what type is Joy?

[maze]

=)

[maze]

=)

[Joy]

I'm just more polite.

Honestly.... the reason I haven't made much of an arguement is BECAUSE this subject of whether I'm an ESTj is not interesting to me... I'm sorry.

[maze]

=)

[discojoe]

maizemedley, despite your irrationality, you've bought my approval with complements. Well done.

[Creepy-]

I'm just more polite.

Honestly.... the reason I haven't made much of an arguement is BECAUSE this subject of whether I'm an ESTj is not interesting to me... I'm sorry.

No you aren't "just a more polite ENTP." I honestly do not see an ENTp holding back his dissection of an irrational argument, for the sake of politeness. Seriously, Disco Joe was doing what comes naturally to him. He was being true to his ENTp self. He saw an argument that was illogical and he salivated and got right to attacking it's validity. There's nothing impolite about that Joy. He wasn't being at allllll rude or impolite he was being true to his functions.

The fact that you say, "you were just being more polite"... What ENTp would hold back on getting right into demonstrating my "illogical arguments" for the sake of politeness????? For the sake of boredom..YES, but POLITENESS??? No.

EDIT>> I do believe you were being polite, BUT it wasn't because you were holding back a tirrade against my illogical argument like the one Disco Jo unleashed on me.

EDIT>>You were holding back unleashing an emotionally charged outburst based on the fact that I'm trying to read between the lines to get at what you are thinking without presenting enough FACTS/EVIDENCE.

EDIT>>Yours and Disco Jo's reaction to my posts is different in very fundamental ways. I think Disco Jo moreso than you actually enjoyed seeing and pointing out the irrationality of my posts. It mentally stimulated him to refute illogical connections he was perceiving. You on the otherhand, were simply growing IMPATIENT with me, you wanted to be presented with the facts and I wasn't doing so. Two very different functions, I tell ya'.

[maze]

=)

[diamond]

I agree with maizemedley - Joy is not entp. I think she is enfp. I've always thought so.

Joy is super active on the forum and engages in relationships here. She posts about relationships. She's quick to pick up on relational dynamics. Read: relationships not feelings. She connects really well with the other enfp's. She's always in the middle of the mix. This is classic enfp - leading the charge, speaking for the group, lending a sympathetic ear.

The other entp's on this forum are not so socially prominent as Joy.

Entp's usually aren't in the middle, they are more on the fringe. Entp's would hardly ever speak for the group. They would speak for the alternative point of view. Entp's aren't so strong with relationships - it's a good thing for us that there's another person in relationships because the other person tends to carry more of the weight. Entp's usually do things like butt in unceremoniously, insult people, say stuff without thinking. Entp's are on a head trip thinking about theories.

FWIW, from a group dynamics point of view.

[Joy]

I agree with maizemedley - Joy is not entp. I think she is enfp. I've always thought so.

Joy is super active on the forum and engages in relationships here. She posts about relationships. She's quick to pick up on relational dynamics. Read: relationships not feelings. She connects really well with the other enfp's. She's always in the middle of the mix. This is classic enfp - leading the charge, speaking for the group, lending a sympathetic ear.

The other entp's on this forum are not so socially prominent as Joy.

Entp's usually aren't in the middle, they are more on the fringe. Entp's would hardly ever speak for the group. They would speak for the alternative point of view. Entp's aren't so strong with relationships - it's a good thing for us that there's another person in relationships because the other person tends to carry more of the weight. Entp's usually do things like butt in unceremoniously, insult people, say stuff without thinking. Entp's are on a head trip thinking about theories.

FWIW, from a group dynamics point of view.

Traitor! Not because you have stated that I'm not an ENTp but becuase you have said such terrible things about ENTps. Honestly it's a bit offensive. Don't take the appearance of insecure ENTps and assume that's what all of us are like. Also, I do generally offer up alternative points of views. That is actually how I am able to understand group dynamics so well. I am in the middle of the social mix not because that's just how I am, but because I'm on the middle of a friggin divorce! The last time I was in the middle of things was when my first marriage was falling apart. BTW... the fact that I married someone I did not truly want to spend the rest of my life with TWICE due to other factors outside of the relationship does not point to ENFp... I married my current husband so he could have insurance for crying out loud!

