Natalie Portman

[Singu]

Not sure if she's ILE.

ILEs are more expansive and dynamic. They're the kind of type that spreads information everywhere. ILEs will likely talk about anything, especially about things that they've just learned. They're like viruses. They'll come to your house and take anything and everything that they can get their hands on, especially food. They seem to have no concept of privacy or personal belongings. They seem to do or say a lot of things without thinking about it too much. ILEs have this very artificial Fe politeness, especially in public. ILEs seem to care a lot about what everybody else think of them. But when they forget to have manners they can be very "rude" or "offensive". I mean seriously rude, and at times even threatening and intimidating. But these are usually very short lived. After an incident they will likely forget about it. They don't even seem to remember themselves. Even after having a fight with them, they will try to be "buddy-buddy" with you all over again. This can be very puzzling and I think that's what Fi PoLR is all about. At their core they seem to just want to get along with everybody and fight for themselves and their values.

I think an example of ILE: "Woody" from Toy Story.

[Creepy-male]

Not sure if she's ILE.

ILEs are more expansive and dynamic. They're the kind of type that spreads information everywhere. ILEs will likely talk about anything, especially about things that they've just learned. They're like viruses. They'll come to your house and take anything and everything that they can get their hands on, especially food. They seem to have no concept of privacy or personal belongings. They seem to do or say a lot of things without thinking about it too much. ILEs have this very artificial Fe politeness, especially in public. ILEs seem to care a lot about what everybody else think of them. But when they forget to have manners they can be very "rude" or "offensive". I mean seriously rude, and at times even threatening and intimidating. But these are usually very short lived. After an incident they will likely forget about it. They don't even seem to remember themselves. Even after having a fight with them, they will try to be "buddy-buddy" with you all over again. This can be very puzzling and I think that's what Fi PoLR is all about. At their core they seem to just want to get along with everybody and fight for themselves and their values.

I think an example of ILE: "Woody" from Toy Story.

My god, you make ILE's sound like monsters.

The artificial Fe politeness, isn't artificial, they are literally Fe valuing, meaning their emotionality is Fe > Fi. They tend to be more merry-fun-dramatic and less serious-relationship based. The fact Fe doesn't appear in their ego block just simply means while they value it, its hard for them to create an emotional atmosphere or control/be aware of their feelings well.

Secondarily, Fi-POLR isn't some extreme rudeness, but rather a kind of irreverance that SLE's and ILE's have. Fi-POLR comes from any type that leads with an extroverted perceiving function. This can be looked at as.... they simply extrovert what they see in reality, rather than process these perceptions heavily into politically correct statements that will mesh well with other people's values out of curteousy and conscientiousness.

Also Fi-POLR manifests itself as an unawareness to where they stand in relationships with people. An ILE may have trouble determining things like.... when an intimate relationship has progressed to a certain level.... the difference between being friends with someone and being friendly. Whether someone likes them or hates them. Fi strong types can tell this by searching their feelings about a relationship and feeling a real palpitable sense of friendship or intimacy to let them know things are to that level. Fi-POLR types are unsure about this stuff. And un-attentive to being kind to other people's sense of personal values and sentiments. Fi-POLRs just call it like they see it and that irreverance is offensive and alienating to other people. But ILE's and SLE's are extremely shrewd and clever and adaptive and so they may be alienated for a short while, but always find another way through utilization of or .

Also ILE's do remember themselves, they aren't some kind of dumb machine or something. I think what you're describing is more their need to adapt quickly to reality it's the Exxp temperament.

[Marie84]

ILEs are more expansive and dynamic. They're the kind of type that spreads information everywhere. ILEs will likely talk about anything, especially about things that they've just learned. They're like viruses. They'll come to your house and take anything and everything that they can get their hands on, especially food. They seem to have no concept of privacy or personal belongings. They seem to do or say a lot of things without thinking about it too much.

This has been my experience with living with two of them growing-up, particularly these parts...

