The fact that Elena the Italian Soprano is coming here and saying that FDG is ENTj, when he obviously is not, amuses me. What an idiot.
EP
EJ
Se
Ni
Fi/Te
Ti/Fe
Ethical
Logical
Other
The fact that Elena the Italian Soprano is coming here and saying that FDG is ENTj, when he obviously is not, amuses me. What an idiot.
Yep. Fabio is not an SLE. I am an SLE.Originally Posted by Elena
But you haven't studied socionics have you?
Oh. And Joy is added to another LIE's hitlist.
discojoe is Italian, haha.Yes we Italians definitely know how to live life to the fullest
Thank you for your admiration of our ways!
I made the same mistake a few months ago. It went like this.
Hahahahahaha.
No, Fabio, this is for big grown up LIE women to discuss - you go back outside and play with your new football.
force my hand was so fat, when I tried to aid him in getting Jadae knocked down, he couldn't get on the bus! Ohhhhhhhhh!
I'm not Italian. I'm almost 100% British.
So you WERE being racist.
Safe. I knew your sense of humour was too good to be true.
There's nothing racist about disparaging comments about Italians.
Ezra, are you on speed or something?
And together the first initials spell JAK. LONG LIVE JAK!!! Anyone wanna join with an E or C, pls?
Shoo. You wouldn't look awesome on the front bumper of my jeep at all.
Wow. You've cracked the inevitable truth. You legend.
jadae is an idiot and a provocateur, but there's still no real reason to ban him. perhaps a temporary ban would be more suitable.
Niffweed is a useless piece of shit in society. His basic usage will be research in the anals of academia in which he will create worthless products and/or ideas because he has no basis in societal reality. This is no different than that of the parasitic thief known as Reuben, which is a being much like many others formulated in the academics of the shithole known as California.
DIGG THIS@!
Last edited by pokeball; 01-01-2008 at 01:03 AM. Reason: your mom
ok.
I want to shove it through my fucking heart.
Cheers tho!
yuck. it's like watching time loop infinitely.and so what! ok this might be the truth, but you get yourself banned acting like an arsehole here. just play other games with us man, like say typing methods
I think it is kind of late now but personally I don't find Jadae annoying or disturbing much at all. He kind of has this attitude of begging for trouble but so does many others here. I guess he is bad at controlling himself. Imho his comments seem often more funny than hostile. There are other posters around who I see as hostile and which some others see as funny. That's funny.
So basically we've established that Fabio is bullshitting to avoid an accurate diagnosis and his friend is EIE. Point for Beta?
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Pretty much.So basically we've established that Fabio is bullshitting to avoid an accurate diagnosis and his friend is EIE. Point for Beta?
Euk. That would be calledSo basically we've established that Fabio is bullshitting to avoid an accurate diagnosis and his friend is EIE. Point for Beta?at its worst
(besides, I'm certain my friend is my identical!)
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
If there is one person in this forum who does not have a Si PoLR, it's you FDG. (Okay, and heath.)
Well this is actually a very good point, I've become very good at taking care of my health over time.
Still, there's a Gulenko subtypes description of ENTj-Nis that mentions this trait, so I can't exclude that it's not as uncommon as it might be inferred from the theory.
Salawa: damn, I've known her for 3 years, how come you can know better in 16 posts of hers? Pleeease
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
IDK if I'm SLE she might be one too, but I mean, I know some EIE girls and they're kind of different from her...they even hang out in different social groups (with INFp, ESTp, ISTjs...at least by my typings)
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Just thought of something...
Is it just me or do a lot of female ExTx (and perhaps female IxTx?) types seem to not hang out with female as much as female ethical types? (This idea just occurred to me, still pondering.)
I think probably ExTx are the most "indipendent" types in terms of hanging out with others? Both males and females IME
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
You know FDG, I don't believe I've asked you this...
Why do you think LIE works better for you than Se dominance? Intertype relations aside.
