Model Φ and Phitypes - machintruc's research

[machintruc]

Model Φ is a model which measures the physiology of the brain (serotonin, norepinephrin, and dopamine levels).

http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...del_%CE%A6

I didn't invent that typology. Psychologists call this "the Big Three". It's just a very simple manner to represent them. There are 27 variants, that each socionic type may or may not have.

It's pretty hard to know if it's actually socionics or not, because I think physiology has some role in IM, even if it's not IM itself.

I think it's more aesthetic and meaningful to think of "-+0" or "+0+" instead of "subtypes or crosstypes", because subtypes actually come from physiology.

For example, according to such theories, I'd be an LII, - subtype. Or call it initial subtype, D subtype, black logic subtype or ENTJ subtype. Whatever.

ENTj subtype is relevant to 0+-, but it's also relevant to -+0 or -++. That's why subtypes may be confusing. For example, think of what dual-type-compliant theorists may call ESTj-ENTj.

I won't add official descriptions for Model Φ yet. I think it'd be more meaningful if descriptions emerge.

[machintruc]

Model Φ Thread : http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=16360 (if you want to convert your Etype to a Phitype, go here)
Dichotomies WS page : http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...pe_dichotomies


This law asserts that, for each group of S-, S0, S+, N-, N0, N+, D-, D0, and D+ :

- There is golden ratio distribution with some Jungian or Reinin dichotomies (approximately 61.8% versus 38.2%)
- There is even distribution with other Jungian of Reinin dichotomies (50% versus 50%)

Jungian foundation (or first-tier dichotomies)



Correlations found so far : (may be updated)

S- group :
62% of Introtims

S0 group :
62% of Logic

S+ group :
62% of Extrotims
62% of Ethics

N- group :
62% of Introtims

N0 group :
62% of Process

N+ group :
62% of Extrotims
62% of Result

D- group :
62% of Introtims
62% of Intuition

D0 group :
62% of Rationals

D+ group :
62% of Extrotims
62% of Irrationals
62% of Sensing

This is hypothesis. Maybe one day we'll find some symmetrical table of Phitype/Sociotype correlations. i.e., what variants are plausible for each TIM or not.

No misinformed retards here please. Thank you.

[machintruc]

RECENT RESEARCH: E-Score

Pick a Phitype, add 1 for each PLUS, and subtract 1 for each MINUS. You obtain the E-Score.

The E-Score is an integer between -3 and +3.

For example, as a 0+-, my E-Score is 0.

I recently found that :

IP types range between -3 and 0.
IJ types range between -2 and +1.
EJ types range between -1 and +2.
EP types range between 0 and +3.

All other types should be considered very rare or impossible.

[Ezra]

No. Just... no.

[machintruc]

Psyche has three levels. They differ from classical levels. I'll call them :

1. Immediate Psyche : the immediate or "live" experience - i.e. now
2. Soft Psyche : short-term memory - contains "working" data ; easy to forget
3. Hard Psyche : long-term memory - contains permanent or semi-permanent data and algorithms ; hard to forget

I suggest the psyche has four Information Processing Components :

Input : the process of information movement from Immediate Psyche to Soft Psyche.
Output : the process of information movement from Soft Psyche to Immediate Psyche.
Storage : the process of information movement from Soft Psyche to Hard Psyche.
Processing : the process of information movement from Hard Psyche to Soft Psyche.

We're calling them I, O, P and S. They relate to the W, X, Y, and Z processes of Model C.

An approximate example to illustrate them :

Inputting : "2 + 3 = _" is on your immediate psyche, and you're transfering it on your soft psyche.

Storage : "2 + 3 = _" is now on your soft psyche. Communication with hard psyche is established and the "2 + 3 = _" string is processed by hard psyche in a semi-deterministic manner.

Processing : "2 + 3 = _" is transformed into "2 + 3 = 5" or simply "5" and the information goes to the soft psyche. There's a risk of forgetting at this moment.

Output : "5" is definitely accepted as output, and the human being usually responds by the physical process of writing "5".


