If the four different socionics groups were the four different houses at hogwarts

[liveandletlive]

LOL @ this thread. u guys realize that you are getting all heated from discussing harry potter and socionics right?

[aestrivex]

http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...I_domain/book2

[iAnnAu]

http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...I_domain/book2

Right. On. Dude.
Seriously, does *anyone* think this discussion is becoming heated? I wuz jus' havin' fun ... I read all the HP books, but they're such fluff that I made it through them in one or two days per book.
I might get heated over typings of characters from Dhalgren, mind you ...

[Slacker]

This is an example of how we see what we want in these fictional characters.

I see Griffindor as being anti-establishment, in a Delta way, and being distinctly not Se. I definitely see that house as valuing Fi, which would mean it would have to be Delta or Gamma. But that's why I see Delta over Gamma, although maybe it's part both. But yes Hermione seems to me to clearly be ENTj. I think Harry Potter is INFj and that's part of where I get the anti-establishment non-Se bit. Maybe all of Griffindor isn't like that and it's more just him.

So JK Rowling is supposed to be ENTj - I thought maybe Herminoe was based on her.

[Slacker]

They're complete anti-authority types. And he's described as having messy hair and not caring, wearing old hand-me-down clothes that don't fit and not caring, and being physically awkward and uncoordinated. Sounds more like an Ne type than an Se type.

But fictional characters aren't always clearly one type over another.

[marooned]

They're complete anti-authority types. And he's described as having messy hair and not caring, wearing old hand-me-down clothes that don't fit and not caring, and being physically awkward and uncoordinated. Sounds more like an Ne type than an Se type.

But that could kind of go with anyone in any quadra... I mean I have most of those attributes and I don't think I'm in an Ne/Si quadra... I had thought Harry might be EII... the only issue is he does seem rather good with Se... but then Hermione seems rather good with Fi and I think she's LIE.

[Slacker]

I don't think he's vindictive, aggressive, or hostile. I think he gets backed into situations over and over again that he'd rather not be in.

[Slacker]

Have you read the last book? He very much changes his opinion about Snape.

And what aggression he has is limited to people who are authority figures or who value and appeal to authority figures. And is generally very much in self-defense. Not something he seeks out.

Though it did occur to me that I think Daniel Radcliffe is ENFp and it's possible I'm reading some of his personality into the character.

[Expat]

. But yes Hermione seems to me to clearly be ENTj. I think Harry Potter is INFj and that's part of where I get the anti-establishment non-Se bit. Maybe all of Griffindor isn't like that and it's more just him.

So JK Rowling is supposed to be ENTj - I thought maybe Herminoe was based on her.

First, I haven't read the books past the first one (they became increasingly long and I honestly prefer to read other things) but I've read interviews with JKR, and although I think ILI is likely (perhaps I was the first one to suggest it), maybe ENTj is a good bet. She did say that Hermione is based on her; she has further said that HP is "my hero" (that is, JKR's). It would make perfect sense for an ENTj woman to have an ISFj guy as her ideal hero.

[Slacker]

Yes but if her husband is INFj or some teenage boy she had a crush on in high school was INFj, it would make sense for her teenage hero to be her semi-dual too. That isn't a very strong argument IMO.

[Expat]

Yes but if her husband is INFj or some teenage boy she had a crush on in high school was INFj, it would make sense for her teenage hero to be her semi-dual too. That isn't a very strong argument IMO.

I think it's very strong. Her idea of what a perfect hero would be like is based on , with in super-ego. Not in her actual experiences. She might even think that an INFj guy is the best possible in reality; her ideal, secret, perhaps "unrealistic" hero would still be an ISFj rather than INFj.

But her character based on her does not find herself attracted to the hero, but the sidekick.

Shall I reveal then a secret and tell you why, if I'm right?

Because Rowling (seeing herself as Hermione) thinks that her perfect ISFj hero is too good for her.

[Slacker]

Her idea of a perfect hero would be based on what she's seen in her life. If she hasn't been with a dual, she might not think of that. How many people here say they think their duals sound boring or whatever? Some might be mistyped but I doubt they all are. And there is NO WAY I would have considered ISTps ideal for me before meeting my husband. My favorite before that was an ISFp. And the boy I had a huge crush on in high school was ISFp too. I don't think it's weird at all for someone to idealize a semi-dual.

[Logos]

Hermione is definitely ENTj. Anyway...

She may be an ENTj, but she is not definitely an ENTj.

[Slacker]

He didn't want to create Dumbledore's Army - he was goaded into it. It wasn't his idea. He said he couldn't do it, that he wasn't knowledgeable enough, etc., but eventually folded and agreed to do it. That is weak Se and not his initiative at all.

