This topic implies that S+N+D+ are indeed the next step in human evolution, as I said multiple times, and as implied testifies in her signature.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Hrmmmm... I've been thinking more about this...
I wouldn't want to be D+... I would be too active then I think (for me).
I was thinking +++ might make me feel too hyperactive in general. If all humans were +++, we'd all be speeders! I think this would impact the human race negatively.
Latest research :
This is pure unproven hypothesis. I speculate that there are 144 combinations, and that the number of possible IM types for each phitype is, for each phisum :
-3 : 2 IM types
-2 : 4 IM types
-1 : 5 IM types
0 : 8 IM types
+1 : 5 IM types
+2 : 4 IM types
+3 : 2 IM types
The number of phitypes for each phisum is :
-3 : 1 phitype
-2 : 3 phitypes
-1 : 6 phitypes
0 : 7 phitypes
+1 : 6 phitypes
+2 : 3 phitypes
+3 : 1 phitype
1*2 + 3*4 + 6*5 + 7*8 + 6*5 + 3*4 + 1*2
= 2 + 12 + 30 + 56 + 30 + 12 + 2
= 144
I'd like to make a video game which is based on Model Φ and/or Socionics but don't have time to make it.
Here are my ideas (public domain) :
You can use Model Φ that way (usable for shmups, RPG's, FPS's, racing games, fighting games or such) :
Defence : inverse correlation with S level
Attack : correlated to D level
Magic : correlated to N level
Max Hit Points : inverse correlation with N level
Thinking complexity : max at S-N+D-, min at S+N0D0
Speed : max at S+N+D+, min at S-N-D-
Accuracy : max at S0N-D0, min at S+N+D+
and so on.
You can use such typology for characters (player[s], allies, or enemies), maps, weapons, vehicles or such. I'm sure if you want to create a non-RPG, you'd be smart enough to adapt that typology.
hah.. man, i'm planning on designing an sc2 map that will utilize the functions to determine unit abilities and unit mixes, and so fourth. waiting for them to release the game first though..
it's nerdy yeah, but i think its pretty valid. not so different than music really
Ahaha, to be honest I agree with you, my playing style and my character development is a mix of the S+N+D+ characteristics you stated above.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Just tell me.
Explain first what you mean by intimate 5.........such as a 5w4? Or the sexual variant?
I am 5 involved with 5. Except his wing is 6.
Now it's become quite easy to know what combinations are likely to be viable or not.
For example, for my own phitype, 0+- :
Supposing that it's an "intuitive" and "logic" phitype :
INTJ
INFP
INFJ
ISTP
ENTP
ENFP
ENTJ
ESTJ
4 Introtims, 4 Extrotims
6 Intuiters, 2 Sensors
5 Logicals, 3 Ethicals
4 Rationals, 4 Irrationals
NB: These are IM types in four-letter code, not myersian types. Four letter codes are more readable in these circumstances.
For -+0 :
ENFJ
ENTJ
ESTJ
ENFP
ISTP
ISFJ
INFJ
INTP
Ex4 Ix4
Nx5 Sx3
Fx4 Tx4
Jx5 Px3
For --+ :
ISTJ
ISTP
ISFJ
ESTJ
ESTP
EI : 23
SN : 50
TF : 41
JP : 32
For ++- :
ENFP
ENTP
ENFJ
INFP
INTP
EI : 32
SN : 05
TF : 23
JP : 41
OK, maybe -1/+1 phisum phitypes have only 3-4 phitypes each.
For 00-
INTJ
INFJ
ISTP
INTP
ENTP
really fucked on it, because there's only 1 Extrotim in a -1 phisum phitype.
For ++0 (my favourite) :
ESFJ
ENFJ
ENFP
Can SEE's be ++0 ? Don't know.
For +++ retards :
ESTP
ENFP
Both are result EP.
For --- retards :
ISFP
INFP
hmm... maybe all ---'s can be all IP types, and +++'s all EP types...
For --0 :
ISFJ
ISTP
INTJ
don't know, it's really a fuck.
HELP ME PLZ!!!
For now, if I suppose that a set of IM types is composed of three Reinin traits, then :
For negative phisum (approximately - DO NOT take this for granted)
00- I N
0-0 I J
-00 I FJ/TP
--+ I S
-+- I N
+-- I F
--0 I FJ/TP
-0- I FP/TJ
0-- I Process
--- I P
6 IM types for each null-phisum phitype.
3 IM types for each other phitype.
4-letter codes are used here in order to improve readability.
This is a temporary model. It's not very accurate for now.
