I'm sorry, but I still see "self-improvement" as a nice way of saying "self-help" and your argument has not done much to alter that perception.Originally Posted by Joy
I'm sorry, but I still see "self-improvement" as a nice way of saying "self-help" and your argument has not done much to alter that perception.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
same here. duck is a duck.
That would be like you asking me to write down directions to get somewhere, and me saying "sure" and then writing down some directions to get somewhere else and saying "What's the difference? Directions are directions."
The same can be said about a lot of things. Some people, for example, go through a traumatic experience and it affects them very negatively, and others can go through the same experience and learn from it and gain wisdom and personal growth.
Then there's also the matter of what I was saying to bulletsanddoves.
how is this the same? i'm saying you're just using nicer language to describe the same thing. "duck is a duck" is stock phrase. you could draw hearts all over the paper but the directions would be the same. let's compare apples to apples.
lol, "self improvement" (or alternatively "self development") is merely a slightly less embarassing sub-genre of "self help" where, instead of the typical problem-oriented approach, the author merely reconstitutes the wisdom and advice that has already been around for thousands of years already in the religious scriptures and war/social treatises of the world. Case in point, Dyer's most recent book which is just an elaboration of a few verses from the Tao te Ching.
"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet
right. But you canb also restate this: the focus of the former is that something needs to change, the latter focusses on expansion.
In my personal opinion, self-improvement in the style of Wayne Dyer, is often a form of denial that one needs help.
Anyway, perhaps you'll like this article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_...Disintegration
“I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking
The main point is that your thoughts create your external reality. If you don't understand how this would mean that thinking there's something wrong with you will take you to an opposite place in your life than focusing on improving yourself where ever you're at, there's nothing more I can say to explain it.
If you disagree with the part in bold, just say so and I'll understand why you don't think that thinking about your problems or what's wrong with you all day will make you less well, but focusing on personal growth all day will lead to greater wellness.
yep, pretty much
Depends how you look at it. I do think it's important to be honest with yourself, but once you've done that, the focus should be on where you want to be instead of what's wrong with you.
Looks somewhat interesting. I'll have to read it. I agree with the premise that we have to have negative experiences in order to growth. Sort of like how muscles are developed. I've always believed that life is a series of peaks and valleys, and focusing too much on avoiding negative experiences will keep you from having positive experiences as well. I do, however, see those negative experiences as lessons.
it really depends on the person, IMO. i do see what you're saying with thoughts creating external reality. some people "get better" by focusing on their problems/the negative aspects of things and having some discipline. some people need a kick in the ass and some people need positive reinforcement, imo. it's just like, i asked a guy the other day how he quit smoking and he put up pictures of cancerous lungs to remind him why he didn't need to do it. some people would not be motivated at all by this and would rather hear about the potential benefits of not smoking and how quickly your lungs might heal etc etc. there was also a recent popular weight loss book for women called something like, "skinny bitch" where you get a bulletsanddoves sort of fellow telling you what a fatass you are and why you shouldn't eat. i think this would have a negative effect on some people. i mean, different strokes. i like baby's explanation the best, here.
That's interesting. My sister was saying that she reminds herself how much she hates her job in order to motivate her to get up for her early classes and work full time and go to school at the same time. I told her to imagine having the perfect job instead, and she said she needs to hate her job in order to motivate herself. My mom was saying pretty much the same thing I was, and she was like, "I'm not like you two. That sort of thing may work for you, but it doesn't for me."
right, maybe she needs a challenge to overcome rather than a reward to work for. i personally think i do better with external positive motivation rather than negative threats. "if you do this then this awesome thing will happen!" rather than "if you don't do this you're going to die a miserable death!" although i'm more tolerant of the latter than i used to be, i suppose.
Me too. (that's a very cute photo, by the way.)
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
This reminds me of a conversation I once had with an IEE colleague. We were talking about the law of attraction (actually it's more so about manifestation than attraction, but people are more likely to recognize the term "law of attraction"), and he said, "Yep, that's what determines what happens to people. Well, that and murphey's law." I said, "That's the same thing." He chuckled and nodded and said, "Yes, I suppose it is."