ILEs have this very artificial Fe politeness, especially in public. ILEs seem to care a lot about what everybody else think of them.

A lot of these points I've recently brought up for the real life examples section for ILE.
I've observed them to go out of their way to be nice to strangers and immediately turn to a detached state when the stranger leaves; it dose come of as an obsession with wanting to be admired and adored but that behavior fades as soon as you get close to them, because that behavior isn't natural to them even if it's not intentionally meant to be manipulative.
I'm guessing they do this to get Si+Fe, someone to take care of them and shower them with positive lovey emotions...

But when they forget to have manners they can be very "rude" or "offensive". I mean seriously rude, and at times even threatening and intimidating. But these are usually very short lived. After an incident they will likely forget about it. They don't even seem to remember themselves. Even after having a fight with them, they will try to be "buddy-buddy" with you all over again. This can be very puzzling and I think that's what Fi PoLR is all about. At their core they seem to just want to get along with everybody and fight for themselves and their values.

Yes, very much so. PoLR's can say and do some really messed-up things to people and than pull a 180 latter by acting positive to you as if everything they said/did prior never happened. Before finding Socionics, I thought this behavior could be attributed to them being Bipolar or having an Antisocial disorder

[Blaze]

these last couple of posts are excellent examples of differences in quadra values playing themselves out. singularity and marie84 see ILE's as much more villainous since they value Fi. haveluciddreams (and myself btw) see it more in terms of how it is actually meant by ILEs themselves. in my opinion, the truer statements are made by haveluciddreams, since no type intends to make others suffer with their polr. the idea is to understand where people are coming from from their own point of view/ego functions.

marie84, you'll pardon my saying so, but you obviously have issues with your mother who is ILE. you grew up around an Fi polr as a kid who has Fi leading. i'm sure that would be hard to have one's ego constantly de-valued by one's own mother. if it makes you feel any better i had to put up with my EII father supervision all those years. i just don't think i can evaluate EII's clearly since i've got issues with them. and i would say the same for you.

just remember: everybody has a supervisor and everybody has a supervisee. so if at any time i start to think i'm all that over my supervisee, think again.

we all fit and we're all supposed to be here. if it were not for Fi polr, a lot of kings would be going around naked since no one would have the courage to comment on the fact that the king has no clothes. not everything has to be handled in a diplomatic touchy feeley politically correct way. as a matter of fact, a lot of things don't have to be handled that way.

[Creepy-male]

Yea I don't like socionics being used to point out "types or quadras" you hate. Alot of times its a specific experience with a person you hate... then you turn to socionics to explain why you hate them.... which then creates a stereotype that you apply to everyone you meet of that type... solely because someone else somewhere else did something you didn't like to you.

It's not really Marie or this topic... but the whole "betas are evil" thing that spread like wildfire and other stuff.

[Singu]

these last couple of posts are excellent examples of differences in quadra values playing themselves out. singularity and marie84 see ILE's as much more villainous since they value Fi. haveluciddreams (and myself btw) see it more in terms of how it is actually meant by ILEs themselves. in my opinion, the truer statements are made by haveluciddreams, since no type intends to make others suffer with their polr. the idea is to understand where people are coming from from their own point of view/ego functions.

No listen, that's not what I meant. And I don't even value Fi :wink:. What I described is probably more on the unhealthy side of the spectrum. I'd agree that attempts to hurt others have nothing to do with types or functions. But I think the general idea remains the same. ILEs have trouble discerning who likes whom and who dislikes whom, which is why they might get into trouble with people. Don't take it personally. Socionics is pretty silly, anyway.

But the real point that I wanted to make... is that if you think that an ILE is "cute" or "sweet"... then that's probably not an ILE. I mean OF COURSE... ILEs have the POTENTIAL to become vicious.