Each component is caracterised by two parameters :

- Strength : quantitative aspect of doing it, i.e. doing it with large amounts of information
- Flexibility : qualitative aspect of doing it, i.e. doing it in an appropriate or compliant manner

Each component may be :

1. Strong and Rigid
2. Strong and Flexible
3. Weak and Flexible
4. Weak and Rigid

For example, I have this information processing component pattern :

Input : Weak and Rigid
Output : Strong and Rigid
Storage : Weak and Flexible
Processing : Strong and Flexible

Rules for such patterns :

1. Each component has a different property pair. One process is Strong-Rigid, one is Strong-Flexible, one is Weak-Flexible, and the last is Weak-Rigid. Components are ordered like that. For example, my component 1 is Output, my component 2 is Processing, and so on. (This rule would reduce possible patterns from 256 to 24)

2. Socionic types may have different information processing component patterns. For example :

- SEI -0+ tends to have S1 I2 O3 P4, and SEI --- tends to have I1 S2 P3 O4.
- LSI --+ tends to have O1 S2 P3 I4, and LSI 0-0 tends to have S1 O2 I3 P4.


I don't know how much the viable patterns are (are they 24 ? 16 ? less ?). Besides, I don't know how they are correlated to Sociotypes or Phitypes.

This is not a model yet. It will emerge soon with your help.

[Ezra]

This will not take off. It's more complex than socionics. It requires extreme simplification and an ESE to bring it into concrete, user-friendly terms.

[machintruc]

This is quite an unresolved issue, due to its complexity. I still think it's useful to understand variants, because it's a way to avoid mistyping and misdescribing. For example : would you describe EIE's as social and bubbly, or as hostile and dramatic ?

Besides, what TIM-Phitype combinations are bound to what TIM-Phitype combinations ? For example, as a LII 0+-, I think I'm bound to ESE S+D0, rather than ESE S0D+, because S0D+ phitypes are like they're not really interested by you, and are obsessed by success and self-image. They're quite smart, friendly, but they're BORING, and lack the bubbliness of S+ types.

S+D0 types are friendly, bubbly, and docile. You know, I'm interested in leading others, and I think such docility that S0D+ types lack is "complementary" or "dual". ESE's aren't blindly docile, though, unlike EIE's.



I think, there are somehow 9-10 phitypes for each sociotype, because then, we would have 144-160 combinations. This somehow coincides with the Dunbar's Number, which is 150. But this "150" is only a prediction. Maybe the real Dunbar's Number is more like 144 or 160. Maybe it means that human beings aren't seeking only duals, but one dude/chick of each combination.

A Phitype is equivalent to an Enneatype with its Variant. There are 27 Phitypes.


I'm good to any clues for such pairing system : tables, correlations, opinions, or such.

For those who ask documentation for Model Phi : http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...del_%CE%A6

For those who ask documentation for Duncan's Number : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar's_number

[machintruc]

Social Orientation (from most assertive to least) :

S- : autocratic, pushy, confronting, brutally honest, devil's advocates, expect submission, bound to difficult milieux such as prisons or schools, take unpopular decisions easily, very light or absent rewarding, mistrusting, expect adaptation from others, very demanding, treat human beings as material resources, break laws, good buyers but bad sellers.

S0 : authoritarian, firm, bossy, straightforward, serious, expect docility, bound to regular milieux such as corporate organisations, light rewarding, shape others, demanding, semi-adaptive, win-win oriented, treat human beings as service providers, obey laws and norms, bureaucratic, average competence to sell and buy.

S+ : democratic, friendly, conformist, country club leaders, socialite, accomodating, expect active participation, don't take their pushy behaviours seriously, unable to take unpopular decisions, heavy rewarding, adapt themselves to others, not very demanding, laxist, treat human beings as human capital, prefer to respond human interests rather than laws, good sellers but bad buyers.


