I think Sheldon is ILI, I'm pretty sure.
Sheldon <3
I think Sheldon is ILI, I'm pretty sure.
Sheldon <3
The mind is restless and difficult to restrain, but it is subdued by practice
-Krishna
Sheldon is EIE:
Polr Si of course. The fact he isn't even slightly interested in sex.
His spot. 1d Si, doesn't want to be in another spot. He found his spot and is sticking with it. Polr can sometimes be like somekind of an irrationnal need, can't change unless force to experience something else. Always eating the same food etc.
Role is Te and Suggestive Ti, needs to know the details, ask why a lot. His need to live in a world with structure, the roommate agreement, demonstrate the 1d Ti of his suggestive fonction.
Leading Fe
I believe him to be judging a lot. He knows what he likes and doesn't like. He even knows what's best for others, can tell them that what they like is stupid.
Mobilizing Se
Needs help to do all the actions, the fact he doesn't drive for example.
He always looks "good", great posture, clean shave, etc. Dresses as the norm ask him to. Not to flashy, never unclean.
But the thing about Sheldon is that he wants to be logical so bad! He has somekind of fixation about logic, but can't help be a slave to his Fe (like all of his wims, demands etc.)
He follows the norms of Te and gets a lot irritated if someone breaks Te. This is also why he can't lie.
That is the main thing I believe about Sheldon, a 2d conscious Te.
Last edited by Destroypuppy; 09-27-2013 at 02:07 PM.
@Destroypuppy,
I always figured Sheldon was ILE, and that explains his relationship with Penny, who is in my view a blatantly obvious ESE (funny, no one really knows her last name and yet we know EVERYTHING else about her, I wonder why?). The two of them have a great chemistry (even if they are just friends), and I see it as a pretty clear activity relationship. I also see Sheldon having a Fi polr, because the guy has all kinds of crazy rules about how close people should and should not be towards him, how he should and should not behave towards others, who likes who and why (and the guy loves gossip cause he always lights up briefly when he hears something, then his logical base comes in and he "pretends" to be uninterested in others, when it is very clear (to me of course), that he cares very much about his friendships). By the way, the guy is such a perfect example of Ne creative there could ever be. Ti/Ne most likely for Sheldon. All his other quirks and phobias are not type related.
I see his love interest (not a great choice by the writers), Amy Farrarh Fowler to be a LII, and the mirror relationship never quite takes off between the two.
Leonard, (what an altogether annoying character) is a tricky one to type, and although I think LII would be an easy choice given his logical nature and strong attraction and interest in Fe (mostly coming from Penny in the show), I just can't place my finger on his type. Certainly an introverted logical base, or creative, and definitely orientated towards Fe. Funny how him and Penny never hit it off though, and I find their looonngg relationship to be very taxing and boring to watch season after season. But, ESE's don't just settle for anyone (haha, what type, or person does?).
Some other characters off the cuff typing:
Howard Wolowitz; a more chilled down ILE, or possible SLE (simply because of Se, I mean the guy went to space). I think the way he uses Ti is very utilitarian, he is an engineer, and the intorverted thinking kind of "serves its purpose" in this character in a way that does not happen with Sheldon who is much more theoretical and employs creative Ne to influence his Ti base. I think Howard is creative Ti. And his relationship to Bernardette is another one that never really gets all warm and cozy, like it might if she was an IEI. They are very much both logicals. Howard always seems to be pushing her for more "soul" and heart. He is looking for Fe from his wife, which he never gets much from her.
Raj Koothrappali; IEI, never quite gets Ti enough for a better typing, but he is an introvert and I think his relationship with Penny as his supervisor. Look at all the episodes where Penny is giving him advice about how to live? He is duals with Howard if Howard is SLE. That would explain why these two are like two peas in a pod, and also argue all the time yet still heart one another (as friends though).
Bernardette Rostenkowski; ISTj, which would make her relationship with Howard either mirror (if he was an SLE), or supervision (if he was an ILE). Either way I could see it as being possible. the chick is funny, has a sharp humour. It also makes sense for her to have a semi-duality relationship with Penny.
Priya Koothrappali; hands down ISFp.
So how did I end up watching this show? Streamed the whole thing off the internet with an ex partner. I found it mildly funny and at least something to watch during the dark, cold, winter nights. The Big Bang Theory is in my view the most alpha filled TV show to play on television nowadays. Not because of the content, which is mostly Ti, Ne, Fe related drama, but because of the characters. It feels like a complete quadra drama every time I see it. I wish I could remember more details about the show, for example certain events or episodes, but it's been a year or two since I have seen it.
Last edited by wacey; 09-27-2013 at 06:23 PM.
He want to know the rules of social behavior, rules are very Te.Originally Posted by Wacey
He ignores Fi, is what I believe.
First, ILE don't like routine and Sheldon is the guy that has the most strict routine ever.
