So hi, opinions please

[xyz]

The delta's are dropping like flies.

[Park]

The delta's are dropping like flies.

Your turn next.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

You'll change to something else soon enough.

[Jarno]

...making type threads. I've decided I'm LSI.

I'm glad you did.

I think you don't know shit about types, and therefor it's a good thing if you type yourself different then I would. Cause if we had the same opinion, it would mean I'm at a same level of understanding as you are.

[crazedrat]

yeah i was stunned when i realized i was an INFp. But I think there was still something legitimate to the INTp I thought I was. Looking into Tcauds dual type has convinced me there's more to us than a simple one type.

[717495]

I'm glad you did.

I think you don't know shit about types, and therefor it's a good thing if you type yourself different then I would. Cause if we had the same opinion, it would mean I'm at a same level of understanding as you are.

I don't think you have to worry about having the same understanding as anybody.

[Gilly]

TOLDJA SO

...k I'm done. Welcome to Beta.

[thePirate]

I'm glad you did.

I think you don't know shit about types, and therefor it's a good thing if you type yourself different then I would. Cause if we had the same opinion, it would mean I'm at a same level of understanding as you are.

I dont see anything wrong with her typing, if you have a different opinion backed by something even half solid, I would definitely like to hear it.

[xyz]

I wonder if your opinion would've changed if you frequented another forum, Jessica.

[Jarno]

I wonder if your opinion would've changed if you frequented another forum, Jessica.

exactly

[Jarno]

I don't think you have to worry about having the same understanding as anybody.

And people take you seriously?

[Creepy-Cyclops]

I don't think you have to worry about having the same understanding as anybody.

And people take you seriously?

lol, touché.

[Cyrano]

TOLDJA SO

...k I'm done. Welcome to Beta.

No. Jessica is ours. You can't have her. Come home Jessica. You are the Queen of the misfit SLI.

[crazedrat]

Cyrano... you are tempted by the dark side.. Sooner or later you will turn, too. And then when you face your old delta brothers you will pull out the newest MP-41 submachine gun and slaughter them like pigs. PIGS!! ALL PIGS..

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Cyrano... you are tempted by the dark side.. Sooner or later you will turn, too. And then you will turn around and face your delta brothers, and you will slaughter them like pigs. PIGS!! ALL PIGS..

Is this what is known as Beta Se territorial expansion?

I thought about Beta expansion, but could only think of this:



Although this isn't so bad:



Which rather strangely was the first to come up form googling "fat waist from side images", presumably some sort of rubber reducing corset.

[Cyrano]

Cyrano... you are tempted by the dark side.. Sooner or later you will turn, too. And then when you face your old delta brothers, and you will pull out the newest MP-41 submachine gun and slaughter them like pigs. PIGS!! ALL PIGS..

NEVER you Beta dog! I serve at the pleasure of our Queen, Jessica, (Abbey is the President).






Beta is the second letter for a reason.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Beta is the second letter for a reason.

And Delta is last, because all good things come to those who wait (just like a pint of guinness).

[Nexus]

I was always sure you were SLI, I know a female SLI petty officer and she VIs like you; but LSI is possible

I have been rethinking my own self-typing, mostly because in the Navy aristocracy, only high ranks get to be cool and have cool Beta personalities like LSI and EIE (which are reserved for high ranks), that way all the subordinates are systematically excluded from the in-crowd/command-center and communicatively in-tune only with their own compatriots...pity...stubborn as I am, I have recently been considering the accepting subtypes of ENTx...

I'm glad you did.

I think you don't know shit about types, and therefor it's a good thing if you type yourself different then I would. Cause if we had the same opinion, it would mean I'm at a same level of understanding as you are.

hmmm...then know this: demonstrating a complete lack of understanding* is a sure tactic to achieve that objective no matter what the other side thinks

*by this I mean understanding something (subjectively) besides what you already believe you know and thereby communicating an ability to communicate

[Ezra]

The delta's are dropping like flies.

