Model Φ and Phitypes - machintruc's research

[machintruc]

hey machintruc, what do you think of this?

http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/articles/NArtTina.asp

specifically... norepenephrin isn't correlated with instinctual varients but with the enneagram number itself.

Right. I disagree with it. I think norepinephrin is related to instinctual variants.

[FDG]

This topic implies that S+N+D+ are indeed the next step in human evolution, as I said multiple times, and as implied testifies in her signature.

[machintruc]

This topic implies that S+N+D+ are indeed the next step in human evolution, as I said multiple times, and as implied testifies in her signature.

Yeah, because human beings are just retarded monkeys. +++ people are retarded human beings, so they're logically the next step in human evolution

[FDG]

Yeah, because human beings are just retarded monkeys. +++ people are retarded human beings, so they're logically the next step in human evolution

You and me baby ain't nothing but mammals so let's do it like they do it on discovery channel

[marooned]

This topic implies that S+N+D+ are indeed the next step in human evolution, as I said multiple times, and as implied testifies in her signature.

Hrmmmm... I've been thinking more about this...

I wouldn't want to be D+... I would be too active then I think (for me).

I was thinking +++ might make me feel too hyperactive in general. If all humans were +++, we'd all be speeders! I think this would impact the human race negatively.

[FDG]

Hrmmmm... I've been thinking more about this...

I wouldn't want to be D+... I would be too active then I think (for me).

I was thinking +++ might make me feel too hyperactive in general. If all humans were +++, we'd all be speeders! I think this would impact the human race negatively.

Yeah, I'm just joking when I say that

[machintruc]

Latest research :

This is pure unproven hypothesis. I speculate that there are 144 combinations, and that the number of possible IM types for each phitype is, for each phisum :

-3 : 2 IM types
-2 : 4 IM types
-1 : 5 IM types
0 : 8 IM types
+1 : 5 IM types
+2 : 4 IM types
+3 : 2 IM types

The number of phitypes for each phisum is :

-3 : 1 phitype
-2 : 3 phitypes
-1 : 6 phitypes
0 : 7 phitypes
+1 : 6 phitypes
+2 : 3 phitypes
+3 : 1 phitype

1*2 + 3*4 + 6*5 + 7*8 + 6*5 + 3*4 + 1*2
= 2 + 12 + 30 + 56 + 30 + 12 + 2
= 144

[machintruc]

I'd like to make a video game which is based on Model Φ and/or Socionics but don't have time to make it.

Here are my ideas (public domain) :

You can use Model Φ that way (usable for shmups, RPG's, FPS's, racing games, fighting games or such) :

Defence : inverse correlation with S level
Attack : correlated to D level
Magic : correlated to N level
Max Hit Points : inverse correlation with N level
Thinking complexity : max at S-N+D-, min at S+N0D0
Speed : max at S+N+D+, min at S-N-D-
Accuracy : max at S0N-D0, min at S+N+D+

and so on.

You can use such typology for characters (player[s], allies, or enemies), maps, weapons, vehicles or such. I'm sure if you want to create a non-RPG, you'd be smart enough to adapt that typology.

[crazedrat]

hah.. man, i'm planning on designing an sc2 map that will utilize the functions to determine unit abilities and unit mixes, and so fourth. waiting for them to release the game first though..
it's nerdy yeah, but i think its pretty valid. not so different than music really

[FDG]

Ahaha, to be honest I agree with you, my playing style and my character development is a mix of the S+N+D+ characteristics you stated above.

[machintruc]

Just tell me.

[Search]

Explain first what you mean by intimate 5.........such as a 5w4? Or the sexual variant?

I am 5 involved with 5. Except his wing is 6.

[machintruc]

Explain first what you mean by intimate 5.........such as a 5w4? Or the sexual variant?

I am 5 involved with 5. Except his wing is 6.

It's what you call "Sexual Five", except that I don't use the term "Sexual".

[machintruc]

Now it's become quite easy to know what combinations are likely to be viable or not.

For example, for my own phitype, 0+- :

Supposing that it's an "intuitive" and "logic" phitype :

INTJ
INFP
INFJ
ISTP
ENTP
ENFP
ENTJ
ESTJ

4 Introtims, 4 Extrotims
6 Intuiters, 2 Sensors
5 Logicals, 3 Ethicals
4 Rationals, 4 Irrationals

NB: These are IM types in four-letter code, not myersian types. Four letter codes are more readable in these circumstances.