*Dislikes routine and any regimented, monotonous work. Cannot live by a strict schedule.*
EIE-Fe are like this:
*Irrespective of whether this person is modest or outstanding, he frequently lacks in naturalness.*
Sheldon lacks naturalness.
*The ethical subtype tries to behave according to the rules of what is considered to be appropriate in society.*
Sheldon ask a lot of questions about this to others.
*Internally he is emotional, but usually modest and constrained in his emotional expressions.*
Sheldon is specialy constrained in his emotions, letting them out as bursts.
*Find it difficult to relax due to internal strains, wounds, and overarching ambitions*
Sheldon is very ambitious.
*while internally suffering from a set of complexes, externally they appear proud and aloof.*
He is always telling everyone he is a genious and not crazy (his mother had him tested)
*Exacting in enforcing that their associates observe ethical standards of behavior and prone to rashly provide remarks and advice when they see people conflict with these ethical standards.*
Yeah, he's always doing that.
*Prudent and cautious. If he senses impending danger, he is capable of taking the necessary steps to avoid it. Inclined to over-dramatize events and warn others of potential problems. When he is trying to warn people close to him of potential dangers, he may undertake unnecessary initiative, even seem a bit obsessive and intrusive.*
Quotes are from the Type and Subtype Descriptions by V. Meged, A. Ovcharov.
^Nice use of quotes mate!
rules of social behavior are Te? Just wondering what you mean by that.
And I thought about it overnight and have come to the conclusion that I believe there is no way Sheldon Cooper is EIE. Like no way that character is Fe base.
Last edited by wacey; 09-28-2013 at 10:18 PM.
@Wacey
What is an Fe base from your POV?no way Sheldon Cooper is EIE. Like no way that character is Fe base.
Also, its not the same as ESE who delivers comfort as a product.
What Sheldon has to offer is Ni:
They are able to understand the essence of complex internal situations and make for potentially good analysts.
In life they loved to dramatize everything. Everyone around becomes informed about the slightest change in their mood or internal state.
Usually they are very fond of "making mountains out of molehills", for them this is a way to find work for their second function.
If anything, my friends say that when I was 14 years old, I was 100% similar to Sheldon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
After hanging out I have come to develop my/
behaviour.
Leonard is a horny LII, Raj is a naive SEI, Howard, a witty IEE, penny a plain ESE
ILE "Searcher"
Socionics: ENTp
DCNH: Dominant
Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
Astrological sign: Aquarius
To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.
I think penny might be SEI.
I know a SEI girl just like her, even the face, but she is a little bit heavier.
ahh leonard is the annoying guy in the balls i think. he's so whiney, and conforming, and boring, and blah, and so on.If anything, my friends say that when I was 14 years old, I was 100% similar to Sheldon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
After hanging out I have come to develop my
Leonard is a horny LII, Raj is a naive SEI, Howard, a witty IEE, penny a plain ESE
to me sheldon and penny are ok, and the rest are freaks.
did they ever hook up?
do you talk about your bathroom habits>?I think Sheldon is ILI.
My sister says I remind her of Sheldon.
Sheldon's an LII.
See:
-relationship with his dual ESE (his mother)
-lives outside sexuality ie Alpha Infantile
-all kinds of goofy, Alpha-esque fixations (trains, Legos, Star Trek, etc.)
-rigid (rational)
-an introvert (too focused on the soundness of his own, private conclusions)
Bernadette's an SEI.
I want to say Leonard's an EII 'cause he's so emo all the time.
Penny's an SF. She could be Alpha, but I lean towards Gamma, because of her conflict-ridden relationship with Sheldon. I say SEE.
Don't know about the rest.
Sheldon - LII
Leonard - IEI
Penny - SEE
Howard - IEE
Rajesh - ILE
Bernadette - ESI
Amy - ILE
Sheldon is ILE but the Actor is EIE
Sheldon has a lot of wierd neurotic traits, but he's a show off, he's the biggest show off on the show. This is a ILE trait not a LII trait. Leonard is the LII.
His OCD isn't really rationality, but neurotic
He has routines which imo is more territorial behavior or
Sheldon also doesn't have any problems breaking the law some of the time such as breaking into Penny's apartment to clean it. He's driven by how he sees the world not how anyone else sees it.
Also imo Sheldon is someone that interacts with people on a business level, the contract he has with Leonard, the way he has Facebook friends but doesn't interact with them. However through out the show his actions have a great effect on what happens, because he's always engaged in some work activity, he's only a recluse personally, professionally he's very outgoing and attention seeking.
Anyways, I don't think he's a introvert for various reasons and I think his relationship with Amy is almost unwatchable, the lack of chemistry is gag inducing.
Penny and Sheldon are the more natural match. Kelly Cuoco is SEI or ESE and I think the character is as well. To me this is the only thing worth watching about the show.
There's almost no information conflict in this relationship. Socionic conflict isn't about arguments. Through-out the show their relationship deepens due to these arguments but it's really communication of completely different information.
