All i can say is that i think hes nuts. Unless ISTp's have some innate death sense that ive never heard of?? What is with that, like weak Ni or something lol.

[xyz]

I shit you not my ISTp friend has said exactly the same thing to me. Hes told me more than once that he can see himself dying early (he can feel it). All i can say is that i think hes nuts. Unless ISTp's have some innate death sense that ive never heard of?? What is with that, like weak Ni or something lol.

Prolly, I dunno. I'm frankly still surprised i'm alive.

[jessica129]

Ha. I get the feeling i'll be around a lonnng time.

[tereg]

I shit you not my ISTp friend has said exactly the same thing to me. Hes told me more than once that he can see himself dying early (he can feel it).

I'll be honest, I have this same "sense" for myself. I don't really know how to explain it, and it's not that I want to die early... it's just... it's just a weird kind of hunch that I get that my life will somehow end tragically.

[Chocolate]

My dad is SLI and quite often when he sees me holding for example cup of chocolate and going to zap it, he stops me whith smile and nodding and does it by himself. I'm definately too much scatterbrained . It's just a simple example, but everyone else always warn me with sharp tone not to spill all that stuff.

I'll be honest, I have this same "sense" for myself. I don't really know how to explain it, and it's not that I want to die early... it's just... it's just a weird kind of hunch that I get that my life will somehow end tragically.

I have the same feeling and this doesn't make me upset. It just exists.
But when I cross the street thinking of death, I sometimes feel really odd .

[Christy B]

I shit you not my ISTp friend has said exactly the same thing to me. Hes told me more than once that he can see himself dying early (he can feel it). All i can say is that i think hes nuts. Unless ISTp's have some innate death sense that ive never heard of?? What is with that, like weak Ni or something lol.

SLI I dated thought he was going to die early too. Doesn't actually want to live to be old either because bodies kind of fall apart. He finds old people repulsive and didn't want to be one.

I love old people

[jessica129]

Doesn't actually want to live to be old either because bodies kind of fall apart. He finds old people repulsive and didn't want to be one.

I'm the same. I was a caretaker for seniors for some time and it really depressed me. The whole steady decline, reliance upon others and meaninglessness of life makes me not want to live to that age. But I don't think i'll ever get to that point. I would hate to be a burden to people. The day I have to start wearing diapers, someone has my permission to off me.

[Lotus]

I'm the same. I was a caretaker for seniors for some time and it really depressed me. The whole steady decline, reliance upon others and meaninglessness of life makes me not want to live to that age. But I don't think i'll ever get to that point. I would hate to be a burden to people. The day I have to start wearing diapers, someone has my permission to off me.

Ugh, I feel the same way.

[meatburger]

Ugh, I feel the same way.

Im gonna shit everywhere and be spoon fed by people making airplane noises till im 110 i hope. I will try to take care of myself if i can. Its worth it to see what type of new technologies and discoveries they make.

[Christy B]

Im gonna shit everywhere and be spoon fed by people making airplane noises till im 110 i hope.

!!!!

[pianosinger]

That does seem to describe how my IEE friend is around her duals. She comes up with zany little comments all the time and they just don't blink, and roll with whatever she says. They also don't make a big deal out of it, like call attention to it being a joke, but rather 'accept' the reality of it and play it deadpan. Umm, maybe I'm explaining this badly. I'll try to give an example.

This is so me! No one seems to understand my sense of humor! My FIL has kind of an odd sense of humor, which I like; I get his jokes, but instead of instantly laughing I will play along like it's serious, trying to joke along and I just get this look from him like, "I was making a joke, you didn't get it!"

[mikemex]

Hes told me more than once that he can see himself dying early (he can feel it).

I've heard that from my SEI friend too.

[meatburger]

wow? Ok so its not type related (not like i really thought it was with any conviction). Occording to me anyway, this feeling is illogical so i ignore it. I must admit i dont relish the idea of being old but i will do so gracefully im sure. I do have a strong sense that all humans are teetering on the brink of death, it just takes one small occurance and BAM your dead. Ive just accepted that i cant really control that tho and we will see what happens. I dont really have any sense of my own death though, i just hope its later rather than sooner!

