Which means? You disagree with the broad point I was making, you think it's a matter of subjective impression, or you think there are exceptions?Originally Posted by Logos
Which means? You disagree with the broad point I was making, you think it's a matter of subjective impression, or you think there are exceptions?
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Merely that not all LIEs so easily admit when they are wrong, and they can, in fact, be quite reluctant in admitting as much when their credibility is on the line. It does not change the larger point. It is merely a point of commentary.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
What Expat said is not wrong, but I don't believe Grek0s description (the one I quoted at least) or Cyclops opening post is off the mark.
Some LIEs do try to use Fe as a tool, and that's what happened in the above example I gave. His Fe was terrible, imo, but because he polished some things enough, it worked on other people, at times. He tries very hard at 'appearing successful', and how he presents himself to other people - some have said he's charismatic.I don't recall now precise examples of ENTj, butTony Blair, an ENTj in my opinion, sort of "learned" to use Fe as a sort of tool, but his "call me Tony" and permenent-grin personality was perceived by many true Fe ego types as fake, and he sort of went into "help me improve my image" mode with his underlings (such as Alastair Campbell) whenever he felt that his efforts were unsuccessful.
It's kind of disturbing though the more you get closer to him and realize the things he does.
He's said "life is sales", and he will use whatever tactic to try to sell himself or whatever he's doing - such as exploiting morality or trying to woo the opposite sex. Although he'd never ever label it as such - save for when he's trying to get you to see his way and as a 'joke'.
Everything is a marketing tool, and a status builder.
He even writes notes, poorly written in chicken scratch because he wouldn't take the Si time to write neatly, and they are supposed to impress other people.
What he doesn't realize is that while the initial glam of his tactics work, anything long term or where people get to know him suffers. Yet, he just deals with every failure that comes his way with a sense of optimism, it's really quite strange.
The problem is that he has no concern or even awareness of how his actions actually affect other people, and he's not aware of the time it takes to do the real, actual work of things - so he can suck people dry if they aren't privy to what he does. (and the problem, for him, is that he doesn't seem to think or realize that people eventually stop buying his act. And when those people do find out, he tries to avoid them as much as possible)
This of course is the example of a relatively unhealthy LIE, who really needs his dual. But LIEs can be that way.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
For what it's worth, the LIE I'm talking about here is
LIE-Ni, E3, So/sp/sx
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
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