ENTP or ENFP?

[Joy]

Ive always thought discojoe was the victim of childhood abuse I just ignore him. I dont find his humor very funny, nor do I find his reasoning very enlightening.

that post belongs in this thread
http://oldforumlinkviewtopic.php?t=1...er=asc&start=0

[Topaz]

Ive always thought discojoe was the victim of childhood abuse I just ignore him. I dont find his humor very funny, nor do I find his reasoning very enlightening.

that post belongs in this thread
http://oldforumlinkviewtopic.php?t=1...er=asc&start=0

I know but when I got to the bottom of the thread it had trailed off into something else. I just cant keep up these days. Thanks Joy.

[Joy]

never be shy about bringing a hijacked thread back on topic

[discojoe]

Ive always thought discojoe was the victim of childhood abuse I just ignore him. I dont find his humor very funny, nor do I find his reasoning very enlightening.

jealous

[Topaz]

Ive always thought discojoe was the victim of childhood abuse I just ignore him. I dont find his humor very funny, nor do I find his reasoning very enlightening.

jealous

Youre home from school early today.

[discojoe]

Ive always thought discojoe was the victim of childhood abuse I just ignore him. I dont find his humor very funny, nor do I find his reasoning very enlightening.

jealous

Youre home from school early today.

I'm not in school.

[Kim]

Ive always thought discojoe was the victim of childhood abuse I just ignore him. I dont find his humor very funny, nor do I find his reasoning very enlightening.

jealous

Of what??

[discojoe]

Ive always thought discojoe was the victim of childhood abuse I just ignore him. I dont find his humor very funny, nor do I find his reasoning very enlightening.

jealous

Of what??

lol

[Gilly]

I know I've had polls, and I know that I've hijacked at least one thread from everyone here to talk about my type, and I'm fully aware that you're all probably sick and tired of my babble. However, all arguments have been inconclusive, so I want to hash it out once and for all. I'm open to any viewpoints, as long as they're realistic and qualified; indeed, I want to hear as many sides to this arguement as I can. Just be straight with me. Tell me what you see, how you perceive me, what you can connect my words/actions to, etc. I'm willing to hear anything, as long as it's realistic.

I'm going to kick it off by pirating one of discojoe's ideas. The bold parts are definitely me, and the italic parts are variable/questionable. The parts that are both are REALLY, REALLY me (as in I didn't think anyone else in the world was like this and my jaw dropped when I read it). Underlined parts are my comments.

ENTP

ENTps normally have a long, slim figure. Other parts of the body are also stretched, especially the legs and fingers. They often have rounded shoulders. Sometimes ENTps have a characteristic inwardly sloping chin. Because of their particular physical structure their clothes always seem to fit pretty badly, often slipping down and hanging off them in an unflattering manner. Their buttons also seem to have a habit of falling off.

ENTps usually have a distant, far away look in their eyes and it often seems as though they are paying little attention to what is going on. During conversation ENTps like to play with objects, like a pen for example, often accidentally breaking it. They may gesticulate when passionately telling a story.

ENTps do not know how to keep the right psychological distance with people. This becomes especially noticeable during long term interaction. One day they can be friendly and the next day they can be completely opposite. They often behave unceremoniously and can rudely butt in on others conversations. ENTps can also find it difficult to evaluate how others feel about them and therefore can make mistakes when choosing friends.

ENTps like to explore everything and are usually completely unaware of how others react to this. They often propose ideas that although have great potential are completely impractical at the time. As usual, they soon forget about that idea and generate a new one, which has no less potential and originality but has no logical connection with the previous.ENTps pay little or no respect to their past achievements. They hardly ever admit when they are at fault. Even if they apologise formally they usually continue to behave the same as before.

ENTps are interested in and talk about everything that is new and unusual even if it is not in their main field of knowledge. It is as if they are magnetised by all brand new theories and are fascinated by all phenomena that can not be explained with logic or reason, for example: ESP, telekinesis and UFO's. They cannot logically explain their ideas as they are always intuitive and vague. Most people cannot fully comprehend their concepts, they simply believe or do not believe.

This last part is rediculously me. I like to call it "trying to play a symphony with a harmonica."

The main peculiarity of ENTps behaviour is an incredible absent-mindedness. They usually leave items where they used them and have a tendency to constantly lose smaller objects. ENTps work place and personal belongings are often kept in disarray. They invariably forget what they have already done and what they need to do. However, they are quick and shrewd in day to day matters, taking advantage of every opportunity that arises. Because of this others may consider them to be crafty or shifty.

