SLEs/ESTps: The Conquered vs. The Loved

[XoX]

Well... it's more a case of the "shadowy underground realm of 'alternative lifestyle' group dynamics". Traditionalists don't quite get that bringing your 'friends' together like that is rather normal. It's expected that everyone just hangs out and has fun without all of the drama and jealousy. You arrive with the person you are 'with' and hang out with 'friends' who show up.

Hmm...so this is about some kind of idealistic lifestyle thing? That might explain some of the perceived differences too. And Ezra could still be ESTp and disagree I guess.

[XoX]

Something seems very idealized about this entire thread... maybe it's just the ways of thinking about it... that labels "the conquered," "the loved," "satellite group," etc. It like a glossy shiny way of viewing something else... Hmm.

I was referring e.g. to this: "shadowy underground realm of 'alternative lifestyle' group dynamics". It sounded like the interaction is based on an idealism of some "alternative lifestyle" or something. This alternative idealism seems to suggest you should always be with many in order to be happy. That's just how it sounded to me.

[zenbrat]

The erotic attitudes may play a role in this somewhat, though the love types (Meged?) seem more appropriate for explaining the dynamic.

ESTp's relate from Viktoria and Pragma. My ESTp once explained to a friend that in choosing between two women, one should go for the win-win situation: have a sexual relationship with one, and a non-sexual relationship with the other. I watched him do this with a recent (2nd time around) ex... the relationship didn't last long but he was faithful, and continued to spend time with the other women he liked, without having sex with them. This 'time' included what seemed like dating (going out, staying in, cuddling, chatting, etc). It's a lil bizarre, I know, but there is logical method to the madness.

Viktoria pursues, then Pragma kicks in to determine dynamic and progression based on personal benefit - to a lesser degree, it considers impact upon the other party, but to a far lesser degree than might be deemed fair to the other party's interests.

For me, Mania and Agape are dead on. I experience early infatuation that slowly settles into an enduring, unconditional love - and endures, for everyone I've ever been involved with. I can, and do, love more than one person at a time. This penchant has caused heartache in my relationships before so I've remained single, but 2 of the 3 people I'm seeing now are fine with polyamorous/swinger relationship ethics, so it works out well.

[Satan]

I hate, hate, HATE being in the satellite group. I hate when you don't KNOW that you're in the satellite group until it's too late and you've invested a bunch of expections and aspirations and time for nothing. I hate when the person talks to you like you're important, you mean something to them, they give what you have to say weight and consideration.......then get them with other people and *BOOM* you're a satellite.

It's hard to tell with people....do they really care or are you just an amusement? I've had this problem with a couple guys, they talked to me like (I thought) they really cared....then I find out that's just the way they talk to everybody. Or they were just bored at the time.

You've got a lot of hate in you.

[XoX]

I think it's just some people fall in love with or like more than one person at a time, where as others can only be with one person at a time... or sometimes you just can't figure out what you want... I mean it's "alternative" in that it isn't monogamous. That doesn't really seem idealized to me.

Well I can only "be" with one person at a time. I can like or perhaps even love more than one though. But to "be" with someone implies monogamy to me. It is a decision more than anything. There has to be limits and there has to be trust to those limits. Otherwise there is nothing. Oh and I don't think you were being annoying at all. I didn't see it that way.