Te dual seeking/HA

[Joy]

With the use of Communism vs Capitalism question, lol, I don't see it...

Read Minde's post about different people's answers. It's not about whether people favor one theory or another, it's how they explain each of them.

Honestly, I don't see the difference between and hidden agenda/Dual seeking STILL. These two functions will always confuse me. I mean, I can see myself valuing both in others ... like what the heck is the difference between a "Te" response and a "Ti" response to a question?!?! I'm reading all of these and I don't see anything that jumps out at me and makes me go, oh yes, the way this type of person is explaining such & such is infinitely more understandable than this other person's way

I think the difference, at least in large part, lies here:

I also like it when people make things simple, not complicated.

So the best answers to this question is probably Joy's:

Thanks. (: Generally when people ask me questions like that, I try to get an idea of what they're looking for and then give them an answer in a format that is useful to them. I try to give a relatively concise answer, then wait for a them to ask a question or comment so I know which points they want me to expand on or clarify or what they're trying to accomplish.

Usually once it seems I've answered they're question I'll throw in an idea or opinion I have on the matter. I'll say something like "Now, my stance/opinion/thoughts on the matter are *insert short rant here*, but that's just me."

(That said, if it's a subject I have a lot of interest in, sometimes it's difficult not to talk too much and give them more information than they need, but generally I try to avoid bogging them down with a lot of information or explanation right away because saying too much is more confusing than not saying anything at all. If I do get carried away, I'll try to sum up the general ideas and most important points in a clear way at the end.)

Nice, short, to the point, says what what's supposed to happen, a little bit of why, and some more of what actually happens. If I was interested in the subject I'd probably ask Joy more, not necessarily because she knows a whole lot more than several others who posted, but because she's easiest to understand.

Yeah, I didn't think you were asking because you had an interest in getting a text book explanation or reading an essay on the matter.

Although, being easy to understand, I can see better if she's right or making sense, and in this case she doesn't sound too uninformed.

Thank you, I very much appreciate that.

There aren't many subjects that I claim to be anything even close to an expert on, so it's annoying when people assume that everything I say should be 100% complete and accurate. All I'm doing is taking whatever I've heard/read on the matter and putting it into a format which I think would be useful to them. That's why I generally try to give them some idea of how much (or how little) I've heard/read/experienced on the subject and how reliable my sources are. I want to give them some idea of how useful what I'm telling them is likely to be.

The reason I don't give some people the explanations they ask for here is because I know that they won't take my answers the way you do. When I give people information or explanations on things, I want them to think of me only as one of many possible sources and expect me to be wrong sometimes. And when I am wrong, I don't think it's reasonable to for someone to take offense, act as if a crime has been committed, or conclude that none of the information or explanations I give should ever be taken into consideration... things which unfortunately seem to happen around here sometimes.

Actually, her reply was a little lacking. I could have done with more.

Funny thing is, I actually had written more, but I removed it because I didn't want to be part of a debate on the matter. (There are clearly people here who have more interest in and knowledge about this subject than I do.) And because:

But, then again, if I want to know more I could just ask, choosing from what she said which direction to take. So I guess say only a little initially is best, because it gives me a choice of whether or not I'm interested enough to continue.

That's exactly what my thoughts on the matter were. "If she wants to know more, she'll ask. I'm not even sure where she wants to go with this. I think she probably just wanted examples of different types of answers."

[Minde]

Lol, it does. But Capitalism isn't a political/social philosophy. Communism is. The terms here are important I think, so the contrast isn't really applicable. It's an "apples and oranges" kind of comparison.

Perhaps in the technical sense of the terms. When I asked the question, I was thinking more in the historical context, like capitalist countries vs. communist countries. But, I suppose knowing about the subject includes having correct terminology.

It should make you ask "Why?" I suppose I said it because it's an issue I feel strongly and I tend to think other people should too. Because these aren't just some theories in books, but they have very real effects on every aspect of the lives of billions of people. So they are critical to understand properly imo.

There's nothing really wrong with having a bias, imo. Everybody will have one to some extent anyway. And if one has personal experience with the effects of something, a stronger bias is perfectly understandable. The only problem with a strong bias is that it makes it harder to keep things factual and informative of the situation as a whole. On the other hand, strong feelings on a subject can make one more motivated to talk about it and can be a good way of bringing real examples into the discussion... so, that can be good, too.

I probably overestimated your interest in trying to understand. Otherwise I would have said it a lot differently or not at all. I tend to only share information with people who are interested, as I consider it a waste of time if someone is not.

The point of this... exercise, I guess, was to explain something the way you naturally would. In this case, it's not what you're saying but how you're saying it. I appreciate your willingness to explain, though.

It does keep from being as expanded in my descriptions on here as I'd like sometimes because it can be harder for me to think of the right words for what I want to say. I do strive for correctness yes, but I also make it a point to never bury people in semantics either.

You're doing a great job with the language. I appreciate the effort you put into it.

She's telling you information more in the form of "this is how other people see it, this is what they think of it." She's not telling you it from a more factual conceptual point of view. I suppose I could understand why you prefer it that way.

Your response wasn't that hard to understand or follow. I'd say it'd come right after Joy's in terms of me enjoying reading it and easily getting something from it. And being compared to a textbook isn't exactly an insult as far as I'm concerned. After all, textbooks are generally written with the idea of imparting information and knowledge. A lot of what you said had that bookish feel to it because you used some terms and phrases that were kind of "insider language." I'd need to read more of your "textbook" to understand what you were talking about. Because I have studied this before, albeit probably not as much as you, I was able to follow okay. But if I wasn't previously experienced with the subject it would have been harder.

[Minde]

I thought minde posed the question about capitalism and communism because she wanted to show examples of the differences between her own Te dual seeking and a Te HA. Minde?

Actually, I did it in response to Logos' question of how I would respond to a Ti response as opposed to a Te response.

I'm not confident enough to say what a Ti versus Te response is with lots of certainty, but I can say what's easiest for me to understand and absorb and work with.

[mikemex]

Socialism (what you should have meant when you said 'Communism'): The means of production and distribution of goods and services in an economy are owned and controlled solely by government.

I'm sorry, no offense intended, but this is plain bullshit. I'm grateful that I have learnt from my LII father how to define things in the proper way.

The real difference between socialism and capitalism lies in the "object" which is valuable. In capitalism it is wealth, in socialism it is well-being.

[hellothere]

Would reading lots of reviews on a product (not like, of music or movies, but products that will be put to some use) before deciding which one to buy be more a sign of Te dual-seeking than Te HA?

[Joy]

Sounds like a sign of intelligence to me.