your avatar is almost as cute as u r in real lifeOriginally Posted by Mea
Dunno about Fe or Fi, but his whole vibe just seems INFp > INFj.
I'm not that good at typing especially online. Just my POV.
your avatar is almost as cute as u r in real lifeDunno about Fe or Fi, but his whole vibe just seems INFp > INFj.
I'm not that good at typing especially online. Just my POV.
^Typical ISFP comment there^your avatar is almost as cute as u r in real lifeDunno about Fe or Fi, but his whole vibe just seems INFp > INFj.
I'm not that good at typing especially online. Just my POV.
If that happens to me, I'll just say something incredibly weird/stupid to draw attention from the embarrassment of having a fly open.
D-SEI9w1
This is me and my dual being scientific together
I'd probably say "I know" then go back to what I was doing^Typical ISFP comment there^your avatar is almost as cute as u r in real lifeDunno about Fe or Fi, but his whole vibe just seems INFp > INFj.
I'm not that good at typing especially online. Just my POV.
If that happens to me, I'll just say something incredibly weird/stupid to draw attention from the embarrassment of having a fly open.
Wow, How comfortable you are in social situations.I'd probably say "I know" then go back to what I was doing^Typical ISFP comment there^your avatar is almost as cute as u r in real lifeDunno about Fe or Fi, but his whole vibe just seems INFp > INFj.
I'm not that good at typing especially online. Just my POV.
If that happens to me, I'll just say something incredibly weird/stupid to draw attention from the embarrassment of having a fly open.
I like extroverted behavior, but my psyche is really sensitive to criticism, thereby making me uncomfortable if a lot of attention is put on me.
[marq=up:e0e741dd70]Tereg is INFJ![/marq:e0e741dd70]
D-SEI
This is me and my dual being scientific together
you need to realize that more than half of what I on the forum is just me being a smart assWow, How comfortable you are in social situations.I'd probably say "I know" then go back to what I was doing^Typical ISFP comment there^your avatar is almost as cute as u r in real lifeDunno about Fe or Fi, but his whole vibe just seems INFp > INFj.
I'm not that good at typing especially online. Just my POV.
If that happens to me, I'll just say something incredibly weird/stupid to draw attention from the embarrassment of having a fly open.
I like extroverted behavior, but my psyche is really sensitive to criticism, thereby making me uncomfortable if a lot of attention is put on me.
[marq=down:0e92916822]Tereg is INFJ![/marq:0e92916822]
I take stuff at face value by default, especially on the internets.you need to realize that more than half of what I on the forum is just me being a smart assWow, How comfortable you are in social situations.
I'd probably say "I know" then go back to what I was doing
I like extroverted behavior, but my psyche is really sensitive to criticism, thereby making me uncomfortable if a lot of attention is put on me.
[marq=down:9009c4e266]Tereg is INFJ![/marq:9009c4e266]
D-SEI
This is me and my dual being scientific together
yes, yes, exactly.
6w5 sx
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
I'm going to have to extrapolate "occurate" because I can't find a definition at the moment, so I hope I answer this adequately.
I don't like looking suspicious or looking lost to people. So, I do pretend at times to appear "busybody", even though I'm effectively not doing anything.
Like if I'm waiting for someone outside a restaurant and I feel uncomfortable about going outside, I'll check my voice mail as I'm standing around so it doesn't look like I need something or look suspicious.
Absolutely correct.
When my heart is there I will work on and towards something for long long hours. When I'm on something, I am devoted to it.
As far as being an excellent efficient worker? No. I struggle with efficiency, BUT, if I'm working on something, I make it a priority to make sure things get done.
And then there's also my tendency to put a lot of energy into an interest, and then move on to another interest leaving the other one behind, but then I cyclicly come back around to it eventually.
I have the capability of it, but it does not come naturally to me. I don't think on my feet very well. I'm not a very good on-the-spot communicator. As evidenced by my long-winded posts, I prefer to be able to sit down and think about what I want to say, then let it all out.
So, I would say naturally, no.
I think that I do have a tendency to do this. But I think when I do that, I try to make sense of something I'm not familiar with. But, unfortunately it becomes a defense mechanism of avoidance if I group someone a certain way and they make me uncomfortable. Also the "categories" seem to be non-concrete as in sometimes I can't put a word to the categories. I just know how to distinguish instinctively between them.
Yes. When I have something I really want to say, I want to say it immediately because I'm afraid of forgetting it. When I don't have anything I want to say, I am very attentive.
Internally I feel like I go through really high highs and really low lows. And I wear my emotions on my sleeve. I like to think of myself as level-headed and reasonable, but the fact of the matter is that I go through pretty defined gradual emotional changes.
No. I always feel like I have to explain my intentions and explain the details before I make my final point.
I desire succintness for my explanations because I know that long-winded explanations tire some people out. (And when people are patient with my long-winded explanations, I feel a greater sense of gratitude for their patience) So, it's something I'm consciously aware that I do, but try to be more to the point.
If I am in a group that I feel very comfortable in, and the atmosphere is such that it is welcome to freely open up and discuss emotional things, I still try to be respectful to others of how I say things, and also I'm very keenly mindful of knowing what is appropriate to talk about and what isn't.
Like I will think about things that I don't mind being open about, but might not be appropriate for the situation. And I prefer to adhere to the structure and spirit of the environment in determining what I want to talk about out of respect.
I do not feel comfortable at all verbally complaining about... what I would deem "petty" things. This goes back to my dislike of verbally commenting on things (or everything) that I observe. Yes, there are things I will notice that bother me, and I might display that conflict physically (body language). But I really don't like verbally discussing those dislikes with others. Instead, I process them internally.
If they have emotional significance to me, it is difficult to part ways with it. But, if I see that someone needs something more than I need it, I am definitely ok with giving my things away or sharing them.
When I do technical support troubleshooting, I will often refer to similarities in previous experiences. When I can't find the answer right away, I have a good knack at finding other people who have very similar symptoms of the problems I am trying to fix and getting a solution that way.