In comparison to the Se-ESTps I know (if I'm an ESTp I'd be a Se subtype imho), I'm not good at asking people to do things and make them do for them (even very minor things); my anger is generally more "reactive" that is, I relate to the part of Se description that says "the subject wants to do all the decisions for himself in regard to everything", but I don't relate to the first part "the individual has no problem giving orders and organizing people etc etc"...generally when I do lead, it's by enthousiasm for my ideas more than by forcefulness.
Let me give you an example of what I mean from yesterday evening; I went out my my gf and some friends of her...they had to go back home early, and an ENTj friend of mine had organized a party and we were both invited and I had agreed with him to meet after midnight, and so I told her if she wanted to come (this 2 days ago). She said yea sure, after they go home we go there.
So yesterday night we go out and dine and then go to the city centre to celebrate the midnight; after an hour the friends have to go back home and they ask us if we can go back with them to have a tea. We go, but my gf and her friend start talking and she seems to have forgotten that we'd planned to go to the other party afterwards, so I start to get annoyed, but OTOH I think it's not really nice to tell people we should go like that, so instead of telling her I just become increasingly silent and speak less. At the end we went there when it was 2:30 and it was still okay, but I think a Se dominant wouldn't have had any trouble just telling her (and that's what she told me - she told me she had just forgotten about it at the moment, and I should have just told her and that's what she'd have done at my place).
This is just an example, it happens that people don't do what we had agreed to do and I am not good at going there and telling them "We have to do X" "We go there" as it's generally thought for Se types.
Also maybe this doesn't surface from my forum interactions, but I'm rather naive in terms of human relations; been told multiple times that I "trust people too easily" "give away information without much forethought", treat as friends people I've just known that maybe aren't really that good. ESTps are generally picture as being the opposite, no? Just asking. Their Fi PoLR is different from the one of ENTps (that are positivist, and so IME just like me tend to overtrust people). The upside is that I'm pretty good at making friends the people that tell me I overtrust are generally INTps, ISFjs, INFps, ISTjs (Ni and Se subtypes) - and those are, paradoxically, the same people I befriend easily with my "overtrusting" behavior, lol.
Generally looking at all my life I see it as very hard to consider myself a negativist from every sense of the word, even the most "beneficial" which is minimization of negative...I try hard to ignore anything negative and blind myself from things that might piss me for a long time and when it does surface, I don't minimize anything on the contrary I let it all out in a rush so that it's finished soon (this looks like IJ behavior somewhat).
One point towards a sensory type and against LIE is how I take very good care of my health, I think. Surely better than many sensory types I know, too; I don't even feel like I overemphasize it.
I'm really certain of being extraverted. Most of my friends have been introverted, with me initiating interaction (actually, I'm very extraverted by almost all standards, on the BIG 5 I get a score of 99) and all the ones I've been able to become close with are introverts except for a LIE and an IEE. So the sensory-logical positivist types ISTj and ISTp are IMHO a bit out of question.
I could go on for hours talking about myself
Last edited by FDG; 01-01-2008 at 01:52 PM.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
This post does make Gamma extrovert sound more likely than Beta extrovert.
This is how SEE's lead, btw.generally when I do lead, it's by enthousiasm for my ideas more than by forcefulness.
LIE leadership style generally has a less enthusiastic and more practical and proactive approach, though they can certainly be enthusiastic.
Just out of curiosity, were you more sober than your girlfriend? That could make a difference.
Also, in your interactions with others and your girlfriend, which of you is generally better about being punctual, and which is more likely to need to be reminded that it's time to go so you're not late?
Yeah well that wasn't meant as a post against my girlfriend - it should also be noted that the person she was speaking with was her best friend, whereas I was more friends with the guy that threw the party, so objectively speaking it was normal for her to be more into the conversation.
I thought it outlined how I think Se+Ti would have acted in a different way probably.
Definitely me. I'm very punctual to everything, more than most people I know - only my ISTj dad and an ISFj-Fi friend of mine are as punctual as me. I generally dislike making other people wait me, i think it's impolite, but I don't mind that much waiting, as long as it's within say, 20 minutes from what we've agreed on. However I'm more likely to forget about things like...turning in documentation for something school-related for example. I think that if everybody were punctual things would run much more smoothly and the world would be a better place, and going by this principle I have to be the first to apply it.Also, in your interactions with others and your girlfriend, which of you is generally better about being punctual, and which is more likely to need to be reminded that it's time to go so you're not late?
