ILE-ENTp weaknesses

[Exodus]

Sorry, but this is just the kind of thing that makes an ENTp run away screaming.

[Lotus]

ENTPs and those who are observant of ENTPs, please list their weaknesses/vulnerabilities.

This will help me and others help you ENTPS do what the best you can because we really care about you. For instance my weakness is that I don't know how to flirt, but ENTPs before you twist that, list your weaknesses..be accurate because I care about you.

wtf?

Wow. I sat here for like, 3 minutes trying to come up with a list. But then I got nothing.
Not trying to say I have no weaknesses... but it's harder than it seems to just list them.
I think I need quiet contemplation time.

[Mediator Kam]

ILE have no weak.

[Blaze]

we da man lol

[Creepy-Cyclops]

There good fun, and fun to be around, but you always get that feeling you can never be sure that they mean what they say, and also that its just a matter of time before they get bored with you and move on to someone or something else.

Its the sort of thing that stops them developing real friends, and I don't understand that.

[Lotus]

There good fun, and fun to be around, but you always get that feeling you can never be sure that they mean what they say, and also that its just a matter of time before they get bored with you and move on to someone or something else.

Its the sort of thing that stops them developing real friends, and I don't understand that.

Most just have more fun floating around and talking to different people at once.
I'm in a floaty mood right now. I think I'm going to give beta a visit.

Even though they all clearly dislike me.

[Exodus]

ILE have no weak.

Pretty sure they believe that.

[Jimbean]

Okay, it is very very simple. Fi POLR means that Fi takes the least precedence in one's thinking. ENTp's do not readily evaluate the morals of what they are doing. I have seen ENTp's do things that are immoral and not even realize it, such as convincing other people to do something upon jumping to some half-assed conclusion.

[Sabo]

I don't think ENTps ignore morals. Rather, the ENTps I've known tend to develop their internal ethical systems to which they compare their actions. So while ENTps generally try to act ethical by their own standards, they don't think about the fact that their moral system is different than that of society, which causes them to unwittingly act in ways that others see as unethical. This is different than just ignoring ethics altogether.

The flip side of this ethical independence is that because ENTps tend to develop their own internal moral codes and remain oblivious, indifferent, more even contemptuous towards the ethical code of society at large, they are more easily able to modify their ethical code to justify unethical behavior in their own eyes ... to some extent, that is.

[Creepy-pokeball]

I don't think ENTps ignore morals. Rather, the ENTps I've known tend to develop their internal ethical systems to which they compare their actions. So while ENTps generally try to act ethical by their own standards, they don't think about the fact that their moral system is different than that of society, which causes them to unwittingly act in ways that others see as unethical. This is different than just ignoring ethics altogether.

The flip side of this ethical independence is that because ENTps tend to develop their own internal moral codes and remain oblivious, indifferent, more even contemptuous towards the ethical code of society at large, they are more easily able to modify their ethical code to justify unethical behavior in their own eyes ... to some extent, that is.

I would say that that is a fair composition of many, but not all, alpha NTs. Or as my really close INTj friend would say to me, "I cant be bothered with such crap." haha

[Lotus]

So while ENTps generally try to act ethical by their own standards, they don't think about the fact that their moral system is different than that of society

I disagree.
Everyone knows their society's version of right and wrong, however, it is one's own choice to follow the moral code.
Maybe some types are more likely to follow these ethical standards because they never question whether it makes sense to them.

Ethical standards are just opinions.
If something seems right to me, and I can back it up with logic, then it is right.

[Sabo]

Ok, it's not that they don't know that what they're doing doesn't fit in with society's ethical standards. It's that they really don't care. I agree 100% with what you're saying about society's moral standards and logically questioning the supposed dichotomy between "right" and "wrong" -- but I think ENTps sometimes don't see how other people will react to this independence of thought and can end up in sticky situations because of it.

Mind you, I'm not saying this ethical independence is bad. Personally, I think if everyone could logically conclude the right thing to do on a situational basis, the world would be a lot better off.

Maybe this is just me + the other ENTps I have known. It seems type-related though.

[lefty]

I don't think ENTps ignore morals. Rather, the ENTps I've known tend to develop their internal ethical systems to which they compare their actions. So while ENTps generally try to act ethical by their own standards, they don't think about the fact that their moral system is different than that of society, which causes them to unwittingly act in ways that others see as unethical. This is different than just ignoring ethics altogether.

The flip side of this ethical independence is that because ENTps tend to develop their own internal moral codes and remain oblivious, indifferent, more even contemptuous towards the ethical code of society at large, they are more easily able to modify their ethical code to justify unethical behavior in their own eyes ... to some extent, that is.

This rings of Eliot Spitzer the Gov. of NY who tried to impliment drivers licenses for illegal immigrants in ny. He's just ahead of his time and I think really a supreme alpha male. He's a total genius.

[Wittmont]

This rings of Eliot Spitzer the Gov. of NY who tried to impliment drivers licenses for illegal immigrants in ny. He's just ahead of his time and I think really a supreme alpha male. He's a total genius.

Spitzer just destroyed his career in a sex scandal. Typical Shadow disaster.

