I feel like I'm beating a dead horse in trying to insist I'm EII, or even Delta, but I feel that the description of the EII better resonates with how I see myself..
I feel like I'm beating a dead horse in trying to insist I'm EII, or even Delta, but I feel that the description of the EII better resonates with how I see myself..
I am going to blow the horn of Rohan, and give them all some music they have never heard before.
The LIE's I have seen have at least ostensibly been quite confident in themselves and straight to the point. It is the ESI's that have had "inferiority" complexes and sent out the LIE's to do the rough stuff on their behalf if it is something upsetting that has to be dealt with. It is also typical of ESI to tie a very tight group of trusted friends around them. And it is not easy to be accepted into this group. Also the ESI will be quick to criticize if someone behaves in a non acceptable manner (in the eyes of the ESI). This may baffle the other person greatly as that person's and the ESI's value system may well differ. But the ESI can also be artistic and a great story tellers. ESI's hate to be psychoanalyzed/dissected by others.Originally Posted by Expat
I think Mona values bothand
, but she seems to be equally confident/non-confident in both, especially when she mentions thinks like "inferiority complex" --which I think is significant.
Anyway, I will place a small bet on LIE for the moment.
Mona I do think you are gamma, and ESI very likely based on the way you describe yourself. You don't come across as EII to me at all.
INFp
If your sea chart does not match reality, go with reality (Old mariner saying)
Personally I'm deliberately ignoring that for the moment.
If your family is Alpha, it makes perfect sense that as a Gamma you'd have an "inferiority complex". Maybe ESI is the best solution overall. You'd hardly be the first ESI to identify with EII.
Anyway, perhaps you can tell more about your clashes with your Alphas.
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Why would a Gamma have an inferiority complex to Alphas anymore than an Alpha would have an inferiority complex to Gammas? Clashes are not merely between opposing Quadras, but also between adjacent Quadras and even within Quadras at time. Just because a group may be all Alpha or all Gamma does not necessarily mean that sunny days, puppies, and world peace will follow. I would recommend asking for more than just her clashes with Alpha, but with her experiences with other quadras as well. Just asking about clashes with Alpha will most likely result in you finding what you set out to find in your question-begging.
That said: She does resemble Joy.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
Who said "anymore"? The point is if you are the only member of one quadra growing up in a family otherwise of the opposing quadra. I assure you, from personal experience, it's not helpful to your self-image. It's basically a "you can't do anything right" situation.
No one did, but the statement in itself was open enough that it could have possibly implied, so I sought clarification to make sure.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
It's not impossible by any means. Especially after I reread the thread and noticed a few things I missed the first time through (underlined).
"People (mostly acquaintances) frequently come to me for emotional advice.
With my closest friend - and online friends - I typically have no problem expressing my feelings. However, with those who are closer friends offline, I need a lot of time to think about what I am going to say and why. I often wait until it is too late to reveal something important/emotionally charged about myself, and then either feeling guilty for not saying it, relieved I don't have to say it, or a combination of both.
I have the most inexplicable feelings sometimes, and I need my closest friend to support me as figure out why/what I am feeling. =P"
Fi ego does sound probable. Here are a couple of (possibly inane and unclear) questions:
As we go about our daily lives, we pretty routinely recognize problems. What kinds or types of problems strike you as being the easiest or most immediately perceivable and important to address? Secondly, once you've got the problem in your sights, how do you go about resolving or treating it? These might not be incredibly useful or pertinent to ask, but, hey, maybe it will provide one of us with some insight?
Moonlight will fall
Winter will end
Harvest will come
Your heart will mend
Extroverted sensing? I'm much more intuitive than sensing, I'm pretty certain of that. =P
My father is very literal, and takes things very seriously, but in the same way he also seems to pick on things I do that he interprets as negative, disrespectful, or somehow "wrong." Often he says I have emotional problems, which makes me feel rather negative about myself. I think "Supervision" describes our interaction the best...
"Relations of Supervision can give the impression that Supervisor is constantly watching every step of the Supervisee. ...This makes the Supervisee nervous and expect the worse."
... anyway, I have more, but I've got to run out the door. (I feel odd leaving this post unfinished, strangely enough.)
I am going to blow the horn of Rohan, and give them all some music they have never heard before.
@Mona: Out of pure curiosity, could you explain precisely what it is about atheism and/or agnosticism that you consider to be "mental suicide?" I am neither an atheist nor an agnostic. I merely would like to here an explanation for your statement.
