Stories, observations, and experiences with LIEs-ENTjs

[Khamelion]

I'd like to hear more about them. Give up the info!

[aestrivex]

they're a bunch of sociopaths with an uncanny hatred of the tamias canipes species of chipmunk, green paint, and wristwatches. they all also weigh exactly 3,209 pounds and have high-pitched voices which can only be described as "a mixture of nails, cheese, donuts, penicillin, and 2-methyl 4-ethyl, methly propynol."

[liveandletlive]

They're awesome- basically a SEE's wet dream They are NASTY at explaining ANYTHING in order to get u to understand things and never, ever make u feel dumb or degrade u in the process. but don't get me wrong, they do joke around a lot and poke fun but it's all good they're just trying to get their HA in haha. they know a lot of people and are usually very worldly- know a lot about everything. they tend to travel a lot because of this- they like other cultures a lot. they're very bouncy and energetic, always on the move and involved in a bjillion things at once... i really have no idea how they get it all done. they're very eloquent and all the ones i have known have been interested in law. they're have no shame, or are very foward, or lack tact... i still have yet to decide which one- maybe a combination of all 3. they're great with words- they're eloquent and use double entendres all the time. IMO and experiences they're also horny mo fos lol. they're pretty awesome... the only negative thing i would have to say is that for me personally, they kind of freak me out in that they can be a little too controlling for my taste... go be a control freak in your own life, but the second u try to control any aspect of my life i'll see u later. but that's just me, and my experiences- that may not be necessarily related to type.

[FDG]

An ESFp's wet dream? eheh dunno if it's just what happened to me but almost all the SEE's I've met considered me a real nerd that for some error of nature happened to be also good at sports but that doesn't have anything to do with them

On being controlling: I know what sounds that way. Many times I may ask my girlfriend "so what are you doing tonight" or "where are you going this afternoon". The reasons are two: 1)I may have something to propose! So I wanna know if she's already busy or I can ask her 2)I may be bored and seeing if she's going to do something cool, in that case I might want to tag along!

Although if I don't clarify that this is my objective, I totally see why it may come across as controlling. Ah yeah I also don't allow my girlfriends to smoke.

[Joy]

Wouldn't it a lot be easier to just not date smokers?

[FDG]

Wouldn't it a lot be easier to just not date smokers?

Yeah but most girls I know smoke just a bit. Like 1-2 cigs a day just to calm themselves down or something like this.

[Joy]

Anyways, SEE's usually say that I'm knowledgeable, interesting, and good at explaining things. I get the impression that they like me because I offer a type of stimulation that they usually don't get. I think it has as much to do with Ni as it does Te... when I talk about my philosophies on life they can't seem to get enough of it.

There's something irresistible about SEE/LIE relations... all of the power and energy of Se quadra extroversion plus positivism. They're also both Ni quadra strategists. Just imagine what they could do together, and how much fun they'd have in the process. (Though without someone around to take care of tactics I'm not sure how much of what they plan would actually get off the ground, and I could see them being too optimistic about deals or plans.)

the only negative thing i would have to say is that for me personally, they kind of freak me out in that they can be a little too controlling for my taste... go be a control freak in your own life, but the second u try to control any aspect of my life i'll see u later. but that's just me, and my experiences- that may not be necessarily related to type.

I think I know what you're talking about...

The reason I've never been in a serious relationship (or any romantic relationship, really) is because I'm too possessive of my mates, to be perfectly. SEE's are fun and bouncy and magnetic and flirty. They love going out an doing things and have a seemingly endless appetite for social interaction. I couldn't see myself being able to keep up with them long term when it comes to going out and doing stuff, such as going to parties or clubs or whatever. I do love that they drag me out to those (and other) places, but when I don't feel like it (I'm more of a homebody than any SEE I've known would want to be) they have to be able to call around and go out with friends and whatnot, and while I don't mind if my mate spends time with friends when I'm not there, I wouldn't want that to be something that happens all that frequently.