I think it's perhaps more appropriate to say ILE dislike other people's routine and they don't like regimented monotonous work, however Sheldon doesn't do regimented monotonous work, he always lambasts Leonard for doing derivative and trivial work.
Sheldon's routines are very personal and most likely neurotic and not really a great personality indicator.
When Einstein used to work with Godel they used to walk together everyday. Also often imo ILEs will have some routines which they have which will bookend their spontaneous time, like when they get to work or when they leave, but between that it's not routine at all.
I wouldn't say that he's much of a show off, he is narcissistic though. However, this is a general observation of ILEs rather than a something ordained by the Model A. What I would say is that Sheldon's leading function is Ti. Every decision he makes follows first from Logical Introverted Judgement... is this correct? Does this follow? Is this legal? What is the principle to this? Far more than an opportunity seeker (Ne lead), he is a rule creator and adherer, expecting similar compliance from others to almost idealistic standards (Ne in service of Ti). Sure, he breaks the national law by breaking into Penny's flat but Ti doesn't need to follow the law of the land. Ti follows the structures it has committed to and so a personal principle can transcend the morality of people he would consider to be lesser beings.Sheldon is ILE but the Actor is EIE
Sheldon has a lot of wierd neurotic traits, but he's a show off, he's the biggest show off on the show. This is a ILE trait not a LII trait. Leonard is the LII.
His OCD isn't really rationality, but neurotic
He has routines which imo is more territorial behavior or
Sheldon also doesn't have any problems breaking the law some of the time such as breaking into Penny's apartment to clean it. He's driven by how he sees the world not how anyone else sees it.
Also imo Sheldon is someone that interacts with people on a business level, the contract he has with Leonard, the way he has Facebook friends but doesn't interact with them. However through out the show his actions have a great effect on what happens, because he's always engaged in some work activity, he's only a recluse personally, professionally he's very outgoing and attention seeking.
Anyways, I don't think he's a introvert for various reasons and I think his relationship with Amy is almost unwatchable, the lack of chemistry is gag inducing.
Penny and Sheldon are the more natural match. Kelly Cuoco is SEI or ESE and I think the character is as well. To me this is the only thing worth watching about the show.
I would not say that he's professionally very outgoing either. He stays in his office working on his lofty theory and doesn't jump to new fields... in fact he looks down on any field that isn't his own. He doesn't seek to span out. He seeks to refine and go deeper to the root of the universe. I would like an example of him attention seeking as opposed to just acting in accordance to a principle or misguided sense of duty. I rarely see him acting selfishly (with Howard and Rajesh it's very much "Do I want this?", with Sheldon it's more a case of "it it correct to let these idiots fail at the task when it can succeed under my leadership?").
His OCD would be Si 2D Hidden Agenda... an ILE with 1D Si would find such activities too tiring or be too unaware of the clutter around them. The Suggestive function is one of almost blissful ignorance where one is positively surprised by input from others (look at Howard). The Mobilising function is one of exertion and effort in a vain attempt to reach mastery.
He is intellectually aggressive, that is true. He is however not at all physically capable. He is terrified of the dangerous outside world with all its unforgiving roughness. He insists on physical protection so that he isn't torn apart by reality... the haughty intellect fleeing before a barking dog. That would be Se vulnerablility.
Penny and Sheldon are not a natural match, their blatant conflict is a source of comedy.
I would say that Penny and Howard make great examples of a Semi-Dual relation. Very 'moth to the flame' where Fe-expectancy of emotional feedback "I love you" meets less pleasing personal Fi sentiments "oh, I'm not emotionally ready to say that yet". I would say that regardless of what Kaley is, her character is very much about impulse, taking the things that she desires, conquering men etc. She does not actually care about the physical quality of her environment (room's a tip) but instead is far more interested in whether she is experiencing something exhilarating. She likes to party, go out to bars, get drunk, kiss a hot guy. She's also no-nonsense, can very much take care of herself on a physical level. Very much Sensory Extroverted Irrational. Her attraction to Leonard comes from him being able to adapt to her desires and put things into a greater perspective. At the same time, Sheldon likes her fiesty love of life, she's no caregiver and certainly doesn't enjoy looking after Sheldon even though she does a good 3D Si job of it.
Ritualistic action is actually a very large part of Merry logic. The rituals and rites work with the group display of passion and enthusiasm.... Fe and Ti. It is however bizarre for an ILE to be caught up in ritual when there is an interesting opportunity to pursue.
I wouldn't call him
Cept there are ILE's like Tesla. There is just a little(more like a krap ton) of Tesla in this character, this is a guy who stayed in a hotel at the end of his life and was a total recluse, celibate. Also there are other ILE's and extroverts who did some of this in their later life like Howard Hughes.
He got beat up at lot in high school, when he gets drunk he beats up Wil Wheaton. Yea he's afraid of physical world because he is not strong enough to confront it, but he's not afraid of fighting, part of the reason why he gets beat up is because he's so conflict creating by proclaiming his superiority.