Physical Orientation (from most assertive to least) :

D+ : overdoing, go-getting, driving, achieving, competing, wanty, workaholic, ambitious, gross motor, faster, quantity-based production, able to do very complex tasks in an unknown environment, more a controller than a driver if Introtim, physically restless.

D0 : doing as adequate, compliant (or just superficially compliant if S-), follow bureaucratic procedures, balanced fine motor and gross motor, do things with little ambition, avoids complex tasks, may like routine.

D- : underdoing, simplify tasks, fine motor, lazy, slower, quality-based production, lack ambition, do things only if strong interest, see bureaucracy and competing as redundant, avoids overwhelming (except if S-), more a starter than a doer if Extrotim, easily tired.


S+ to S- : low to high motivation to confront others
D- to D+ : low to high motivation to do tasks

Being S+D- doesn't mean you're unable to lead. It just means that you're a Gandhi-like leader. I don't like Gandhi's doctrine, but as a leader, he wasn't bad...

Besides, sorry for not having found the role of norepinephrin levels.

For more information on phitypes, click on my phitype in my sig.

[machintruc]

Besides the fact that S- phitypes are by their nature confrontational, sad, harsh, repulsive, asocial, and the fact that I don't like them, S- phitypes have a gift.

This gift is their ease to handle the morbid. They deal with everything that is bad per se. Their life philosophy is built on conflict.

S- phitypes think that the world is acting bad, because it's full of superficial liars, ass-lickers, weak-minded conformists, left-winger retards, sex perverts, or such. The world is BAD. But the worst thing of the world is : death.

S- phitypes are fascinated by death, even if they don't like it. They're just fascinated by it. They feel that if they are able to understand death, they can really feel alive.

S- phitypes are very passionate about life. They think that nobody's actually more alive than them. On the inside, they like to feel bad, tormented or such. They are emotionally very sensitive, and somewhat abuse their emotional system by deliberate emotional overwhelm. They seek sadness, fear, or anger. On the outside, they are conflict-seeking. They conflict even with their friends, because they subconsciously think that nothing's more friendly to them than confronting them (but I personnally think it's stupid). Because of this, they are usually accused of being unfriendly or hateful.

Everyone likes S- phitypes, because nobody like them. They are truthful creatures that don't seek popularity, unlike S+ phitypes. They think that exact data and superficially good conduct isn't enough to make the world truthful. They think that despite Evil is bad per se, Evil shouldn't be ignored by having a blindly optimistic (S+) or neutral (N0) attitude, because otherwise, Evil would win.

All this to mean that : low serotonin level isn't an illness. Being S- doesn't mean you're Evil. It just means that you're Evil's advocate.

(For those who don't know what S- means : it corresponds to the Reactive Triad of Enneagram, i.e. types 4, 6, and 8)

[machintruc]

WARNING: semi-scientific reasoning - interpret with caution

characterized by difficulties in social interaction and by restricted, stereotyped interests and activities.

This means, respectively S- and Introtimness.

Remember the E-score of phitypes. Each Minus scores -1 and each Plus scores +1. For example, a 0+- scores 0, and a ++0 scores +2. The lowest the score is, the most the phitype is Introtim-like.

But here, as S- renders AS easier, we'll add an extra -1 for S-, and an extra +1 for S+, because -+- and --+ look more AS-like than +--. This is logical because S+ introverts look less autistic than S- introverts, and S- extroverts look more autistic than S+ extroverts.

Then, we have an autistic score for each phitype :

Sorted by phitype :

--- : -4
--0 : -3
--+ : -2
-0- : -3
-00 : -2
-0+ : -1
-+- : -2
-+0 : -1
-++ : 0
0-- : -2
0-0 : -1
0-+ : 0
00- : -1
000 : 0
00+ : +1
0+- : 0
0+0 : +1
0++ : +2
+-- : 0
+-0 : +1
+-+ : +2
+0- : +1
+00 : +2
+0+ : +3
++- : +2
++0 : +3
+++ : +4

Sorted by autistic score :