Not to worry, I will also disect the ENFp description to put your mind at ease. Gah, I've been working on a post for The Corn Lady for like half an hour... you posted and it was pointed out and your statements about ENTps prompted me to write a pre-post post.

[diamond]

Hmmmm methinks the lady doth protest too much. :wink:

Seriously Joy, you seem awfully defensive. What have you got against being an enfp? Why do you not consider this possibilty? Others are saying you are not dominent while I do believe you obviously are . . . and the only other option for Ne dominence is enfp.

I also happen to like enfp's a lot . . . they are quite zany and fun.

Why are you offended? I don't understand this. What I say about entp's are already known as classic entp behaviors. And I can say these things because I am an entp and BTW not quite so insecure. It's just entp nature, it has nothing to do with insecurity.

[Catholic Schoolboy]

Joy is INTp. Why can't I vote that way?

[Joy]

Okay... I will take the descriptions of both ENTp and ESTj and ENFp and break them into sentences and answer each with true or false... I have not done so yet because I have not put any weight into your allegation. I have not argued that your "just knowing" that I am not an ENTp is wrong because I very often "just know" things myslef. This also seems to be a rather emotional subject for you because you seem to think I am similar to someone you love. (I sorta decided to just let you believe what you want to believe, but now that you're saying that the way discojoe acts is representative of ENTps... I no longer see that as on option.) I, on the other hand, am in the midst of a personal crisis and have not been taking care of myself well and am a lot busier than I look. I am certainly nowhere near top form.

Also, if discojoe is so logical and brilliant, WHY are you not putting any weight on his observations of me? He says I'm an ENTp as well. I talk to him quite a bit, prolly an average of a couple of hours a night (which, incidentally, is why I say not to take what you see here as a representation of who he is or what an ENTp is... not much him of who he is really shines through here at all... he posts here mainly to amuse himself and not much of what he says is actual "communication"). He prolly knows me at least as well as any forum member (except maybe ishy who I've been talking to for over a year) and there are forum members who I've talked to more than him overall. He knows me better then those people because we are identicals and ENTps sorta talk in code... there are few others from other types who could understand what we say unless they know us extremely well, and even those people are only getting bits and pieces or a vague idea.

First of all... have you even LOOKED at my test results? My strongest functions are and my weakest are ... Okay, now on to the descriptions... I'll break this down in a simple way... I'll copy and paste the text in here and then change the color based on what is true of me and what is not.

TRUE is in red, FALSE is in blue, and notes I add are in orange.

ENTp

1. Two birds in the bush [he often chooses this option instead of one in his hand]. He is a genius at finding new opportunities and possibilities. What he has completed always seems to him less important compared to the dawning perspectives which are irresistible an inexhaustible. Scientists of this type tend to procrastinate with the publishing of the results of their research, thinking that the greatest discoveries are still ahead. He lives for the future; meanwhile being not acknowledged does not intimidate him. He chooses to do what is interesting rather than what is lucrative. (life is ALL about what is interesting!)
2. Recharge. He needs to feel emotional enthusiasm and ardor, and thus needs permanent sensory and emotional "recharge". He is unable to supply it himself, so he depends a lot on his surrounding. If nobody feeds him with impressions and positive emotions (nobody can do it as well as his dual The Mediator) – he mopes about life, loses ability to work and taste for life. To compensate for the absence of his dual he begins to mix with a lot of friends, becomes active in social projects, starts up clubs or scientific schools (Sigmund Freud, a representative of this type, invented the concept of sublimation to explain this fact).
3. A leader. He is a good organizer because he remarks potential possibilities in people and situations. If he is to wield power, he needs justification for it: why he must take that position, e.g. a critical situation that nobody else can deal with, assignment from the top. When he takes power, he begins to analyze the needs of his subordinates, tries to provide them with everything and only then makes the necessary demands on them.
4. A servant. His dependence on the emotional ambiance of others produces an effect of extreme compliance in minor and routine things. Having freed himself thus from having to pay attention to such unpleasant things, he switches for his favorite activity – figuring out the essence of things and phenomena. He does not differentiate people into “us” and “them”, tries to be equally polite to everybody. I'm like this when I can be... lately I have not had the luxury.
5. Undifferentiated feeling. He believes that all people in their essence are kind and love one another. Therefore he looks funny enough when the situation requires initiative in expressing feelings – they are not his line at all. You have no idea
6. Danger. Critical situations pep him up as much as good others’ emotions. The more emotions and panic there is around him, the more active and assertive he becomes. It is impossible to intimidate him – an attempt to do so produces just the opposite outcome. He willingly takes responsibility in critical situations; however, in peaceful and quiet conditions he starts to doubt his right to occupy a responsible position, gets frustrated by the competition and leaves. TRUE TRUE TRUE TRUE TRUE!!!
7. Liberty of communication. He likes familiarity in communication, however, does not show initiative in this, but awaits it from others.

