Intro and self-analysis (long post + pictures)

[Expat]

Again, you ignore function use for MBTI stuff and VI. Socionics is about what functions people use. He uses Ne and Fi. He doesn't like Se. How could an INFp not like Se?

Yes, and not only that.

Which topic did tereg choose to talk about - very lengthily - in his videos? How he went about buying a car, and making rational decisions as to how to spend money, but not in a longer-term investment -- on buying a car. And he wasn't saying it in a "and this is the kind of things I hate doing" way, he was saying it as in, "this is the kind of thing I have some difficulty with, but I think it's important and I am glad I managed it".

That was a sheer Te topic, and more Te + Si than Te + Ni. And, again, not talked about as something he hates doing and feels he shouldn't have to.

INFp is a socionics-ignorant suggestion.

[Gilly]

spare me the logical calculus next time.

i take issue not with 7 but rather with proposition 3.

Do you REALLY think Socionics is entirely subjective? You don't think people actually have methods of taking in information that more or less correlate to sets of motivations? If not, why the hell are you wasting your time here?

you misunderstand what i mean when i say that socionics is subjective. personally, i have seen enough evidence that socionics exists in accordance with the classical sense.

what i'm getting at is not that socionics has multiple different valid interpretations, but rather that reality itself has infinitely many different valid interpretations. there is absolutely no way to logically distinguish the veracity of one from the other because they are subjective perceptions that don't mean anything.

some people might subscribe to the idea that the sky is green. in this they would be wrong only in a practical sense, but not in any kind of definite capacity.




yes, these people are stupid and they're wrong about socionics. but you can't go from there to officially deeming them enemies of the state, because it's not objective to do so. in accordance with political correctness, if you dismiss the legitimacy of their arguments not in an informal but in an official capacity, then you've already lost.

I took you for someone who would have read the Tractatus, niffweed

I'm not deeming them enemies of the state, or the forum, or even of me; I don't half mind dee when he's willing to talk sense. I'm deeming them enemies of an objective interpretation of Socionics. I don't see how I've sought to do anything more since the beginning.

[tereg]

Yes, and not only that.

Which topic did tereg choose to talk about - very lengthily - in his videos? How he went about buying a car, and making rational decisions as to how to spend money, but not in a longer-term investment -- on buying a car. And he wasn't saying it in a "and this is the kind of things I hate doing" way, he was saying it as in, "this is the kind of thing I have some difficulty with, but I think it's important and I am glad I managed it".

That was a sheer Te topic, and more Te + Si than Te + Ni. And, again, not talked about as something he hates doing and feels he shouldn't have to.

INFp is a socionics-ignorant suggestion.

I should also note that when purchasing the car, it was important to get the financing (a loan) done before I made a deal with the dealer (as suggested by the guide I followed). That involved balancing my budget and it ultimately decided what car I could purchase.

You are spot on with this analysis in my opinion, as that is exactly how I wanted it to come across (the negotiations being difficult, but it is important and I did reasonably well considering that it is not a strong aspect of mine)


Also, just so it's official official, you can rule INFp as I cannot relate well at all to the Filatova description.

Just to name a few things:

Primary :

It is difficult to analyze his behavior and he is inclined to justify himself in everything. His tendency to ignore reality, and his difficulty in self-appraisal, may lead him to egocentrism and an excessive indulgence in his own imagined world.

Bleh.

Creative :

After having interpreted the dynamics of a situation the IEI attempts, emotionally, to influence the surrounding people and to push them towards appropriate activities. He knows how to manipulate people through moods, to incite the necessary reaction and feeling; he does not accomplish this through force but with persuasion; frequently through an emotional surge that signals to others that he will perish as a brittle, delicate entity if help does not arrive and his requests are not fulfilled!

Absolutely no.

He finds that activities relating to business bring hardship upon him; therefore he tries to dispose of such work to people nearby.

I think I do the exact opposite of this.

I'm not going to put any more examples down, but suffice it to say that this is not me.

[Expat]

I'm not going to put any more examples down, but suffice it to say that this is not me.

Great.

I daresay that you'd have exactly the same reaction by reading INFp profiles in the wikisocion and those by Stratievskaya and in socioscope.

[tereg]

I'm not going to put any more examples down, but suffice it to say that this is not me.

Great.

I daresay that you'd have exactly the same reaction by reading INFp profiles in the wikisocion and those by Stratievskaya and in socioscope.

You know what? This is going to sound really weird, but I kept thinking about the content of Filatova INFp at work today.

And now I've just read the wikisocion description of INFp, and I might have to recant my earlier statement about INFp.

I need to do a bit more reading, but when I read the wikisocion article in a more relaxed state, I do identify with more pieces of it.

I will explain further once I read a little bit more, but at the moment, I cannot rule out INFp.

[Slacker]

When I first started reading about Socionics, I had a hard time figuring out if I was ENFp or INFp. There's something appealing about the idea of being INFp. They seem artistic and spiritual, and I just like the idea of it.