Emotionally, not so much. I'm stubborn at times and I tend to repeat many mistakes even though I learned what I did wrong in the previous instance and I have a difficult time actually applying the lesson in the current instance.
If the plans are things that must get done, I'm not concerned about being tied up in them. I will often sacrifice my needs (to unhealthy degrees, admittedly) to make sure that plans that must get done will get done.
No. I feel like I can really see emotional and relational aesthetics very well. I'm very confident in my ability to put myself in another person's shoes and really being able to 1) Ask myself "How would I feel if I was in this position? What would I think? How would I react and what would I do?" and 2) allowing myself to be able to feel any emotion and be able to determine and identify the core need.
When things are out of place I will notice. Socially, I'm more keen about the people immediately around me, but will sometimes be clouded by my perception of what they're thinking/doing
But there are times when though I notice things out of place or missing, I will not always fix it (because my focus/priority is usually elsewhere at the time), which bothers me. I like being tidy and orderly, and I feel embarassed if someone happens to see the disorder that I see (or saw and failed to fix).
When I'm excited about something or really motivated by something, I can be quite loud and full of energy. And I can talk ad nauseum about such topics as well, as long as the other person is interested and willing to hear what I have to say.
There are times when I purposely shut people out (for various reasons, it's not really one thing that determines why I do this), but I really do desire the company of others, especially if I need to verbally discuss a thought process I'm having a hard time making a decision on.
I don't like relying on myself and my own knowledge to make difficult decisions. I seek counsel in others and others' opinions to help solidify a position I'm having a hard time making.
I'd have to say that I didn't say yes to most of these.
I love questions like these, btw. If you have more like this, I would love to answer them.
See, I'm glad that you're bringing this up because in my original post, and after reading more about socioncs vs MBTI, I'm more keenly recognizing and wanting to discuss temperaments between when I'm at work and when I'm not at work. Because I find the relationship between what I do at work and who am as self intriguing, especially considering that I have an EE degree doing tech support and yet my temperament seems (at least on the surface) to contradict the nature of what I do at my job.
The nature of my job IS very T, but I think that my satisfaction and ability to do it well feeds a larger need of mine, which is my contributions are making a difference. When I can do something well and really fit in and I'm in a welcoming environment and it really is contributing to something good and building something better because I have a hand in it... that is extremely satisfying for me.
(Hello,-creative ? )
And part of what I was trying to imply in my original post (and the discussion about my major choice), was the discomfort I had during my last year as an EE major. The fact that I just could not allow myself to do something 1) that I didn't fully desire (for various reasons, which I can discuss if needed) and 2) feeling like I wouldn't be able to adequately contribute enough to my satisfaction towards the profession. I just didn't feel like I could do EE as my job, EVEN THOUGH I knew deep down I had the capability of doing it.
(
He's clearly some kind of hybrid type, proves the utttttter weakness of MBTI.
He's obviously a typeless individual. :wink:
D-SEI
This is me and my dual being scientific together
enfj, heavy hearted male variety
also, about ST and engineering:
works on a scale of masculinity for Beta ST. Will see super tough guy beta ST in mechanical/electrical. Will see more intellectual beta ST variety in hard physical sciences- chem, bio, etc. delta ST I see in all engineerng programs, and lots of in business/management. Most of the Chem dept at my uni is NT, and mostly alpha. There is a couple delta ST, but i have not noticed many Delta ST in non-engineering physical sciences. Also, only the foreign students are not hicks at the engineering program at my school. The engineering program at my school is vast, and well recognized as the best in the area, but all those guys seem like dumbasses to me.
asd
What makes you say that?
D-SEI
This is me and my dual being scientific together
just an impression. You seem very thoughtful about who you are as a person, and could be any NF type, but I surmised ENFj from V.I., and from another guy you remind me of who is ENFj. He is a positive guy who likes to work and accomplish tasks, but he seems internally torn and sad-- and this is what i see in your photographs.
asd
Are we identicals dee?
anyway, I did not get that vibe from the two ENFJ's I know well, but I guess they are not of the heavy hearted variety.
D-SEI
This is me and my dual being scientific together
*gasps* Wot? I'm 'ighly offended, I em!I'll agree to that. I'd even be willing to bet that Auvi wouldn't take any offense to being called foppish
tereg seems Alpha to me, in terms of humor and copious writing style. V.I. reminds me a little of thehotelambush. I would say INTj-Ne.
"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet
I digress, but I did meet this guy who lived in London, we were both ISFP and we did so much things the same way.hard to say. it's 99.9% better in real life.
We even wore the same type of shoe exactly, and he is 1 year, 1 month, and 1 day older than me.
D-SEI
This is me and my dual being scientific together
EDIT:I forgot to mention this, but sometimes, I will check my voicemail even when I have no voicemails.
No. I really can't say that I do that. I observe and process first, then ask.
If I have something that I want to interject into a conversation and I'm not paying attention (that's when I would be thinking about something totally different), I get embarassed, and I try to make it up by looking attentive. (I know, not cool... knowing this about myself really bothers me internally because I fear disrespecting others yet I'm basically doing just that by not actually being attentive)
I'd say no to this. I believe that I tend to suppress emotions in environments where it's not acceptable... which I don't consider taking hold of it in my fist easily and quickly. I'm interpreting your question as "Can you control your emotions?" and I'm saying "No, because instead of controlling them, I'm suppressing them which I don't think is the same thing"Internally I feel like I go through really high highs and really low lows. And I wear my emotions on my sleeve. I like to think of myself as level-headed and reasonable, but the fact of the matter is that I go through pretty defined gradual emotional changes. BUT CAN YOU CLENCH THEM IN YOUR FIST EASILY AND QUICKLY IF YOU HAVE TO? AUSHRA RELATED SUCH EMOTIONAL FLUCTUATIONS TO PERCEIVING/JUDGING. BY HER IT' PERCEIVING.
No, because I always feel like I'm leaving things out if I cut to the chase like others would need.