Phisum -3
--- ISFP INTP INFP
Phisum -2
--0 ISFJ INFJ ISTP
-0- ISFP INFP INFJ
0-- INTP ISTP INFJ
Phisum -1
--+ ISTJ ISTP ISFJ
-+- INFP INTP INFJ
+-- ISFP INFP INTP
-00 ISFJ INFJ ISTP
0-0 ISTJ INFJ ISFJ
00- INTJ INTP INFJ
Phisum 0
-0+ ESTP ENTJ ESFP ISTJ ISTP ISFJ
-+0 ENFJ ENTJ ESTJ ISFJ INFJ ISTP
0-+ ESTP ESTJ ENTJ ISTJ ISFJ ISTP
000 ESTJ ENTJ ESFJ ISTJ INFJ INTJ
0+- ENTJ ENTP ENFP INTJ INFJ INFP
+-0 ESFJ ESFP ENFP ISFP ISFJ INFJ
+0- ENFP ESFP ENTP ISFP INFP INTP
Phisum +1
-++ ESTP ESFP ENTJ
+-+ ESTP ESFP ESFJ
++- ENFP ENTP ESFP
+00 ENFJ ESFJ ESFP
0+0 ESTJ ENTJ ENFJ
00+ ESTP ESFP ENTJ
Phisum +2
0++ ESTP ENTJ ESFJ
+0+ ESTP ESFJ ESFP
++0 ENFJ ESFJ ENFP
Phisum +3
+++ ESTP ENFP ESFP
What do you think my phitype is?
My off-the-cuff guess is that I am probably S-, since I've needed antidepressants in the past. So definitely not S+ anyways. I am also definitely not D+; lacking motivation has always been one of my bigger problems. I think I am most likely N0 or N+.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
FFM
O : correlation with S+, N+ and D- ; anti-correlation with S-, N-, and D+
C : correlation with S0, N0 and D0 ; anti-correlation with S+, N-, and D-
E : correlation with S+, N+ and D+ ; anti-correlation with S-, N-, and D-
A : correlation with S+, N0 and D0 ; anti-correlation with S-, N-, and D+.
N : correlation with S-, N+ and D0 ; anti-correlation with S+, N-, and D-.
Openness is max for Intimate Nines, and min for SP Eights
Conscientiousness is max for Social Ones, and min for SP Nines
Extroversion is max for Intimate Sevens, and min for SP Fours
Agreeableness is max for Social Twos, and min for SP Eights
Neuroticism is max for Intimate Sixes, and min for SP Nines
16PF Factors (approximately)
http://www.chimaeraconsulting.com/16pf.htm
A max ++0 ; min ---
B max -+- ; min +00
C max +-- ; min -+0
E max --+ ; min +--
F max +++ ; min ---
G max 000 ; min +--
H max -++ ; min +--
I max +00 ; min 0-0
L max +00 ; min -+-
M max ++- ; min 0-+
N max 00- ; min -++
O max -+- ; min 0-+
Q1 max 0+- ; min --0
Q2 max --- ; min +00
Q3 max 0-0 ; min ++-
Q4 max -+0 ; min +--
Correlations between Phitraits and IM traits :
S- : I
S0 : TJ
S+ : EFP
N- : IS
N0 :
N+ : EN
D- : INP
D0 : FJ
D+ : EST
Let's calculate the score for each 0+- combination. The higher the score, the most viable the combination is.
S0 : TJ
N+ : EN
D- : INP
Points to add for each IM type
E = 1
I = 1
S = 0
N = 2
T = 1
F = 0
J = 1
P = 1
Score for each IM type :
ENTP : 1+2+1+1 = 5
ENTJ : 1+2+1+1 = 5
ENFP : 1+2+0+1 = 4
ENFJ : 1+2+0+1 = 4
ESTP : 1+0+1+1 = 3
ESTJ : 1+0+1+1 = 3
ESFP : 1+0+0+1 = 2
ESFJ : 1+0+0+1 = 2
INTP : 1+2+1+1 = 5
INTJ : 1+2+1+1 = 5
INFP : 1+2+0+1 = 4
INFJ : 1+2+0+1 = 4
ISTP : 1+0+1+1 = 3
ISTJ : 1+0+1+1 = 3
ISFP : 1+0+0+1 = 2
ISFJ : 1+0+0+1 = 2
All NT types scored 5, and all NF types scored 4. That means, 0+- theoretically includes all Intuitive types, and excludes all Sensing types.
