Interesting, I'll try to spot them.Originally Posted by Expat
Are you sure there is Si there? Does he really care about "aesthetically pleasing", or does he just want "appropriate"?Originally Posted by Expat
Interesting, I'll try to spot them.Originally Posted by Expat
Are you sure there is Si there? Does he really care about "aesthetically pleasing", or does he just want "appropriate"?Originally Posted by Expat
LSI
Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa
If the boundaries you are talking about are , then the issue is that you occasionally see a great white shark where dominants may see a more harmless species, and react to the threat with a little less panic.
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
Good question. It is more about Ti-Fe "appropriate", but the reason why he notices it (and I don't) it's because of higher focus on Si.Originally Posted by PotatoSpirit
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
Me too. I do think I have different levels of conflict with INxps as I do with ENxjs. Not sure if I value that?Originally Posted by PotatoSpirit
Description on the 7th is true for me. I get very annoyed with ISFps for example, if their factual accuracy is totally off or otherwise they are misusing Te from my perspective.
Interestingly, I chose Ni and Se as the most likely to be my hidden agenda. I also chose Ti and Fi, somewhat because I see my "ideas" as intertwined with my "personal behaviour".
How might you interpret this?
Five/Tanzhe
I hadn't noticed this interesting thread until today, but just a few comments:
* It seems that there are more choices than "stick to your strong functions" vs. "use your weak ones (e.g., HA) pathetically." For example, someone with Ti HA might also express it by studying topics are that Ti-oriented and developing an ability to follow Ti-oriented discussions competently. That would be a positive use of HA-Ti.
* The main way I've seen "bad" Ti HA expressed in people I've met in person is by relying on a deep serious voice, authoritative tone, or putting on an academic-like emotion to get people to accept one's position. Nevertheless, I've never met an IxFp in person who was really very obstinate; most are pretty willing to concede their position if given the right reasons to do so.
Like many people, you are totally missing the point.Originally Posted by Jonathan
Those descriptions are not of the types' normal and healthy behavior, even when using the hidden agenda. They are of - as stated several times - when you are being pathetic using it.
Someone who fits the descriptions of their types's HA as stated here is someone annoying, arrogant, pathetic, an ass, generally disliked by most people - except their duals, identicals and perhaps look-alikes.
As I have already said, if you don't identify with those descriptions for your type (although I'd expect everyone to behave like that on occasion), then congratulations, you are not being pathetic and an ass.
So you're essentially arguing against a point that I never made, Jonathan.
@Five: that just confirms that you're ISXj; but I think you're not really seeing those descriptions for what they are meant to represent.
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
Elaborating a bit --
SLEs: more likely to do that by pranks, being loud, physically playful in an intimidating way (even if not their intention).Originally Posted by Expat
ILEs: more likely to do that that by being a smart-ass, making fun of others, behaving in a "weird supposed to be cool" way, but not physically
SEI: more likely to do that by claiming "I have much more life experience on that than you"Originally Posted by Expat
IEI: more likely to do that by claiming "I have given this matter much more thought than you; I have reflected on this many hours"
EIE: more likely to focus on "famous" or "important" people they know ie name-dropping, as if to show they belong to some "elite"; positions and status are emphasized rather than actual wealth - example I witnessed: "I met Emperor Hirohito - President Reagan introduced me to him, you know". Mentioning that you move around "successful people".Originally Posted by Expat
LIE: more likely to focus on actual material possessions, successful investments, business ventures, and particularly "clever" purchases ie "I bought this very good car for a ridiculously small amount of money". If mentioning other people, perhaps just the spouse.
I have to think more about the others.
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
ESI: more likely to be the case in taking action to "settle" a personal relationship one way or the other, or to "solve" a problem regarding work, money, or the like.Originally Posted by Expat
LSI: more likely to be the case in taking action to "destroying" an "enemy" or "making amends" with someone who, you fear, may otherwise "hate" you
I use quotes because I am talking about the intention -- the result is often the precise opposite
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
OK - I agree, thank you@Five: that just confirms that you're ISXj; but I think you're not really seeing those descriptions for what they are meant to represent.
Five/Tanzhe
Wow, Joy does that all the time. LOL.Originally Posted by Salawa
EDIT: And by "all the time" I mean "sometimes".
I relate to both of those. How do you know one is more likely than the other?Originally Posted by Expat
Well, partly based on (some) personal observations; and partly based on what makes most sense theoretically - ie the influence of the corresponding quadra values (base function and dual-seeking).Originally Posted by discojoe
Of course I may be getting too specific.
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
These aren't necessarily pathetic behavior per se, more just my own experiences with each hidden agenda...
- they ask you a lot of questions so you feel "special"- "How did your test go?"
- take pride in their relations with others
- always doing social networking some way- involved in clubs, etc.
- often ask you "are you mad at me?" as if to gauge your emotions
- tends to do nice things for others, considerate
- very interested in other people's personal lives, as if to gain a deeper understanding on some life matters that they can generalize
- somewhat "slow" in the fact that it's hard for them to pick up new concepts or ideas
- very curious, ask a lot of questions about their surroundings
- often make impulsive decisions, known for having crazy lives for putting themselves in ridiculous situations
- hard to open up to other people, give you a challenge
- despite the above point, if you really need them they are there for you
- not so big on the whole manners thing, not the most considerate of others
- try to be more creative than they actually are- especially in their surroundings, tastes, etc.
- concerned about their own health and the health of others
- often remind you to eat a good meal, rest, etc.