--- : -4

--0 : -3
-0- : -3

--+ : -2
-00 : -2
-+- : -2
0-- : -2

-0+ : -1
-+0 : -1
0-0 : -1
00- : -1

-++ : 0
0-+ : 0
000 : 0
0+- : 0
+-- : 0

00+ : +1
0+0 : +1
+-0 : +1
+0- : +1

0++ : +2
+-+ : +2
+00 : +2
++- : +2

+0+ : +3
++0 : +3

+++ : +4

If your score is negative, you're likely autistic, and if not, you're likely to be subject to false positive diagnosis. (diagnosed autistic by being actually non-autistic)

If your score is null, you may or may look superficially autistic, and be subject to false positive or false negative diagnosis.

If your score is positive, you're not likely autistic. If you actually are, you're likely to be subject of false negative diagnosis. (diagnosed non-autistic by being actually autistic)

For example, it's quite hard to say if a 0+- or a +-- is autistic or not.

[machintruc]

For example :

0+- : "zero plus minus" (could be pronounced "o plus minus")

--+ : "minus minus plus"

+++ : "plus plus plus"

Do you have your own way of pronouncing them ?

[Ezra]

It's funny actually. I just see them. I don't even read the symbols; I just take the information in.

[machintruc]

S- (E468) : feeling of being disadvantaged in comparison with others
=> I am sadder than others, so others should contribute to my well-being.

S+ (E279) : feeling of being advantaged in comparison with others
=> I am happier than others, so I should contribute to others' well-being.

D- (E459) : feeling of weakness in comparison with others
=> I am weaker than others, so I should avoid them. (that makes E4 ambiguous though)

D+ (E378) : feeling of strength in comparison with others
=> I am stronger than others, so I should challenge them. (that makes E7 ambiguous though)


I don't really know for N-/N+

[1981slater]

What is a phi type? Where can I find information about it?

[Creepy-male]

As a Seven, maybe I can clear up the conflict your theory raises...

I have a personal sense that, compared to others, there's a measure of extremes: some factors are vastly superior to others; other factors are vastly inferior. Which factors fall in which category can change on a moment's notice, since I usually weigh them against a single person at a time.

This causes four recurring personality patterns:

1) I wind up cheerleading for people who I see as being worse off than me. (Interesting note: I don't see others as being inferior, ever, only as superior or in need of my help. (Though, not quite... I do have the inferior category specially reserved, but I don't put those I'm cheering on in there. Can't quite recall what it's for, I think if I need security when I'm trying to cling to the winning side in a fight? But that's not quite right either))
2) I have trouble asking for help with things, because this puts the thing that needs helping in the "vastly inferior" category.
3) I can be quite confrontational when I feel confident, but instantly become submissive if I see that I'm starting to "lose" (I actually forgot what I was going to put here, so this is only a minor point)
4) I try to improve myself to move "vastly inferior" to "vastly superior".
-> w6's weak will means I seldom make good of this, however... and usually wind up forgetting anyway!

[FDG]

S- (E468) : feeling of being disadvantaged in comparison with others
=> I am sadder than others, so others should contribute to my well-being.

S+ (E279) : feeling of being advantaged in comparison with others
=> I am happier than others, so I should contribute to others' well-being.

D- (E459) : feeling of weakness in comparison with others
=> I am weaker than others, so I should avoid them. (that makes E4 ambiguous though)

D+ (E378) : feeling of strength in comparison with others
=> I am stronger than others, so I should challenge them. (that makes E7 ambiguous though)


I don't really know for N-/N+

I like it. As a 7, I can tell you that it works this way: if somebody challenges me, then I will always try to prove that I am superior; however, I will never start the challenging. If somebody is friendly and non-challenging, I rever to S+ behavior.