No, they're actually ascending to godlike status.

Your turn next.

Then yours.

You'll change to something else soon enough.

Then yours as well.

[somavision]

Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world – he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

[krieger]

As the newest LSI, I'd like to say that if wikisocion ever get's back up, there needs to be a SERIOUS overhauling of the description. Well basically, I think the descriptions can all just remain deleted because frankly they suck...well most of them.

If there isn't any ISTj description among the full body of materials written about socionics that you do identify with to at least some extent, you have a reason to worry.

[Blaze]

...making type threads. I've decided I'm LSI. I'm not even joking anymore. No sarcasm. Everything fits in place, everything makes sense. SLI is so completely and entirely wrong and I take full blame for completely misunderstanding socionics and possibly screwing up other people's perceptions of what a SLI is. I'm not sure why I feel guilty for that, but I do...so, sorry. I'm not really sure why I even felt compelled to have to "declare" it or something, it just feels good. As the newest LSI, I'd like to say that if wikisocion ever get's back up, there needs to be a SERIOUS overhauling of the description. Well basically, I think the descriptions can all just remain deleted because frankly they suck...well most of them.

Sorry Gilly, for thinking you were crazy this entire time. OMG Dualz??? I guess I shall attempt to grow a moustache to make it even more complete.

i always thought you were LSI. cool that you know now too!

on the other hand what's with the massive beta shift? part of me thinks it's bullshit. not in jessica's case but in a lot of others. to me, it just seems like the trendy quadra right now.

[krieger]

FTR: I think this re-typing is wrong. I will quote this message and post "told you so" when Jessica returns to her old typing.

yeah i was stunned when i realized i was an INFp. But I think there was still something legitimate to the INTp I thought I was. Looking into Tcauds dual type has convinced me there's more to us than a simple one type.

How many people support calling you an INFp knowing that you use tcaudilllgian dual types to explain inconsistencies that arise from doing so?

[silverchris9]

How many people support calling you an INFp knowing that you use tcaudilllgian dual types to explain inconsistencies that arise from doing so?

Meh. I support crazed-as-IEI because he's pretty obviously beta (or at least, he seems beta in the context of this forum, which may or may not be an accurate representation of the beta quadra in general, I'm thinking maybe and of course there's the whole real life =/= forums thing), and consider that said inconsistencies are more likely to result from expecting regular old socionics to cover or account for things that it generally doesn't account for. Or maybe the dual types are right. But why is tcaudillgian an adjective...? *sigh*

[Jarno]

As the newest LSI, I'd like to say that if wikisocion ever get's back up, there needs to be a SERIOUS overhauling of the description. Well basically, I think the descriptions can all just remain deleted because frankly they suck...well most of them.

You want the LSI descriptions to sound more like SLI, so you can identify better with them. hehe.

[Satan]

Meh. I support crazed-as-IEI because he's pretty obviously beta (or at least, he seems beta in the context of this forum, which may or may not be an accurate representation of the beta quadra in general, I'm thinking maybe and of course there's the whole real life =/= forums thing), and consider that said inconsistencies are more likely to result from expecting regular old socionics to cover or account for things that it generally doesn't account for. Or maybe the dual types are right. But why is tcaudillgian an adjective...? *sigh*

You explain yourself too much. Just say: Crazed is INFp.

[crazedrat]

How many people support calling you an INFp knowing that you use tcaudilllgian dual types to explain inconsistencies that arise from doing so?

And what is your opinion on my type?
Do not attempt to discredit me by labeling me "tcaudillgian".

[discojoe]

Jessica seems to innocently make comments that I could only make with deliberate maliciousness. When she says that someone is ugly, it is a genuine comment about her feelings toward that person. When I say someone is ugly, it is a calculated snipe at their self-image (and I know this is bad behavior that I need to stop).

So I think Jessica is ST, but she seems to have an Fe PoLR, making Fe ignoring comments because she sincerely doesn't give a damn about it, whereas I ignore Fe because I value it and assume others do too.