This isn't what real information conflict looks like, what Penny and Sheldon have is not really conflict. They don't understand each other, they don't get each other, they do strange things which can be exasperating but it's not information clash. The thing about information clash between conflict relations have is that you kinda of are conscious of exactly what is clashing because these are all conscious functions in play. The pain these conflicts cause are not mere flesh wounds. They aren't really conflicting, more bewildering each other.
I do think she might have been written as with some SEE characteristics, but the actress isn't, and the character isn't.
I wouldn't call him
Cept there are ILE's like Tesla. There is just a little(more like a krap ton) of Tesla in this character, this is a guy who stayed in a hotel at the end of his life and was a total recluse, celibate. Also there are other ILE's and extroverts who did some of this in their later life like Howard Hughes.
He got beat up at lot in high school, when he gets drunk he beats up Wil Wheaton. Yea he's afraid of physical world because he is not strong enough to confront it, but he's not afraid of fighting, part of the reason why he gets beat up is because he's so conflict creating by proclaiming his superiority.
This isn't what real information conflict looks like, what Penny and Sheldon have is not really conflict. They don't understand each other, they don't get each other, they do strange things which can be exasperating but it's not information clash. The thing about information clash between conflict relations have is that you kinda of are conscious of exactly what is clashing because these are all conscious functions in play. The pain these conflicts cause are not mere flesh wounds. They aren't really conflicting, more bewildering each other.
I do think she might have been written as with some SEE characteristics, but the actress isn't, and the character isn't.
Leonard is hardly a Ti lead. He just adjusts calmly to the environment, trying to get through the turmoil without taking much damage. He also tolerates bothersome conditions and cheers people up. At no point do we see principles leading the action. Legislation, rules and consistency are far less important to him than just getting by in the long term and he spends far more time making sure the people he is with are happy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqqWVjsC9L4 - Sheldon doesn't beat up Wil Wheaton. He gets completely drunk and goes to defend his girlfriend's honour but quickly takes the apology and vomits into the flower bed. The fact that he makes a laughable attempt at a stereotypically Se action on the one time he gets drunk only serves to highlight his Se ineptness... the idea that lifting his limitations and neuroses with alcohol leads him to attempt the thing he would NEVER do when in the right mind.
You are assuming that Nikola Tesla and Howard Hughes are ILEs. I am not of an opinion concerning these honourable gentlemen at present. However, referring to particular instances of people supposedly of a type (whose actions were in a very different context to those of Sheldon's) is a lesser feat to showing how the behaviours of the character in question fits the Model A structure of an LII or ILE. Show me how he is Leading Ne and Creative Ti. Show me why his Si is Suggestive and his Se only Role and then you will have a strong argument. At the moment, I have shown this in favour of LII and hence my argument is strong.
Actually, this is very much what Conflict looks like when there is an absence of a point of contention. When conflictors have nothing to conflict over, they are merely bemused by each other and lack understanding. With Duals and Activators, this bemusement is lacking, types of the same quadra share valued IM Elements and so there is a great deal of understanding. It's when conflictors talk neutrally that they realise they simply cannot appreciate what the other person sees as important. This, when coupled with a real issue, such as an actual wrong being done, leads to the most destructive breakdown with little cause of relief. For the sake of comedy, such a wrong is not made but the bemusement is kept. In the same way, when I am talking with an ESI, we do not spontaneously go into hostility, instead I just think how completely backward her way of thinking about the world is.
I have given a coherent argument that Penny is SEE. Simply supplying a contradictory statement is not sufficient to justify your position. I do hold that an actor and their character can be two different types which can make portrayals confusing to type but if you look at what Penny's character is and how her actions are written in the plot, she is a pretty stereotypical SEE.
What you see from Leonard most of the time isn't, but it's not his leading function, it's his role function. Role functions are contact functions, while leading is an inert function. I think this is a important stumbling block people have when typing. Leonard is a character that tries to mask his nerdiness but is still nerdy. Also imo his work life is not really show on screen, so it's hard to gauge his work life, but he is far less mercurial an individual vs Sheldon. The actor is IEI imo or EII.
I've shown he is aggressive, arrogant and demanding, I don't really consider him narcissistic because he knows his faults somewhat.
I think you're very wrong about this. Conflict quadra relations with the same static/dynamic dichotomy don't have as much misunderstanding as you think there is, and whatever misunderstanding is overcome, it creates very little desire to communicate closely. When conflictors/super-egos engage in a lot of interaction, all trust is destroyed and communication attempts are avoided. What has happened in Penny/Sheldon's relationship is that trust has been created and communication attempts are increased and they have changed each other greatly even as they still do not really understand each other. Duals and activity relationships have the least "understanding" in many ways because the super-id functions are both unconscious and weak, however as interactions increase one realizes this unknown is what is desirable.
I can see her as SEE maybe in season 1, but as she has developed in the comedy, she is no longer is SEE. Most of the traits you have said about her is no longer valid for her. Also I find that individuals who haven't had sufficient interaction with a dual or activity partner may exhibit a lot of ID behavior because their ego behavior hasn't been properly rewarded.