There's also the matter of their flirtiness. Things that an ILI wouldn't care about would bother me. SEE's seem to enjoy getting people to be attracted to or interested in them. It usually never goes anywhere, and they're loyal when they're in happy relationships (at least the ones I've known have been), but they're still one of the flirtiest types, and I simply cannot see myself with a flirt. (There are even introverts who are too flirty for my tastes. )

I'm pretty sure that's why I've never been close to a male SEE. I'd have a hard time not getting involved, and they seem extremely dangerous to be emotionally involved with. The closest I ever came to being involved with an SEE was a mutual crush I once had with a coworker. When he flat out asked me if I'd ever date him, I simply said, "No." He was sort of surprised and asked why, and I said, "I could never own you." He was like "wth" and walked away irritated. Of course, I was exaggerating for effect when I said "own", but it successfully got the idea across. He asked me similar questions on other occasions, and I told him that he was too much of a flirt for my tastes. He said he doesn't cheat, and I said, "I know." He said, "So why does it matter?" I think that conversation captures the essence of the reason I've never been with an SEE.

Another obstacle was that their attitudes on relationship status are different than mine. I need to know exactly what the status of a relationship is. SEE's have a casual attitude towards establishing a definition of what the relationship is. They tend to get far more involved with someone before wanting a commitment than I could handle. I need relationships to be well defined, leaving no room for questioning or doubts, before I'm willing to invest myself all that much emotionally, and I can't be left to wonder what's going on for any amount of time. I usually lose my patience after a couple of weeks or so. Indecisiveness or hesitation is seen as a sign of potential danger. If things are left undefined (or not clearly defined) for too long, I get spooked and decide that no matter how much I may be attracted to this person, and no matter how compatible we may be in many ways, we're better off just being friends because our different attitudes and perspectives on relationships would quickly drive me out of my mind. I'd feel hurt and insecure when the SEE didn't even do anything wrong. And if I could stay in spite of that, there would probably be a lot of fights. Yep, definitely better off being just friends.

Not that an SEE and LIE couldn't have an awesome relationship. I think there are differences to overcome, primarily due to rationality vs. irrationality, but I'm sure it could be done. If a SEE/LIE couple could get past that, I'll bet they'd be awesome together.

[Joy]

Sigh.

[Khamelion]

Sigh.

??

[Joy]

??

That was in response to FDG.

[redbaron]

I just realized that this woman I know is probably LIE. She lives down the street from me, has three kids and is pretty intense. She's friendly, but in a business-like way. She will usually say hello but seems focused on what she's doing. If she's with someone else and involved in a conversation, she either doesn't say hello at all or will give a nod and go back to what she was going. I've learned that you can't expect her to necessarily include you. (and that's okay with me) She's loud, aggressive and opinionated. I respect her actually, for speaking her mind on things. She never beats around the bush. She seems SUPER busy. "laid back" is about the LAST term I'd use to describe her. She's always running her kids here and there, as well as other people's kids. She reminds me of the saying "it takes a village" and SHE is that village. haha She's very involved in the school and knows EVERYone. Her pace of life is frantic, far too frantic for me. She leaves me behind in the dust and I'm happy about that. lol I get along well with her husband, although he is kinda flighty. I'm thinking INFj for him. They are both concerned with larger societal issues and tend to see much more of the big picture than I do. She takes everything very seriously. I like seeing her laugh because I worry that she's too serious and that the stress of that is going to catch up to her one day. She's rather fascinating actually because she's so different from me. What do you think--does she sound LIE?

[FDG]

I'd say she sounds more ESTj to me.

[redbaron]

I'd say she sounds more ESTj to me.

Oh yeah? Hmmm, could be. The reason I might doubt it is because she works pretty closely with an IEI at our church. They seem to get along fine. But I guess I don't know that for sure as I'm not privy to the ins and outs of their relationship.

[FDG]

Oh yeah? Hmmm, could be. The reason I might doubt it is because she works pretty closely with an IEI at our church. They seem to get along fine. But I guess I don't know that for sure as I'm not privy to the ins and outs of their relationship.