No. I prefer seeing the good in people. If it just so happens that I observe something negative in someone, ok. But I'm probably not going to openly discuss this.I do not feel comfortable at all verbally complaining about... what I would deem "petty" things. This goes back to my dislike of verbally commenting on things (or everything) that I observe. Yes, there are things I will notice that bother me, and I might display that conflict physically (body language). But I really don't like verbally discussing those dislikes with others. Instead, I process them internally. BUT YOU ARE INTO MORE NEGATIVE THAN POSITIVE JUDGEMENTS?
(Is that
I prefer flexibility. I could just as easily be gone from this job in the future and doing something I never thought imaginable. I'm open to that. I'm open to considering and doing things that are contrary to my present reality.
I don't like having all my life planned out because what if my heart and desire isn't in something that has been pretermined for me to do 20 years from now? Now I feel obligated to do it and I feel conflicted about doing it just because it's been determined that I do it. No.
Ok, I'm going basically about what I know about MBTI ENFP and ESFP, and this is strictly just my thoughts on these types. I hope I'm not too far off base about these.No. I feel like I can really see emotional and relational aesthetics very well. I'm very confident in my ability to put myself in another person's shoes and really being able to 1) Ask myself "How would I feel if I was in this position? What would I think? How would I react and what would I do?" and 2) allowing myself to be able to feel any emotion and be able to determine and identify the core need. BUT SAY IN COMPARISONS TO ENFPS OR ESFPS?
ESFPs to me would tend to interact with other people in such a way where their help is based upon helping others ease their minds/forget their worries for a while, whereas myself, I'd rather help others so that they can definitively see and finger what their needs are and illustrate things that can be done to address those needs.
ENFPs to me are more advocate types. Their interaction with other people relates to a need to relay to people "Hey, watch out, because..." or "You really need to get behind this because..." and I prefer not to interact with people in this regard. I don't like to shove truth down people's throat. I personally prefer to illustrate another person's need (when they request it) by doing just that, try to convey an understanding of what the need is and then looking at the things (options) they can do to fulfill that need. Reasonable things. I feel uncomfortable trying to press someone to do something if they themselves feel uncomfortable about it.
I hope that adequately answers your questions.
i considered that solely based on the resemblance to chibikeba's ex. they look really similar and perhaps both give me the "childish" vibe of alpha. is any type prone to being excessively verbose?*gasps* Wot? I'm 'ighly offended, I em!I'll agree to that. I'd even be willing to bet that Auvi wouldn't take any offense to being called foppish
tereg seems Alpha to me, in terms of humor and copious writing style. V.I. reminds me a little of thehotelambush. I would say INTj-Ne.
6w5 sx
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
Dude, please stop...
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Probably not. But it seems like Ne-valuing types usually have the longest posts on the forum.
Don't make him stop. He cracks me up.Dude, please stop...
"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet
He makes me sad.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Oh.Ridiculous.
"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet
dee is the new diockleclan. absolutely unintelligible.
asd
Maybe "dee" is short for diockloeclan.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
YOU'RE TELLIN ME!
6w5 sx
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
no, I mean in general. I didn't even consider our different opinions, but your style. It's like wild suppositions that don't seem to make sense, and it seems you are at complete disconnect with the things everyone else accepts as true regarding socionics(not to suppose that they are in fact facts, but that there is some established standard which proves wise to understand). Reminds me of dickclan. I don't mean to be insulting. it is more to let you know that you are very difficult to understand.
asd
this is a difficult position to advance given thata lot of us are on the same page and it is a page that's long been written--lending it some credibility.
asd
oops, can an admin please move my above post to hellothere's type thread? ty
whenever the dog and i see each other we both stop where we are. we regard each other with a mixture of sadness and suspicion and then we feign indifference.
Jerry, The Zoo Story by Edward Albee
Trust me, nobody cares.
Obviously the majority isn't always right, but man, when you see yourself going up against it as much as you have been, don't you have to second guess yourself?
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Show of hands?
Go ahead and make a new thread if you really think you'll net someone.
Look, I'm really not trying to be a dick to you. I just want you to think this shit over again before you declare that he is DEFINITELY SLE when the most popular opinion in the thread is EII and nothing about his self-description shows Se or Ti tendencies.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Re: Intro and self-analysis (long post + pictures)
hey, I was exactly the same! I actually study computer science at university right now (alongside economics and psychology), but I too wouldn't want to work as a programmer or engineer for a living. what you said about not being motivated solely by monetary gain is exactly the same as me. but my other reasons are a bit different - I really want to work in a field where I can contribute more directly to improving people's lives (quality of life)... I feel like my life work has to have more meaning. Sitting in front of a computer all day churning out code for a big corporation just doesn't seem to satisfy that. however I guess I still have it as a backup, and I guess its good if it does pay well (I have this strange, overwhelming desire to pay back my parents with things they were never able to afford for themselves)
Yeah I do the head shake thing! And I think I do something similar, I said in my own thread that I "talk to myself" in my head a lot, but most of the time it's me going through things I would say in an upcoming conversation or meeting. But I don't so much consciously relate it to things in the past, and I'm usually very bad at actually saying the things that I go through in my head.Do you ever do that thing where you remember something from the past, like a bad memory, and then you shake your head quickly and it goes away? I think you and I actually are not that different in this regard because I do that a lot. There are some things that I will consciously play out in my head, but usually they are things that have not happened yet and it usually happens when I want to apply some principle or lesson that I'm not that great at. Like if I need to be assertive in an upcoming meeting, I will play out variants in my head of things or phrases I need to say over and over. I might need to be more clear about my word "replay" because what I mean (as it relates to my past) is the same memory will occur frequently and I can instantly think of the entire situation, but I don't want to replay the entire scene, so I shake it off. I'll only "replay" it if I'm consciously trying to do something different in a memory from my past. That ends up being fruitless because, hey, I can't change the past.
I hope that clarifies my position a little bit.