You can make a coherent argument all you want, but ultimately the developments within the show doesn't fit. This could be inconsistent writing, actors playing a role that doesn't fit them and various different things.
Also this tidbit, this character has been recast to be less mean, which could indicate the writing for this character was much different in the beginning versus now.
I don't really see this show as very naturalistic show so the typing and type of characters may not remain the same.
It's pretty slippery territory to assert that a person's Role might be more noticeable over time than their Leading function. Contact/Inert is about potential for growth and development, not about the functions of the Super-Ego block being more apparent to a person than the Ego block. The whole point of a 2D function is that it isn't on most of the time but is switched on for limited bursts when needed.What you see from Leonard most of the time isn't
He refuses to allow his faults to tarnish his sense of superiority. That is narcissism.
It's perfectly conceivable that an LII can be demanding, arrogant and even aggressive in the intellectual sphere. The only reason why Extroverted Sensation is seen as 'aggressive' is because it's most responsible for physical confidence, navigating concrete information and taking the advantage in the present. You may notice that the people who are most combative on forums like this are actually Intuitive and Logical where conflicts are not over physical space, ownership or territory but theoretical correctness.
I would not say that the source of misunderstanding is a difference in the Static/Dynamic dichotomy. I think it enlightens on how the IM Elements work (as with temperaments) and are applied but I don't think a Static type can't appreciate how a Dynamic type thinks. Do you have an article that explains your point of view? From experience, I would say that Duals and Activity partners have a great deal of understanding. The vital/mental divide is more to do with whether a person is actively aware of their deficits or not... with the Vulnerable being a pressing issue and the Suggestive being an ignorance that is enlightened. As for conflictors, the source of conflict is that the very premise upon which the world turns for a type, the leading function, is openly rejected as bad by the other and vice versa. Fundamental to it is a sheer lack of appreciation for what each type lives for... The ILE suppresses and rejects personal sentiments and judgements as an obstacle to the pursuit of the new and interesting. The ESI rejects new opportunities and possibilities for change in fear that they will tarnish moral integrity and go against their personal sentiments. Their life philosophies are opposing and thus there can never be appreciation. In fact I think that Static/Dynamic needs to be the same for this direct contradiction and thus lack of appreciation. When it comes to Duals, the two types have different, compatible philosophies where each has overlooked the other and can do with its assistance.
Perhaps our disagreement here is on what is being misunderstood. I am using it in the term of values... understanding X as being good rather than a bad thing. An ILE cannot begin to understand how someone like the ESI should say that Ne should be restricted as a threat to the good Fi.
When it comes to Penny, it's apparent that she doesn't like Sheldon's Ti-centric approach. She has no appreciation or respect for his rules and systems or the general or even Ne+Ti 'intellectual play'. Her development in the series has been one of tolerance, not appreciation and she continues to see Sheldon as a strange being that is better left alone.
This shows that she was originally meant to be a hard, possible Se-centric character. Rather than create a whole new character, it's more feasible that they just chose a softer, nicer person to fill the same sort of role for the sake of keeping things comic. This does not stop her being an SEE.
I would agree that consistency of character is a different thing in Tv shows like this (which is why I have had difficulty with Howard and Rajesh in the past). I do think that Penny has stayed pretty consistent however and I have not seen any sign of an Si or Fe lead... she doesn't proactively try to keep the group in a certain mood, she's not a happy entertainer or hostess and she doesn't keep herself comfortable and relaxed. She is short tempered, moody and a tad impetuous.She is far more of a life-loving, impulsive, perhaps even aggressive (in a non-intellectual sphere) sort of person who has been stuck in a very alien environment and has had to begrudgingly adjust to survive, sticking with Leonard as the only relatable, Ni-leading source of sanity to her.
I won't talk Leonard because I think the writing for the character is so bland and boring it's not really worth commenting on.
The big part of narcissism isn't feeling superior imo, it's deflecting faults. He also doesn't do a great deal of magical thinking which is another trait of narcissism.
As far as conceivably LII's being demanding arrogant and aggressive, take someone like Krig, or Logos, they look like they're combative to you? Now look at Bolt, or me, or any of the ILE's.... Which one fits? Anyways he still has weakbut he also has weak
It's more about appreciation and a complementary personalities than "understanding", people will call it "understanding" but it's not exactly the same. A good way to think of a super-ego is like your evil twin.
One will have a much harder time emulating your dual than your supervisor or super-ego imo. I think super-ego development in many ways is a method by which individuals are able to cope with their adjacent and conflicting quadra, but still in small doses.
I don't see why the need for debate, I simply don't think the character is consistant season to season. She seems to genuinely enjoy being around them, it's not really grudging.
Magical thinking may at times be a secondary trait of narcissism but it would be odd for such a trait to occur in an LII.The big part of narcissism isn't feeling superior imo, it's deflecting faults. He also doesn't do a great deal of magical thinking which is another trait of narcissism.