Classical socionics: (
Dual-type theory: INTp-ENTp
5w6 sp/sx
MBTI: INTJ
I didn't say it; Chesterton did. In retrospect, I must note that he first made the point about pessimism being mental suicide, and later tied it in with something that touched on atheism and agnosticism. I thought it apt because he said that while optimists may display a lack of common sense by not being skeptical/realist enough, pessimists take the common sense so far that they end up "thinking too little and too wrong"...
It was a piece of a quote I was looking for, but ended up going with something else, which - as you can see - has also changed...
@ Salawa: Yes, I noted that on the socionics.com page. Either I'm not EII (seems somewhat likely), or he's not ILE (which hasn't even been conclusively decided). Or the fact he's my father screws things up...
I am going to blow the horn of Rohan, and give them all some music they have never heard before.
Just FYI Mona..... my first inclinations were INFj and ENTj before you started writing posts, the latter being based on your appearance being like Joys, (yeah I noticed it too) so there is at least 1 person who thinks you very well could be INFj....
Suomea
Sorry, missed your post before. =P
In the context of what people come to me with... I think I see attitude problems the easiest/most. How other people see things. If someone comes to me with a problem with their parents or other people, I can tell immediately if they're not being reasonable enough with that person. One's outlook on people/life skews everything he/she does and says, and I can tell if that person's attitude is conducive to communication with those that person seems to hate/resent.
In my daily life, I think that the problems I most often recognize are problems in myself. For example ... I know that I'm managing my time poorly, but I can't seem to change that habit (more laziness than any type indicator, maybe). I also recognize problems in what people do, and why. (It's not so much what they do that bothers me so much, but why.)
Some small problems I find are ones that give me a sense of unrest. Keeping a door open while doing something like writing, stepping in water with socks on, sudden noises or a constant atmosphere of jumping and falling noise... it seems it's the element of surprise that bothers me.
If people come to me, depending on the scale of the problem, I'll give them understated advice. I often feel compelled to snap at them if they're being ridiculous - I'm good at snapping at people, because by the time I actually tear into them, I know exactly what I'm going to say - but I usually don't because I don't want to hurt their feelings.Secondly, once you've got the problem in your sights, how do you go about resolving or treating it? These might not be incredibly useful or pertinent to ask, but, hey, maybe it will provide one of us with some insight?
In my daily life, with people around me, I'm fairly easy-going as far as problems go, unless it's something long-lasting and emotionally disturbing (moving, financial issues, prospect of family breaking up, etc). I'm fairly flexible in my surroundings, but I'm very anti-change in my emotional state... if that makes sense. Small, every-day problems I often take the initiative to change if I think they're going to cause even more problems further on.
I am going to blow the horn of Rohan, and give them all some music they have never heard before.
Hmm, so you are very sensitive to your surroundings?
You are very intune where people stand with each other.
And when do EII ever snap and especially tear into people?
You mentioned your father saying something about you having emotional problems. Have you teared into him too?
INFp
If your sea chart does not match reality, go with reality (Old mariner saying)
you're really sounding ISFj right now.
Whee, being typed all over the board.
... not sure. I've heard it said (and something tells me that I read it here) that every time an INFj gets angry, somewhere a fairy dies.
Or something.
I don't go around picking fights, though. I'm very easy-going and laid-back. If people are being exasperatingly obstinate, however, in the worst case scenario I often ignore my better judgment and point out what they're doing wrong, and what they need to do in order to change it. When I do that, I know I'm not taking into consideration what that person may actually need to hear or see - less harshness, more understanding, etc. However, sometimes people really do need a 2 by 4 in order to realize where they are. I've needed many of them in my life.
No, he references my tendency to withdraw and hide from the world when he talks about my emotional problems. Besides, I dare not contradict him; I'm entirely too smart for that.You mentioned your father saying something about you having emotional problems. Have you teared into him too?
I am going to blow the horn of Rohan, and give them all some music they have never heard before.
You sound... fictional to me. I have a hard time imagining somebody like you being. You're so different and far away from what I consider normal and everyday.
lol no Mona is just very ESI
INFp
If your sea chart does not match reality, go with reality (Old mariner saying)
Sorry to hear that.
I am going to blow the horn of Rohan, and give them all some music they have never heard before.
Like I said, I'm pretty sure I'm more intuitive than sensing. Also, based on wikisocion, I don't feel that I correspond with extroverted feeling. I have a very hard time putting myself in a group's "emotional situation" (of light-heartedness/trading jokes, etc) in real life, and "sustain[ing] that mood in [myself] for a long period of time." It seems easier online, I think, but in real life I'm hardly capable of that. My conversations with people in real life are usually very awkward... nonexistent if I don't know them at all.lol no Mona is just very ESI
I am going to blow the horn of Rohan, and give them all some music they have never heard before.
