Wayne Dyer

[munenori2]

I haven't read that book, I don't know your situation, and I'm not an expert on this guy or his writing, but I'm pretty sure he'd say that by thinking you're supposed to be somewhere else it means that you see where you're at right now as being wrong somehow. He would go on to say that you should just accept where you're at right now for what it is without judging or blaming yourself (or anyone else). Whatever's going on with you is nothing more than where you are on your path right now, and there's nothing wrong with that. You have something to learn, and once you do you'll move on to something else.

Nothing will prevent growth more than thinking there's something wrong with where you're at now (or where you were ever at).

Detach yourself from the outcome and just focus on the feelings of peace and harmony and security (or whatever) that you intend to manifest. The details will take care of themselves.

One of the biggest points that he focuses on is accepting responsibility for yourself. Everything in your life, including people, events, circumstances, etc. are manifestations of your state of being and the way you internally process things. The way you experience your life is your decision alone, and if you choose to focus on the negative things or things you don't want, you'll manifest more of those things. If you choose to instead to internally experience peace and gratitude no matter what is going on, you'll manifest harmony and abundance in your life.

Liiiiar!

You do seem to have a pretty good grasp of the gist of his message, at least from what my meager experience has allowed me to divine.

[Phaedrus]

ENFp is a good guess. Anything else than one of the N types is not.

[aestrivex]

who is wayne dyer?

[Logos]

who is wayne dyer?

Someone of no consequence.

[munenori2]

I'm sure you already checked, but:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayne_Dyer

Also, he probably has some Youtube stuff also, though I've never heard him live before.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Self-help books suck. The more I read that patronizing crap the more I want to kill myself. If you really want help, you'd see a real person face-to-face and you'd actually do actions instead of just reading about them.

I can't stand that guy who writes those Kabbalah books either.

[Joy]

Liiiiar!

You do seem to have a pretty good grasp of the gist of his message, at least from what my meager experience has allowed me to divine.

I haven't actually read any of his books. I listened to much of one of his audio programs though. Just about everything he says is stuff I've instinctively believed (on some level) for years, long before I ever read any books or listened to audio programs (or speakers) on the subject.

That is exactly what he says (and more), and you now, he is, in fact, absolutely right about that, No doubt, I agree with most of what he writes. Psychological distress often involves cognitive distortions and change involves cognitive restructuring, which is the aim of cognitive therapy. The issue here is that Dyer doesn't tell you which path you should follow when you want psychological changes, he tells you about A and B, but not how to get from A to B. Most people who feel a need to change their ways (who are in need of therapeutic help, be it counseling of self-help), it is impossible to 'flip the switch'. They need to go through a process that involves several steps, not just a change in their cognitive outlooks. Self-acceptance is a major and often the first step, but he doesn't tell us how to accomplish that.

Those steps (including self-acceptance) are not the cause of growth, they're the natural result.

He talks about a woman he counseled who was saying that she needed to figure out what was blocking her from growing and improving herself, and he said that the block is that she thinks there's a block. Sounds too simplistic... someone said that to me once and I was like "no, there is something, there has to be a reason". The message regarding that is that focusing on the reason, whether you're trying to find it or fix it or whatever, is just going to keep you spinning your wheels.

He basically says: "these are the rules, stick by them and you'll be happy!" Rule-based schemas, which I think is Ti.

Are we talking about the same guy?

Seriously though, I didn't here him talking about rules... The content of his audio program was entirely based around philosophy and how things work.

I can see how it would work for Ti based people in particular and Te/Ti based people in general.

I do think he lacks something that ethical people seem to often have, not quite sure what it is though. I guess he has a more external approach to rational things?

Certainly not ENFp, that book lacks any sort of compassion. Of course, I'm assuming his style of writing reflects his psychology. I think his style of writing is very harsh.

Depends how you define compassion. I think he's a very compassionate person... What good are you doing anyone by encouraging them to continue feeling sorry for themselves? How is telling people that their life is their responsibility anything less than compassionate? It may not be easy to hear for someone who wants to blame their circumstances or other people for their problems and live in resentment, but those people are never going to move forward if they remain in that mindset. If it bothers them to hear it, good. They should be bothered.

They will reject this message that people are trying to get across as long and they're still living with that mindset. "When the student is ready, the teacher will appear." And if the teacher (or lesson) is presented before the student is ready to learn that lesson, it doesn't matter how the information is presented.

And as Dyer would say, there's nothing wrong with that. It's just where they're at in their lives at that time.

(Perhaps I'm missing your point though? Like I said, I didn't actually read that book.)

Again, I completely agree with him, but he still doesn't tell people how to get from A to B. But then again, the average buyer of self-help books is not really interested in change, only in the illusion that he/she is doing something about it. His books fit that niche very nicely, I think.

You are correct, in a way. Read what I wrote in response to BulletsAndDoves for the explanation for why I say this.