As far as conceivably LII's being demanding arrogant and aggressive, take someone like Krig, or Logos, they look like they're combative to you? Now look at Bolt, or me, or any of the ILE's.... Which one fits? Anyways he still has weak
What about Robespierre's reign of terror?
His Fi isn't delivered in the way that ILEs tend to use it... the basic pattern is that the ILE attempts Fe, cracking jokes, trying to ease tension, and ends up making a social gaffe by misjudging the sensitivity and as a result shrivels from inferiority. This is quite clear in characters such as Amy and Rajesh. With Sheldon he just says his own opinion with no interest in how others may react to it because logically it is justified and that is more important than anything else. At the same time, he is very aware of his personal feelings and sentiments on matters, things which he goes to when not using logic. This suggests a functioning Fi without Fe to make things more palatable to the group. He does fail from a disinterest in Fi but he is not Vulnerable to Fi like Amy and Rajesh are. However, he is certainly Vulnerable towards things he finds physically threatening. This would be a coherent explanation of his Super Ego and Super Id. As for the Ego block which should be the first port of call for typing by IM Element, it is pretty clear that Ti reigns supreme as the leading function.
Actually, I would say that your Quasi-Identical is like your evil twin.
You mean Kurt Godel and his belief in ghosts, supernatural and God?
Robespierre was also a skill orator and charming fellow, anyways there's plenty of ILE's in this thread that relate to Sheldon, why is that? Also the character is more or less very much like Tesla, with the OCD, strange behavior, celibacy, etc so you might want to type that individual as it's a real individual. However, don't make the mistake of biasing things because of a inconsistently written fictional character. Lorre's shows don't really have consistent characters.
Quasi-Identicals aren't really twinish. Supervision ring share same thinking style but different values, the super ego also shared temperament. Shared thinking style(process/result, static/dynamic), shared temperament with different values and activities, it's like a mirror image.
Quasi's differ on rationality/irrationality, thinking styles. They however share activity thru clubs and the same extroversion/introversion, this makes Quasi more rivals and co-workers.
Quasi relations aren't nearly as prone to serious conflict as Super-ego because although there are some information problems there isn't the constant super-ego problems. They're more understandable than your dual/activity due to shared strong functions but there is also a lack of appreciation/sympathy.
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ical-Relations
There is a variety of descriptions concerning this relations, so what I am saying is not inconsistent with many of them.
Also I must say @silke has done a rocking job on these articles, I don't know how she does it.
Sheldon ILE > LII. Disliked by many people because he says weird things aloud. LIIs, on the contrary, are usually respected by people.
Leonard LII. A blatant
Raj SEI. Does useless things just for fun.
Howard IEE
Bernadette SLI. Zero social intelligence,
Amy LII. Nerdy but "normal" enough.
Penny SEE. Has a warm relationship with Sheldon, but she dislikes nerdy stuff.
Female scientist who sleeps with Leonard ESI?
Female scientist who dislikes Sheldon ILI?
ILE "Searcher"
Socionics: ENTp
DCNH: Dominant
Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
Astrological sign: Aquarius
To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.
Sheldon - LII
Amy -LII
Penny - SEE
Leonard - LSI
Raj - IEE
Howard - ILE
Bernadette -SEI
Best fits IMO
Remember they are actors who praying characters that may or not be the same type. Some of there personal traits will carry over.
Last edited by Phantom Shadow; 04-10-2015 at 07:18 PM.
MBTI: INTJ
Socionics:ILI (Ni-Fi)
Enneagram Type: 5w4
Enneagram Tritype: Head-5, Gut-9 Heart-4
Instinctal Stacking: Sp/Sx Mid
Jung's 12 Archetypes: Self-Sage, Ego-Hero, Soul-Rebel
oy, people relate me to Sheldon and Penny. I have some quirky characteristics of both. Many things in common with Sheldon. I used to be hooked on the show because of him...my perfect reflection. I am not so socially awkward though.
Leonard annoys me to no end and ILI usually don't annoy me after the initial grace period of getting to know them.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Hey these are actually pretty good.
Leonard is judgmental and whiny. Feels victimized by his mother but somehow has the self confidence to approach Penny, even though he is socially awkward, even more so than Sheldon, in my opinion. Napoleon syndrome, perhaps.. What type would that be?
Raj is oversensitive and shy around opposite sex (glad they ended that has to be drunk storyline). He has a big ego underneath it all and a sense of entitlement bestowed upon him by his rich parents and culture. He really only wants to be loved and accepted for who he is. He is not superficial when it comes to women... considering his little mousy love interest. He is open.
I am just going by the characters without delving into the actors personality coming through.
I like SEE for Penny.
Edit: Reading this thread from the bottom up. My posts are a bit redundant.