For -+0 :

ENFJ
ENTJ
ESTJ
ENFP
ISTP
ISFJ
INFJ
INTP

Ex4 Ix4
Nx5 Sx3
Fx4 Tx4
Jx5 Px3


For --+ :

ISTJ
ISTP
ISFJ
ESTJ
ESTP

EI : 23
SN : 50
TF : 41
JP : 32

For ++- :

ENFP
ENTP
ENFJ
INFP
INTP

EI : 32
SN : 05
TF : 23
JP : 41


OK, maybe -1/+1 phisum phitypes have only 3-4 phitypes each.

For 00-

INTJ
INFJ
ISTP
INTP
ENTP

really fucked on it, because there's only 1 Extrotim in a -1 phisum phitype.

For ++0 (my favourite) :

ESFJ
ENFJ
ENFP

Can SEE's be ++0 ? Don't know.

For +++ retards :

ESTP
ENFP

Both are result EP.

For --- retards :

ISFP
INFP

hmm... maybe all ---'s can be all IP types, and +++'s all EP types...

For --0 :

ISFJ
ISTP
INTJ

don't know, it's really a fuck.


HELP ME PLZ!!!

[machintruc]

For now, if I suppose that a set of IM types is composed of three Reinin traits, then :

For negative phisum (approximately - DO NOT take this for granted)

00- I N
0-0 I J
-00 I FJ/TP
--+ I S
-+- I N
+-- I F
--0 I FJ/TP
-0- I FP/TJ
0-- I Process
--- I P

[machintruc]

6 IM types for each null-phisum phitype.
3 IM types for each other phitype.

4-letter codes are used here in order to improve readability.

This is a temporary model. It's not very accurate for now.


Phisum -3

--- ISFP INTP INFP

Phisum -2

--0 ISFJ INFJ ISTP
-0- ISFP INFP INFJ
0-- INTP ISTP INFJ

Phisum -1

--+ ISTJ ISTP ISFJ
-+- INFP INTP INFJ
+-- ISFP INFP INTP
-00 ISFJ INFJ ISTP
0-0 ISTJ INFJ ISFJ
00- INTJ INTP INFJ

Phisum 0

-0+ ESTP ENTJ ESFP ISTJ ISTP ISFJ
-+0 ENFJ ENTJ ESTJ ISFJ INFJ ISTP
0-+ ESTP ESTJ ENTJ ISTJ ISFJ ISTP
000 ESTJ ENTJ ESFJ ISTJ INFJ INTJ
0+- ENTJ ENTP ENFP INTJ INFJ INFP
+-0 ESFJ ESFP ENFP ISFP ISFJ INFJ
+0- ENFP ESFP ENTP ISFP INFP INTP

Phisum +1

-++ ESTP ESFP ENTJ
+-+ ESTP ESFP ESFJ
++- ENFP ENTP ESFP
+00 ENFJ ESFJ ESFP
0+0 ESTJ ENTJ ENFJ
00+ ESTP ESFP ENTJ

Phisum +2

0++ ESTP ENTJ ESFJ
+0+ ESTP ESFJ ESFP
++0 ENFJ ESFJ ENFP

Phisum +3

+++ ESTP ENFP ESFP

[Gilly]

What do you think my phitype is?

My off-the-cuff guess is that I am probably S-, since I've needed antidepressants in the past. So definitely not S+ anyways. I am also definitely not D+; lacking motivation has always been one of my bigger problems. I think I am most likely N0 or N+.

[machintruc]

FFM

O : correlation with S+, N+ and D- ; anti-correlation with S-, N-, and D+
C : correlation with S0, N0 and D0 ; anti-correlation with S+, N-, and D-
E : correlation with S+, N+ and D+ ; anti-correlation with S-, N-, and D-
A : correlation with S+, N0 and D0 ; anti-correlation with S-, N-, and D+.
N : correlation with S-, N+ and D0 ; anti-correlation with S+, N-, and D-.