ENTps tend to be unbiased, non-judgmental people, but very thought driven and intense while speaking. It is very common for an ENTp to often pause while speaking, appearing as though he or she is contemplating a response. If an ENTp ever begins speaking loudly, while waving his or her hands excitedly towards anyone, there is a very good chance that he or she likes that person and may want to get to know him or her. However, most people may not understand this unique ENTp social que, and instead might consider this a little odd and showboatish. The ENTp could also be sporadic in approaching people they have just met or getting to know. This occurs since ENTps have an exceptionally hard time displaying positive emotions towards others, and may not always know the best way to approach someone they do not feel they can readily relate to. Most tend to only be able to form relationships with like-minded people who can understand their logic or who can sympathize with them in some way.

ENTps can have a very difficult time making friends; most ENTps have a tendency to be a tad self-absorbed, and can unintentionally appear standoffish or reserved to people. Some of them may not have very many friends or a few close friends. Because of this, they may sometimes give off the impression that they do not like anyone at all. This is really not true. ENTps love people and yearn to seek closeness to others, but they normally do not have the developed social skills to allow them to do so. Because of this, ENTps need to receive positive emotions more than any other personality type, and often use their intuitive logic to concoct clever social schemes to gain required social attention. Most ENTps tend to not marry until their 30s, if at all. Define "marry"

ENTps are fiercely independent and strong-willed as children and as adults; many parents can testify to the difficulties in raising them. They are rebels, constantly challenging the norm and seeking out alternative means of action. When young, they could be restless in school and considered defiant and problematic, and if not that, they could be flagged with various learning abilities such as ADD, Aspergers, or even considered autistic. Because of this, ENTps could form a false inferiority complex. But in reality, ENTps possess a rare divergent learning ability that has not been favored well by many systems of schooling, the ability to link concepts asymmetrically to other concepts using objects and systems that are similar in concept, yet totally different. In this aspect, ENTps have been gifted with a form of intelligence like no other. Though few appreciate or see value in this fact.

Even as adults, ENTps can have little understanding of the limits of public, personal, and private space, and can irritate others with the way they habitually manage common everyday matters. They can have limited ability to comprehend the amount of time to complete task, and can be generally irresponsible or late on occasion. They can also be very messy, and have a hard time taking care of themselves. They can become so distracted with every day matters, that they lose track of their health. An ENTp may appear to be in a hurry when he or she is not.

ENTps do not readily follow social norms. They do not like to have their independence threatened by unnecessary rules, and they can appear expedient and out-of-place in a society that values any various forms of unnecessary subjugation. While ENTps may have a healthy respect for rules when they are necessary as a guideline or are necessary and good for the well being of people, they do not readily tolerate intentional subjugation to any type of rule or method that they consider to be out-dated or harmful to the well-being of individuals. ENTps tend to look down on people who do so, considering them to be childish and lacking of confidence.