I took the trouble if watching some of his videos, and he's definitively not IEE, not by my standards, not by comparison to what I seen people here regard as IEEs.

I'm not sure. I'm beginning to think LIE is more likely.

I can not however, exclude the possibility of LIE, but I still see to much of an adherance to 'laws' (Ti) and a natural commanding presence (Se).

I can't see any possible way that his ego block consists of two external information elements.

Is it possible that what you're seeing is rationality (and extroversion)?

As to Ne: he adds nothing new to whatever philosophy he's talking about at the time (compare this to e.g. Expat, an LIE who is able to come up with 'new' stuff out of the blue)

Actually, he does pretty much the same thing Expat does.

See, Expat doesn't invent new theories, either. He just uses creates examples for and explanations of already existing theories. Whatever you're seeing as new is just a different way of explaining or looking at or applying the same traditional theory of Socionics.

also, his approach does not deal with multiple possibilities

He's constantly talking about being open to and enthusiastically exploring new possibilities, from what I've heard

exceptions to the rules etc.etc.

I'm really not sure I understand what "rules" you're talking about? Whatever principles he discusses are just the application of various philosophies to his personal observations. The only way I can see this as being comparable to a "rule" would be if you consider things like "what goes up must come down" a "rule".

Please note that I'm not saying that what he talks about is exactly like the laws of gravity or thermodynamics. I'm referring to gravity as a matter of "that's just how things work", not the method of classification or means of obtaining one's perceptions related to gravity (which would have to be physical).

especially for a guy of his age: an ILE or IEE of his age and his experience would have a much more complex understanding and try to communicate that.

Wow, I'm totally lost now. Complex how? Much more complex than what?

Personally, I think progress is made when complicated things are simplified into the most basic, working understanding possible.

What value is there in focusing on all of the complexities of something when it's not necessary in order to accomplish the intended result? Besides, he's read a lot of books and talked to a lot of experts about many different subjects. He's gathered information and I have no doubt that he understands the complexities of the subjects he's studied as necessary. How else would be be able to get what's important and what's not if not by gleaning information from sources he deems reliable? What would be the point in re-writing a book about each of those subjects when doing so won't communicate the ideas he's presenting in a format which can be readily processed and used by people? If you want to know more about any of the subjects he touches on or the complex information his ideas/theories/beliefs are built upon, I'm quite certain he could direct you to good sources of information and explain how each is relevant to what he discusses.

I can't see Ne as an 1st, 2nd or 8th function. Not in his book, not in the videos.

The stories he tells about his life and what he used to be like make anything other than Si as a 4th or 5th function pretty much impossible (assuming he's being truthful, of course). That would mean that Ne is either his 1st or 8th function.

Also, his Fe switches on and off a bit too consciously I think.

Really? I haven't noticed this. (And if so, wouldn't this imply that Fe is a conscious function for him?)

Self-help books suck. The more I read that patronizing crap the more I want to kill myself.

This is very important: His books are not self-help books. They're self improvement books. There's a huge difference.

Self help: How to stop being a slut
Self improvement: How to develop healthy, lasting relationships

Self help: How to heal your physical symptoms
Self improvement: How to experience optimum health

Self help: How to control your temper
Self improvement: How to live a life of inner peace

Self help: How to fix all of the problems in your life and defeat your weaknesses
Self improvement: How to pull your own strings

See the difference? If our dominant thoughts becomes our existence, focusing on fixing or removing a problem (via "self help" or any other means) will only perpetuate the existence of that problem. The more you need it to stop, the more you will continue to need it to stop.

If you want to continue in a behavior, try to stop doing it. If you want to have healthier or more productive behaviors, focus on the desired results that having those behaviors will bring. If those images and feelings dominate your thoughts, your resulting behavior (and even circumstances) will automatically manifest the reality that you have created (and are already living) in your mind.

If you really want help, you'd see a real person face-to-face and you'd actually do actions instead of just reading about them.

Personally, I've had the complete opposite experience. Maybe it's different for different people?

I can't stand that guy who writes those Kabbalah books either.

I don't know anything about Kabbalah.

[Joy]

like I was saying...

This is very important: His books are not self-help books. They're self improvement books. There's a huge difference.

Self help: How to stop being a slut
Self improvement: How to develop healthy, lasting relationships

Self help: How to heal your physical symptoms
Self improvement: How to experience optimum health

Self help: How to control your temper
Self improvement: How to live a life of inner peace

Self help: How to fix all of the problems in your life and defeat your weaknesses
Self improvement: How to pull your own strings

See the difference? If our dominant thoughts becomes our existence, focusing on fixing or removing a problem (via "self help" or any other means) will only perpetuate the existence of that problem. The more you need it to stop, the more you will continue to need it to stop.

[implied]

that's very simple reframing. it just sounds like "self improvement" is a euphemism for "self help."

[Logos]

that's very simple reframing. it just sounds like "self improvement" is a euphemism for "self help."

Essentially.