I'm surprised you don't find him intuitive. He intuitively comes up with one idea after another of how to solve one crisis after another. He doesn't even really learn how to fly or do magic - much of what he does is to just try things out and see what works. And to follow his "gut feelings" about things. Often in ways contrary to "the right way" according to authority (such as the ministry of magic).

He is impulsive but that isn't at all contrary to being INFj.

Anyone would be vengeful after someone killed their parents. Also, despite how he was treated by his aunt and uncle and his cousin, he protects them from harm - he does not behave in a vengeful way at all.

It's also possible he's a blend of more than one type though. She could have used a few people as inspiration for that character. I think she herself was probably inspiration for Hermione so that character seems clearer.

And he does change his mind about Snape. I don't care how late it is, he does change his mind, which you said is contrary to Gamma.

[Logos]

Thanks.

I was kind of worried that what I said would have been read as petty nitpicking, but there are times when I think that the use of "definitely" tries to cut off any other possibilities or future discussions regarding an individual's. So it is good that you did not interpret what I said incorrectly. Again, she may very well be an ENTj, but as we have seen in others in this thread, there is a tendency to personalize fictional characters too much through self-projection and identification with them.

First, I haven't read the books past the first one (they became increasingly long and I honestly prefer to read other things) but I've read interviews with JKR, and although I think ILI is likely (perhaps I was the first one to suggest it), maybe ENTj is a good bet. She did say that Hermione is based on her; she has further said that HP is "my hero" (that is, JKR's). It would make perfect sense for an ENTj woman to have an ISFj guy as her ideal hero.

But her character based on her does not find herself attracted to the hero, but the sidekick.

[hellothere]

Well, I'll admit that Hermione is my favourite character but I also think I have very good reasons for thinking she's ENTj, including (but not limited to):

• EJ temperament/Si-PoLR: demonstrated in "Prizoner of Azkaban" when she uses the Time Turner to attend 3 classes simultaneously, severely overextending herself and stressing out. She's also notably proactive in general, highly-strung and apparently unable to relax.
• Te-leading/Fe-role: For one, I think she embodies the "know-it-all" stereotype of ENTj. She also tends to talk at great length (seems to be an ENTj trait all on its own IME, but let me continue --) listing facts and using much of the vocabulary associated with Te that is listed on the wiki. She has extensive knowledge and feel that she can be most helpful by using it. She attempts to get in the "spirit" of things but ultimately is kind of awkward and has the tendency noted in the wiki to "obnoxiously" correct people.

I'm convinced. I guess I was just thinking of that EII "social role" on wikisocion:

The person who is always exemplary and perfect in all he or she does, but is far more focused on achieving his internal ideal of perfection than achieving more concrete goals in life.

[hellothere]

perhaps...any examples?

[hellothere]

(I also think she fits the "know-it-all" social role much, much better)

that's true... and the SPEW thing --> "The maverick politician or activist"?

[Logos]

Well, I'll admit that Hermione is my favourite character but I also think I have very good reasons for thinking she's ENTj, including (but not limited to):

• EJ temperament/Si-PoLR: demonstrated in "Prizoner of Azkaban" when she uses the Time Turner to attend 3 classes simultaneously, severely overextending herself and stressing out. She's also notably proactive in general, highly-strung and apparently unable to relax.
• Te-leading/Fe-role: For one, I think she embodies the "know-it-all" stereotype of ENTj. She also tends to talk at great length (seems to be an ENTj trait all on its own IME, but let me continue --) listing facts and using much of the vocabulary associated with Te that is listed on the wiki. She has extensive knowledge and feel that she can be most helpful by using it. She attempts to get in the "spirit" of things but ultimately is kind of awkward and has the tendency noted in the wiki to "obnoxiously" correct people.

What Expat said. :

+ is a bitch. You're attracted to people you admire more than anyone else but often lack the confidence to do anything about it (unless you're Joy, heh).

Wow, so apparently ENTjs are just as good as INTjs at bending over backwards to try and come up with far-fetched ideas to maintain an argument.

Shall I reveal then a secret and tell you why, if I'm right?

Because Rowling (seeing herself as Hermione) thinks that her perfect ISFj hero is too good for her.

Possibly, but I see that as being as much reader projection as it is just plain and simple pointless fan speculation.

Hermione should have ended up with Harry; not Ron. JK doesn't know how to write a proper ending.

No.

[Logos]

Sure, but I actually believe what I said.

And INTjs do not? And does your belief necessarily make you right or does it just make you stubborn? Are you reading things into the characters that are not there and just creating spurious justifications?

[Logos]

: I just meant that I didn't think it was far-fetched. What's so far-fetched about Victims with Fi in the superid being hesitant about pursuing relationships at all, let alone people they admire?

That in itself, nothing. But when there is no evidence for it in the books, then yes it is the sort of far-fetched fan speculation reserved for bad fan fiction.