ENTps are the intuitive protectors of society. They do not want to see people being exploited out of ignorance or to see the unmerciful destruction of individuals for the gain of a chosen few. ENTps want everyone to be strong, independent, and able to stand on their own. They can use their intuitive understanding of situations and their ability to see the internal workings beyond smoke and mirrors, and to warn of danger. However, they can at times see danger where none really exist, which often causes people to not take them seriously. But, ENTps really want the best for others, even in a world that does not really understand them or really cares to for that matter.

ENTps thrive not in any society that places high value upon any form of systematic consistency, and could be perceived with suspecion. Because of their accute absentmindedness, an ENTp may unintentionally forget what he or she has done throughout the day or mistakingly leave tools and other items where he or she has worked. This forgetting can happen anywhere from a matter of seconds to minutes. When confronted, an ENTp may deny he or she has done something, even a few moments later and when there are witnesses to testify against this fact; generally, most people lack the empathy and insight to understand how anyone can humanly manage under such inconsistent and odd behaviour. However, those who have developed a good understanding of ENTps can testify to their faulty memory and forgive and accept them. An ENTp is best left to live in a society that values their greater strengths over their lower flaws.

Another cause of strife could result by the way in which an ENTp naturally realizes and relays information. If an ENTp fails to absorb all necessary hints and clues about his or her surroundings during a signifigantly potential or important event, his or her mind could unintentionally distort that information, causing the ENTp to perceive and relay information to others that may not have a complete bearing on reality. However, this is totally natural for an ENTp; their minds can play connect the dots. If a dot is missing, their subconscious fills it for them without telling. However, they tend to often be right more than they are wrong. Regardless of this, the casual observer may discern their own inborn divergent thinking abilities as blatently dishonest and unreliable reasoning. Although, societies that are more accepting of ENTps tend to be more amazed with the ability than uncertain and condemning. But, this view is meerly a matter of perception; honesty and dishonesty has nothing to do with a person's personality type. As people, ENTps can be just as honest or dishonest as any other person of any other type, just so long as they avoid misunderstanding societies upon which can do them any harm.

ENTps are actually pretty positive people, who enjoy life greatly. Unless circumstances prove it necessary, they rarely find reason to think negatively about people. They seek to accept and to understand people for who they are inside. They do not like to condemn people for their personhood, and they can often be sought out by others for matter of practical solutions to common every day problems. People typically have respect for the intuitive understanding of ENTps towards them and appreciate their loyalty in personal matters. It is not like an ENTp to betray a friend in need.

Allright, I'm gonna post this before conttinuing with the ESTj and ENFp type descriptions. I may run out of time because I work today, and I have school tonight, so if I don't post those descriptions right away it may take a little while. Hehe, when I DO post... get ready to see lotsa blue.

[diamond]

I am in the middle of the social mix not because that's just how I am, but because I'm on the middle of a friggin divorce! The last time I was in the middle of things was when my first marriage was falling apart. BTW... the fact that I married someone I did not truly want to spend the rest of my life with TWICE due to other factors outside of the relationship does not point to ENFp... I married my current husband so he could have insurance for crying out loud!

I feel you, divorce is a tough thing and I hear you questioning your decisions. And there are plenty of people of all types who are divorced. Are you saying that the choices you've made about your marriages are due to the fact that you are an entp? You probably made the choices you made for a lot of different reasons, not just the reasons you list on a public forum. And I bet a lot of them had nothing to do with being this type or that type.

Hopefully socionics can give some insight into who we are and why we make the choices we make. I don't think it's a panacea, though.

[diamond]

have not done so yet because I have not put any weight into your allegation. I have not argued that your "just knowing" that I am not an ENTp is wrong because I very often "just know" things myslef. This also seems to be a rather emotional subject for you because you seem to think I am similar to someone you love.

Allegation? That's a bit strong not to mention inaccurate. You did post a topic asking for feedback, didn't you?

Just knowing? I didn't say that anywhere.

Emotional? Where do you see that in my post?

Someone I love? Where is that?

Whatever . . .

