Any sense of VI is useless, so I am not going to bother posting pictures. But Lao Tzu is the founder and central figure of Taoism to whom Tao Te Ching (a collection of Taoist wisdom, sayings, poetry, etc.) is attributed.
Lao Tzu on Wikipedia
Lao Tzu (the Taoism guy)
Any sense of VI is useless, so I am not going to bother posting pictures. But Lao Tzu is the founder and central figure of Taoism to whom Tao Te Ching (a collection of Taoist wisdom, sayings, poetry, etc.) is attributed.
Lao Tzu on Wikipedia
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
"With the later developments by Lao Tzu, the Dao begins to take a path extending, and in some respects ascending above, that envisioned by Yang Chu. Whereas his predecessor had tried to elucidate on the Dao in terms of living according to nature, Lao Tzu elaborates by positing that the Dao was nameless (in the sense given by the Confucian ‘rectification of names’). Unlike all other being, the Dao is not a name in the sense that it possesses implicit attributes constituent of its essence. Rather it is the source from which all the rest are brought into being.
Yet, the goal is to come to understand the Dao and thereafter live in accordance with its implications. Thus we must try to explain it in a media ill-suited to the task. Hence, difficulty arises in its comprehension and, secondarily, with any attempts to transmit it.
However, the result of these changes in conception of the Dao is that it is now an eternal system, itself unchanging, that governs and dictates all the changes of the universe. Thus it is more completely conceived as an objective rule or set of rules that are themselves incommunicable via language.
One aspect of the Dao which Lao Tzu tries to communicate consists in that ‘reversing is the movement of the Dao.’ This means that any extreme quality must ultimately give rise to its opposite. If one is arrogant with regard to knowledge (‘Wow, I sure know a lot,’ a student may claim) this can only lead to its diminishing (‘I don’t need to listen to these ignoramuses’). Whereas, if one views him or herself with humility, this perceived lack of knowledge must lead to its expansion.
Failure to observe these laws governing change inevitably results in bad outcomes, such as the more narrow example given by Yang Chu whereby not following the Dao and valuing things was a prescription for an early demise. In carrying this principle of interrelated opposites, Lao Tzu recommends for daily conduct starting first from the opposite of what one intends and, in this way, an individual may achieve their aims (such as the previous example of the two students’ views on knowledge).
Equally important to success is the avoidance of excess in action. As individual persons yearn to accomplish their goals, they must be cautious. In seeking to get things done, one must avoid over doing them. To do otherwise is to violate the Dao. As a result of this excessive effort, the action itself will be carried out with a sense of artificiality. This in turn contradicts the naturalness which the Dao represents. Just as the Dao governs all that comes into being, so too does it grant to each its respective Te, or that whereby something is what it is (its essence or nature)."
Last edited by munenori2; 02-07-2008 at 05:22 AM. Reason: It's worth noting that this is *my* interpretation of his work.
Moonlight will fall
Winter will end
Harvest will come
Your heart will mend
In essence, taoism is the same view, attitude, perspective, philosophy ... as Schopenhauer's, or Robert M. Pirsig's in Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. And both Schopenhauer and Pirsig are ILIs.
Almost certainly SEI. I was a Taoist for years.
Ne-INFj.
Why do you say that?Originally Posted by eunice
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
You cannot just ask why not SLI, but you must also ask why an SLI.
Neither do I, but I think that attempting to type him makes it easier than trying to type Taoism (and how it has evolved) in general.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
Could be. Actually, Fe PoLR if you read his (supposed) teachings makes much sense.
I have actually thought Pirsig is ISTp.
Not the worst of guesses, but he is not an ISTp. Why would you think that he is that type?
Taoism is very clearly IP in temperament, so one can understand why people suggest ISFp. But it is also very clearly, so SEI would only fit in an outward sense. And Taoism is also cynical and distanced from the world in a way that is not compatible with leading
types. However, this typing problems illustrates what is wrong with the quadras and why they should not be used as a typing tool.
On hindsight, I think you are right.
I don't know about Schopenhauer, but Zen (or Ch'an) itself is a hybrid of Buddhism and Taoism. FWIW, I have found Zen is more Ni, and Tao is more Si.
I don't know what Lao Tzu's type would be (I don't believe he actually existed), but the Tao te Ching is one of my favorite scriptures in general. The mythical Lao Tzu seems possibly SLI.
"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet
But I do. I can assure you that he is ILI.
But you have yet to really say why you think so.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
Of course not. And neither have I said anything about Lao Tzu's type. I have only said that Taoism isIf I became a Taoist and wrote a book from a Taoist perspective, it wouldn't mean I'm the same type as Lao Tzu or that all Taoists are the the same type as Lao Tzu was.