[Blaze]

No listen, that's not what I meant. And I don't even value Fi :wink:. What I described is probably more on the unhealthy side of the spectrum. I'd agree that attempts to hurt others have nothing to do with types or functions. But I think the general idea remains the same. ILEs have trouble discerning who likes whom and who dislikes whom, which is why they might get into trouble with people. Don't take it personally. Socionics is pretty silly, anyway.

But the real point that I wanted to make... is that if you think that an ILE is "cute" or "sweet"... then that's probably not an ILE. I mean OF COURSE... ILEs have the POTENTIAL to become vicious.

agree w the bold, disagree with the italics. lol.

young ILE's are very sweet and charming. take my 8yo daughter for instance.

but yeah we can't tell who likes who and hates who it is definitely a problem.

apologize if i put you in the wrong quadra, too.

[Marie84]

these last couple of posts are excellent examples of differences in quadra values playing themselves out. singularity and marie84 see ILE's as much more villainous since they value Fi. haveluciddreams (and myself btw) see it more in terms of how it is actually meant by ILEs themselves. in my opinion, the truer statements are made by haveluciddreams, since no type intends to make others suffer with their polr. the idea is to understand where people are coming from from their own point of view/ego functions.

I don't think Fi PoLR equates to villainy because I don't believe there is an automatic malicious intent involved (of course there is in some cases, though that isn't really Socionics related...)
But yes I agree that different types will generally see things under differing lights

marie84, you'll pardon my saying so, but you obviously have issues with your mother who is ILE. you grew up around an Fi polr as a kid who has Fi leading. i'm sure that would be hard to have one's ego constantly de-valued by one's own mother. if it makes you feel any better i had to put up with my EII father supervision all those years. i just don't think i can evaluate EII's clearly since i've got issues with them. and i would say the same for you.

You are probably right, but my observations are not focused on a single ILE (in this case my mom) but of a few I've known well enough throughout my life, particularly two others I knew/know very well (a brother and a past friend)
I'd also imagine that living with an EII had an profound affect on you and don't want to make it seem that this is a one side, or one-type, issue

we all fit and we're all supposed to be here. if it were not for Fi polr, a lot of kings would be going around naked since no one would have the courage to comment on the fact that the king has no clothes. not everything has to be handled in a diplomatic touchy feeley politically correct way. as a matter of fact, a lot of things don't have to be handled that way.

You make a good point about different types being able to handle things that others may have difficulties with. I also like to be clear that I don't see any type/IE being without flaws, especially if seen from opposing sides/values

[Blaze]

I don't think Fi PoLR equates to villainy because I don't believe there is an automatic malicious intent involved (of course there is in some cases, though that isn't really Socionics related...)
But yes I agree that different types will generally see things under differing lights

ok. the way you writer about ILE esp Fi polr sometimes seems a little cutting though.

You are probably right, but my observations are not focused on a single ILE (in this case my mom) but of a few I've known well enough throughout my life, particularly two others I knew/know very well (a brother and a past friend)
I'd also imagine that living with an EII had an profound affect on you and don't want to make it seem that this is a one side, or one-type, issue

i don't disagree with your observations it's your interpretation of those observations! it's almost like the worst possible interpretation but i guess that's your job, no? haha i won't deny that ILE's Fi polr can be awkward, but we don't usually mean any harm and more often than not we hurt ourselves not others.

well there really is no doubt that i have issues related to my EII father. if anything as a result of being around him i focus much more on Fi than is healthy for me to do!! it's like i'm always trying to improve it but never getting anywhere, whereas i'd be better off just being my normal NeTi self. the thing with supervision is that even though it's right it doesn't work.

regarding your mother, no matter what you do you will not be able to change her. the best shot is to put an Fe ego around her....this gives her the best chance of lightening up.

You make a good point about different types being able to handle things that others may have difficulties with. I also like to be clear that I don't see any type/IE being without flaws, especially if seen from opposing sides/values

yes.

[Ave]

Well I see her as IEI but the vibe she gives off is more alpha IMO, yet SEI doesnt feel right either, so maybe the people who said Alpha NT are correct. I would vouch for INTj.