The other main peculiarity of ENTps behaviour is the ability to mobilise in extreme conditions. If somebody puts pressure on them they immediately counterattack, often with more than equal force. They also like to give people advice on how to extricate themselves from difficult entanglements, often proposing the most radical solutions. If ENTps are not interested in a particular job, they try to leave it until the last moment. Then in very short period of time they can complete all awaiting jobs, but of course the quality suffers.

One more peculiarity is the element of chaos and destruction that ENTps bring to every field of their activity. This is especially noticeable in well established institutions where strong discipline is commonplace. However, they implement this chaotic element creatively, generating reform from the destruction. Because of this quality ENTps often become leaders.

ENFp

ENFps are normally either tall and often quiet even though they are extrovert or short and full figured. The latter are more movable and energetic and their gait is quick and erratic. ENFps often walk with their feet apart. Slim ENFps often have a crafty look in their eyes. Sometimes, when they are inactive, their faces can have an astonished look about them.

Generally ENFps have straight proportional noses. Full figured ENFps have corpulent faces and quite often a nice smile. Their facial structure is rather round with softer edges. They seem to always be in a good mood. They like to have fun, to laugh and to joke. They can also have flashing eyes which combines very well with their overall playful disposition. ENFps pay great attention to their appearance.

ENFps choice of clothes and accessories are quite characteristic especially in women. They often neglect some part of their outfit which can give a romantic and liberated feeling to their style. All ENFps dress in a way that indicates a sense of the theatrical.

Male ENFps, with their charming, complimentary and affable manner are quite successful when it comes to conquering the hearts of the opposite sex. (Not to brag or anything :wink: ) Because of female ENFps playful dispositions, they can sometimes go over the top without realising, which often provokes a strong response from males. If they see the males taking their behaviour seriously they may try to halt the proceedings. If this is insufficient they can resort to physical action.

Generally ENFps are very emotional and spontaneous during interactions. They know how to find that special way of dealing with almost anybody. ENFps are quite comfortable to talk to and are talented interlocutors. They often help people to extricate themselves from difficult situations. Their advice is normally based on ethical grounds. NFps are often optimistic and it is not uncommon for them to transfer this optimism to others.

ENFps pay the least attention possible to details. This is often interpreted by others as superficiality. This peculiarity enables ENFps to swallow lots of information without chewing it. After taking the cream from the surface of one sphere of interests ENFps can become bored and start looking for different interests. They often change their interests. Wherever ENFps go they have a characteristic ability to create a circle of friends and acquaintances and be at the centre of attention. They respect and preserve the opinions of the circle, taking an active part in defending and promoting them.

- This basically describes what I do with my free time. I move from online debates to mock trials to psychology...it never ends. I tend to spend a few months pursuing one interest and gathering knowlege, then when it's lost it's novelty, I drop it like a ton of bricks and find something else.

ENFps are quick to mobilise themselves in extreme situations. When in the midst of chaos and panic they are able to take control of the situation if there is no one else available or willing. However in day to day life they are usually quite disorganised and do not cope well with routine matters. They also do not perform well at all when it comes to dealing with documentation.

ENFps are very sociable types and are driven towards the easy life. They are very dependent on their desires. They do not mind spending a fair amount of money just to fulfil these desires. ENFps also strive for adventure, improvisation and unplanned actions.

*pant*

Now that we've done descriptions, let me give a few examples of how I perceive some of my intertype relations with people

ESTj: Activity
ENTj: Something between quasi-identity and semi-dual
ENFj: My beneficiary
INFp: Illusionary
INTj: Mirror
ESTp: Super-ego
ISTp: Semi-dual/Conflict
ENFp: Comparative

(I wish I could come up with an inter-type for ENTp, but I've never met another one in real life)

My (abridged) arguments for both types:

ENTp:
-Teachers always tell me I try to "over-analyze" things
-I'm a quick learner; I'm always the first one in a class to understand a new concept or equation and how to use it
-I sometimes do things without regard as to how it will affect others, and I often ignore others' opinions if I'm convinced that mine is superior

ENFp
-When I'm under stress, I can react emotionally to just about any kind of negative behavior
-I have to have positive emotions from other people to keep me away from stress/depression
-(this is more Delta than just ENFp, but...)I'm an "action" oriented person: when I have an idea that I believe in, I try to convince others that I'm right and that something should be done

I'll post more later; eventually, I'm going to do a highliting thing for Mcnew's descriptions on socion.info.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Gilly]

I'd never seen anyone else do it that way, but whatever you say.