And your video was amusing! you have an insanely expressive face
I actually thought IEE or ILE based on VI alone, so I'm not going to give you a hard time about that, but...don't act like we should put so much stake in your opinion if this is really all there is to it. That's called lacking intellectual integrity.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Ahh, now I see what you're getting at. I think that while I'd like to think of myself as someone that trusts people, the truth is, is that I have a hard time trusting people in some ways and sometimes it really scares me. And I'll explain this in just a second, but first, I'd like to use another analogy.
When I went to fall camps and stuff like that, they'd have that trust fall activity. Basically you stand on a 3"x3" square about 4 feet up, close your eyes, cross your arms and fall straight back into a group of people that is waiting to catch you. I had to completely trust the person/people behind me that they were willing and going to catch me. I was forced to block all of those thoughts that they could easily choose to trick me and not catch me and let me fall, I hope I didn't do something to piss them off so much that they would just let me fall, etc etc. And it really did scare me internally, a lot... until I just let go and fell back. The moment when they caught me always came as somewhat of a surprise to me. They didn't have to catch me, but they did. Grace. But I clearly remember that small moment where I consciously decided to be carefree. And it felt pure, free and liberating.
I trust people about things that I have control over (the things I feel, the things I think... that transparency I try to achieve with people I know). But I struggle with trusting people where I have no jurisdiction or say or control... because it makes me vulnerable. It scares the living crap out of me. But when I do make myself let go, it is always good.
I think that in turn causes me, really deep down to not be able to fully trust other people. Because I do often wonder deep down inside myself if they have ulterior motives.
I will read up on this as soon as I'm done posting.(Is that
I tried to use the disclamer of what I knew (strictly my subjective knowledge) about ENFP and ESFP as I'm still learning about the subtleties of Socionics and still reading up on them. But that's ok, because in time I'll understand.
I had to read up on the translated Filatova Fi description for IEE because I didn't quite grasp what you were saying.
So, I will quote thusly:
In the social aspect, this is pretty spot on for me. It is very important for me to make others aware of all possibilities. I do easily connect with others, and I do identify with becoming the "soul" of company. I can't really explain in words why, but this does resonate in me. In a casual social setting, I most definitely try to mask negative experiences to avoid judgements from others. In a more serious, intimate setting, this does not weigh on me because the point is for me to be open about my negative experiences without fear of judgement.All possibilities must be made aware to others so that they may act on them. IEE easily makes contact with others and rapidly becomes the soul of the company. Is able to connect with spectators and students, and is ready to play with their attention. Her behaviour is noticeably impulsive, her mood frequently varies, but she tries to hide all of her negative experiences from others to avoid their judgments.
It's funny, but during my poker playing phases, I did consider it very interesting to see how the things I do or say manipulated another person's mood. I do think about things like this from time to time and I do find it rather intriguing and interesting.IEE possesses the gift of inspiring those that surround her towards activities, which can be considered promising and revealing in the long-term. She finds it rather interesting to manipulate – literally to juggle with the moods of others. Here she is an experimenter, curiously observing the reactions of others to her emotional provocations.
Again, pretty spot on. I love speaking out verbally to others the good that I honestly seen within them. I love encouraging others. But it can and does emotionally drain me though when I focus on this too much and I don't tend to my needs.She wonderfully manages the emotional sphere, she gives compliments to others and is sincere for she is always ready to notice the positive traits inherent in others, but she may sometimes chaff, and attempt to tease a little… this is never done with actual spite but in a playful manner, as if it’s a game.
I do find myself distracted with others when I try to simultaneous tend to multiple people's needs that I think I can provide. And I am good at avoiding conflict and when it does come I do feel a sense of urgency to rid myself of it because I don't handle pressure well and I dislike being involved in conflict situations.Benevolence and optimism are generally inherent in people of this psycho-type. They are eager to offer aid, but one ought not to rely too heavily on their promises for they are often forgetful, and easily distracted by other people.
By wonderfully understanding the moods of people IEE knows how to deftly avoid conflict, to extinguish such with a joke. But when the reason for conflict aligns with her inherent interests she may get caught up in the conflict, in such situations she acts actively and decisively.
And Filatova Fi for SEE:
This I do not identify with. I do not like being the center of attention. I prefer to be a member among the group. I don't like provoking people and I really don't handle quarrels that well because it requires a sharp, confident response to counteract, and most times I fold under pressure.SEE magnificently manipulates people by their moods and desires. He loves to be the center of attention, to fascinate others with his ideas. He easily provokes quarrels but just as easily reconciles them, as if playing; pulling the strings. It is important for him to preserve the good opinion of other towards him, not to let himself fall, to stress his talent and exclusiveness. He’s a great actor and can manifest outstanding diplomatic inclinations, well cultured.
I don't really implore action from people. If they need to break down and have a few moments of letting it all out, then I believe they're doing what they see fit in that moment.Sensing well the moods of others, SEE can support a comrade through a difficult moment; manifest his participation, his sympathy. By being naturally volitional and cheerful he impels other to act, not to fall apart or whine.
I can be at times chameleon-like to match the emotion of the room (the vibe). But I am not confident in how I express my relation to the vibe. It is kinda fuzzy in my mind when I try to explain the mood in a room. Many times, I can't put it into words, but I understand intuitively what that mood is.The SEE – men with bright and intense emotional range – from angry indignation to noisy enthusiasm. He thus always finds himself included in the emotional situation, he is ready to act: to help, to sympathize, to fight, to condemn, - and no matter how he expresses his relation to that occurring he is always absolutely confident in the correctness of his sentence.
Mmm. I find myself hesitant sometimes. I try to avoid the rejection by first considering what might happen in a given "initiative" situation and figuring out possible responses. Once I've established possible outcomes, then I feel ok about initiation. But it doesn't not come readily to me.With the opposite sex he readily displays initiative. Though to suffer rejection may be tragic he knows to move on.
I don't relate to this either, except for the music and singing part. I do enjoy playing music/singing, but usually it's when no one's around or listening.Strong excitability and emotionalism give rise to increased sexuality. Especially in the younger years it is difficult to settle down.