@ Chocolate haha i like your avatar and name its just very cute.

[Chocolate]

I'm the same. I was a caretaker for seniors for some time and it really depressed me. The whole steady decline, reliance upon others and meaninglessness of life makes me not want to live to that age. But I don't think i'll ever get to that point. I would hate to be a burden to people. The day I have to start wearing diapers, someone has my permission to off me.

The same here. I would like to be a crazy granny like my ESFp grandma, if I had a possibility to choice my late years. She drives a car 100km/h, travels a lot, paints pictures and goes to parties with her friends. This prospect is quite optimistic barring age limit.

@ Chocolate haha i like your avatar and name its just very cute.

Thanks . I can say that this name is my substance . My family says I don't eat properly, but I love eating chocolate too much hahah.

[tiny_dancer]

Wow. I'm glad I don't have these intuitions. I'm going to be an old person like my ENFp grandmother. I have no idea how old she really is because she's so full of life and she relates really well with us grandkids. (Yeah, if I really wanted to know I'd just look up her b-day somewhere.)

[reyn_til_runa]

or it could just be that all SLIs are buddhists.

seriously, i don't see what's so hard to understand about not wanting to be too attached to a life/world that could end at any moment.

"attachment is the root of all suffering...."

there's nothing morbid or anti-Ni about it. it just is.

[humblepie]

I shit you not my ISTp friend has said exactly the same thing to me. Hes told me more than once that he can see himself dying early (he can feel it). All i can say is that i think hes nuts. Unless ISTp's have some innate death sense that ive never heard of?? What is with that, like weak Ni or something lol.

that would be just TYPICAL! put us through torture for years, then when we finally get you to open up and things start going good you up and die on us! bloody typical! nature is such a whore-bitch i wouldn't be surprised!

[applejacks]

that would be just TYPICAL! put us through torture for years, then when we finally get you to open up and things start going good you up and die on us! bloody typical! nature is such a whore-bitch i wouldn't be surprised!

Holy shit! My husband MUST be ISTp! SAME thing! He tells me all the time that he's going to die young, and that he's always known. He's too afraid to check his blood pressure, because he seems to think it's always high, and he truly doesn't see himself living past 60.

(Again, sorry- I'm reviving these really old posts, but I just got married and I'm trying to make sense of it all! And apparently I only have 30 years left with this man!)

[DaftPunk]

Holy shit! My husband MUST be ISTp! SAME thing! He tells me all the time that he's going to die young, and that he's always known. He's too afraid to check his blood pressure, because he seems to think it's always high, and he truly doesn't see himself living past 60.

(Again, sorry- I'm reviving these really old posts, but I just got married and I'm trying to make sense of it all! And apparently I only have 30 years left with this man!)

being a health worry nut doesn't correlate with si ego

Edit: It can hapen that people think that their hidden agenda is their leading function. You seem to be very springy (but in pleasent way) and I think you really might be ESE

[Suz]

being a health worry nut doesn't correlate with si ego

Edit: It can hapen that people think that their hidden agenda is their leading function. You seem to be very springy (but in pleasent way) and I think you really might be ESE

I was actually thinking similarly. For example:

I would show up for a date dressed to the NINES. I'm talking hair done professionally, form fitting dress, high heels, tasteful perfume, turning heads as I walk to him...

That does not seem IEE-ish at all. IEE dont understand perfume, and stereotypically dont know what to do with their hair. Also high heels are the epitome of uncomfortable, and i dont think an IEE would be one to trade comfort for being dressed to kill.

I dont know about strictly calling you ESE, but I would peg you as someone fairly competent with Se and Si. And also extravert. So consider SEE, ESE, SLE, LSE.