I'm going to ignore your flawed logic and wait for someone to provide a reasonable opinion.

[Joy]

I still don't know what you are.... but if I had to guess I'd say ENTp.

[Gilly]

Ugh...this is exactly what I didn't want: people coming in and saying "Well I think [insert groundless opinion]." I want a "why."

Whatever.

[Joy]

okay I will say why later... I'm going to my building science class now

[Rocky]

You're an ENTp because you reason everything out logically. Even trying to find your type, you lay everything out in a logical manner, picking apart the facts (systems?). I thought you were more of a logical type even before you got here, they way you argued things on ENTP.org. When you get started, your mind pushes away other people's feelings to get your point across. You might think that you consider other people's feelings, but in the heat of the moment, all of that concious effort to consider other goes away, and you've let blunt things slip through.

None of the ENFps on here said that they think you have (I believe Kim, Young and Confused, and NFp- are a few that have actually said the opposite), and I don't think you are a Delta, either.

[Creepy-Diana]

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[Gilly]

Good for you.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Expat]

I think Rocky is probably right.

No way you are an ENFp. Even ESTp would be more likely. ENTp wins, even if by default.

Diana made a good point.

[Gilly]

Good example here, if you're interested. No, "oh, I guess I was wrong." No, "oh yeah, I guess me and discojoe aren't the only 2 people on the board after all." Just "good for you." That is an example of why you are not ENFp.

You obviously don't have anything to say that has not already been said. So, quite honestly, I could care less.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Gilly]

I do care, but only about things that are substantiated.

[science as magic]

I'm open to any viewpoints, as long as they're realistic and qualified; indeed, I want to hear as many sides to this arguement as I can.

Define your criteria.

I see you as kind of a dork and not really a "tough guy" which is why I think you think you are feeling.

[Gilly]

lol, I'm a dork....says an INTj.

I want people to point certain things about my behavior and whether those things imply thinking or feeling.

[Gilly]

You're an ENTp because you reason everything out logically. Even trying to find your type, you lay everything out in a logical manner, picking apart the facts (systems?).

Would I try to figure out my type subjectively? Is that possible? Can anything be determined from biased information other than how people feel about me?

[science as magic]

This is the internet so the way you behave in real life is not necessarily transmitted via this medium.

lol, I'm a dork....says an INTj.

I could always use the "we sense our own kind" argument.

[Creepy-Diana]

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[Creepy-Diana]

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[Gilly]

Why is it that people think I'm trying to be like discojoe?

Where did I contradict myself?

*confusion*

[Kim]

I think the text you quoted leaves out what is, in my mind, the most essential thing about being an ENFp and that is the use of . Yes, I have said it a milllion times before, but here we go again:

Topaz provided this about the delta mood:

Introverted Feeling does not like its emotions laid out for the public to walk on. It is subtle, removed, focused on principles and intergrity etc. All that personal emotion is reserved for just a few. Everyone else gets principled kindness.

I have said elsewhere:

I'm about establishing relationships and I don't like conflict (although I can be very confrontational when I feel something is not just). So I "feel" people and their needs, sometimes to the extreme that I get paranoid about little signals.

Can other ENFps find themselves there? Do you feel you are self-sacrificing in an emotional sense? I would never give up my dreams and visions, don't get me wrong, but when it comes to direct interpersonal contact, I'm so damn forgiving and caring, it makes me sick...

ENFp can establish boundaries to avoid the above, but I daresay it's a conscious effort to do so.

Every single ENFp here is kind and considerate and has strong principles when it comes to dealing with the emotions and feelings of other people. You do not show that. There are two things that people constantly say about ENFps: They are enthusiastic and they are warm. Every ENFp is BOTH.

Compare what you highlighted in the ENFp description. ALL of those can easily apply to an ENTp. What is missing in the description is the ENFp genuine interest in and concern for people's emotions, feelings and

well-being

(I'm actually surprised that that is not part of the description). ENFps DO NOT insult others for fun. They will not even easily insult others in an argument.