- have little things they do as if to deter to bad health, whether related to detering bad health or not (ex. and EII i know drinks purple vitamin water everyday, even though there's a bunch of sugar in them)
- IME, gets freaked out by needles and graphic surgery shows
- very concerned with their own appearance- vain; they know there appearance is often not cohesive or complimenting
- eyes light up when they talk about money or expensive things- splurges occasionally on expensive handbags (usually they have a logo of the designer on them as if to advertise that they spent a lot of money on them... in general, they're label whores)
- can be cheap
- often have deep-held beliefs about things, don't care whether you agree with them or not
thoughts???
ESFp-Fi sub
6w7 sx/so/sp
i can definitely relate with some of this. normally, i'll ask questions in order to seem "human" and not so focused on myself. i take pride in my relations with others because i believe (wrongly) that some people might see my relative moral emptiness. i'm not so much involved in social networking except when it comes to keeping up with my closest friends and seducing women (or to give the impression that i'm good at it which is sort of a half truth). the "are you mad at me" is dead on. i service others only if i feel like i'll gain something from it.Originally Posted by liveandletlive
IEI - the nasty kind...
the handbags thing was just an example that i thought mite clarify what i was trying to say- obviously for males this most likely won't apply.Originally Posted by Salawa
ESFp-Fi sub
6w7 sx/so/sp
i thought u agreed with the physical-appearance-consciousness? IME that has been the most telling sign of someone with a HA. The EIE and LIE guys i know are all gym rats and the girls although not as bad as them are still self-conscious to a degree.Originally Posted by Salawa
ESFp-Fi sub
6w7 sx/so/sp
I tend to be vain, yeah, even if your first point is not exactly coherent: if I know my appearance is not cohesive, then it's less likely that I'm vain, right?- very concerned with their own appearance- vain; they know there appearance is often not cohesive or complimenting
- eyes light up when they talk about money or expensive things- splurges occasionally on expensive handbags (usually they have a logo of the designer on them as if to advertise that they spent a lot of money on them... in general, they're label whores)
- can be cheap
By the way, I think going to the gym and-or working out isn't necessarily related to this. Many EJs' have a lot of energy, and the busier adult lifestyle is likely to give them less time to expend it in sports, so they might revert to the most efficient usage of their time in order to keep physical fitness.
Designer clothing: this seems to be more awareness-related than type-related. Personally, I love shiny, tacky, colorful things but I abhor designer clothing. However, I've seen the opposite happen in other Ni-EJs, so I cannot confirm or disagree with this.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
It's taken from Ice T - Money, Power, Women - and placed there purposefully to make people think that I'm trying to appear badass. So, you fell right into my trap
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Not 100% sure I'm an EII or LII but that definitely describes me!Originally Posted by liveandletlive
Trap? I wanted you to comment on it, no more no less.
You're still trying to make yourself look cool.It's taken from Ice T - Money, Power, Women - and placed there purposefully to make people think that I'm trying to appear badass. So, you fell right into my trap Razz
If you weren't, you'd have not tried to spin it so "someone fell" into "your trap".
Maybe you are more concerned with trying to make yourself look good than you realize.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Obviously I want to look cool. Why would I want to deny that?
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
yep. i can relate.Originally Posted by mustachio
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
Wow. That's so much like me. Actually, I feel that the first point relates more to leading Fi.Originally Posted by liveandletlive
I'd like to add "intelligent" to this, particularly when they relate intelligence to power or prestige, or social status, etc.Originally Posted by Expat
I have known a few people with HA who are quite pedantic and drop bits of "fascinating information" all the time. It amazes me when it works on people who are unaware or enamored by such things, but apparently it works. (Particularly when they are blatantly pointing out how they are better or superior to other people)
I have seen more than one XIE put so much spin on everything they say to disparately portray this image, when in fact they would seem much more "intellectually successful" if they just stopped talking about it all the time.
So yes,
To the point of insecurity, but they actually think they are putting on a rooster walk - top cock.-very concerned with their own appearance- vain;
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
These seem to be good observations and pretty life-like. I'm not sure if they're individually accurate or not. It's interesting that the two behaviors that really sound like things I do are "often ask you 'are you mad at me?' as if to gauge your emotions" and "freaked out by needles and graphic surgery shows." I suspect that's just because you can't really type people based on HA behaviors, rather than that I'm really ETp or INj.Originally Posted by liveandletlive
Overall, this list may possibly reflect more behaviors that characterize uncertainty or lack of confidence in a given function, rather than necessarily being only the activation (HA) function.
I fully understand that the initial point of this thread was to highlight dysfunctional uses of the 6th function, as opposed to "normal" uses. In my post, I was simply reacting to comments like this one...Originally Posted by Expat
...which seemed to imply that the "solution" is to use the 6th function less. If you don't mean that, then we simply agree...I'm not arguing...simply stressing that there's no need to suppress the function; it's a matter of using it correctly. I think we're in agreement on that.Originally Posted by Expat
And, by the way, I don't mean to belittle what's an essential truth in the statement that focus on id rather than super-id would make one more attractive to people of the conflicting quadra. It seems though, at least theoretically, that in look-alike ("business"), relations, a feeling of "commonality" in the use of the 6th function may lead to a certain sense of bonding. Furthermore, it seems to me that people who are particularly competent in their super-id block, especially in their suggestive function, tend to have a sort of "super human" quality that can draw people towards them.
“I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
Do I really do this gang? Honestly? Just wondering.unshakeable and stubborn defense of ideas and beliefs against all opposition, with unwillingness to even discuss the possibility of their not being correct.
Thanks. I think implied put them there, but on her own pages.
@everyone
Please note that such behavior is visible only when you are over-focusing on your HA. But, when you do, and go over the top, I think that's how it's going to be perceived by that function's "professionals".
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
I relate to the Ne one.
"Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."