[Steve]

I think ISTj-Ti is more likely, considering the linearity of his academic and early law career. (And by VI/video too.) Also apparently a long-time friend of Jim Cramer who I think is ESTp-Ti.

I totally agree on Jim Cramer - ESTp-Ti

[lefty]

Yeah I know this, an ENTP once blindly lied to me just to prove he's right and then I printed out an email of him stating otherwise. His face then turned red and then I forced him to fix the problem he created and I was right next to him physically, hurting him making him do more and more things.

well i'm sure i speak for everyone when i say that you're a nutjob and we all feel sorry for that entp and had we been their would have kicked your ass in his honor.

[lefty]

Okay, it is very very simple. Fi POLR means that Fi takes the least precedence in one's thinking. ENTp's do not readily evaluate the morals of what they are doing. I have seen ENTp's do things that are immoral and not even realize it, such as convincing other people to do something upon jumping to some half-assed conclusion.

Disagreed....
"Necessity is the mother of invention."

[Jimbean]

Okay, it is very very simple. Fi POLR means that Fi takes the least precedence in one's thinking. ENTp's do not readily evaluate the morals of what they are doing. I have seen ENTp's do things that are immoral and not even realize it, such as convincing other people to do something upon jumping to some half-assed conclusion.

Out of curiosity, are there any ILE's that do not have this as a weakness?

[Suomea]

Out of curiosity, are there any ILE's that do not have this as a weakness?

Don't necessarily view this as a weakness in myself. I constantly evaluate the morals of the things I do to the point where it makes me very sad and somewhat depresses me. Like I'll constantly tell people rediculously immoral ways of getting out of situations... but I'll never let them go through with it, and I'll pseudo get angry at anyone who takes my somewhat sarcastic 'ridiculous' advice at face value.

[Jimbean]

I find myself having to reassure that I understand what people say quite often. As if it were not first described in a straight forward logical way, I would have to ask for clarification.

[wasp]

pretty sure they're immortal.

[The Reality Denialist]

I have a dental cavity. It can kill you.

And four infected wisdom teeth.

[Syynth]

I have a dental cavity. It can kill you.

And four infected wisdom teeth.

I brushed my teeth after reading this.

[The Reality Denialist]

I have total mastery over sensory domain. For example: I fell down two times today while walking. I have amazingly good reflexes though that appear from nowhere in crisis without that it would have been at least 4 and possibly ended up in much worse condition.

While I look (at least) intellectually confident person, I have huge problems establishing it IRL. OTOH I'm so scattered that I don't give out lot of confidence in maintenance (which is true).

Connecting to people. That's a freaking challenge. It's not a two way street it's one way. While many may consider me nice, entertaining and pleasant it's still one way.

The front can be very deceiving. People don't see it at first the second time they are totally baffled.

[Rebelondeck]

ILEs have difficulty producing a product even though they usually know what needs to be done and how to generally do it, and may have produced the initial ideas; when it comes to actual implementation, things frequently go off the rails. They're so distractible but often blame others or unforeseen circumstances (certainly not themselves) for their distractions, and then try to get others to do the leg work that they should have been doing all along. The organizations that they run are somewhat like ships without rudders so the people on the oars have to really pull together.


a.k.a. I/O

[Soupman]

ILEs have difficulty producing a product even though they usually know what needs to be done and how to generally do it, and may have produced the initial ideas; when it comes to actual implementation, things frequently go off the rails. They're so distractible but often blame others or unforeseen circumstances (certainly not themselves) for their distractions, and then try to get others to do the leg work that they should have been doing all along. The organizations that they run are somewhat like ships without rudders so the people on the oars have to really pull together.


a.k.a. I/O

sounds like someone incompetent, I don't se that impairment being type related

[Rebelondeck]

sounds like someone incompetent, I don't se that impairment being type related

I don't look upon these limitations in processing as impairments that prevent people from being productive or doing things; humankind is far more resilient than that and workarounds are usually found. However, all people have to keep in check certain aspects of themselves; otherwise, things will go off the rails. I'm socially awkward in an LII-ish sort of way but my job forces me to meet with countless numbers of people on a daily basis; if I hid in my office, like is my natural tendency, my career would be over. I have seen many examples where types have succumbed to their type-limitations not having found their workarounds; and, indeed, all types do need to compensate albeit differently - the primary key to a solution is to first acknowledge the limitation.

a.k.a. I/O

[The Reality Denialist]

The legwork part is largely Fi PoLR combined with Si.When logic rules then making relational connections is largely seen as unethical procedure. At least to me it is. Playing favorites is really disgusting. Universally applied logical high horse. Atmosphere and such is kind of important, though which is Fe part.

So many times heard things like: That's great improvement.
Second time: Wow.
Third time: Do something about it, or I will.

[squark]

Rube Goldberg machines.

[The Reality Denialist]

Rube Goldberg machines.

yeah.
I have thought out several systems in my head. Sometimes when I start the required expertise goes beyond my skills so it is easy to drop...

This guy was successful version of ILE (although he married ESI)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spede_Pasanen

Well not among critics (ILIs)

[Exodus]

Rube Goldberg machines.