SEE is prone to jealousy, may frequently suspect partner of treason, and does not pardon innocent flirtation.
Bright emotionalism also develops in the love of arts; SEE especially loves music and singing. Frequently he has some of his own music, demonstrates to all his talent and ability.
So, in the Fi-Creative sense (socially), I relate more to ENFp than ESFp.
I had to look up constructivism since I'm not familiar with that, but I'm assuming the question is: Will I tend to use a simplied, abstract approach rather than a more "business-like" approach when tending to one's needs. And I would say my approach is more abstract and simplified. I guess maybe what I'm doing is enabling the person to make the decision for themselves for what choice suits them. So I try to clearly lay out all the cards and show them each possibility and what each one of those possibilities entail.
And I really value this. Because this does get me to consider points of view I had not considered before... which is why I'm responding to these questions.
I'm trying to keep an open mind about the typing process because I know firsthand how much my bias really can skew how I type. That is evidenced by how I've typed (albeit MBTI-wise) over the span of my life. I've been all over the map, but looking back on it, I can clearly see how my core is still seen in the different typings I've had (like bias towards what I really want to be instead of what I am, etc.) That's why this process is so stimulating for me because, again, getting others' perspectives helps me to solidify or to dismiss a position that I might have.
Re: Intro and self-analysis (long post + pictures)
Thank you! I worked on your thread for a few hours earlier this morning and have taken a lot of notes, but I'm still working them out. I hope to contribute my thoughts on your thread soon once I have a clearer picture of what I've observed.
Whoops, forgot this question
In urgent or critical situations I do pressure myself to cut to the chase but then it feels like everything comes out all jagged and incoherent when I do that. I get nervous because they demand an answer right now and in order to satisfy them, I have to cut out a lot of things I'd want to say. In pressure-packed situations I really struggle to be coherent and clear-headed.No, because I always feel like I'm leaving things out if I cut to the chase like others would need. WHAT ABOUT URGENT OR CRITICAL SITUATIONS?
I hate to do this, but tereg, if you really want to find your Socionics type, you'd be better off not paying attention to dee.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
I have a few questions before I get to your questions.
After reading up on Reinin and positivism/negatism, in what aspects or areas of what I have said thus far are you using in making your determination?
Socially, if I'm negativist by my distrust of things I cannot control, would there be any positivist adjustment if I am trusting and open of others about any aspect of my life (because I can control that)?
Would my propensity for honestly and sincerely complimenting others have any effect on it?
How would you gage how I discuss the explain the way Things are/Things are not split?
Is the change negligible?
Ok, to your questions.
Do I like to be the life of the company? Ehh. There might be a small amount of time if I am "performing" for someone that I enjoy being the life. But really it's based on my perception of their acceptance of what I'm doing. (I take criticisms to heart and quite bluntly) I don't really feel like it's a sentiment I value. It's something I can be... but I (generally speaking) don't seek to be the life of the party.
I'm not sure what you mean by "fish in the water". I'm guessing, do I take great pleasure in getting what I want from manipulating others? If that's what you mean, then I say, No. Hell no. As I said before, manipulating others is a fascinating concept to me in seeing how it works and what people can do to alter it. But, I certainly don't take any satisfaction in purposely manipulating another person to get something for myself. If I did that consciously, I would not feel very good about myself.
Do I regulate distances in relationships by not coming to appointments or disappearing? Ahh, you mean like trying to maintain boundaries? I think there is a bit of truth to that. If I'm driven to that point, it's because mainly what I'm thinking is, "I know that if I'm around them it will show in my body language that I don't really want to be there, and that wouldn't be fair to them." So, I'm not sure that I'm actively trying to "regulate distance" when I say that, but rather attempting (operative word: attempting) to not subject the person to my bad attitude by being there. (I don't want them to ask what's wrong when there's something obviously wrong because I don't feel like I can personally adequately explain why.) But, I think honestly what is happening is others interpret it as me regulating distance. I think that I might not be trying to do it, but it still happens anyway.
As for Delta/Beta, I will use the dominant and subdued elements in that analysis (I will go further if needed, but I feel this might suffice for now)
Dominant
Delta Te blocked with Si
*BIG THUMBS UP*Delta types make a point of talking about the rationale behind their actions and emphasizing the productiveness or unproductiveness of different ways of doing things - even in such emotional areas as personal relationships.
Delta types value peaceful, refreshing activities where they are doing something useful and balancing out their inner world at the same time.
Delta types have the philosophy that they will have to rely on their own industriousness to achieve their goals rather than on luck, speculation, group effort, or strong leadership.
Delta Ne blocked with Fi
*TWO BIG THUMBS UP*Delta types love to share personal experience mixed with their own sentiments regarding their experiences, but all in an insightful and non-dramatic manner.
Delta types like to talk about new beginnings, opportunities for personal growth, and their plans and prospects for the future.
Subdued
Delta Fe blocked with Ni
Again, very spot on, I think.Delta types rarely display their deep passions and vision, preferring instead to talk in more neutral terms about what they want to do and why.
Delta types reject dramatism and emotional affect in favor of wry humor and understatement.
Delta types don't tend to form or maintain groups based on fun, emotional interaction, but only take groups seriously that perform some common productive or restful activity.
Delta types generally dislike using poetic wording when describing their inner state, but talk simply about what they feel or their bodily sensations.
Delta Se blocked with Ti
I think I basically just described this. I fold like a lawn chair in the face of high-pressure situations because I can't think clearly in those moments.Delta types do not fare well in high-pressure situations where they are being forced to do things, are facing threatening opponents, or are submitted to rigorous discipline, but wear out quickly and look for a more peaceful and welcoming environment.
Dominant
Beta Si blocked with Se
Some of this is true for me. Some of it is not.Beta quadra types prefer situations where the power structure and hierarchy is clearly defined according to consistent rules where ambiguities are minimized.
Beta quadra types are more confident analysing realistic characteristics of situations, people, and objects, rather than alternative and could-it-be scenarios.