[jessica129]

So I think Jessica is ST, but she seems to have an Fe PoLR, making Fe ignoring comments because she sincerely doesn't give a damn about it

...examples?

[Park]

When she says that someone is ugly, it is a genuine comment about her feelings toward that person. When I say someone is ugly, it is a calculated snipe at their self-image (and I know this is bad behavior that I need to stop).

[discojoe]

You do realize you wrote, "Jessica is genuine, but I'm a manipulative little bitch," right? That's really not the difference between Fe polr and Fe dual-seeking.

Fe PoLR does not try to maintain any kind of positive atmosphere; it doesn't even think about doing so. It makes awkward comments about things because it doesn't give a moment's thought to how inappropriate it is to just come out and say things.

Example:

"Do you still throw spears at each other?"

-Prince Philip (ILI), to Australian Aborigines, during a visit to Queensland, 2002.


Fi PoLR consciously strives to maintain a positive atmosphere, but often crosses the line by accident.

Example:

"The water company sends water to the farmer. The farmer sends grain to the miller--stop drooling, Kevin; it's not Miller beer I'm talking about."

-My economics teacher, to a portly white student in his mid thirties.

I only mention Fi PoLR because I think it's necessary to understand it if you are to understand Fe PoLR properly.

Fe Dual-Seeking is a matter of not being able to emotionally connect with people on your own. People with Fe DS want to have someone who is so emotionally expressive that there is little to no ambiguity about the state of relations between the two from the perspective of the Fe dual-seeker.

What I said about Jessica was not related to a particular trait of Fe dual-seeking, but a remark about how comments she makes make more sense coming from someone with an Fe PoLR than someone with Fe Dual-Seeking. When I make jackass comments to people, I do so with the deliberate intent of making it clear that I regard them with extreme malicious intent, whereas Jessica's comments are more like simple statements of fact.

[idealistichick]

yay another Beta, and more importantly my dual =)

[discojoe]

To say that an LSI should have good control and awareness of Fe is just wrong. They want to be aware of it, but never really know if they're still liked, how they've impacted someone, or if they're doing all right with people. It's a true vulnerability, not something they can manipulate at will.

You've totally misunderstood what I said.

What I am saying is that, when I insult someone, I basically project my own desires onto them and then deny them fulfillment of those desires. I want positive emotional expression, so I lash out at people I don't like with an outrageous demonstration of negative sentiment. I am not saying that this is something I am able to deftly manipulate at will; it happens because I overreact to feelings of frustration, and I don't need any bitchy, judgmental remarks about it.

[discojoe]

Jessica might be LSI, or SLE, or SLI, but telling everyone that you're spiteful and she's not and it's because you value Fe and she doesn't is just stupid.

This is an absurd interpretation of what I said.

[Satan]

This is an absurd interpretation of what I said.

that's delta reasoning for you.

[Satan]

Of course. Come on - this shit is one reason why people are always hopping around changing types. It's not helpful. It's like when jarno said how he compares forum posters with each other to figure out their types. How idiotic can you be. You make everything relative and you never get anywhere, always going in circles. I think everyone knows this, but most just like the merry-go-round.

[Blaze]

Of course. Come on - this shit is one reason why people are always hopping around changing types. It's not helpful. It's like when jarno said how he compares forum posters with each other to figure out their types. How idiotic can you be. You make everything relative and you never get anywhere, always going in circles. I think everyone knows this, but most just like the merry-go-round.

exactly the flaw in typing by relation. if you type by relation, you could be almost any type or any 4 types, making the entire exercise "relative" and diluting the entire theory.

[discojoe]

exactly the flaw in typing by relation. if you type by relation, you could be almost any type or any 4 types, making the entire exercise "relative" and diluting the entire theory.

That's not a flaw in typing by relation.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

exactly the flaw in typing by relation. if you type by relation, you could be almost any type or any 4 types, making the entire exercise "relative" and diluting the entire theory.