Ok, that is a good reason to think that she isn't an LSE, you're right. I was just trying to fit the image you conveyed with the image of the LIE females I know (3) and it didn't seem to match exactly, but part of it could be due to age differences or simply personality differences. Or maybe what I perceive as "laid back" could be your "high strung".

[redbaron]

Ok, that is a good reason to think that she isn't an LSE, you're right. I was just trying to fit the image you conveyed with the image of the LIE females I know (3) and it didn't seem to match exactly, but part of it could be due to age differences or simply personality differences. Or maybe what I perceive as "laid back" could be your "high strung".

When I read the descriptions, she does seem to fit the LIE more than the LSE but there are plenty of things in the LSE description that seem to match her so it's not an outlandish idea.

[DirectorAbbie]

I'd say she sounds more ESTj to me.

Hope not. I wouldn't want to end up that way. But when I work, that's what I look like.

Yesterday afternoon, I was in one of my moods: to clean. I got my INTj brother to get stuff out from under my dresser and move it so I could get stuff from behind it. He left, and my ISFp brother came in for some freebies. (I always give away miscelaneous items when I clean.) I put him to work picking up the paper stars and 'coins' (colored paper that I put through a hole punch) and putting them in their respective bowls. My ESTp brother asked through the door what we were doing. I said we were listening to the news. (The radio was on.) He wanted to listen, so I let him in and put him to work tearing up legos and straightening papers. He got tired of and left. After my ISFp brother finished stacking the stencils and magazine papers, I told him to go. I finished most of what was left, and my INTj brother wandered back in. So I had him get the vaccume cleaners and hold things while I vaccumed under them. My room (not counting the closet) was perfectly clean in 6 hours, with a quick break for dinner.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Sounds like an LSE yeah. Actually sounds a bit like my parents.

The only reason why she sees the big picture is she's lucky enough to marry her dual, most likely that is the reason. Because LSEs actually are very detail-focused, that's how they achieve their goals. NFs are more dream-like mysterious, and laidback/don't exert much effort just because we're so aware of how we're all dust in the end anyways.

[Ezra]

I think LIE makes enough sense. I'd like more detail though.

lol @ the thread title

[Ritella]

Just from the part about running her (and other peoples') kids around, I'd say LSE > LIE. I think that kind of thing would annoy an LIE and he'd be likely to space out and forget the kids somewhere.

[redbaron]

Just from the part about running her (and other peoples') kids around, I'd say LSE > LIE. I think that kind of thing would annoy an LIE and he'd be likely to space out and forget the kids somewhere.

Well I don't know that she's not annoyed by it. She sometimes does seem annoyed by all the stuff she has to do for the kids, but she does it anyway at a manic pace. I think she'd like more adult time. She's much better with adults. She loves babies but once they're out of that cute cuddly baby stage, she prefers much older children or adults that she can reason with. I think she has very little patience for kids in general.

[Blaze]

so i spent the weekend with my cousin, who's clearly an LIE. we shared a room at a hotel and got along pretty well. anyway, here's what i noticed about her:

• she's incredibly quick at picking up on what people say, what people do, what they mean
• quite initiating and leading, would start everybody moving in a direction
• dominated conversations, got people's attention, and kept their attention even when other people would try to cut in and say something
• very factual, not very theoretical
• congenial, smiling face

although at times i felt a little jealous of how she was able to command attention, i only felt that way momentarily. i didn't feel a constantly growing sense of competition like i would with another static. more often, i felt admiration for how she could get the stuff above going. i kind of followed in her wake, influencing things here and there. we talked about work, about family, about having babies, about books, about marriage.
we got along well for almost four days.

anyway, it occured to me that perhaps quasi is not as bad a relation as we sometimes think. like the LIE's here (i'm thinking of Expat and Azeroffs) i like to listen to what she (and they) have to say, since they say it so clearly. i admire their leadership - it seems to come so effortlessly to them. overall, i found her sort of refreshing, since i don't have any friends like that.

so, do you think i got her type right? also, post your experiences with LIE's. and, comment about quasi relations if you are ILE.