My point is to think about which functions you prefer and not which descriptions sound cooler or whatever. Also, if you are an NF you are strong in both Ne and Ni, and Fi and Fe. You just prefer one over the other. Sometimes it's easier to figure out which information elements you *don't* like. Te vs. Ti and Se vs. Si are a case of love/hate for NFs.

[tereg]

When I first started reading about Socionics, I had a hard time figuring out if I was ENFp or INFp. There's something appealing about the idea of being INFp. They seem artistic and spiritual, and I just like the idea of it.

My point is to think about which functions you prefer and not which descriptions sound cooler or whatever. Also, if you are an NF you are strong in both Ne and Ni, and Fi and Fe. You just prefer one over the other. Sometimes it's easier to figure out which information elements you *don't* like. Te vs. Ti and Se vs. Si are a case of love/hate for NFs.

Yeah I'm trying to keep that perspective: What am I vs. What do I like/What appeals to me.

I'm trying to be as objective about my strengths and weaknesses as I can, which is why I'm having to re-read these again.

[tereg]

So, I was typing out this post, and it has occured to me that the post I was typing will be extremely long, even by my standards.



It's almost hyper-analysis, and I'm kind of on the fence about whether or not I want to finish typing the post.

I don't know if I can summarize my thoughts at all, and I really don't want to make a post so long that it gets to a ridiculous point.

There are some key things I want to lay out, but I'm hesitant about actually posting it. Can someone help me out?

[Gilly]

Yes, and not only that.

Which topic did tereg choose to talk about - very lengthily - in his videos? How he went about buying a car, and making rational decisions as to how to spend money, but not in a longer-term investment -- on buying a car. And he wasn't saying it in a "and this is the kind of things I hate doing" way, he was saying it as in, "this is the kind of thing I have some difficulty with, but I think it's important and I am glad I managed it".

That was a sheer Te topic, and more Te + Si than Te + Ni. And, again, not talked about as something he hates doing and feels he shouldn't have to.

INFp is a socionics-ignorant suggestion.

I should also note that when purchasing the car, it was important to get the financing (a loan) done before I made a deal with the dealer (as suggested by the guide I followed). That involved balancing my budget and it ultimately decided what car I could purchase.

You are spot on with this analysis in my opinion, as that is exactly how I wanted it to come across (the negotiations being difficult, but it is important and I did reasonably well considering that it is not a strong aspect of mine)


Also, just so it's official official, you can rule INFp as I cannot relate well at all to the Filatova description.

Just to name a few things:

Primary :

It is difficult to analyze his behavior and he is inclined to justify himself in everything. His tendency to ignore reality, and his difficulty in self-appraisal, may lead him to egocentrism and an excessive indulgence in his own imagined world.

Bleh.

Creative :

After having interpreted the dynamics of a situation the IEI attempts, emotionally, to influence the surrounding people and to push them towards appropriate activities. He knows how to manipulate people through moods, to incite the necessary reaction and feeling; he does not accomplish this through force but with persuasion; frequently through an emotional surge that signals to others that he will perish as a brittle, delicate entity if help does not arrive and his requests are not fulfilled!

Absolutely no.

He finds that activities relating to business bring hardship upon him; therefore he tries to dispose of such work to people nearby.

I think I do the exact opposite of this.

I'm not going to put any more examples down, but suffice it to say that this is not me.

I don't think IEI is even an option for you, but I would have you know that the description you used places much more emphasis on the negative aspects of IEIs.

[Mea]

When I first started reading about Socionics, I had a hard time figuring out if I was ENFp or INFp. There's something appealing about the idea of being INFp. They seem artistic and spiritual, and I just like the idea of it.

My point is to think about which functions you prefer and not which descriptions sound cooler or whatever. Also, if you are an NF you are strong in both Ne and Ni, and Fi and Fe. You just prefer one over the other. Sometimes it's easier to figure out which information elements you *don't* like. Te vs. Ti and Se vs. Si are a case of love/hate for NFs.

Cool. I'm not the only one who felt that way.

[tereg]

I don't think IEI is even an option for you, but I would have you know that the description you used places much more emphasis on the negative aspects of IEIs.

At the risk of sounding vague, I will say that after reading through IEI again, it does seem that I can identify with quite a few parts of it if I explore and am honest about a darker side of my life. It does manifest itself at times, but it is not my natural way about thinking about things. If I'm driven to the edge by someone or I'm at a really low low, then I will tend to show the characteristics of IEI (some examples as people have described here: oldforumlinkviewtopic.php?t=16546&start=0). But I just don't think it happens enough to say that it's my primary mode of life.

When I initially read the IEI description I read it with a closed mind, and my initial analysis was rather flippant and reflected that. When I read it with an open mind the next day, I found out that it's not as contrasting as I originally believed, again, considering a darker side of my life. But as I thought about it overnight, I think that it's just not how I see things the majority of the time.