Last edited by Aylen; 03-11-2014 at 07:47 AM.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Leonard Hofstadter - IEI or IEE
Sheldon Coooper - ESI
Howard Wolowitz - ILE (EIE is my second choice)
Rajesh Koothrappali - SEI
Bernadette Rostenkowski - LSI
Amy Farrah Fowler - ILI
SEE makes perfect sense for Penny. She frequently uses Se, and there's little if any regard for Si from her. She has strong Fe, but it's not a huge focus for her.
Leonard is clearly ethical with weak Se. I haven't given his type all that much thought yet. If you consider that his mother is LSI, then IEE makes more sense than IEI.
Bernadette's cartoonish voice doesn't really fit for LSI, but on whole it makes the most sense. Strong logic, strong Se, strong Si. Her approach to life and people seems more Beta than any other quadra. Gamma would be a close second.
I definitely prefer ESI for Sheldon. His insistence that he's objectively right about things that are clearly subjective preferences (things along the lines of saying that anyone who thinks one particular character/movie is better than another is clearly wrong) is not at all unusual for Fi dominants. (I've seen A LOT of this, actually.) He also shows no lack of Se. I don't see any intuition at all though, and I do think an intuitive PoLR works well for him. He's very clear on his likes and dislikes of everything and everyone around him. He also shows no regard for how his preferences and stubborn insistence on have things a certain way (much of which could make perfect sense as demonstrative Si) affect the group atmosphere, and if someone points it out he doesn't waver. Fe ignoring is a better fit than dual seeking or PoLR. His offering hot beverages to sad people and accepting gift giving as a social convention are both examples of 2D Fe. Also, wouldn't conflict with Howard and activity with Amy make much more sense than mirror and super ego? Also, even when he and Penny disagree with each other, they understand each other quite well and communicate without misunderstanding.
Last edited by Joy; 03-15-2015 at 05:53 PM.
I think this show has a lot of poorly defined personalities in terms of socionic type.
Leonard Hofstadter- LxI- One of those ones that use their Ti almost like an ethical function i.e. defining norms for behavior.
Sheldon Cooper- ILE- Normalizing subtype
Howard Wolowitz- IEE or ILE- He is a bit of a watered down character. You could probably give him a different type based on the show he is in.
Rajesh Koothrapali- He's a hard one but he strikes me as Fi creative so maybe IEE or SEE. (I think Kunal Nayyar is very possibly SEE)
Bernadette- LSI doesn't seem too bad. Also a watered-down character.
Amy Fowler- ILI
Penny- No clue. Some shows she really seems SEE and others she strikes as more EJ. I wouldn't be surprised if you could type her as like LSE or something along those lines. I think she has the most variable personality in the whole show.
Sheldon - alpha NT
Howard - ILE (IEE?)
Raj - SEI
Bernadette- ESI
Amy - ILE
Penny- SEE (could be ESE)
Leonard -
The point of this thread is to discuss the typings of the characters.
If you don't have anything constructive to say, please refrain from posting in this thread.
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
The interesting thing about BBT is that it promotes itself as a smart nerdy show and many people are claiming it's intellectual just because the characters are stating as many nerdy factual info in minute as possible when the humor was always on retard level. It's a sour smile on a good day.
Not to say I haven't watched many episodes
How come it's not funny? I usually laugh my ass off watching it.It's faux intellectual - sure, but so what? It's supposed to be a comedy. It doesn't mean the same things are gonna make everyone laugh. But I guess you're just posting your opinion. I just don't understand why it's posted in a way reminiscent to some kind of universal truth on what can and can't be funny.
Yeah, I agree. I have a hard time seeing why people *don't* find anything funny about this show. It's not to say I find every joke funny. I don't. But I find enough to enjoy to keep watching. I also like quirky characters even if they are a bit exaggerated for effect.How come it's not funny? I usually laugh my ass off watching it.
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
I know it's just your opinion. But the neurotic side of me feels hurt- my instinctual reaction is a combination of sheer puzzlement: "How could you not like this? It's awesome" immediately followed by "I am okay to like this? Maybe I'm flawed in some way."
I know it's a very unhealthy mindset to have and coming from someone who is normally logical and rational about things makes it worse because I cannot seem to control these reactions when people make such remarks.
I know not everyone reacts in this way or takes it quite so personal but some people do.
What I like or what I'm interested in isn't everything about me as a person but it is an important part of my identity nonetheless. So when someone puts down something I happen to like, it's kind of like a part of my identity is rejected in a way. I don't know why I tend to feel this way and other people don't.
When people respond back with things like "I'll say whatever I want to say -- if you don't like it, then that's not my problem." to me that's hurtful even though I know from a purely rational view that the other person is just stating an opinion and wasn't intending to hurt anyone by it. I guess because I feel like my emotional reaction was unvalidated and I feel misunderstood. It's better if the other person apologizes or tones down the statement a bit or even tries to find some point where we can both agree.
I know that's not always realistically possible though.
Maybe socionics has some useful insights here...........
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
The thing is, it isn't just TV shows, but I have a similar reaction towards everything that people try to put down if it's something I'm personally passionate about. Music is even worse for me that way. Which is why I rarely share it with people. You never know what they're really going to think and how they'll respond.