[Joy]

Hmmmm methinks the lady doth protest too much. :wink:

Seriously Joy, you seem awfully defensive. What have you got against being an enfp? Why do you not consider this possibilty? Others are saying you are not dominent while I do believe you obviously are . . . and the only other option for Ne dominence is enfp.

I also happen to like enfp's a lot . . . they are quite zany and fun.

Why are you offended? I don't understand this. What I say about entp's are already known as classic entp behaviors. And I can say these things because I am an entp and BTW not quite so insecure. It's just entp nature, it has nothing to do with insecurity.

I thought I was an ENFp and disregarded it because while I do display bahaviors similar to that of an ENFp, they are FAR too inconsistent to be my type. Honestly, if I could pick a different type (I wouldn't, but let's say I HAD to), I would go with ENFp. I SO WISH I could express my emotions toward others that easily! Where is NeonMonk??? He, one of 3 trusted confidants (all xNFps), will tell you that it is not possible for me to be an F type. Ishy, the person who I have known the longest and who I consider to be one of my best friends (and no, I'm not just talking about ebuddies), says that she thinks there's about a 5% chance that I am an F type, 10% tops.

So.... the F types who know me well say there is no way I am an F type and the ENTps say I am an ENTp...

Sycophant! I am honored! I have very, very seldom seen you say that another person could be your type! You generally say, "There is no way that s/he is an INTp...." and I say, "Pretty god, you don't get to decide who you share a type with!" However... I've stated in the past and I will do so again... the reason I have a hard time with INTps is because they SO remind me of me when I am depressed... keep that in mind...

[Creepy-]

gjklfshgkjs

[Joy]

have not done so yet because I have not put any weight into your allegation. I have not argued that your "just knowing" that I am not an ENTp is wrong because I very often "just know" things myslef. This also seems to be a rather emotional subject for you because you seem to think I am similar to someone you love.

Allegation? That's a bit strong not to mention inaccurate. You did post a topic asking for feedback, didn't you?

Just knowing? I didn't say that anywhere.

Emotional? Where do you see that in my post?

Someone I love? Where is that?

Whatever . . .

Oops.... sorry Blaze... those things were directed to maizemedley

[Joy]

PS- I HAVE NOT FOUND THIS WORTH MENTIONING TO THIS POINT BUT...

I'm 90% certain that my first husband was an ESTj...

[Creepy-]

ghkjfd

[Joy]

Okay, if I wasn't an ENTp, I'd say that the next possible choices are

1) ENTj or ENFp
2) INTj or INTp

[Creepy-]

jhkljhkldf

[Joy]

Okay, if I wasn't an ENTp, I'd say that the next possible choices are

1) ENTj or ENFp
2) INTj or INTp

Ok... you're not an INTj!

EXACTLY, I'm not any of those things!

[diamond]

I spose if people here know you IRL it's a diagnostic advantage.

Why post a topic then?

[Creepy-]

treuiot4u5ih

[Kim]

There is much in the the ENTp description that fits we very well, too (being an ENFp and pretty sure of it). Well, the things related to , obviously (duh). I do see much of Joy in me when I was her age and pretty insecure, but the big difference is that I don't see the as a creative function in combination with , based on very early conversations I have had with Joy here (about the potential in people, everyone can be successful, etc.). Granted I'm pretty generous in my use of even compared to other ENFps (just call me whore, I can totally take it), I still don't see it in Joy (as a creative function). But Joy, ENFps can throw themselves into all kinds of questionable relationships, trust me! Sometimes we can't help ourselves, sometimes we love the adventure and sometimes we play caretaker.

Also, while I can be assertive when I have to stand my ground, I would have never been this aggressive in a debate.

If I wanted to go by the letters, yeah, perhaps (F-type). I can't really go by the descriptions when I don't know people in real life. But this would be my ENFp input.

That's why I doubt the ENFp (although I have assumed it in the past).

[diamond]

Points well taken, Kim.

Aggressive, though? Or defensive?

[Kim]

Thanks Blaze (good to "see" you, by the way!).