[machintruc]

http://www.discusonline.com/UDISC/default.htm

(these correlations are approximate)

--- S/D
-0- S/C
-+- S/I
--0 D/C
-00 D/S
-+0 D/I
--+ D/C
-0+ D/C
-++ D/I
0-- C/D
00- C/S
0+- C/I
0-0 C/D
000 C/D
0+0 C/I
0-+ D/C
00+ D/C
0++ D/I
+-- S/C
+0- S/I
++- S/I
+-0 I/C
+00 I/S
++0 I/D
+-+ I/C
+0+ I/D
+++ I/D

[Ezra]

What is the point of DISC again?

[Joy]

D: EJ (or maybe ExTx)
I: EP (or maybe ExFx)
S: IP (or maybe IxFx)
C: IJ (or maybe IxTx)

[Joy]

-++ D/I

Anyways, it appears to be accurate for me.

[FDG]

I/D is accurate for me I think

[Joy]

Basic Motivation:

D: challenge, choices, control
I: recognition, approval, popularity
S: security, appreciation, assurance
C: quality answers, excellence, value


Environment Needs:

D: freedom, authority, varied activities, difficult assignments, opportunity for advancement
I: prestige, friendly relationships, opportunities to influence others, opportunities to inspire others, chance to verbalize ideas
S: an area of specialization, identification with a group, established work pattern, stability of situation, consistent, familiar environment
C: clearly-defined tasks and explanations, sufficient time and resources to accomplish tasks, team participation, limited risks, assignments that require planning and precision


Needs to learn that:

D: people are important, relaxation is not a crime, some controls are necessary, everyone has a boss, verbalizing conclusions helps others understand them better
I: time must be managed, too much optimism can be harmful, listening is important, tasks must be completed, accountability is imperative
S: change provides opportunity, friendship isn't everything, discipline is good, it is alright to say no, being a "servant" does not mean being a "sucker"
C: total support is not always necessary, thorough explanation is not always possible, deadlines must be met, taking calculated risk can be profitable, there are varying degrees of excellence

Corresponds (imo) to:

D: enneagram 8, EJ, ExTx, Se valuing (most like LIE)
I: enneagram 3 and 7, EP, ExFx (most like SEE)
S: enneagram 2 and 6, IP, IxFx, weak Se (most like EII)
C: enneagram 1 and 5, IJ, IxTx, weak Ne (most like LSI or possibly ESI, because C's are negativists)

from the other recent DISC thread

[Joy]

I should add that ILE could be another "most like" type for I. Basically it's an EP positivist.

[machintruc]

I should add that ILE could be another "most like" type for I. Basically it's an EP positivist.

No. A stereotype for Influence would be an ESE or an EIE. They're able to manipulate everyone, even the most tough-minded people such as LII's or LSI's.

[machintruc]

I've done more resarch and for now, correlations are like :

S-

62% of Introtims

S0

62% of Logic
62% of Rationals

S+

62% of Extrotims
62% of Ethics
62% of Irrationals

N-

62% of Introtims
62% of Sensing

N0

(no known correlations)

N+

62% of Extrotims
62% of Intuition

D-

62% of Introtims
62% of Intuition
62% of Irrationals

D0

62% of Ethics
62% of Rationals

D+

62% of Extrotims
62% of Sensing
62% of Logic

With Reinin codes :

S- I
S0 TJ
S+ EFP
N- IS
N0
N+ EN
D- INP
D0 FJ
D+ EST



These correlations I'm pretty sure they exist. Still, I have to figure out how non-jungian Reinin traits correlate to Phigroups.

If you know any correlations like these, tell me. (If you seriously know them)

[machintruc]

Recent research :

I found some hidden hypothetic laws :

Law #1 : Number of phitypes for an IM type.

Each IM type is compatible with exactly 9 phitypes.


Law #2 : Law of Static IM types, N phigroups, and D phigroups.

Irrational Static Sensing types are forced to be D+
Rational Static Sensing types are forced to be D+ or D0
Irrational Static Intuitive types are forced to be N+
Rational Static Intuitive types are forced to be N+ or N0


Law #3a : Law of global phiclass of types.