It's not the same thing, but the "temperaments" are very similar. And the book on your bookshelf has very little to say about Zen. It is much more interesting. I envy you if haven't read it yet. I wish I could read that book for the first time again ... that experience you can only have once in a lifetime. Don't miss it (and have patience the first 100 pages or so).
Yes, no doubt.
It sure does. Obviously an IP temperament for the philosophy, as others have noted. Ni > Si is probable, and Te > Fe also looks probable. It would be really interesting now if we found out that it was actually some ESTp or ESFp who originated these ideas as a result of some deep psychological yearning for their dual. Heh heh. You never know.
This translation is... deep @para
12
::::::::::::::
Graphics blind the eyes.
Audio files deafen the ear.
Mouse clicks numb the fingers.
Heuristics weaken the mind.
Options wither the heart.
The Guru observes the net
but trusts his inner vision.
He allows things to come and go.
His heart is as open as the ether.
::::::::::::::
17
::::::::::::::
When the Guru administers, the users
are hardly aware that he exists.
Next best is a sysop who is loved.
Next, one who is feared.
And worst, one who is despised.
If you don't trust the users,
you make them untrustworthy.
The Guru doesn't talk, he hacks.
When his work is done,
the users say, "Amazing:
we implemented it, all by ourselves!"
::::::::::::::
19
::::::::::::::
Throw away documentation and manuals,
and users will be a hundred times happier.
Throw away privileges and quotas,
and users will do the Right Thing.
Throw away proprietary and site licenses,
and there won't be any pirating.
If these three aren't enough,
just stay at your home directory
and let all processes take their course.
::::::::::::::
75
::::::::::::::
When license fees are too high,
users do things by hand.
When the management is too intrusive,
users lose their spirit.
Hack for the user's benefit.
Trust them; leave them alone.
https://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/92q2/taote.html
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Opening the internet should automatically redirect to this translation every five minutes...
Most introverts are posible. INTP is certainly possible, IStj too, ISFP as well. INFJ is a distant possibility. INFP too, but least likely IMO. ISTP not possible at all. ESTP impossible.
IMO: the 4 most likely in this order:
-INTP
-ISTJ
-ISFP
-INFJ
Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.
SLI. ILI possibly, but seems more Delta.
I thought Lao Tzu was one of those few Infinite souls and therefore untypable.
~* astralsilky
Each essence is a separate glass,
Through which Sun of Being’s Light is passed,
Each tinted fragment sparkles with the Sun,
A thousand colors, but the Light is One.
Jami, 15th c. Persian Poet
Post types & fully individuated before 2012 ...
The type that can be named is not the eternal type.
The Tao Te Ching
Unfortunate that the link has some typos that take away from the flow of it. The Stephen Mitchel translation is the one I like best.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
I agree. Taoism in general seems more Delta oriented. Yang Zhu one of the early precursors to Taoism I believe was SLI as well. He was considered a hedonist, early proponent of egoism, and epicurean which fits Delta particularly SLI philosophy. The only surviving material from him is in a book called Yang Zhu's "garden of pleasure"—http://www.sacred-texts.com/tao/ycgp/index.htm
@Aylen
The Mitchell translation is good, but it is more of a reinterpretation of Mitchell's own ideas of the Daoist concepts.
Red Pine has a very poetic, rooted translation which is accurate to some of the source material we have. (it is supposedly very tricky to accurately create a semantic bridge between ancient chinese and modern day languages.)
I urge you to read it if interest is in you.
http://zoraweb.com/lao-tzus-taoteching
Thanks for the link.@Aylen
The Mitchell translation is good, but it is more of a reinterpretation of Mitchell's own ideas of the Daoist concepts.
Red Pine has a very poetic, rooted translation which is accurate to some of the source material we have. (it is supposedly very tricky to accurately create a semantic bridge between ancient chinese and modern day languages.)
I urge you to read it if interest is in you.
http://zoraweb.com/lao-tzus-taoteching
I own several of these hard copy versions including that one in. Read them all but the Mitchell translation is still the most appealing to me.
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...=1AABAW0069U2V
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Taoism close to SLI. Lao Tzu was problaby XLI, eventhough taoism is SLI I'm sure most of EII and ILI like that philosophy (Ursula K. Le Guin who transleted also liked Tao Te Ching was an ILI).
LII. This guy basically had a mindset of a Alpha scientist. But science doesn't appears in that era yet, so it became a religion.
Also his anarchy society idea is more Alpha than Delta.
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