Beta quadra types are inclined to attribute to a new acquaintance traits that they have previously observed in other individuals belonging to the same group as they see the new acquaintance as belonging to (Aristocracy).
Beta quadra types are inclined to look for general rules explaining people, politics, mechanisms and trends, rules that once defined can be applied generally, rather than go about things in a case-by-case way.
Beta quadra types are energized by competitive situations where analytical tactics are emphasized.
I do appreciate power structures that have definition and have clearly defined roles. But, at the same time I think that a person is certainly capable of overlapping the boundaries of the position they hold. Like, for instance, as a technical support person at the bank, if a situation arises in which I need to be something outside of my "job description" at my job, like maybe something non-technically customer service oriented-ish, I think it's ok to do that. I think it's ok for overlap to exist, yet still have the structure of positions.
I do kind of ride the fence about analyzing characteristics between realistic vs. could-it-be.
Though it is true that I might attribute traits to new acquaintances, it's not something that is at the forefront of my mind. Like, I don't look at a new person and initially think to myself "OK, what kind of person is this that I'm dealing with?" I think maybe I needed to be more specific above, but I generally formulate characteristics about a person once I've gotten to know them. I purposely try to withhold drawing conclusions about people I don't know too soon because there have been too many times in my life where I assume something about someone, and then been completely dead wrong.
I definitely do not identify with applying rules to explain people, politics, mechanisms and trends. I very much keep my mind open to the fact than an exception to the rule might exist.
Competitions where analytic tactics are used do not energize me. (Like, I like games like Risk, Stratego, Chess, etc... but, ehhh... games like that are not my favorite games in the world)
Competitions that involve ranges of skill and versatility do energize me (sports, party games, things like that)
Beta Fe blocked with Ni
I've always been quite annoyed when I've been involved in large group activities and they try to get everyone to do the same thing. It feels so contrived to me.Beta types tend to enjoy group activities where the whole group participates in generating a common emotional atmosphere, as in laughing at jokes, etc.
Beta types tend to feel energized in the presence of people who share their beliefs and express them with obvious enthusiasm and emotion.
Beta types tend to give more value to feelings when they are demonstrated with clear emotional expression, and tend to increase the level of their own emotional expression in order to get a reaction from other people.
Beta types tend to describe personal views of special meaning with "poetic" or "dramatic" expressions and language.
I do feel energized when I'm around people that share my point of view on things and can bounce ideas back to me. But not as much as when I can get new ideas and new perspectives from others.
I do identify with the third one. I've done that before. I think it's more of a hidden agenda of mine. Where I secretly want people to be concerned for me when I display emotional expressions even though I don't explain much when they ask what's wrong (mainly because it's generally hard to put into words the answer to the question when someone asks and I haven't given the answer enough thought)
Again, when I describe my personal views on things, I try not to use flowery language, but try to convey it as simply as possible and in such a way where everyone can understand what I'm trying to say.
Subdued
Beta Fi blocked with Ne
I think the first one pretty much goes against what I've tried to do throughout this thread.Beta types are not inclined to enjoy discussions of personal experiences when the focus is on a person's own inner feelings, especially when described in a subdued way.
Beta types tend to be skeptical of another individual's potential for personal growth in terms of abilities and character, and dislike being the subject of such a discussion by others about themselves.
I am not skeptical about the potential for personal growth for other people. And that includes my own.
Also, I think it should be noted being the subject of a discussion by others about themselves is not the same thing (to me at least) as being the center of attention. I was just thinking about that over dinner, in fact before I read that. The discussion in this thread is communal. Being the center of attention to me is not communal. I am the topic of the thread, but that doesn't bother me like standing up in the middle of a crowd of people and proclaiming "HEY! LOOK OVER HERE. LOOKY WHAT I CAN DO!"
Beta Te blocked with Si
Hmm. No, the details of a process are very important to me moreso than overseeing the process's work. Sometimes I focus too much on the details and lose sight of process itself and the purpose, but the details are still very important to me.Beta types tend to look down on nuts-and-bolts, detailed work as a source of success, preferring to focus on "vision" and leadership.
Wow, I couldn't handle being analyzed like this, it'd be so tedious for me.I have a few questions before I get to your questions.
After reading up on Reinin and positivism/negatism, in what aspects or areas of what I have said thus far are you using in making your determination?
Socially, if I'm negativist by my distrust of things I cannot control, would there be any positivist adjustment if I am trusting and open of others about any aspect of my life (because I can control that)?
Would my propensity for honestly and sincerely complimenting others have any effect on it?
How would you gage how I discuss the explain the way Things are/Things are not split?
Is the change negligible?
Ok, to your questions.
Do I like to be the life of the company? Ehh. There might be a small amount of time if I am "performing" for someone that I enjoy being the life. But really it's based on my perception of their acceptance of what I'm doing. (I take criticisms to heart and quite bluntly) I don't really feel like it's a sentiment I value. It's something I can be... but I (generally speaking) don't seek to be the life of the party.
I'm not sure what you mean by "fish in the water". I'm guessing, do I take great pleasure in getting what I want from manipulating others? If that's what you mean, then I say, No. Hell no. As I said before, manipulating others is a fascinating concept to me in seeing how it works and what people can do to alter it. But, I certainly don't take any satisfaction in purposely manipulating another person to get something for myself. If I did that consciously, I would not feel very good about myself.
Do I regulate distances in relationships by not coming to appointments or disappearing? Ahh, you mean like trying to maintain boundaries? I think there is a bit of truth to that. If I'm driven to that point, it's because mainly what I'm thinking is, "I know that if I'm around them it will show in my body language that I don't really want to be there, and that wouldn't be fair to them." So, I'm not sure that I'm actively trying to "regulate distance" when I say that, but rather attempting (operative word: attempting) to not subject the person to my bad attitude by being there. (I don't want them to ask what's wrong when there's something obviously wrong because I don't feel like I can personally adequately explain why.) But, I think honestly what is happening is others interpret it as me regulating distance. I think that I might not be trying to do it, but it still happens anyway.