I think typing by relation in real life is a great way to go, incase you didn't mean that?

Although yeah, it helps to have an idea of what type you are in the first place, but say, you think you might be ISTj or ISTp, then it's easier to decide who you get on with if you can type other people right (assuming the problem is you just can't type yourself).

Trying to decide if you're, for instance, ISTj or ESTp can still be done by relations, maybe better as one soon realises who in their quadra they get on better with (ie, naturally just fit into their rhythm better, like IP/EJ temperaments)

[thePirate]

Fe PoLR does not try to maintain any kind of positive atmosphere; it doesn't even think about doing so. It makes awkward comments about things because it doesn't give a moment's thought to how inappropriate it is to just come out and say things.

Example:

"Do you still throw spears at each other?"

-Prince Philip (ILI), to Australian Aborigines, during a visit to Queensland, 2002.


Fi PoLR consciously strives to maintain a positive atmosphere, but often crosses the line by accident.

Example:

"The water company sends water to the farmer. The farmer sends grain to the miller--stop drooling, Kevin; it's not Miller beer I'm talking about."

-My economics teacher, to a portly white student in his mid thirties.

I only mention Fi PoLR because I think it's necessary to understand it if you are to understand Fe PoLR properly.

Fe Dual-Seeking is a matter of not being able to emotionally connect with people on your own. People with Fe DS want to have someone who is so emotionally expressive that there is little to no ambiguity about the state of relations between the two from the perspective of the Fe dual-seeker.

What I said about Jessica was not related to a particular trait of Fe dual-seeking, but a remark about how comments she makes make more sense coming from someone with an Fe PoLR than someone with Fe Dual-Seeking. When I make jackass comments to people, I do so with the deliberate intent of making it clear that I regard them with extreme malicious intent, whereas Jessica's comments are more like simple statements of fact.

Good distinction, I was talking to someone about this.

Fi Polr - making crude comments or comments that are not considered politically correct for the sake of keeping a desirable emotional atmosphere

Fe Polr - making comments that disregard the emotional state of the person or disrupt the emotional atmosphere for the sake of relationship building, more likely to be seen as stereotypically awkward.

For logicals, their weak and open areas are the ethical elements. This is where they're vulnerable, perhaps suspicious, and overly open to input. Lacking guile is one demonstration of this vulnerability. Another is overcompensation, being perpetually "smiley" or carefully following social conventions that have worked in the past. You observe and try to fit in with how people generally do things, but you're never entirely sure of the effect.

Both logicals and ethicals will say things with the intent to hurt others sometimes when angry or upset. And everyone makes jokes. But craftily manipulating a desired effect, and knowing when you can act one way, and when another, is not a strength or focus.

XLEs are often good with people because they're not good with people. They joke and goof around and it works. XLIs say funny or hurtful things and get forgiven for their innocence. LXIs follow the patterns that have worked in the past, not knowing when they should do something different. An SEE (the politician) on the other hand is sometimes not good with people because they are - because they know the strings to pull and how to manipulate, and people put up a defense, or get an inkling suspicion that something's going on. Creative Fe is the best at subtle emotional control without anyone caring that they are manipulating or being suspicious of it.

To say that an LSI should have good control and awareness of Fe is just wrong. They want to be aware of it, but never really know if they're still liked, how they've impacted someone, or if they're doing all right with people. It's a true vulnerability, not something they can manipulate at will.

Joe I see what your saying, and thats interesting. I agree somewhat that ISTjs would make less comments like that, probably due to Fi role. That being said, I hesitate to look too much into it. I dont think its indicative of Fe Polr, and I believe she is ISTj-Se so that might explain it a little. Regardless, theres no way in my mind shes a delta. She doesnt exhibit delta values, if her posts over the years are any indication. She doesnt even resemble an SLI in the slightest IMO. She appears to be an absolute beta by any means, I just wonder if its LSI or SLE. In either case I dont see any compelling reason to question her at this point.