I don't know, it's just weird. It's like I want people to be a carbon copy of myself in a way, where the only difference between us is impersonal factors like physical appearance. The person shares my feelings on everything, we can totally be open about our interests to each other and are interests will never be scorned. We share our interests together and it's mutual enjoyment for both of us. I long to have that kind of thing in my relations with others more than just about anything.
If there's something that interests me, I long to share it with others, to have them be positively receptive to it. However, it's inevitable that not everyone will share every single interest with me or my feelings about things. People are different!!! Thus hurt or disappointment in this way is inevitable. Particularly in my childhood, I would thrust my interests upon others, expect them to respond positively and be greatly disappointed if they didn't. In a sense I was kind of like Sheldon on Big Bang Theory- had esoteric interests and expected others to be into them too along with total social awkwardness and Asperger-like traits.
Eventually, after receiving enough 'negative feedback' from family, peers, etc. I sort of retreated inward on myself, feeling like hardly anything about myself was safe for sharing with other people. I learned to rely on my self and enjoy my interests *alone* where they are free from any scorn whatsoever. To this day, I still feel like it's hard to really get emotionally close to people for precisely that reason. Because I know emotional conflict will be inevitable and I don't feel well equipped enough to handle it.
I'm fine with discussion and differing views on impersonal things like scientific theories but when it's personal matters such as the things I enjoy doing for fun or my preferences for TV, music, art, etc., I feel like some of those areas are 'untouchable'- don't insult it or you will pay the price.
I feel like this is a rather selfish view to take though, because people are inherently different with different opinions on things.
For example, with socionics, I'm okay with discussing the merits as well as the shortcomings of different theories and comparing/contrasting them. I enjoy this very much and I appreciate different views and not hurt by disagreement. But if someone said "socoinics is just garbage and it's not worth spending time on" then I would be hurt by that.
I don't dare bring up socionics with family members for instance, because they'd likely have that reaction.
Makes sense?
I've also noticed, that we are both Fe valuing types but I think it might play out somewhat differently in beta than alpha. If you're familiar with model B, the signs on the functions, alpha has -Fe, wants to minimize negative emotions. Beta has +Fe wants to maximize positive emotions. But I also think beta Fe might be more inclined than alpha Fe to make negative emotional expressions in form of "I hate that, it's garbage!" What's important for them, is free expression of feeling, to get the feelings out there. I think alpha Fe might be a little different in that regard- it's about a positive emotional atmosphere and it's fine to feel negative feelings but sometimes it's better to not express them if someone could potentially be hurt.
For me personally, I'm all about minimizing negative emotions. That's a even a bigger priority than maximizing positive emotions. I don't want to risk potential negative emotions even if the end result could be greater positive emotions.
But I'm just speculating here so I can't say if this applies to all alphas. As an EIE beta, what's your take on this?
Also, assuming I've typed myself as LII correctly, I see myself as a truth seeker. But this is mainly logical, impersonal truths. Workings of the universe and such and logical systems. Emotional truths on the other hand is a completely different story. Sometimes I prefer not to know how someone *really* feels about something, if it could potentially be unpleasant to me. Make sense?
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
I understood you the first time McBain. What I was getting at is that you probably wouldn't incite the reaction you got from LIIbrarian had you used the tiny phrase "imo" when stating your preference or even saying "I don't like this show" instead of the more general sounding "What a garbage show". And LIIbrarian wouldn't read it as a veiled attack on her preferences. If you actually gave your typings of the characters (given you've watched enough to mark the show as garbage) then even better as it's meant to be a typing thread. But sth tells me you already know all that but you like seeing people's reactions.
It's just stuff that I used to be very oblivious to in the past and that caused people getting angry with me for what to me seemed to be just stating my opinion. /dr. Phil talk - Imnotgoodatthis
edit: But the above discussion was interesting to read.
edit 2: I checked it on yt without the laugh track. Yup, still makes me lol.
Last edited by aisa; 03-16-2015 at 02:29 PM.
His energy is like a worm and worms are yuck. His character makes me want to punch him in the face. How is that for being emotionally invested in a show... hahah I like the other characters though. Sheldon is my favorite, of course. He is like my inner child, in some ways, like all naive, so I want to protect his childlike nature. heh The show makes me lol and I don't find most shows lol funny. I usually have more of a dark, sarcastic, witty, humor preference, even though I can be totally goofy when I am being funny. BUT I recently started watching another show that makes me lol too. Only because I lived in NJ and get the humor in it.Leonard -
Last edited by Aylen; 03-16-2015 at 02:36 PM. Reason: link
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Lol, I'm very invested into shoving him into a wall too. Big bang is something to watch during lunch, because it's relaxing and you can see all the jokes from a mile away, so you don't have to pay special attention : ) I often watch it together with my bff, and much more than show it's funny to watch her as she's rolling on the floor from laughter, and I'm just sitting there with ?? on my face
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