If you see Ne in a positive light, you may VALUE Ne, in which case you might be ESE or LSE. But Ne egos tend to have trouble with looking sharp, even when they want to. They also tend to not be aware of people's heads turning.

oh and yeah @Daft21, ime EIIs and LIIs are the HORRIBLE health nuts. the Si-HA's go wayyy overboard with the hypochondria and reaction to it... Si egos tend to automatically take care of their health without a big to-do about it, especially SLIs who are Mr. & Ms. Practicals (LSEs too for that matter). LSEs though tend to overdo the workaholism, imo.

[applejacks]

I was actually thinking similarly. For example:



That does not seem IEE-ish at all. IEE dont understand perfume, and stereotypically dont know what to do with their hair. Also high heels are the epitome of uncomfortable, and i dont think an IEE would be one to trade comfort for being dressed to kill.

I dont know about strictly calling you ESE, but I would peg you as someone fairly competent with Se and Si. And also extravert. So consider SEE, ESE, SLE, LSE.

If you see Ne in a positive light, you may VALUE Ne, in which case you might be ESE or LSE. But Ne egos tend to have trouble with looking sharp, even when they want to. They also tend to not be aware of people's heads turning.

oh and yeah @Daft21, ime EIIs and LIIs are the HORRIBLE health nuts. the Si-HA's go wayyy overboard with the hypochondria and reaction to it... Si egos tend to automatically take care of their health without a big to-do about it, especially SLIs who are Mr. & Ms. Practicals (LSEs too for that matter). LSEs though tend to overdo the workaholism, imo.

But can you really go so far as to say that an IEE can't wear perfume or a dress? Truth be told, I try my hardest to make my outfits match or look decent, but they never seem to gel. Nor do my socks EVER match. But it's not all that hard to pick a dress. When you start adding additional items, it gets a little complicated for me. That, and I'm usually unkempt and happy about it, until my self-esteem starts to suffer, and I realize I need to step up my game.

ESE.. IEE.. I guess it'd be hard to tell over text either way. I need a personal interview! Tinychat broadcast intervention!

[anndelise]

That does not seem IEE-ish at all. IEE dont understand perfume, and stereotypically dont know what to do with their hair. Also high heels are the epitome of uncomfortable, and i dont think an IEE would be one to trade comfort for being dressed to kill.

I dont know about strictly calling you ESE, but I would peg you as someone fairly competent with Se and Si. And also extravert. So consider SEE, ESE, SLE, LSE.

If you see Ne in a positive light, you may VALUE Ne, in which case you might be ESE or LSE. But Ne egos tend to have trouble with looking sharp, even when they want to. They also tend to not be aware of people's heads turning.

I know you didn't mean as strictly as written, but I did want to clarify a bit...

We don't know how often she dressed to the nines, nor what kinds of problems, if any, which dressing up may have led to during the process, nor even what she considers 'to the Nine'. There's nothing in socionics that says that NeFi won't nor can't dress up once in a while, doing makeup, doing hair, wearing a nice dress, wearing some heels for a while. The heels might come off rather quickly, but they're only needed for that brief entrance, heh. Some form fitting dresses can even be made from comfy material. But even if not, it's a temporary thing, usually of a social nature, especially when having an interest in someone's opinion. NeFi do have Se role and demonstrative Fe.

There is also nothing about NeFi that suggests that they wouldn't be aware of turning heads. Again, 4D Fe. Now, in my younger years I would dress up once in a while to go dancing, and I did turn heads. i usually would quickly check to make sure my skirt was down, my top wasn't too far down, and there was no TP caught on my heels. And I might have worried about my makeup and the change of lighting and been horrified at the resulting image. However, I'm not a particularly confident person, and was even less so back then. Applejacks strikes me as more confident of herself, but nothing that was quoted necessarily means Not NeFi.

Perhaps you have other reasons for questioning her type. I would just be hesitant about doing so based on the quoted material.

[applejacks]

and stereotypically dont know what to do with their hair.

