Question for LIIs-INTjs: do you dislikes SEEs?

[Gilly]

it's the whole infantile-caregiver romance styles they're referring to... my father is a 48 year old man getting his PhD and a vp in a good company. He is not immature, but he does expect his ass to be wiped.

Si-seeking is infantile. I know what I'm talking about.

All I'm saying is that not all infantile types like to have their asses wiped, so don't pin it on that. Pin it on him wanting his ass wiped. I know SLEs who would like their asses wiped, but they aren't infantile, now are they?

[aestrivex]

it's the whole infantile-caregiver romance styles they're referring to... my father is a 48 year old man getting his PhD and a vp in a good company. He is not immature, but he does expect his ass to be wiped.

Si-seeking is infantile. I know what I'm talking about.

All I'm saying is that not all infantile types like to have their asses wiped, so don't pin it on that. Pin it on him wanting his ass wiped. I know SLEs who would like their asses wiped, but they aren't infantile, now are they?

regardless of whether or not you're correct, you're doing a poor job of communicating and explaining this idea.

[crazedrat]

as usual, the confusion is on what exactly it means to demand your ass be wiped. The phrase was written by a gamma, and a gamma seems to understand. an alpha does not.
It is impossible for the meaning to be off, only the word use and interpretation to be poorly refined.

[Creepy-bg]

as usual, the confusion is on what exactly it means to demand your ass be wiped. The phrase was written by a gamma, and a gamma seems to understand. an alpha does not.
It is impossible for the meaning to be off, only the word use and interpretation to be poorly refined.

STFU

[crazedrat]

UFTS.
Neutralized

[liveandletlive]

how about we remedy this situation by all of the alphas and gammas in this thread stand in a circle. everyone turn to your right and drop your pants. now everyone bend over. Now wipe the person's ass that is in your face. We all win

I probably should've prefaced that description by first saying grab a towel or something

[Creepy-bg]

how about we remedy this situation by all of the alphas and gammas in this thread stand in a circle. everyone turn to your right and drop your pants. now everyone bend over. Now wipe the person's ass that is in your face. We all win

I probably should've prefaced that description by first saying grab a towel or something

what an image

[Exodus]

What I find to be somewhat interesting is that I rarely see a post from an LII or ESE complaining about an SEE or ILI parent, but I do see my fair share of posts of ILI and SEE complaining or talking about their negative relationship with LII or ESE parents. It almost makes me wonder how correctly these parents have been typed, because some of the greatest amount of misunderstandings of Alphas seem to come from people with these experiences.

Or Gammas just whine more?

[Logos]

What I find to be somewhat interesting is that I rarely see a post from an LII or ESE complaining about an SEE or ILI parent, but I do see my fair share of posts of ILI and SEE complaining or talking about their negative relationship with LII or ESE parents. It almost makes me wonder how correctly these parents have been typed, because some of the greatest amount of misunderstandings of Alphas seem to come from people with these experiences.

Or Gammas just whine more?

Of course it is also possible that the whining members of Gamma are not really Gamma to begin with.

[Mediator Kam]

What I find to be somewhat interesting is that I rarely see a post from an LII or ESE complaining about an SEE or ILI parent, but I do see my fair share of posts of ILI and SEE complaining or talking about their negative relationship with LII or ESE parents. It almost makes me wonder how correctly these parents have been typed, because some of the greatest amount of misunderstandings of Alphas seem to come from people with these experiences.

Or Gammas just whine more?

Of course it is also possible that the whining members of Gamma are not really Gamma to begin with.

great song name: Gammas don't whine

[Exodus]

What I find to be somewhat interesting is that I rarely see a post from an LII or ESE complaining about an SEE or ILI parent, but I do see my fair share of posts of ILI and SEE complaining or talking about their negative relationship with LII or ESE parents. It almost makes me wonder how correctly these parents have been typed, because some of the greatest amount of misunderstandings of Alphas seem to come from people with these experiences.