Phiclasses of all phitypes compatible with a given IM type average to :

+1 for Extrotims (example : SLE's can be all D+ phitypes, then they average to +1)
-1 for Introtims (example : IEI's can be all D- phitypes, then they average to -1)

Law #3b : Law of phiclass distribution. (ROT13-ed because it's wrong)

Cuvpynffrf bs nyy cuvglcrf pbzcngvoyr jvgu n tvira VZ glcr ner qvfgevohgrq yvxr gung :

Sbe Rkgebgvzf :

1 cuvglcr va cuvpynff +3
2 cuvglcrf va cuvpynff +2
3 cuvglcrf va cuvpynff +1
2 cuvglcrf va cuvpynff 0
1 cuvglcr va cuvpynff -1

Sbe Vagebgvzf :

1 cuvglcr va cuvpynff +1
2 cuvglcrf va cuvpynff 0
3 cuvglcrf va cuvpynff -1
2 cuvglcrf va cuvpynff -2
1 cuvglcr va cuvpynff -3

[machintruc]

Latest research :

This is pure unproven hypothesis. I speculate that there are 144 combinations, and that the number of possible IM types for each phitype is, for each phisum :

-3 : 2 IM types
-2 : 4 IM types
-1 : 5 IM types
0 : 8 IM types
+1 : 5 IM types
+2 : 4 IM types
+3 : 2 IM types

The number of phitypes for each phisum is :

-3 : 1 phitype
-2 : 3 phitypes
-1 : 6 phitypes
0 : 7 phitypes
+1 : 6 phitypes
+2 : 3 phitypes
+3 : 1 phitype

1*2 + 3*4 + 6*5 + 7*8 + 6*5 + 3*4 + 1*2
= 2 + 12 + 30 + 56 + 30 + 12 + 2
= 144

[machintruc]

Correlations between phigroups and sociotypes are :

S- : 62% of Introtims
S0 : 62% of Logic, 62% of Rationals
S+ : 62% of Extrotims, 62% of Ethics, 62% of Irrationals
N- : 62% of Introtims, 62% of Sensing
N0 : (no known correlations)
N+ : 62% of Extrotims, 62% of Intuition
D- : 62% of Introtims, 62% of Intuition, 62% of Irrationals
D0 : 62% of Ethics, 62% of Rationals
D+ : 62% of Extrotims, 62% of Sensing, 62% of Logic


1. Extrotimness/Introtimness and Extroversion/Introversion

Introtimness is correlated to S-, N-, and D-.
Extrotimness is correlated to S+, N+, and D+.

The sum of components is equal to a number between -3 and +3.

Introtims are Introverts when they range from -3 to -1, otherwise they're Extroverts
Extrotims are Extroverts range from +1 to +3, otherwise they're Introverts

i.e. phitypes 000, -0+, -+0, 0-+, 0+-, +0-, and +-0.


2. Socionic S/N and Myersian S/N

Socionic Sensing is correlated to N- and D+
Socionic Intuition is correlated to N+ and D-

Then :

most phi-sensing
N-D+
N0D+ N-D0
N0D0 N-D- N+D+
N+D0 N0D-
N+D-
most phi-intuitive

Then, you confront the N and D phicomponents of the phitype with the S/N component of the IM Type same way.

For example :

0-+ IM Sensing = Myersian Sensing
0+- IM Intuitive = Myersian Intutive
0++ IM Sensing = Myersian Intutive
0-- IM Intuitive = Myersian Sensing


3. Socionic T/F and Myersian T/F

Socionic Logic is correlated to S0 and D+
Socionic Ethics is correlated to S+ and D0

Then :

most phi-logical
S0D+
S0D- S-D+
S0D0 S-D- S+D+
S-D0 S+D-
S+D0
most phi-ethical

(with ETypes)
3
5 8
1 4 7
6 9
2

Then, you confront the S and D phicomponents of the phitype with the T/F component of the IM Type same way.