Which is why I had a professional stylist do mine for me : )

[blackburry]

I was actually thinking similarly. For example:



That does not seem IEE-ish at all. IEE dont understand perfume, and stereotypically dont know what to do with their hair. Also high heels are the epitome of uncomfortable, and i dont think an IEE would be one to trade comfort for being dressed to kill.

I dont know about strictly calling you ESE, but I would peg you as someone fairly competent with Se and Si. And also extravert. So consider SEE, ESE, SLE, LSE.

If you see Ne in a positive light, you may VALUE Ne, in which case you might be ESE or LSE. But Ne egos tend to have trouble with looking sharp, even when they want to. They also tend to not be aware of people's heads turning.

oh and yeah @Daft21, ime EIIs and LIIs are the HORRIBLE health nuts. the Si-HA's go wayyy overboard with the hypochondria and reaction to it... Si egos tend to automatically take care of their health without a big to-do about it, especially SLIs who are Mr. & Ms. Practicals (LSEs too for that matter). LSEs though tend to overdo the workaholism, imo.

Oh Shut up. This was the stupidest post I've read all day and it's kind of rude. (granted this post is more rude), but whatever. I like her and if she says she's IEE, then she's IEE. How someone gets dressed up or lack thereof IS NOT TYPE RELATED.


*edit* so after I wrote this..I then scrolled down and saw other people had also said not type related and you wrote a post stating that maybe it wasn't as well. so. I feel better about it. but still..those kinds of pushy blanket comments annoy me to no end. Sorry for being a butthead.

[Suz]

(Again, sorry- I'm reviving these really old posts, but I just got married and I'm trying to make sense of it all! And apparently I only have 30 years left with this man!)

Big congrats on your recent wedding!!

[applejacks]

Big congrats on your recent wedding!!

Thank you! : )

I've tried every way I can to analyze myself and my husband, and he continues to dodge. He even broke the Cube Test, of all things.

[Kernel]

That does seem to describe how my IEE friend is around her duals. She comes up with zany little comments all the time and they just don't blink, and roll with whatever she says. They also don't make a big deal out of it, like call attention to it being a joke, but rather 'accept' the reality of it and play it deadpan. Umm, maybe I'm explaining this badly. I'll try to give an example.

It happens frequently too. Another time we were at lunch with a(nother) SLI and SEI. The IEE made some comment about something someone told her about monkey brains, and the practices people engage in while eating it. I immediately chimed in about seeing monkey brains in the grocery store, and then the SLI jumped in with this elaborate explanation of a family practice of his that basically validated the seemingly outlandish original statement of the IEE. The words he was saying were clearly taking the piss, but he said it completely deadpan and very convincingly, and all three of us were presenting it as if we were having a serious discussion and all the mirth was very much kept below the surface, though easy to recognise in each other. The SEI was completely lost and had no idea what we were all on about.

I've never seen a SLI sort of cut my IEE friend off because they are uninterested in what she's saying. I mean, yeah, she is a very interesting lady. But more than that, they do always seem genuinely interested - in person. And SLIs react to her very differently to the way they react to me, and to others as far as I know. They seem...lit up and brought out of their brusque exterior with her, playful and willing to joke.

I think it's cute. Really really cute.

This is a great observation. It sounds very much like how me and SLI interact. They really seem to like that wackiness. I remember once, me, ESI, SLI were talking about how the moon was red that day, then I came up with a very strange/stupid reason for the moon being that color, the ESI was like WTF but SLI laughed (in a way saying he is not judging you) then continued talking about it.

Sometimes, I will try to explain something, but I don't find the right words, so I keep saying very vague words here and there, others usually stop listening to me but SLI always pick up something from what i was saying and we continue talking without me feeling uncomfortable. It's not with words only, from time to time, I unconsciously do some weird movements, then I turn and find SLI laughing so hard somewhere, like once, it was very cold so I started (unconsciously) jumping in my place and I thought no one was watching but SLI was there all along and he started laughing, then he told me that next time I should wear warmer clothes.

It's very great and refreshing to have someone around who doesn't judge you for being your stupid self haha.