As for Delta/Beta, I will use the dominant and subdued elements in that analysis (I will go further if needed, but I feel this might suffice for now)
Dominant
Delta Te blocked with Si
*BIG THUMBS UP*Delta types make a point of talking about the rationale behind their actions and emphasizing the productiveness or unproductiveness of different ways of doing things - even in such emotional areas as personal relationships.
Delta types value peaceful, refreshing activities where they are doing something useful and balancing out their inner world at the same time.
Delta types have the philosophy that they will have to rely on their own industriousness to achieve their goals rather than on luck, speculation, group effort, or strong leadership.
Delta Ne blocked with Fi
*TWO BIG THUMBS UP*Delta types love to share personal experience mixed with their own sentiments regarding their experiences, but all in an insightful and non-dramatic manner.
Delta types like to talk about new beginnings, opportunities for personal growth, and their plans and prospects for the future.
Subdued
Delta Fe blocked with Ni
Again, very spot on, I think.Delta types rarely display their deep passions and vision, preferring instead to talk in more neutral terms about what they want to do and why.
Delta types reject dramatism and emotional affect in favor of wry humor and understatement.
Delta types don't tend to form or maintain groups based on fun, emotional interaction, but only take groups seriously that perform some common productive or restful activity.
Delta types generally dislike using poetic wording when describing their inner state, but talk simply about what they feel or their bodily sensations.
Delta Se blocked with Ti
I think I basically just described this. I fold like a lawn chair in the face of high-pressure situations because I can't think clearly in those moments.Delta types do not fare well in high-pressure situations where they are being forced to do things, are facing threatening opponents, or are submitted to rigorous discipline, but wear out quickly and look for a more peaceful and welcoming environment.
Dominant
Beta Si blocked with Se
Some of this is true for me. Some of it is not.Beta quadra types prefer situations where the power structure and hierarchy is clearly defined according to consistent rules where ambiguities are minimized.
Beta quadra types are more confident analysing realistic characteristics of situations, people, and objects, rather than alternative and could-it-be scenarios.
Beta quadra types are inclined to attribute to a new acquaintance traits that they have previously observed in other individuals belonging to the same group as they see the new acquaintance as belonging to (Aristocracy).
Beta quadra types are inclined to look for general rules explaining people, politics, mechanisms and trends, rules that once defined can be applied generally, rather than go about things in a case-by-case way.
Beta quadra types are energized by competitive situations where analytical tactics are emphasized.
I do appreciate power structures that have definition and have clearly defined roles. But, at the same time I think that a person is certainly capable of overlapping the boundaries of the position they hold. Like, for instance, as a technical support person at the bank, if a situation arises in which I need to be something outside of my "job description" at my job, like maybe something non-technically customer service oriented-ish, I think it's ok to do that. I think it's ok for overlap to exist, yet still have the structure of positions.
I do kind of ride the fence about analyzing characteristics between realistic vs. could-it-be.
Though it is true that I might attribute traits to new acquaintances, it's not something that is at the forefront of my mind. Like, I don't look at a new person and initially think to myself "OK, what kind of person is this that I'm dealing with?" I think maybe I needed to be more specific above, but I generally formulate characteristics about a person once I've gotten to know them. I purposely try to withhold drawing conclusions about people I don't know too soon because there have been too many times in my life where I assume something about someone, and then been completely dead wrong.
I definitely do not identify with applying rules to explain people, politics, mechanisms and trends. I very much keep my mind open to the fact than an exception to the rule might exist.
Competitions where analytic tactics are used do not energize me. (Like, I like games like Risk, Stratego, Chess, etc... but, ehhh... games like that are not my favorite games in the world)
Competitions that involve ranges of skill and versatility do energize me (sports, party games, things like that)
Beta Fe blocked with Ni
I've always been quite annoyed when I've been involved in large group activities and they try to get everyone to do the same thing. It feels so contrived to me.Beta types tend to enjoy group activities where the whole group participates in generating a common emotional atmosphere, as in laughing at jokes, etc.
Beta types tend to feel energized in the presence of people who share their beliefs and express them with obvious enthusiasm and emotion.
Beta types tend to give more value to feelings when they are demonstrated with clear emotional expression, and tend to increase the level of their own emotional expression in order to get a reaction from other people.
Beta types tend to describe personal views of special meaning with "poetic" or "dramatic" expressions and language.
I do feel energized when I'm around people that share my point of view on things and can bounce ideas back to me. But not as much as when I can get new ideas and new perspectives from others.
I do identify with the third one. I've done that before. I think it's more of a hidden agenda of mine. Where I secretly want people to be concerned for me when I display emotional expressions even though I don't explain much when they ask what's wrong (mainly because it's generally hard to put into words the answer to the question when someone asks and I haven't given the answer enough thought)
Again, when I describe my personal views on things, I try not to use flowery language, but try to convey it as simply as possible and in such a way where everyone can understand what I'm trying to say.
Subdued
Beta Fi blocked with Ne
I think the first one pretty much goes against what I've tried to do throughout this thread.Beta types are not inclined to enjoy discussions of personal experiences when the focus is on a person's own inner feelings, especially when described in a subdued way.
Beta types tend to be skeptical of another individual's potential for personal growth in terms of abilities and character, and dislike being the subject of such a discussion by others about themselves.
I am not skeptical about the potential for personal growth for other people. And that includes my own.
Also, I think it should be noted being the subject of a discussion by others about themselves is not the same thing (to me at least) as being the center of attention. I was just thinking about that over dinner, in fact before I read that. The discussion in this thread is communal. Being the center of attention to me is not communal. I am the topic of the thread, but that doesn't bother me like standing up in the middle of a crowd of people and proclaiming "HEY! LOOK OVER HERE. LOOKY WHAT I CAN DO!"
Beta Te blocked with Si
Hmm. No, the details of a process are very important to me moreso than overseeing the process's work. Sometimes I focus too much on the details and lose sight of process itself and the purpose, but the details are still very important to me.Beta types tend to look down on nuts-and-bolts, detailed work as a source of success, preferring to focus on "vision" and leadership.