4. Socionic J/P and Myersian J/P

Socionic Rationality is correlated to S0 and D0
Socionic Irrationality is correlated to S+ and D-

Then :

most phi-rational
S0D0
S0D+ S-D0
S0D- S+D0 S-D+
S-D- S+D+
S+D-
most phi-irrational

(with ETypes)
1
3 6
5 2 8
4 7
9

Then, you confront the S and D phicomponents of the phitype with the J/P component of the IM Type same way.


Examples

++0 EIE : phitype indicates a positive score for Extrotimness, Intuition, Ethics, and Rationality. Then, ENFJ.

-+0 EIE : phitype indicates a positive score for Intuition, Ethics, and Rationality ; a contradictory score for E/I. As IM Extrotim, -+0 EIE is Myersian Introvert. NFJ + I = INFJ. (Then, ****** and Zhirinovsky are INFJ)

-+0 LIE : phitype indicates a positive score for Intuition, Ethics, and Rationality ; a contradictory score for E/I. As IM Extrotim, -+0 LIE is Myersian Sensing ; and as IM Logic, Myersian Feeling. NFJ + I = INFJ. (Then, Chuck Norris and Expat are INFJ)

+-0 LSI : phitype indicates a positive score for Sensing, Logic, and Rationality ; a contradictory score for E/I. As IM Introtim, +-0 LSI is Myersian Extrovert. STJ + E = ESTJ.

+++ SEE : phitype indicates a positive score for Extrotimness and Irrationality ; a contradictory score for S/N and T/F. As IM Sensing, +++ SEE is Myersian Intuitive ; and as IM Ethics, Myersian Thinking. EP + NT = ENTP.

--- SEI : phitype indicates a positive score for Introtimness and Irrationality ; a contradictory score for S/N and T/F. As IM Sensing, --- SEI is Myersian Intuitive ; and as IM Ethics, Myersian Thinking. IP + NT = INTP. (Then, Kate Moss and Kelly Osbourne are INTP)

[Rubicon]

--- SEI : phitype indicates a positive score for Introtimness and Irrationality ; a contradictory score for S/N and T/F. As IM Sensing, --- SEI is Myersian Intuitive ; and as IM Ethics, Myersian Thinking. IP + NT = INTP. (Then, Kate Moss and Kelly Osbourne are INTP)

ISFp is equivalent to INTP? I typed as ISFP. I thought the two systems were essentially based on the same concepts of T/F etc.

[machintruc]

ISFp is equivalent to INTP? I typed as ISFP. I thought the two systems were essentially based on the same concepts of T/F etc.

That's quite unaccurate, indeed. Maybe here T/F isn't really Myersian, but Classical. i.e. Task-oriented vs. People-oriented.

358 : task-oriented
147 : task-oriented Ethical or people-oriented Logical
269 : people-oriented

This translation system doesn't work well, because I'd be ENTP. I'm not ENTP, but ENTJ.

[crazedrat]

Did you make those statistics up?

[machintruc]

the vicious circle of D- :

low dopamin level
=> not feeling like doing things
=> not doing things
=> unsatisfactory results
=> feeling disappointed by self
=> temporary decrease of dopamin level
=> not feeling like doing things
=> etc.



the vicious circle of S- :

low serotonin level
=> not feeling like accomodating
=> pushy behaviours
=> unsatisfactory feedback from the external world, socially rejected by people
=> feeling disappointed by external world, disagreeing with it, rejecting people back
=> temporary decrease of serotonin level
=> not feeling like accomodating
=> etc.


7 phigroups to go...

what do you think ?

[machintruc]

how can N0, S0, or D0 get into a vicious circle? (I know I'm still operating under the (mis)conception that 0 is balanced, as I haven't completely abandoned it yet.)

zero is not "balanced", because for example, some S0 phitypes may feel unable to act S- or S+, and act like formalistic retards or such.

[Gilly]

What's my phi type? S+N+D-? Something like that?

[machintruc]

hey machintruc, what do you think of this?

http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/articles/NArtTina.asp

specifically... norepenephrin isn't correlated with instinctual varients but with the enneagram number itself.

Right. I disagree with it. I think norepinephrin is related to instinctual variants.