Bottom line: No , no ENFp.
I do think manifests itself differently depending on experience and maturity for ENFps. But it's always there and OFTEN a struggle. Read some of the ENFp threads to find out.

You are not an ENFp. You are an ENTp. And don't go down the road of how you relate to other ENTps on the forum or how they relate to you: I think ENTps can actually feel antagonistic towards other ENTps when they feel that their precious ENTpness is threatened by someone who comes across as a bit different. ENTps do not relate to other people very well.

But I will also say that it is interesting that so far no Delta has expressed that you come across as Delta. I think Deltas generally feel other Deltas. That might not be enough grounds to base typing on (as I said), but it's something you should consider. Deltas DO relate to other people.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that you are not an ENFp and I'm fairly sure you are ENTp. You are so much like other ENTps here.

Suck it up, dude! :wink:

[diamond]

Good for you.

Good example here, if you're interested. No, "oh, I guess I was wrong." No, "oh yeah, I guess me and discojoe aren't the only 2 people on the board after all." Just "good for you." That is an example of why you are not ENFp.

That's hiliarious! hahahahaha

[Slacker]

Another ENFp vote that you most definitely are not an ENFp. You throw out little barbs at people and we're all about passing along information (even potentially hurtful information) as diplomatically as possible.

[diamond]

You are not an ENFp. You are an ENTp. And don't go down the road of how you relate to other ENTps on the forum or how they relate to you: I think ENTps can actually feel antagonistic towards other ENTps when they feel that their precious ENTpness is threatened by someone who comes across as a bit different. ENTps do not relate to other people very well.

That's tellin him (us)!!!

[diamond]

Face it gilligan. You're entp. Welcome to the low club!

Learn it.
Live it.
Love it.

Heh.

[Kim]

You are not an ENFp. You are an ENTp. And don't go down the road of how you relate to other ENTps on the forum or how they relate to you: I think ENTps can actually feel antagonistic towards other ENTps when they feel that their precious ENTpness is threatened by someone who comes across as a bit different. ENTps do not relate to other people very well.

That's tellin him (us)!!!

Ahhh, I had you in mind when I wrote that, dear, as the grand exception! We all know that I think you relate to people like few others. Let me add then: Immature ENTps.

Contradict me, please! I'm as biased as everyone else here!

[discojoe]

gilligan, I honestly don't know you well enough to type you. If I were to have more interactions with you I'd be able to form a conclusion. I know three ENFps personally, and all three of them are very intellectual, quick, and charismatic, so the possession of logical abilities doesn't necessarily imply a certain type. I feel like everyone's reasoning on this issue is faulty. My intuition says you're ENTp, if it's any help.

Kelly says she senses many similarities between you and I, which is a kind of intuitive hunch which I believe holds merit. However, you come off as "sloppier" than I, less proud.

[diamond]

You are not an ENFp. You are an ENTp. And don't go down the road of how you relate to other ENTps on the forum or how they relate to you: I think ENTps can actually feel antagonistic towards other ENTps when they feel that their precious ENTpness is threatened by someone who comes across as a bit different. ENTps do not relate to other people very well.

That's tellin him (us)!!!

Ahhh, I had you in mind when I wrote that, dear, as the grand exception! We all know that I think you relate to people like few others. Let me add then: Immature ENTps.

You're so sweet!

Actually, I'm probably nicer on the forum than I am in real life, since on the forum, I get a chance to think about things. Heh. But I'm nicer IRL now than I ever have been!

I agree with you though, gilligan does not show enfp-ness.

[discojoe]

You are not an ENFp. You are an ENTp. And don't go down the road of how you relate to other ENTps on the forum or how they relate to you: I think ENTps can actually feel antagonistic towards other ENTps when they feel that their precious ENTpness is threatened by someone who comes across as a bit different. ENTps do not relate to other people very well.

That's tellin him (us)!!!

Ahhh, I had you in mind when I wrote that, dear, as the grand exception! We all know that I think you relate to people like few others. Let me add then: Immature ENTps.

You're so sweet!

Actually, I'm probably nicer on the forum than I am in real life, since on the forum, I get a chance to think about things. Heh. But I'm nicer IRL now than I ever have been!

I agree with you though, gilligan does not show enfp-ness.

Do you know what enfp-ness is?

[discojoe]

LOL ENFpenis. ahahahahahhaha

[Kim]

Damn, I just laughed about a quintessential ENTp joke! Delta, come to rescue this ENFp sister going astray!