Or Gammas just whine more?

Of course it is also possible that the whining members of Gamma are not really Gamma to begin with.

Let's just assume for the sake of argument that they are.

[Mediator Kam]

What I find to be somewhat interesting is that I rarely see a post from an LII or ESE complaining about an SEE or ILI parent, but I do see my fair share of posts of ILI and SEE complaining or talking about their negative relationship with LII or ESE parents. It almost makes me wonder how correctly these parents have been typed, because some of the greatest amount of misunderstandings of Alphas seem to come from people with these experiences.

Or Gammas just whine more?

Of course it is also possible that the whining members of Gamma are not really Gamma to begin with.

Let's just assume for the sake of argument that they are.

Therefore, Gammas whine more under that logic.

[Exodus]

Exactly. It's not circular at all.

To be fair, I've always had more problems with my ISTj mother than my ENTj father, so Logos has a good point.

[Mediator Kam]

Exactly. It's not circular at all.

To be fair, I've always had more problems with my ISTj mother than my ENTj father, so Logos has a good point.

How so? Did the ISTp behavior of not caring much affect your relations with her?

[Exodus]

Huh? I think it could be the fact that sensing-static/intuitive-static is a conflicting relation (via Se-Ne) but static-dynamic isn't. I was just saying that opposite quadra relations aren't always as bad as people make them out to be.

[liveandletlive]

i think both of our quadras complain but in different ways... gammas are known for making improvements, and criticisms, etc. so we may complain about something not working efficiently because it could be working well if ______ was implemented. However, alphas complain a lot i think as a consequence of ... u need to let the emotions out. that's just my experiences with both quadras though.

[Creepy-bg]

i think both of our quadras complain but in different ways... gammas are known for making improvements, and criticisms, etc. so we may complain about something not working efficiently because it could be working well if ______ was implemented. However, alphas complain a lot i think as a consequence of ... u need to let the emotions out. that's just my experiences with both quadras though.

lol no... we're trying to improve and criticize different things is all, we don't just do it to "let the emotions" out anymore than Gammas do

[liveandletlive]

It could be just my interactions with them but i feel like they complain all the time which can get really annoying.

It's interesting that someone notices this, because it is very, very much characteristic of us. Ti-/Fe- is all about complaining about your current situation. Hitta has pointed this out before and got shouted down for it, which is tragic because this is such an important thing to know to understand the alpha quadra in full.

coming from http://the16types.info/forums/viewto...er=asc&start=0

[Logos]

It could be just my interactions with them but i feel like they complain all the time which can get really annoying.

It's interesting that someone notices this, because it is very, very much characteristic of us. Ti-/Fe- is all about complaining about your current situation. Hitta has pointed this out before and got shouted down for it, which is tragic because this is such an important thing to know to understand the alpha quadra in full.

coming from http://the16types.info/forums/viewto...er=asc&start=0

Coming from labcoat in support of hitta:

[Creepy-bg]

It could be just my interactions with them but i feel like they complain all the time which can get really annoying.

It's interesting that someone notices this, because it is very, very much characteristic of us. Ti-/Fe- is all about complaining about your current situation. Hitta has pointed this out before and got shouted down for it, which is tragic because this is such an important thing to know to understand the alpha quadra in full.

coming from http://the16types.info/forums/viewto...er=asc&start=0

OMG LABCOAT SAID IT, IT MUST BE TRUE!!!

complaining about your current situation (let's call it ) is the act of critisizing and attempting to improve it (maybe with outside help), is it not?

[liveandletlive]

i think criticizing and complaining are 2 different things. Yes, they may often go hand in hand but not always. I think that the example you are pointing out would be considered complaining.

[Creepy-bg]

i think criticizing and complaining are 2 different things. Yes, they may often go hand in hand but not always. I think that the example you are pointing out would be considered complaining.

what fucking ever... nit pick much?