Let's do it for -+-
S- : I
N+ : EN
D- : INP
Points to add for each IM type
E = 1
I = 2
S = 0
N = 2
T = 0
F = 0
J = 0
P = 1
Score for each IM type :
ENTP : 1+2+1=4
ENTJ : 1+2+0=3
ENFP : 1+2+1=4
ENFJ : 1+2+0=3
ESTP : 1+0+1=2
ESTJ : 1+0+0=1
ESFP : 1+0+1=2
ESFJ : 1+0+0=1
INTP : 2+2+1=5
INTJ : 2+2+0=4
INFP : 2+2+1=5
INFJ : 2+2+0=4
ISTP : 2+0+1=3
ISTJ : 2+0+0=2
ISFP : 2+0+1=3
ISFJ : 2+0+0=2
I can guess that all Intuitive Introtims can be -+-. But, the fact that negative phisum phitypes can be Extrotims has yet to be proved. If it's actually the case, ILE's and IEE's can be -+-.
This can be done with all phitypes.
At least, if you can't think something of them, describe them...
I think, in general, enneagram types are kind of hard to figure out unless you know the person really really well. Especially variants! So I could know one without realizing. But as far as I know, I don't know any intimate 5s. one of my best friends is a social five.
IEI-Fe 4w3
LII
that is what i was getting at. if there is an inescapable appropriation that is required in the act of understanding, this brings into question the validity of socionics in describing what is real, and hence stubborn contradictions that continue to plague me.
S- (E468) : feeling of being disadvantaged in comparison with others
=> I am sadder than others, so others should contribute to my well-being.
S+ (E279) : feeling of being advantaged in comparison with others
=> I am happier than others, so I should contribute to others' well-being.
D- (E459) : feeling of weakness in comparison with others
=> I am weaker than others, so I should avoid them. (that makes E4 ambiguous though)
D+ (E378) : feeling of strength in comparison with others
=> I am stronger than others, so I should challenge them. (that makes E7 ambiguous though)
I don't really know for N-/N+
What is a phi type? Where can I find information about it?
ILE "Searcher"
Socionics: ENTp
DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
Astrological sign: Aquarius
To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.
As a Seven, maybe I can clear up the conflict your theory raises...
I have a personal sense that, compared to others, there's a measure of extremes: some factors are vastly superior to others; other factors are vastly inferior. Which factors fall in which category can change on a moment's notice, since I usually weigh them against a single person at a time.
This causes four recurring personality patterns:
1) I wind up cheerleading for people who I see as being worse off than me. (Interesting note: I don't see others as being inferior, ever, only as superior or in need of my help. (Though, not quite... I do have the inferior category specially reserved, but I don't put those I'm cheering on in there. Can't quite recall what it's for, I think if I need security when I'm trying to cling to the winning side in a fight? But that's not quite right either))
2) I have trouble asking for help with things, because this puts the thing that needs helping in the "vastly inferior" category.
3) I can be quite confrontational when I feel confident, but instantly become submissive if I see that I'm starting to "lose" (I actually forgot what I was going to put here, so this is only a minor point)
4) I try to improve myself to move "vastly inferior" to "vastly superior".
-> w6's weak will means I seldom make good of this, however... and usually wind up forgetting anyway!
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
N means the relative quantity of norepinephrin contained in your brain at its neutral state.
It doesn't matter how many norepinephrin is actually present in your brain, i.e. 200 nanograms or such. It has to feel low, average, or high.
If it feels high (N+), you're a "tense" type.
If it feels average (N0), your anxiety is "average", but you're not gonna think the world is gonna explode all the time.
If it feels low (N-), you're not LSE.
(censored)
Last edited by machintruc; 08-17-2009 at 07:55 PM.
I do not understand these graphs.
But I'm a ++- SEI.
I don't need to imagine one.
I am one.
EDIT
Your graph says that all SEIs are social or self-pres, never sexual. (Never N+.)
Somewhere in the Mysterious Chain of Logiks, there is a problem.
So, my first question is: in what way do you account for moodiness in IP temperament? Or in other words, when an IP is on a high, and thus more mentally active, is your system able to deal with that? Or do you relegate that to some other chemical outside your magic triad?
Likewise, when an IP is on a low, and thus less mentally active (and possibly even slightly depressed, in the colloquial sense).
FURTHER EDIT
Furthermore, there doesn't seem to be easy access to what you link in with different levels of serotonin, dopamine and noradrenaline. For the purposes of this discussion, would you care to explain?
YEAH!
"If you can find out little melodies for yourself on the piano it is all very well. But if they come of themselves when you are not at the piano, then you have still greater reason to rejoice; for then the inner sense of music is astir in you. The fingers must make what the head wills, not vice versa."- Robert Schumann
Man I need help finding everything.
D-SEI 9w1
This is me and my dual being scientific together