If you need me to cite examples, I can, but I really would rather avoid another long-winded point-by-point analysis of things I (at times) identify with about IEI.

[Gilly]

Just remember that those are negative characteristics. Too much stereotyping goes on here, and you should not be another to fall prey to the poor representation that's given of Beta NFs.

[tereg]

Just remember that those are negative characteristics. Too much stereotyping goes on here, and you should not be another to fall prey to the poor representation that's given of Beta NFs.

Duly noted.

There is one IEI who I've been talking to in whom I notice and appreciate very positive characteristics within them. So, I will take the negative characteristics with a grain of salt knowing that that is only part of the picture.

[Gilly]

[tereg]

So, I went through this thread: oldforumlinkviewtopic.php?t=16695

and this one oldforumlinkviewtopic.php?t=16689&start=0 and I got to thinking about how this potentially relates to my type.

Gilly suggested the following interpretation:

...

- Infantiles feel that having someone to provide support addresses doubts as to their ability to cope with life's obstacles (vulnerable Se).

This is really interesting because I do this quite often. I can remember numerous occasions where I have had trusted friends who were strong in a areas where I was weak. I would often lean on them to assist me in those areas and completely follow their lead/advice while at the same time acknowledging my incompetency in the area.

So this got me to thinking about my function...

He tends to avoid intruding on others' space or engaging in behavior that may be perceived as coercive, and tries hard to handle his needs by being disciplined and well-prepared himself - rather than relying on others to do things for him. If these strategies fail, his efforts at dealing with the resulting conflict make him look actively pushy in a way that appears awkward and unnatural to others. This opens him up to painful criticism and feelings of weakness and helplessness.

This entire statement also holds true for me when it comes to really wanting to be able to handle my weaknesses and needs with self-discipline and preparation, yet still heavily leaning on others who are stronger in those areas to "carry me" through it when my own efforts fail. And it has come across as being too dependent, awkward and unnatural. And then I feel bad that I just basically emotionally mooched off of them and I ended up not improving at all.

I think that statement is very representative of my actual vulnerability.

: behavior aimed at showing how competent you are in handling practical and financial affairs, or in how much knowledge in a particular subject you have, but painfully focusing on non-essentials to the point made

...

: showing off how wiser you are than others in taking care of your health by good food and avoiding personal risks, but making you look like a paranoid pussy-wimp. Also, an essentially unphysical person trying to show off how they master daily details in administration, maintainance, housekeeping, etc

As for HA, keeping in mind...

...but then you're not being pathetic, you're aware of your weakness in it and avoiding focusing on it too much

...the areas where I try way too hard and I look like a fool, I really think that I look the worst when I'm trying to appear competent in a particular area, and then one single rebuttal (or one obvious rebuttal) completely shreds me and I fold.

At the same time, I think even deeper than that and one I don't really consciously think about a lot is appearing healthy to others. While my embarassed focus is usually on competency (because I actually have failed at that kind of impression enough to shift my focus on it), I don't get asked about my health at all, so it gets conveniently set aside in conversational situations.

I think if someone came up to me and said "You don't look healthy at all to me. Are you ok? What is your diet like?", I would feel extremely embarassed about actually explaining what my dietary patterns are. I have very strange and inconsistent eating tendencies. And I think it would really embarass me to suddenly have to explain to them patterns that sound very weird and basically unhealthy. But no one ever asks me, so I never have to tell them.

But, I guess I'm trying to see how this would even be HA. It doesn't sound blatently HA to my ears, but it feels more subtle. Does a lack of consciousness of -HA actually strengthen its case? How am I to interpret this level of awareness of self-foolishness? Does my stronger awareness/experience/connection of the -HA imply that maybe my HA lies in it?

[Minde]

At the same time, I think even deeper than that and one I don't really consciously think about a lot is appearing healthy to others. While my embarassed focus is usually on competency (because I actually have failed at that kind of impression enough to shift my focus on it), I don't get asked about my health at all, so it gets conveniently set aside in conversational situations.

I think if someone came up to me and said "You don't look healthy at all to me. Are you ok? What is your diet like?", I would feel extremely embarassed about actually explaining what my dietary patterns are. I have very strange and inconsistent eating tendencies. And I think it would really embarass me to suddenly have to explain to them patterns that sound very weird and basically unhealthy. But no one ever asks me, so I never have to tell them.

...



(FWIW, in case it isn't obvious, I relate to that.)

[hellothere]

I think if someone came up to me and said "You don't look healthy at all to me. Are you ok? What is your diet like?", I would feel extremely embarassed about actually explaining what my dietary patterns are. I have very strange and inconsistent eating tendencies. And I think it would really embarass me to suddenly have to explain to them patterns that sound very weird and basically unhealthy. But no one ever asks me, so I never have to tell them.

to me, having read Expat's thread, this doesn't really relate to HA because you're not trying to give off the impression that you are healthy, you're not trying to reassure yourself of it