[Logos]

i think criticizing and complaining are 2 different things. Yes, they may often go hand in hand but not always. I think that the example you are pointing out would be considered complaining.

And I think that you are trying to hold on to and maintain your lost cause sinking ship negative beliefs about Alpha.

[Creepy-bg]

i think criticizing and complaining are 2 different things. Yes, they may often go hand in hand but not always. I think that the example you are pointing out would be considered complaining.

I suppose you'd say that when a gamma bitches about some thing that's "critisizing" and not complaining?

[liveandletlive]

i think criticizing and complaining are 2 different things. Yes, they may often go hand in hand but not always. I think that the example you are pointing out would be considered complaining.

what fucking ever... nit pick much?

ummm yeah- I'm kinda detail-oriented... kinda works in with the whole sensing thing...

[liveandletlive]

i think criticizing and complaining are 2 different things. Yes, they may often go hand in hand but not always. I think that the example you are pointing out would be considered complaining.

And I think that you are trying to hold on to and maintain your lost cause sinking ship negative beliefs about Alpha.

- first of all, im not trying to convinve Alphas that they suck... we can all imagine how successful that would be.
- secondly, i'll think what i think is right no matter what
- thirdly, i generated this effing thread for you guys to give SEEs some feedback!

[Creepy-bg]

i think criticizing and complaining are 2 different things. Yes, they may often go hand in hand but not always. I think that the example you are pointing out would be considered complaining.

what fucking ever... nit pick much?

ummm yeah- I'm kinda detail-oriented... kinda works in with the whole sensing thing...

wrong, that's just OCD... I'm a sensor too and I'm not detail-oriented in the slightest

[liveandletlive]

i think criticizing and complaining are 2 different things. Yes, they may often go hand in hand but not always. I think that the example you are pointing out would be considered complaining.

I suppose you'd say that when a gamma bitches about some thing that's "critisizing" and not complaining?

you need to back up what u say with examples and you have to realize the motivation behind these things. Gammas are the third quadra, known for criticizing and making improvements on things that were first put into place (usually by Alphas, the first quadra). When gammas "bitch" it is about criticizing in order to make something better. When Alphas "bitch" it usually comes off as complaining because of / almost like "help me!" (also works into the whole caregiver-infantile style). With Gammas it's ____ sucks so you can "help yourself!" (also works into the whole agressor-victim style).

[Creepy-bg]

i think criticizing and complaining are 2 different things. Yes, they may often go hand in hand but not always. I think that the example you are pointing out would be considered complaining.

And I think that you are trying to hold on to and maintain your lost cause sinking ship negative beliefs about Alpha.

- first of all, im not trying to convinve Alphas that they suck... we can all imagine how successful that would be.
- secondly, i'll think what i think is right no matter what
- thirdly, i generated this effing thread for you guys to give SEEs some feedback!

- you spelled convince wrong
- if you're going to think what you think is right no matter what than what's the point of this thread? it's not like we'd be able to convince you of your wrongs
- you are getting feedback

[Creepy-bg]

i think criticizing and complaining are 2 different things. Yes, they may often go hand in hand but not always. I think that the example you are pointing out would be considered complaining.

I suppose you'd say that when a gamma bitches about some thing that's "critisizing" and not complaining?

you need to back up what u say with examples and you have to realize the motivation behind these things. Gammas are the third quadra, known for criticizing and making improvements on things that were first put into place (usually by Alphas, the first quadra). When gammas "bitch" it is about criticizing in order to make something better. When Alphas "bitch" it usually comes off as complaining because of / almost like "help me!" (also works into the whole caregiver-infantile style). With Gammas it's ____ sucks so you can "help yourself!" (also works into the whole agressor-victim style).

*sigh*

what's your point? it seems like all you're doing now is "complaining" (which works into the whole aggressor-victim style) about alpha style "criticizing" (which works into the whole caregiver-infantile style).

[liveandletlive]

i think criticizing and complaining are 2 different things. Yes, they may often go hand in hand but not always. I think that the example you are pointing out would be considered complaining.