[machintruc]

FFM

O : correlation with S+, N+ and D- ; anti-correlation with S-, N-, and D+
C : correlation with S0, N0 and D0 ; anti-correlation with S+, N-, and D-
E : correlation with S+, N+ and D+ ; anti-correlation with S-, N-, and D-
A : correlation with S+, N0 and D0 ; anti-correlation with S-, N-, and D+.
N : correlation with S-, N+ and D0 ; anti-correlation with S+, N-, and D-.

Openness is max for Intimate Nines, and min for SP Eights
Conscientiousness is max for Social Ones, and min for SP Nines
Extroversion is max for Intimate Sevens, and min for SP Fours
Agreeableness is max for Social Twos, and min for SP Eights
Neuroticism is max for Intimate Sixes, and min for SP Nines

16PF Factors (approximately)

http://www.chimaeraconsulting.com/16pf.htm

A max ++0 ; min ---
B max -+- ; min +00
C max +-- ; min -+0
E max --+ ; min +--
F max +++ ; min ---
G max 000 ; min +--
H max -++ ; min +--
I max +00 ; min 0-0
L max +00 ; min -+-
M max ++- ; min 0-+
N max 00- ; min -++
O max -+- ; min 0-+
Q1 max 0+- ; min --0
Q2 max --- ; min +00
Q3 max 0-0 ; min ++-
Q4 max -+0 ; min +--

[machintruc]

Correlations between Phitraits and IM traits :

S- : I
S0 : TJ
S+ : EFP
N- : IS
N0 :
N+ : EN
D- : INP
D0 : FJ
D+ : EST

Let's calculate the score for each 0+- combination. The higher the score, the most viable the combination is.

S0 : TJ
N+ : EN
D- : INP

Points to add for each IM type

E = 1
I = 1
S = 0
N = 2
T = 1
F = 0
J = 1
P = 1

Score for each IM type :

ENTP : 1+2+1+1 = 5
ENTJ : 1+2+1+1 = 5
ENFP : 1+2+0+1 = 4
ENFJ : 1+2+0+1 = 4
ESTP : 1+0+1+1 = 3
ESTJ : 1+0+1+1 = 3
ESFP : 1+0+0+1 = 2
ESFJ : 1+0+0+1 = 2
INTP : 1+2+1+1 = 5
INTJ : 1+2+1+1 = 5
INFP : 1+2+0+1 = 4
INFJ : 1+2+0+1 = 4
ISTP : 1+0+1+1 = 3
ISTJ : 1+0+1+1 = 3
ISFP : 1+0+0+1 = 2
ISFJ : 1+0+0+1 = 2

All NT types scored 5, and all NF types scored 4. That means, 0+- theoretically includes all Intuitive types, and excludes all Sensing types.




Let's do it for -+-

S- : I
N+ : EN
D- : INP

Points to add for each IM type

E = 1
I = 2
S = 0
N = 2
T = 0
F = 0
J = 0
P = 1

Score for each IM type :

ENTP : 1+2+1=4
ENTJ : 1+2+0=3
ENFP : 1+2+1=4
ENFJ : 1+2+0=3
ESTP : 1+0+1=2
ESTJ : 1+0+0=1
ESFP : 1+0+1=2
ESFJ : 1+0+0=1
INTP : 2+2+1=5
INTJ : 2+2+0=4
INFP : 2+2+1=5
INFJ : 2+2+0=4
ISTP : 2+0+1=3
ISTJ : 2+0+0=2
ISFP : 2+0+1=3
ISFJ : 2+0+0=2

I can guess that all Intuitive Introtims can be -+-. But, the fact that negative phisum phitypes can be Extrotims has yet to be proved. If it's actually the case, ILE's and IEE's can be -+-.


This can be done with all phitypes.

[machintruc]

(censored)

[Creepy-male]

I do not understand these graphs.

[machintruc]

I do not understand these graphs.

If the correlation index is greater or equal than 2, then the combination exists.