[Jonathan]

so i spent the weekend with my cousin, who's clearly an LIE. we shared a room at a hotel and got along pretty well. anyway, here's what i noticed about her:

• she's incredibly quick at picking up on what people say, what people do, what they mean
• quite initiating and leading, would start everybody moving in a direction
• dominated conversations, got people's attention, and kept their attention even when other people would try to cut in and say something
• very factual, not very theoretical
• congenial, smiling face

although at times i felt a little jealous of how she was able to command attention, i only felt that way momentarily. i didn't feel a constantly growing sense of competition like i would with another static. more often, i felt admiration for how she could get the stuff above going. i kind of followed in her wake, influencing things here and there. we talked about work, about family, about having babies, about books, about marriage.
we got along well for almost four days.

anyway, it occured to me that perhaps quasi is not as bad a relation as we sometimes think. like the LIE's here (i'm thinking of Expat and Azeroffs) i like to listen to what she (and they) have to say, since they say it so clearly. i admire their leadership - it seems to come so effortlessly to them. overall, i found her sort of refreshing, since i don't have any friends like that.

so, do you think i got her type right? also, post your experiences with LIE's. and, comment about quasi relations if you are ILE.

I think your bullet points are consistent with LIEs. However, "factual as opposed to theoretical" is kind of relative to the individual, although I understand it could be used by some as a kind of "code phrase" for Te vs. Ti. LIEs are probably the most "practical" of all NTs given the combination of their emphasis on external real-world happenings and on structure. But they may be interested in highly academic fields and very well-read in the theory involved in their discipline. In comparison to LSEs, they will probably usually seem more theoretical.

I also think that there's a very wide difference among LIEs regarding some of the "bossiness" you mentioned. I notice some are like that, and others much less so...there's quite a range.

People tend to think of quasi-identity as a very conflicting relation because of the opposing quadras, but actually most descriptions from Russian sources don't necessary make it out to be so bad at all. Many LIEs are quite open to opposing ideas and will prefer that people mention them directly.

People in a quasi-identity relation tend to be interested in similar things, so this can help in terms of being casual friends. But if they have to work closely together, they'll find that they tend to have opposite approaches and assumptions regarding how to start.

[Azeroffs]

I don't think I've ever disliked an ILE. My mom is ILE, and we get along great. I've never been really close to an ILE though. I was raised by my Dad, and I only see my mom every once in a while because she lives out of state.

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

I was raised by my Dad, and I only see my mom every once in a while because she lives out of state.

OK NOW.
YOU .SERIOUSLY. NEED.A HUG.

[Azeroffs]

OK NOW.
YOU .SERIOUSLY. NEED.A HUG.

lol, thanks, but it's really not a big deal. I talk to my mom on the phone every few weeks, and we're closer than ever. Even when I was young and we rarely saw each other I didn't think of it as an issue. Sometimes I wonder if I had a terrible childhood and didn't even realize.

[Beautiful sky]

I think your bullet points are consistent with LIEs. However, "factual as opposed to theoretical" is kind of relative to the individual, although I understand it could be used by some as a kind of "code phrase" for Te vs. Ti. LIEs are probably the most "practical" of all NTs given the combination of their emphasis on external real-world happenings and on structure. But they may be interested in highly academic fields and very well-read in the theory involved in their discipline. In comparison to LSEs, they will probably usually seem more theoretical.

I also think that there's a very wide difference among LIEs regarding some of the "bossiness" you mentioned. I notice some are like that, and others much less so...there's quite a range.

People tend to think of quasi-identity as a very conflicting relation because of the opposing quadras, but actually most descriptions from Russian sources don't necessary make it out to be so bad at all. Many LIEs are quite open to opposing ideas and will prefer that people mention them directly.