Still, in terms of punctuality I tend to have the same problem I outlined above. I don't like to pressure people telling them it's time to go; sometimes this has resulted in problems like, them missing a train even if I knew they should have gone earlier; in these cases I tend to change my attitude.
I know you don't like all of his ideas, but it's been noted by Smilingeyes that when an ENTJ actively pushes for a change in his environment (as opposed to people following him out of their will) he's becoming an ESTJ. I do find this theory to be true: whenever I actively push for a change I experience a "cortisol shot" in my body that makes me much less happy. That's one of the reasons I avoid it.
Generally speaking as I've gotten older I've become less and less likely to actively correct people towards a given direction and more aware of how that might not be useful in the bigger scheme of things, or how that doesn't make them any happier, or how I should become more tolerant and 10 minutes late don't change anything. If this change is for the better, only time will tell.
Last edited by FDG; 01-01-2008 at 03:08 PM.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Is that why she's an LIE?Euk. That would be called
(besides, I'm certain my friend is my identical!)
Salawa, something, just something, tells me that you and Joy need to both step back one in the Enneagram. She needs to go to 7, you need to go to 6.
I actually agree heavily with this. Fabio, on many occasions, you've talked about your health and basically how important it is to keep healthy. I swear you could be my personal trainer (and you have been on EIDB once before
Please quote this for me. I would be really interested to hear about it. Truly.
I think the point she's trying to make is that you're not backing up your point about her being your identical with anything more than gut instinct (and don't say this is related to your being an intuitive, because intuition has nothing to do with this).Salawa: damn, I've known her for 3 years, how come you can know better in 16 posts of hers? Pleeease
Pay heed to this, mate.You are the epitome of good-- even when you fake it, people believe it, in a language other than your native tongue. Come on!
I don't think she's an EIE. At least I see no firm evidence to confirm this at all, or, indeed, any other typing. All she's done for people to make this assumption is stick up for you in a verbal brawl.
To be honest, with the kind of assumptions that have been flying around recently, it makes me disgusted to be associated with the Ti whence it came.
Although I retain it as a possibility, I don't think you're an SLE. I don't think you exude enough Fe/Ti. The way you operate is on a Te/Fi-valuing basis. If you think something, you'll bring an idea forth backed up with hard evidence. Okay, your reasoning may not always be strong i.e. something like "you are not SLE because you do not do what this potential SLE does", but one can very easily see where you're coming from; you're logical. In conjunction with this, I see Se/Ni-valuing, which I don't even think you yourself doubt. The difference is, I think you're more likely Ni dual seeking than Se dual seeking. I think you're proficient enough in Se, and you don't need help with it.
Something you might want to check out, by the way, based on what Joy said in the next post is Ashton's thread at SocioniX about socionics questions. I posted a question in there about the difference between Gamma and Beta Se. His answer was good and is worth reading. If you can't be arsed reading it, in a nutshell, you can't look at Se on its own; you have to take it in conjunction with its fellow quadra values. So, Se is influenced by Fe in Beta, while in Gamma, it has a Te tinge to it. Likewise, if you're a Te type in Gamma, it would have a Se tinge to it.
Perhaps that is the case. But I know for a fact that I myself am trusting, so I'm not sure that it is related to Se+Ti ego block.Also maybe this doesn't surface from my forum interactions, but I'm rather naive in terms of human relations; been told multiple times that I "trust people too easily" "give away information without much forethought", treat as friends people I've just known that maybe aren't really that good. ESTps are generally picture as being the opposite, no?
I agree with this. Even through the internet, it's almost impossible not to see you as of the EP or EJ temperament. EP > EJ > IP > IJ.I'm really certain of being extraverted. Most of my friends have been introverted, with me initiating interaction (actually, I'm very extraverted by almost all standards, on the BIG 5 I get a score of 99) and all the ones I've been able to become close with are introverts except for a LIE and an IEE. So the sensory-logical positivist types ISTj and ISTp are IMHO a bit out of question.