I suppose you'd say that when a gamma bitches about some thing that's "critisizing" and not complaining?

you need to back up what u say with examples and you have to realize the motivation behind these things. Gammas are the third quadra, known for criticizing and making improvements on things that were first put into place (usually by Alphas, the first quadra). When gammas "bitch" it is about criticizing in order to make something better. When Alphas "bitch" it usually comes off as complaining because of / almost like "help me!" (also works into the whole caregiver-infantile style). With Gammas it's ____ sucks so you can "help yourself!" (also works into the whole agressor-victim style).

*sigh*

what's your point? it seems like all you're doing now is "complaining" (which works into the whole aggressor-victim style) about alpha style "criticizing" (which works into the whole caregiver-infantile style).

u have to reverse the "complaining" and "criticizing" haha... im not sure i have a point other than just clarifying how and why both of us "bitch"

[Creepy-bg]

i think criticizing and complaining are 2 different things. Yes, they may often go hand in hand but not always. I think that the example you are pointing out would be considered complaining.

I suppose you'd say that when a gamma bitches about some thing that's "critisizing" and not complaining?

you need to back up what u say with examples and you have to realize the motivation behind these things. Gammas are the third quadra, known for criticizing and making improvements on things that were first put into place (usually by Alphas, the first quadra). When gammas "bitch" it is about criticizing in order to make something better. When Alphas "bitch" it usually comes off as complaining because of / almost like "help me!" (also works into the whole caregiver-infantile style). With Gammas it's ____ sucks so you can "help yourself!" (also works into the whole agressor-victim style).

*sigh*

what's your point? it seems like all you're doing now is "complaining" (which works into the whole aggressor-victim style) about alpha style "criticizing" (which works into the whole caregiver-infantile style).

u have to reverse the "complaining" and "criticizing" haha... im not sure i have a point other than just clarifying how and why both of us "bitch"

either way... My only real criticism is that I think you shouldn't complain so much

[Creepy-bg]

I'm going to sleep... it's been nice meeting you!

[liveandletlive]

I'm going to sleep... it's been nice meeting you!

haha thanks u 2!

[crazedrat]

The issue really comes down to what you consider complaining; and if you shift perspectives, a statement pertaining to negative states of affairs, made from a position of neutrality, and observation, easily becomes a statement undermining a state of affairs.. this occurs depending on whether you are invested in the affairs.

[liveandletlive]

The issue really comes down to what you consider complaining; and if you shift perspectives, a statement pertaining to negative states of affairs, made from a position of neutrality, and observation, easily becomes a statement undermining a state of affairs.. this occurs depending on whether you are invested in the affairs.

good summary crazed haha i love how this thread started off as constructive criticism from LIIs and ended up a discussion of criticism and complaining for the alpha and gamma quadras... ohhhh socionics i heart thee and thy ability to relate to everything.

[Blaze]

why don't ya'll just step off? wtf? do you really think that stuff like butt wiping is respectful and facilitates understanding? check your vocabulary n00bs. check your power motivations, while you're at it. without LII's and alpha, we wouldn't have any inventions that work and we'd still be living in the stone age. so put that in your fucking Se's pipes and smoke it.

ok now BG, where's that bong? lol

[liveandletlive]

why don't ya'll just step off? wtf? do you really think that stuff like butt wiping is respectful and facilitates understanding? check your vocabulary n00bs. check your power motivations, while you're at it. without LII's and alpha, we wouldn't have any inventions that work and we'd still be living in the stone age. so put that in your fucking Se's pipes and smoke it.

ok now BG, where's that bong? lol

wow that statement is probably the most blatant display of / values i've ever seen i feel like i'm on a different planet over here...

[aestrivex]

i'm gradually coming to the conclusion myself that most of what blaze posts is spam.

[Expat]

do you really think that stuff like butt wiping is respectful and facilitates understanding?

Are you against butt wiping ?