People in a quasi-identity relation tend to be interested in similar things, so this can help in terms of being casual friends. But if they have to work closely together, they'll find that they tend to have opposite approaches and assumptions regarding how to start.

They use the Te (objective information) gathered from from all kinds of sources, books, magazines, etc to use Ni and make predictions about where things are headed to get an idea of where to invest. They can take many ideas and reduce them to make them efficiently workable.

@ Blaze,

yes, honey, you got her type dead on right. I have an LIE friend (not Azeroff ) who I have been friends with for a while now and he is exactly as you described, a pleasant and open extravert who loves to do things and is very active and gregarious.

[FDG]

I generally get along well with most ILEs I know. Actually, I might go as far as saying that we can cooperate quite well whenever we're executing a task toghether (static + dynamic?). I've only had some disagreements with those that think of themselves as being intellectually superior as a standard attitude, but, it was mostly a battle of egos...(so I can't say it was completely their fault). My observations tell me that the worst quasi-identities are between negativist and extraverted types (so, ENFj-ENFp and ESTj-ESTp).

I wouldn't describe myself as "not theorethical", though. It's mostly a mask, given that generally almost no-one is interested in abstract theories, thus I've "learnt" not to share them automatically. Plus, people are scared by someone which reads books on theorethical physics and/or psychology etc. etc., and I don't want to scare anyone.

[Jonathan]

They use the Te (objective information) gathered from from all kinds of sources, books, magazines

I don't agree that that's the definition of Te. I think on this forum Te tends to get defined that way. It really doesn't make sense. Raw information that you gather can't really be a judging function. And Te can't be something completely unrelated to what Ti is. So this Ti=logic and Te=facts stuff just doesn't cut it.

Also, if Te were as you described it, then LIEs and LSEs wouldn't even begin to appear as Ej temperament types. They would be on the Internet most of the time gathering facts and probably wouldn't have a very strong sense of direction as they'd just want to gather more and more facts.

[Suz]

I don't agree that that's the definition of Te. I think on this forum Te tends to get defined that way. It really doesn't make sense. Raw information that you gather can't really be a judging function. And Te can't be something completely unrelated to what Ti is. So this Ti=logic and Te=facts stuff just doesn't cut it.

Also, if Te were as you described it, then LIEs and LSEs wouldn't even begin to appear as Ej temperament types. They would be on the Internet most of the time gathering facts and probably wouldn't have a very strong sense of direction as they'd just want to gather more and more facts.

That's sort of how my Te-HA works actually...

[Beautiful sky]

I don't agree that that's the definition of Te. I think on this forum Te tends to get defined that way. It really doesn't make sense. Raw information that you gather can't really be a judging function. And Te can't be something completely unrelated to what Ti is. So this Ti=logic and Te=facts stuff just doesn't cut it.

Also, if Te were as you described it, then LIEs and LSEs wouldn't even begin to appear as Ej temperament types. They would be on the Internet most of the time gathering facts and probably wouldn't have a very strong sense of direction as they'd just want to gather more and more facts.

They are reading facts from all kinds of sources, of course mostly what they are interested in; better yet, they are observing processes one with more Ni slent (with the goal of utilizing ideas for investments, the other with Si, pleasantness of sensations derived from objects). Te is a function, according to Carl Jung, of being oriented towards the objective world, thus being interested in things that are going on outside of themselves, gathering information/facts is just one way to do that, being that that's what they are programed to do. They also focus so much on work and working that given extremes they can become tyranical and really not care about emotions of others, as their extreme ego emphasis on Te (work and production/efficiency) supresses Fi (the care and feelings of other individuals).

Here's a good source:

http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

Why? How do you define Te?

[Blaze]

I think your bullet points are consistent with LIEs. However, "factual as opposed to theoretical" is kind of relative to the individual, although I understand it could be used by some as a kind of "code phrase" for Te vs. Ti. LIEs are probably the most "practical" of all NTs given the combination of their emphasis on external real-world happenings and on structure. But they may be interested in highly academic fields and very well-read in the theory involved in their discipline. In comparison to LSEs, they will probably usually seem more theoretical.