D-SEI
This is me and my dual being scientific together
I was anticipating this based on the interaction between him and others in the thread (and other threads)
And my response is this:
The proof will be in the pudding. As long as I'm honest about myself the validity of what he says will evident by directly responding to his questions.
It is ultimately his opinion that he's offering and I'm not going to try to dissuade his opinion, but rather just matter-of-factly answer his questions. If he chooses to change his opinion, that is his prerogative.
I have no problem taking time to answer his questions, because I'm looking at just the questions themselves, not the person behind it. And it also allows me to consider the differing point of view and be able to determine whether or not what he says makes sense or not. EDIT: and if they can be applied to me.
I would rather withhold judgement about the validity of his statements until I consider each of the questions, respond and get the response back.
I prefer doing it this way because it is worth my time and effort. Even if it means what he says is not correct, at least I took the time to consider it, respond to it and rule it out.
Ok. I can see ENFp.
About positivism and negetivism:
POSITIVISM - NEGATIVISM
POZITIVIZM - NEGATIVIZM
Positivists (Extroverts from the I and III quadra, introverts from the II and IV quadra):
pozitivisty (ekstraverty I i III kvadr, introverty II i IV kvadr):
1. In situation they are in or situations that are possible positivists focus their thinking on a positive vision of the surrounding world, situations, possibilities, prospects.
2. In everyday life positivists are inclined to think of positive things that could result from situations as oppose to negative things that could result from them (For example moving is viewed as an opportunity to gain new acquaintances, friends and so on). This results in an optimistic attitude, but not naïve and avoidant of reality, possible failure and things that might go wrong.
3. Positives are better at managing positive situations (when opportunity presents itself). They are inclined to converts negative experiences into positive ones (Find the silver lining).
4. They speak of the positive more, negative moments they present in a positive background ("Yes, they are grave problems, but..." – and then continues to paint a positive picture). Conversations that are purely negative (Where the other person is stressing the impossibility of things looking up) often irritate positivists.
5. In the voice of positives one can detect positive intonations. If they are giving other people instructions they present them with "positivity keys" i.e. information on what to do in such situations (For example "You can call them only at a certain time")
Negativists (Introverts from the I and III quadra, extraverts from the II and IV quadra):
Negativisty (introverty I i III kvadr, ekstraverty II i IV kvadr):
1. In situations negativists focus their attention to aspects of the situation that are insufficient, which can be treated as negative foreshortening of prospects, events, situations.
2. In everyday life negativists are inclined to think of negative things that could result from situations as oppose to positive ones (For example moving means losing establishes supports and so on). Negativists have an attitude of focusing on negative aspects and avoiding them (For instance "positive" development of a situation is due to the fact that nothing bad happened)
3. Negativists are better at coping with negative, bad experiences. They allocate negative parts of a situation and deal with them.
4. negativists are more inclined to speak about negative aspects of something. Positive aspects are presented on a negative background ("Well, that is good, but..." – and continues to paint a negative picture). Negativists are irritated by "excessively positive" attitudes (When another person "forgets" to mention or even consider negative aspects of something)
5. In speech of negativists there are many negative formulations, intonations (Hints, subtext and so on). For example: "Negative experiences are not always necessary, they're not necessary to me" "It will be an occasion to do absolutely nothing" "I cannot say that is true" etc. If giving instructions they focus on things to avoid, what not to do (For example "If you call them at such a time it will be pointless")
Note
Previous researches into this attitude were generally reduced to measuring positive/negative in the "everyday" sense of the word. In our opinion, these attitudes are a consequence of a deeper mechanism: one group of people perceives properties of a given situation and describes how they pertaining to themselves (Positivists) while the other group distances themselves from them. Positivists describe a subject, individual, phenomenon, attempting to describe it through characteristics inherent in the object, while negativists focus on properties that are not inherent to the object. The surface impression of optimism and pessimism as hallmarks of these two attitudes occurs because of this. In reality both the positivist and negativist can posses these two attitudes and talk equally of things pertaining to either" good" or "bad" things, the difference being in attitude, the form in which they present that stuff (For example "I cannot say that you are not lacking" – negativism, and "You are lacking" – positivism).
Hypothesis
The difference in approaching experiences between positivists and negativists arises because positivists are better at remembering, noticing events occurring because of something happening, when something happening was better, not better, when something happening was inadequate and so on while negativists are better at remembering, noticing when something not occurring was better or not better or insufficient and so on (Generally negativists are better at remembering events that happen because of an absence of something happening and are inclined (Prefer) to draw conclusion from that type of information).
Examples
Positivists:
"In order to trust one must first mistrust" "I always believe in a positive outcome. In that sense I will most likely tell you something relating to a positive outcome. I do not speak of possible failure, why should I bring people down with things that haven't even happened?" "I'm irritated when people only see "mucks" (Inadequacies) in others" "I try not to give instructions, but when in contradiction, I avoid instructions like: Do not go! Do not do! Do not..." "Even a negative experience is positive" "I start off by trusting people and then work from there"
Negativists:
"my first reaction to everything is "What ever it is I'm sure it's not more important then this"" "I do not speak about good" "One must take into account all the negative possibilities. It goes without saying that people can always surprise you" "If the mood is too good - there is something fishy about it" "In my instructions I always give people "negative" moments. I foresee those negative moments so I try to provide people with awareness of them" " People in general are good, but never the less it's still better to be cautious when dealing with them" "When they write textbooks, mathematical or similar, they always construct proofs "by method of contradiction"" "I often bring bad news" "When asked "How's it going?" I answer "It's all bad"" "Well, if I wanted to enjoy myself I wouldn't go to a restaurant nor a casino...well, most probably somewhere in nature..." "Then there will be a building, but this does not concern you. After that you will see a street leading away from your path, do not go down it, but continue. After that you will go around the next building, there will be two entrances through which you will not go in"
INTp
sx/sp
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