Aggressively defensive perhaps? I can get defensive, but I always make sure I don't alienate people and I'm good at not alienating people (unless I really don't like them and honestly don't care what they think of me):
Thus I rarely get aggressive (unless it's in a save environment, but that's a different story) and I tend to think that is really an ENFp thing.

Joy does not always seem to care how she comes across and is not afraid of alienating people. That would rule out ENFp for me (and rest assured, I'm a bit envious).

Joy, are you sure you are an extrovert? Just playing with ideas here...

[Joy]

ENFp
1. An ardent enthusiast. He is a highly spiritual, artistic individual. The Psychologist quickly resolves any personal problems, always relying upon his talent for immediate improvisation instead of preparing the work in advance. He loves situations when new and exciting undertakings come up, when it is possible to demonstrate his own and others’ talents; when one can still expect the most unusual development of events.
2. A Don Juan. He gauges various virtues and talents in the people he meets and cannot hold back from reporting his observations to them with great enthusiasm. Often other people mistake his dramatic display of emotions for his real feelings, which earns him the reputation of a Don Juan. In fact, he is quite conservative in his feelings, attached to a close circle of his friends, whose opinions hold great weight for him and totally determine his mood, behavior, and knowledge. If he really is a playboy, he does not hide it.
3. Sensitive. His speech is often romantic, his smiles are enticing, but very often that’s as far as it goes. His motto is ‘emotional power over all and sexual freedom from all’.
4. "Modest". As a rule, he is not ambitious, because he can enjoy the circle of his friends and the anticipation of something interesting. Unlike The Politician, who likes to be an obvious ruler of the situation, he prefers to be its covert ruler. And his influence is directed first of all towards making other people reveal their skills and talents.
5. A scientist. He is sensitive about how others evaluate his mental skills. Often he strives to get a degree in higher learning, achieve scientific recognition and awards: this gives him the opportunity to work with a clear conscience (without having to doubt his qualifications). He is touchy when other people criticize ideas that he holds dear, or deny him and his friends’ talents. This is why he prefers the company of those who share his beliefs. I'm just not sure what to say about this.... Achievements are important, but not so others see them, more so for personal satisfaction. I do not care who believes what I do and I don't need a piece of paper to tell me I am skilled.
6. A person of mood. His mood determines everything: plans for the future, self-estimation, and ideas about the world. Ambitious plans can change to disappointment and sadness; but interesting news, praise, or an unexpected interesting opportunity immediately lifts his spirits. Boredom can even make him ill. I have DEFINITE highs and lows... I am all about taking two steps forward, one step back. When I'm in the low part of the cycle my plans do not change, I merely take the time I need off knowing that I'll get back to them
7. Altruistic. He is ready to help other people in solving their personal problems. The greatest pleasure for him is to find a way out from the situation that others consider hopeless. He is capable of demonstrating friendliness and benevolence to all. However, he saves his real efforts for about whom he is serious, and in this case he does much more than people ever expect from him and more than he himself promises. I dunno about that last part.

Overall I say I am not an ENFp because I am too inconsistent in my ENFp-like qualities, and when I do express them they are different than the typical ENFp.