I also think that there's a very wide difference among LIEs regarding some of the "bossiness" you mentioned. I notice some are like that, and others much less so...there's quite a range.

People tend to think of quasi-identity as a very conflicting relation because of the opposing quadras, but actually most descriptions from Russian sources don't necessary make it out to be so bad at all. Many LIEs are quite open to opposing ideas and will prefer that people mention them directly.

People in a quasi-identity relation tend to be interested in similar things, so this can help in terms of being casual friends. But if they have to work closely together, they'll find that they tend to have opposite approaches and assumptions regarding how to start.

actually yes i would agree somewhat about the theoretical part. LIE's want to be able to use and apply theories. LSE's, i notice, can be somewhat fascinated by theories, but not as interested in applying them. and LIE is open to opposing ideas: my cousin kept saying how she noticed that my thinking is out of the box and how useful this is in a business venture.

i agree that ILE and LIE would have different ideas on how to start and what to do. when i gave up trying to lead and just followed her it went a lot more easy. sometimes we ILE's get tied to our ideas and want to push them forward, but people aren't always ready for them. if we are willing to follow the lead of an LIE, i think we could find that they would support our ideas at the right time and given the right circumstances. anyway, it felt easier to me to just allow her to lead rather than trying to take it myself. and, more natural.

I don't think I've ever disliked an ILE. My mom is ILE, and we get along great. I've never been really close to an ILE though. I was raised by my Dad, and I only see my mom every once in a while because she lives out of state.

agree with this too. it's not a close relation. maybe that's why it's refreshing and crisp. i found it an easy social relation,though. once i worked for an LIE and i found it easy to do so.

I wouldn't describe myself as "not theorethical", though. It's mostly a mask, given that generally almost no-one is interested in abstract theories, thus I've "learnt" not to share them automatically. Plus, people are scared by someone which reads books on theorethical physics and/or psychology etc. etc., and I don't want to scare anyone.

yes....this is where LIE has their finger on the group pulse more than ILE. people are afraid of that. why?

[FDG]

yes....this is where LIE has their finger on the group pulse more than ILE. people are afraid of that. why?

because...they're stupid

[Nowisthetime]

anyway, it occured to me that perhaps quasi is not as bad a relation as we sometimes think.

Have you had longer relationships with your quasi? To me it sounded that you're describing qualities about the LIE that you like but not the type relationship itself.

[Azeroffs]

Actually, I forgot about my highschool best friend. I typed him as LII before, but I'm almost sure he's ILE. We had an interesting relationship in that we had a lot of the same interests, but we were always a bit distant. He was kind of a dick, and I didn't have much of a problem with it, but it got on my nerves over the years. The weird thing was that other people really thought he was a dick, and I'd defend him because I didn't think it was as bad as other people made it out to be. In my eyes it was just a subtle insensitivity. Not enough to confront him on, but enough to make me not want to be around him after a while.

edit:
What pissed me off most was when it was me him and one of our other friends (IEI and EIE). When it was 3 of us or all 4 of us, they would make some insulting remark, and then I'd start to argue with them usually saying that what they were saying wasn't even true, but then he (ILE) would just make some witty remark that didn't even address the issue and they'd all just laugh... God that was infuriating.

[Blaze]

Have you had longer relationships with your quasi? To me it sounded that you're describing qualities about the LIE that you like but not the type relationship itself.

the relation seemed non competitive and non close, sort of pleasantly superficial.

[Exodus]

• she's incredibly quick at picking up on what people say, what people do, what they mean
• quite initiating and leading, would start everybody moving in a direction
• dominated conversations, got people's attention, and kept their attention even when other people would try to cut in and say something
• very factual, not very theoretical
• congenial, smiling face

If she's good at getting people's attention, maybe she's an leading type? Most of this just points to extroversion and strong .