Fabio, a few points (I've made them before, but anyway):
- the reason you changed your earlier typing of LIE to SLE (with a few days as SEE, indeed) was a Se description by Slava, with which you fully identified. During your SLE period, you described Se as dominant function very convincingly - and, in fact, you also spotted it in Ashton, in his "Gamma biography" - where he also described Se dominance.
- Let me point out that at the same time you realized that being a Gulenko Aggressor fitted you much better than being a Victim (as it does Ashton); and that is clear to anyone reading about your own stories in that area. It's not about "Gulenko" being right, that fits Se dominance nicely.
- Your original reason to dismiss SEE in favor of SLE was "not having a Ti PoLR". But then you prefer a type that has a Si PoLR? The problem is that in the past we've all seen PoLRs as some sort of disabilities, when they're more like "I can't be bothered with that" things.
- Your disregard for the above, in terms of being consistent with your previous arguments, can be described as Ti PoLR imo.
- Also, you seem to be arguing against Se dominance only by using arguments against SLE. I think your behavior with your gf is consistent with Se+Fi as opposed to Se+Ti.
- Finally -as a general remark, not only regarding you - I don't think it's a good idea, when typing, to cast in stone that this or that person are your identicals.
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Good point.
Yeah, but
Yes these are good points I agree, objective and fair. I must reflect on them and see how they apply to my behavior in the future.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
No, I thought she sounded Fe in her introduction thread as well.
And how would we go about that if (from what I understand) it can only be viewed by members?Something you might want to check out, by the way, based on what Joy said in the next post is Ashton's thread at SocioniX about socionics questions. I posted a question in there about the difference between Gamma and Beta Se. His answer was good and is worth reading. If you can't be arsed reading it
I would argue that it's more Se + Ti/Fi and Ni + Fe/Ti.in a nutshell, you can't look at Se on its own; you have to take it in conjunction with its fellow quadra values. So, Se is influenced by Fe in Beta, while in Gamma, it has a Te tinge to it. Likewise, if you're a Te type in Gamma, it would have a Se tinge to it.
At this point SEE seems like the most likely option (followed by SLE). Welcome back to Gamma!
Beautifully put, Expat.
*reaches for a microscope*Yeah, but
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
hm.. I don't think that fabio shies away from logical argument or feels uncomfortable arguing in this style (which is what is written about a Ti polr). What I see SEE doing is mimicking what they would get from an ILI.. factual accuracy. Like, argue about things being factual or not factual, then mocking someone about it. I don't see fabio doing that as much as using logical arguments and then mocking them. (the way that arguments start, anyway.. I could see being consistent with any Se type). To me jumping around with position in argument is more something i see with irrationals than with people who are Ti or Te. Just wanted to comment on that.
I'll remind everyone that Fabio admitted earlier in this thread to using obviously poor logic because he just didn't want to bother making a real argument but wanted to say something that sounded smart nonetheless. Sounds a lot like PoLR to me.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Flauting a PoLR like that?
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Well no thats not why I came here. But I know him in person so why not vouch?
I am curious why you are such the prima donna and vainly believe you are in any position to say otherwise?
That's a different discussion, and of course there's too little information (and we must be aware of individual and cultural differences, etc etc etc) -- but I agree that, so far, Elena's tone and style of argumentation is very similar to Kristiina's. What she's doing above is trying to re-order the supposed social roles of the interaction, essentially putting Joy down in a "who do you think you are" way.+
Which is not the kind of argumentation I've ever seen Fabio use, by the way.
And the mutual appreciation with Jadae, etc (again, it's too little).
So, from the little information seen so far, I agree that Elena seems more ENFj than ENTj.
Yet Fabio is convinced they're identicals -- well, that can mean many things. Sometimes you think that someone of your quadra is your identical (which would be a point for SLE for Fabio), sometimes not even that.
If Elena is EIE and Fabio is SEE, then we have a relation of benefit, with Fabio finding Elena generally cool, fun, non-threatening and attractive, and Elena finding Fabio admiringly strong but too inconstant, changing his mind far too much for her own peace of mind; and perhaps too "pushy in the pursuit of inconsistency".
Make of that what you will.
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