An ILE (in my opinion) Tim Berners-Lee is responsible for what is now arguably the biggest Rube Goldberg machine on the planet, the Web.

[The Reality Denialist]

Well once someone in authority position offered their help. I lashed out very intensely because I saw it as really unfair regarding rest of the world and turned it down immediately.

I don't actually know how to turn this around. At least I'm not corrupt like some valuers.

[Rebelondeck]

............I lashed out very intensely because I saw it as really unfair regarding rest of the world............

I've found that the N-types seem to focus a lot on unfairness but the aspect that kills a lot of relationships and careers is how one reacts to it. It's the preachers against the unfairness that seem to lose over the ones that take advantage of it. Many IXE are shunned as too idealistic for a world that demands pragmatic adherence to party lines. At a retirement luncheon, the guest of honour said: "To be successful around here, you have to be blind; if one is not blind, you have to act blind; and if you act blind long enough, you become blind." I think the retiree was a N-type but a practical one because he survived.......

a.k.a. I/O

[Adam Strange]

I've found that the N-types seem to focus a lot on unfairness but the aspect that kills a lot of relationships and careers is how one reacts to it. It's the preachers against the unfairness that seem to lose over the ones that take advantage of it. Many IXE are shunned as too idealistic for a world that demands pragmatic adherence to party lines. At a retirement luncheon, the guest of honour said: "To be successful around here, you have to be blind; if one is not blind, you have to act blind; and if you act blind long enough, you become blind." I think the retiree was a N-type but a practical one because he survived.......

a.k.a. I/O

Sounds like a great place to work.....not.

[Rebelondeck]

Sounds like a great place to work.....not.

I noted that when one works in government and government-funded institutions, selective blindness to unfairness is absolutely necessary for ones survival. Most civil servants have an added complication to their work; high-level politics from elected officials trickles down to the lowest level; and this is why these institutions become so inefficient.

a.k.a. I/O

[Adam Strange]

I noted that when one works in government and government-funded institutions, selective blindness to unfairness is absolutely necessary for ones survival. Most civil servants have an added complication to their work; high-level politics from elected officials trickles down to the lowest level; and this is why these institutions become so inefficient.

a.k.a. I/O

I can't say I admire a guy who waits for the last day to give a big FU to his workplace, civil servant or not.

The situation that you describe is exactly why I have never worked in government.

[Chae]

My ILE cp6 professor for media change gets caught up in finding opportunities to criticize and distrust a lot, spotting Ti inaccuracies (which is superb!) but not seeing the brighter side. He can make jokes that nobody finds funny, which ruins the popularity he could otherwise have because he's competent and upbeat. He's only semi-good at bonding with people, his seminar has low attendance rates. Because of his `paranoid´ character, people judge him and are missing out on some seriously good content. He has problems keeping up with his appearance and health, he is dramatic and hectic.

[wasp]

it's hard to pinpoint weaknesses in ILEs because Ne (spotting what's missing) and Ti (detached analysis) grant them the ability to analyze themselves objectively and nail down any and all perceived weaknesses in themselves. they usually employ "smoke and mirrors" tactics to conceal their weaknesses. if concealing them doesn't work, they find a way to spin their weaknesses into strengths, ergo "owning" them.

prone to debilitating depression if they lack proper socialization + creative and intellectual outlets
boredom is equivalent to death. where others may seek out help from friends and family in trying times, ILEs rarely, if ever, do. they will isolate themselves, inadvertently burning bridges along the way, and their capacity for self-care will drop down to zero. cue mental and physical illnesses.

weakness in volitional sensing & excessive pride resulting in unrealized dreams and goals
they're disinclined from using force to get what they want so, if they find something (or someone) they want, they have to utilize indirect methods (tricks, hints, and deceit, albeit not necessarily malicious in nature) and patiently wait it out, but, if that doesn't work, they have one of two options:
a. reluctantly use force, which throws them into an uncomfortable state of agitation, and beat themselves up for it afterwards
b. sit back and do nothing, feel "cheated" because it's not in their nature to selflessly give w/o any return, feel agitated and resentful

emotionally manipulative, occasionally abusive
when they're in an unhealthy state, they will cry, guilt-trip, blackmail, all that jazz (see: 5 y/o throwing a temper tantrum)

social pariahs
they want nothing more than to be liked and admired by others, but their strong sense of self (autonomy) & deeply ingrained set of principles may obstruct their ability to do so effectively. imagine living in a country where everyone except you can speak the native language. no one understands you, and, on top of that, there are strict laws in place prohibiting everything that you are and aspire to be. so, it's like that... but worse.


that'll do for now. they're beautiful, mysterious wells of endless potential and bullshit. they're some of my favorite people, but, without a consistent source of inspiration and the right type of caring, their devil-may-care attitude will whittle down until eventually they're shells of their former selves.

[Jimbean]

ENTp's have a tendency to mis-value thoughts and objects that occur in reality. They may either overestimate or underestimate an obstacle when achieving whatever goal.

[Gilly]

When is it going to click that you are Beta ST?