I have no doubt that you are ESI Mona. You sound like the twin of an ISFj I knew very well, your looks also are not that far off. I've certainly been torn into and had enough 2 by 4s around my ears to last a lifetimeIt is why an INFp and ISFj together may be a bad idea, two very passionate sensitive people close together who view things quite differently. The passion department certainly is no problem, it is too much passion that is <3
INFp
If your sea chart does not match reality, go with reality (Old mariner saying)
well, which form of intuition do you relate to more, extroverted intuition or introverted intuition? that could be telling.
and sorry about the quick typing. i just had one of those moments of realization that you match up pretty perfectly with what i know via reading and such about ISFjs, and i believe my jaw dropped. i might still be inclined to think INFj could work, but you seem a bit different and rather gamma. and this is outside of the poor relationship with your ENTp father.
kudos to liking AYBABTU for it's poor english and serious tone. i had to go watch it for old times' sake.
Or maybe I'm just insane, and it explains away the other typings. And the fact snegledmaca is having a hard time believing that I'm real...
EDIT: ... then again, Chesterton says sanity is a form of equilibrium.
Somebody set us up the bomb.
From what I can see, I relate more to introverted intuition. And it seems to correspond with what my father says about the presence of my own "little mental world"...
I am going to blow the horn of Rohan, and give them all some music they have never heard before.
Don't think you are insane, but you are polarizing which is another typical ESI trait in my book. I've seen the reaction Snegledmaca had a lot of times.
That is also part of the reason you tend to want to have a close group of trusted friends.
INFp
If your sea chart does not match reality, go with reality (Old mariner saying)
Hmm, I think one of the reasons I don't want to be anything but EII is because I don't want to not be INFJ MBTI. But it dawned on me (finally?) that I can be INFJ MBTI and something different in Socionics. (MBTI is very polarizing, I think - E/I, N/S, T/F, P/J - no room for the ways people use their different personality elements...)
(It's times like these I feel very stupid, which happens often, so bear with me.)
I am going to blow the horn of Rohan, and give them all some music they have never heard before.
oh, mona. please consider gamma quadra > delta quadra! my favorite chesterton quote is - "don't ever take a fence down until you know the reason it was put up." i think i might agree with wittmont on what he says about ESIs having a more "polarizing" presence. i don't sense this from you, but i believe that EXTps might?
Everything in me, having been brainwashed by MBTI, screams "NOOOOO~ I'M NOT P~ CANNOT BE~"
I like to make decisions quickly if I have all the information necessary to make it. For example, if I'm going to make a decision on whether to go with someone somewhere, I want to know whether I could be doing something more insightful/enjoyable/educational. If it's not any of those things, I know instantly I don't want to do it. I feel strange if people attempt to reason with me using pieces of information I've already considered.
But this is MBTI speaking.
Last edited by Mona; 01-10-2008 at 05:53 PM. Reason: pointing out my own stupidity. :D
I am going to blow the horn of Rohan, and give them all some music they have never heard before.
Not sure I understand what you mean about not being P~.
INFp
If your sea chart does not match reality, go with reality (Old mariner saying)
Perceiving vs. Judging.
And the tilde is just my method of describing over-the-top emotion.
EDIT:
@Salawa: Yes, I'm trying to do that. It's hard, though, when people say "I think you're ExTP" and you're quite certain you're anything but ExxP, MBTI-speaking...
I am going to blow the horn of Rohan, and give them all some music they have never heard before.
You are not P. I strongly belive you are ISFj, with IJ temperament andas your leading blocks.
Edit.
INFp
If your sea chart does not match reality, go with reality (Old mariner saying)
.
Same here. A vision of clarity. That's why I said she was so far removed from my world. And like she said, it is a pity.?? She sounds exactly normal to me.
Ah. Sorry, misunderstanding.implied wasn't actually suggesting that you were ExTp, but rather that such types might sense a "polarizing" presence from you.
Extroverted sensing as my creative function strangely makes sense; I am not afraid of conflict but I typically don't seek it out.You are not P. I strongly belive you are ISFj, with IJ temperament and
Edit.
... oddly enough, ESI makes perfect sense. The Alpha-Gamma interaction is definitely present there.
I am going to blow the horn of Rohan, and give them all some music they have never heard before.
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