Openness is max for Intimate Nines, and min for SP Eights
Conscientiousness is max for Social Ones, and min for SP Nines
Extroversion is max for Intimate Sevens, and min for SP Fours
Agreeableness is max for Social Twos, and min for SP Eights
Neuroticism is max for Intimate Sixes, and min for SP Nines

16PF Factors (approximately)

http://www.chimaeraconsulting.com/16pf.htm

A max ++0 ; min ---
B max -+- ; min +00
C max +-- ; min -+0
E max --+ ; min +--
F max +++ ; min ---
G max 000 ; min +--
H max -++ ; min +--
I max +00 ; min 0-0
L max +00 ; min -+-
M max ++- ; min 0-+
N max 00- ; min -++
O max -+- ; min 0-+
Q1 max 0+- ; min --0
Q2 max --- ; min +00
Q3 max 0-0 ; min ++-
Q4 max -+0 ; min +--

[machintruc]

Correlations between Phitraits and IM traits :

S- : I
S0 : TJ
S+ : EFP
N- : IS
N0 :
N+ : EN
D- : INP
D0 : FJ
D+ : EST

Let's calculate the score for each 0+- combination. The higher the score, the most viable the combination is.

S0 : TJ
N+ : EN
D- : INP

Points to add for each IM type

E = 1
I = 1
S = 0
N = 2
T = 1
F = 0
J = 1
P = 1

Score for each IM type :

ENTP : 1+2+1+1 = 5
ENTJ : 1+2+1+1 = 5
ENFP : 1+2+0+1 = 4
ENFJ : 1+2+0+1 = 4
ESTP : 1+0+1+1 = 3
ESTJ : 1+0+1+1 = 3
ESFP : 1+0+0+1 = 2
ESFJ : 1+0+0+1 = 2
INTP : 1+2+1+1 = 5
INTJ : 1+2+1+1 = 5
INFP : 1+2+0+1 = 4
INFJ : 1+2+0+1 = 4
ISTP : 1+0+1+1 = 3
ISTJ : 1+0+1+1 = 3
ISFP : 1+0+0+1 = 2
ISFJ : 1+0+0+1 = 2

All NT types scored 5, and all NF types scored 4. That means, 0+- theoretically includes all Intuitive types, and excludes all Sensing types.




Let's do it for -+-

S- : I
N+ : EN
D- : INP

Points to add for each IM type

E = 1
I = 2
S = 0
N = 2
T = 0
F = 0
J = 0
P = 1

Score for each IM type :

ENTP : 1+2+1=4
ENTJ : 1+2+0=3
ENFP : 1+2+1=4
ENFJ : 1+2+0=3
ESTP : 1+0+1=2
ESTJ : 1+0+0=1
ESFP : 1+0+1=2
ESFJ : 1+0+0=1
INTP : 2+2+1=5
INTJ : 2+2+0=4
INFP : 2+2+1=5
INFJ : 2+2+0=4
ISTP : 2+0+1=3
ISTJ : 2+0+0=2
ISFP : 2+0+1=3
ISFJ : 2+0+0=2

I can guess that all Intuitive Introtims can be -+-. But, the fact that negative phisum phitypes can be Extrotims has yet to be proved. If it's actually the case, ILE's and IEE's can be -+-.


This can be done with all phitypes.

[machintruc]

At least, if you can't think something of them, describe them...

[redbaron]

I think, in general, enneagram types are kind of hard to figure out unless you know the person really really well. Especially variants! So I could know one without realizing. But as far as I know, I don't know any intimate 5s. one of my best friends is a social five.

[machintruc]

I think, in general, enneagram types are kind of hard to figure out unless you know the person really really well. Especially variants! So I could know one without realizing. But as far as I know, I don't know any intimate 5s. one of my best friends is a social five.

But with the Phitype thing, I get 90% accuracy. It's quite easy to distinguish S0 people from S- and S+ people, as well as N+ from N- and N0, as well as D- from D0 and D+.

Or, you may figure out 0+-'s by reminding yourself that 0+-'s look like 80's singers...

[Mariano Rajoy]

Just tell me.

On a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the highest: 7.37846.

[redbaron]

But with the Phitype thing, I get 90% accuracy. It's quite easy to distinguish S0 people from S- and S+ people, as well as N+ from N- and N0, as well as D- from D0 and D+.

Or, you may figure out 0+-'s by reminding yourself that 0+-'s look like 80's singers...

[machintruc]

S- (E468) : feeling of being disadvantaged in comparison with others
=> I am sadder than others, so others should contribute to my well-being.

S+ (E279) : feeling of being advantaged in comparison with others
=> I am happier than others, so I should contribute to others' well-being.