ESTj
1. Rapid, clear, sober mind. Are you kidding me??? My mind is the loudest place I know of. So friggin noisy ALL the time! He knows how to act in an intelligent and logical way. His bearing is sporty, facial traits are sharp and coarse, as if carved from granite, and by this all – covert nervousness, high internal emotionality. His motto sounds: force, integrity and a sense of duty. He is a born scout – he collects information using all available channels until he achieves an absolutely clear picture that provides him with indemnity to act for sure.
2. "All I do is done well". One more quotation: "There is a gift which is always characteristic of great baseball players and teams. This is onslaught. This is the capability to run more rapidly then one is required to, to move more quickly than one is required to, to be more impertinent than one is required to” (Ph.Brooks). Initiative is habitual to him; he is decisive, likes to be the center of attention. He defends his ideas with guts and fervor. In front of his superiors he is not shy, even becomes aggressive. He knows that business only then goes perfectly if the necessary tempo is set from the very beginning. He does not tolerate procrastination, is an ardent struggler for quality and thoroughness in all work. A good army officer. AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH AHAHHAHAHA
Like Thomas Edison, a representative of this type is capable of working 19.5 hours a day. Only in the up part of the cycle!
3. "Rage is a mighty god of the strong". He tends to take other people out of the condition of complacency. He does not speak much about what is good, considers it self-evident. With his grumbling emotions he strives to extinguish emotions of others. He believes that redundant emotions tire people, and this is absolutely true if applied to his dual (The Humanist). During a conversation he pressures his interlocutor, even tries to intimidate him, but if people do not fear him, he becomes courteous and polite. Fury is his line of defense in a situation of emergency in which he feels otherwise helpless. The aim of his fury is to mobilize his partner, and when this is achieved, he calms down. No... I generally alter the dynamics of a situation subtly... only a very clever and intuitive person can tell what I am doing. I affect change for the better but do not take credit for it... after all, I didn't really do anything besides notice something that was already there and lead others to be aware of it as well... they do the rest. Many ENTps do this... some use their powers for good, some for evil.
4. Belief in playing fair. He considers obedience to rules to be a strength trait. OMFG did they have to use the O word?!*wrinkles nose* He does not tolerate slyness and deviousness, hates cheaters and dodgy folks. "Political maneuvers may produce a quick effect, but a truly lasting and tangible results can be reached only through hard work" (Kim Philby). It's only wrong if someone is getting hurt. Intelligent people play the system, but not in a manner which harms others. I don't work for money, money works for me. He likes order. Having bought a new thing, he will for sure read the manual and only then will switch it on. The famous traveler Roald Amundsen managed to avoid extreme situations all his life. "Victory awaits those who keep things orderly”, he used to say, “and this is what we call good fortune". A believer in honest labour. "If everything seems to be easy, this is an infallible evidence that the worker is far from being skilled and that the work is above his competence" (Leonardo Da Vinci). AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH AHAHHAHAHA
5. "A reserved force characteristic for military officers". He looks well built, has a straight bearing even if he has never served in the army. I COULD NEVER FRIGGIN BE IN THE MILITARY OR BE WITH ANYONE WHO IS!!! He dresses well and elegantly, but does not like to dress to demonstratively. He wears his clothes very long, and it always looks permanently fresh, as if unaffected by time. He never buys uncomfortable shoes, and makes others dress very neatly. An aesthete.

[Joy]

Kim, I have been intoverted lately, but that's just because I have been with my contrary too long.

[Creepy-]

jhljl5rh

[CuriousSoul]

Edited...

[Hugo]

CURIOUS SOUL

[Cone]

Holy crap, the dead has risen!

[indigoroom]

OMG CS! WB!

[Rocky]

You know what, there would be nothing more I'd like to do now than prove that Joy is some kind of sensor (LSE, ect..) because of the way she is always rejecting it without much thought, and because she has said things in the past about there being nothing positive about being a sensor.... but I can't. I dont see it. I still think she sounds like some sort of Ne dominant type (I haven't really decided if she is more IEE or ILE though...). I know you are saying that you can't express in words what males you think she is an LSE, but maybe if you can give something people will take it a little more seriously. I'm not ready to throw the possibilty out the window yet, but I don't think so...

[Catholic Schoolboy]

Joy INTp? Psst. I don't think so.

Oh, and Curious Soul, I love you but I don't know you.

[Cone]

I bet Joy went ESFp when she went on prescription drugs.

[Catholic Schoolboy]

I bet Joy went ESFp when she went on prescription drugs.

I want to feed Cone drugs. Pitty I'm sure he would object.

[Angel von Himmel]

Get it out of your system, people.

http://socion.info/cgi-bin/html/resu...587137867.html

ENTp - we have similar test result patterns ...

http://socion.info/cgi-bin/html/resu...808834930.html
http://socion.info/cgi-bin/html/resu...512324632.html

[discojoe]

Let me put it this way, children.

If I were a woman, I'd be Joy.