I guarantee that my sister is going to end up hating every single job she ever has until she changes her mindset. (She blames her circumstances too much. Has no concept that she's responsible for how others treat her. Worries herself needlessly and invites and nurtures stress in her life. Thinks that she's got bad luck and fails to recognize that she's the one who creates her own misfortune.)
What type is your sister? Is she older or younger than you? How would you describe your relationship with your sister?
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
EII, 3 years younger, one of my favorite people of all time
We're best friends whenever she's single. Right now she's with my LII ex husband, which I'm actually happy about because it's the first relationship she's ever had with someone who I knew won't try to control her. She's good for him, too. And I trust them to not fuck each other over (more so him than her). It's like I can stop worrying about both of them to a large extent because now they can watch out for each other.
Okay. I was curious because your advice seemed of the variety shared between an older to a younger sibling and not something that was necessarily type related, so I wanted to be sure.
ETA: Wait a tick. An EII said that about waking up everyday hating her job as an incentive? That does not seem to quite match up with EII positivism. I am not saying that she is not EII, but rather your advice would probably be more psychologically beneficial for her if she is a positivist.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
I would say it's a mixed bag. If someone tells me I can't do something, or that I'm not good at it, and I don't much like them, it's an incentive. If someone whom I like and respect tells me I can, it's also an incentive. You may also go vice-versa.
Basically, I'm saying that piece of info isn't conclusive in itself.
Moonlight will fall
Winter will end
Harvest will come
Your heart will mend
Yeah, I grew up taking care of her. She's not good at sticking up for herself. Sometimes I wonder if my talking her into leaving every relationship she's been in (and sometimes quitting bad jobs) was enabling her to be weak, but I know for a fact she'd be dead right now if I hadn't insisted that she leave one of the relationships she was in, and possibly another. I just don't know what else to do. She'll be okay as long as she's with him though. If she leaves him, however, I'm really not sure he'll be okay. This shit pisses me off, too. You know? I've seen both of them almost die more times than I'd like to count. I remember once when he was a teenage, before he and I were even friends, I made my brother (who was at my parent's house visiting) promise to stay up with him that night to make sure he didn't die. Ugh wtf. Before they were together I was afraid I'd be attending his funeral in the not too distant future.
I can't encourage them to be self-reliant. I either have to totally take care of them (something which I just simply do not have it in me to do for any significant length of time, as evidenced by my divorce) or ignore their problems and hope that each of them can work it all out for themselves, which seems pretty unlikely as both of them seem to need to be taken care of. They say they don't, but you should see what happens to them when there's no one there to do it.
I've thought the same. I can't think of any other type that would make sense for her though, except maybe IEE... but a Se PoLR makes way more sense than a Ti PoLR, and I can certainly see her valuing Si. I'm really not sure about her temperament, to be perfectly honest.ETA: Wait a tick. An EII said that about waking up everyday hating her job as an incentive? That does not seem to quite match up with EII positivism. I am not saying that she is not EII, but rather your advice would probably be more psychologically beneficial for her if she is a positivist.
I'm also pretty certain my dad is IEI, and he's as pessimistic as they come. While I think there's something to the negativist/positivist dichotomy, I haven't quite figured out how it relates to optimism, pessimism, and clinical depression. Not to mention PTSD, in both he and my sister's cases. I've decided for now that though being jaded and cynical isn't type related.
Okay, enough drunk talk for tonight.
exactly
yep
Positivism =! optimism. You know that. I know that. But the point being is that positivism sees what has been done and what has been improved, while the negativism sees what yet has been done and what could still be improved. She can still be pessimistic about her outcomes while seeing all that she has done and the problems she has solved.
I did wonder whether or not our inability to see eye-to-eye on the difference between self-help and self-improvement books may have been related in some capacity to this dichotomy.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
I did as well, but I think there may be a lot of positivists who might have a similar outlook.
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