D- (E459) : feeling of weakness in comparison with others
=> I am weaker than others, so I should avoid them. (that makes E4 ambiguous though)

D+ (E378) : feeling of strength in comparison with others
=> I am stronger than others, so I should challenge them. (that makes E7 ambiguous though)


I don't really know for N-/N+

[1981slater]

What is a phi type? Where can I find information about it?

[Creepy-male]

As a Seven, maybe I can clear up the conflict your theory raises...

I have a personal sense that, compared to others, there's a measure of extremes: some factors are vastly superior to others; other factors are vastly inferior. Which factors fall in which category can change on a moment's notice, since I usually weigh them against a single person at a time.

This causes four recurring personality patterns:

1) I wind up cheerleading for people who I see as being worse off than me. (Interesting note: I don't see others as being inferior, ever, only as superior or in need of my help. (Though, not quite... I do have the inferior category specially reserved, but I don't put those I'm cheering on in there. Can't quite recall what it's for, I think if I need security when I'm trying to cling to the winning side in a fight? But that's not quite right either))
2) I have trouble asking for help with things, because this puts the thing that needs helping in the "vastly inferior" category.
3) I can be quite confrontational when I feel confident, but instantly become submissive if I see that I'm starting to "lose" (I actually forgot what I was going to put here, so this is only a minor point)
4) I try to improve myself to move "vastly inferior" to "vastly superior".
-> w6's weak will means I seldom make good of this, however... and usually wind up forgetting anyway!

[machintruc]

What is a phi type? Where can I find information about it?

User:Machintruc/Hypotheses/Model ? - Wikisocion

[FDG]

S- (E468) : feeling of being disadvantaged in comparison with others
=> I am sadder than others, so others should contribute to my well-being.

S+ (E279) : feeling of being advantaged in comparison with others
=> I am happier than others, so I should contribute to others' well-being.

D- (E459) : feeling of weakness in comparison with others
=> I am weaker than others, so I should avoid them. (that makes E4 ambiguous though)

D+ (E378) : feeling of strength in comparison with others
=> I am stronger than others, so I should challenge them. (that makes E7 ambiguous though)


I don't really know for N-/N+

I like it. As a 7, I can tell you that it works this way: if somebody challenges me, then I will always try to prove that I am superior; however, I will never start the challenging. If somebody is friendly and non-challenging, I rever to S+ behavior.

[DirectorAbbie]

machintruc, you said I was a 000. But accordind to the Enneagram conversion, I'd have to be either a 0-0 or a 0+0. And I won't know which until I know what N means.

[machintruc]

machintruc, you said I was a 000. But accordind to the Enneagram conversion, I'd have to be either a 0-0 or a 0+0. And I won't know which until I know what N means.

N means the relative quantity of norepinephrin contained in your brain at its neutral state.

It doesn't matter how many norepinephrin is actually present in your brain, i.e. 200 nanograms or such. It has to feel low, average, or high.

If it feels high (N+), you're a "tense" type.

If it feels average (N0), your anxiety is "average", but you're not gonna think the world is gonna explode all the time.

If it feels low (N-), you're not LSE.

[machintruc]

(censored)

[Creepy-male]

I do not understand these graphs.

[machintruc]

I do not understand these graphs.

If the correlation index is greater or equal than 2, then the combination exists.

[Creepy-male]

But I'm a ++- SEI.

[machintruc]

But I'm a ++- SEI.

++- SEI's don't exist.

Can you imagine a Sensing type with a restless mind and no energy ?

[Creepy-male]

I don't need to imagine one.

I am one.

EDIT

Your graph says that all SEIs are social or self-pres, never sexual. (Never N+.)

Somewhere in the Mysterious Chain of Logiks, there is a problem.

So, my first question is: in what way do you account for moodiness in IP temperament? Or in other words, when an IP is on a high, and thus more mentally active, is your system able to deal with that? Or do you relegate that to some other chemical outside your magic triad?

Likewise, when an IP is on a low, and thus less mentally active (and possibly even slightly depressed, in the colloquial sense).

FURTHER EDIT

Furthermore, there doesn't seem to be easy access to what you link in with different levels of serotonin, dopamine and noradrenaline. For the purposes of this discussion, would you care to explain?

[pluie]

YEAH!

[Mediator Kam]

Man I need help finding everything.

[Creepy-male]

Man I need help finding everything.

+0-

Congrats, you exist.