Dexter (TV series)

[Gilly]

As far as the "we're in this together thing," he doesn't seem genuine about it, in a way that would suggest beta values imo.

Yeah, I know what you mean...shit like stating explicitly "I see who you are, Dexter." That would just be sort of "obvious" with Betas, not need to be stated, because it would be felt.

Sure, he has ideals and such, but the fervor and drive and allying with Dexter seem more aimed at indulging his shadow side, promoting his own sense of justice for megalomaniacal glory and ultimately establishing complete control over the situation.

Yeah...I was thinking about it being a "shadow" thing for him, as in he's going through some crazy shit, his brother dies, this chick is fucking with his career; basically he's under a lot of stress so he does things he might not under normal circumstances. Also I think there's something to be said for Prado's sense of justice being pro-Fi and anti-Ti: he complains about "the system," how people get let off on bureaucratic loopholes (exactly the kind of shit Betas are liable to exploit), and is more interested in killing to promote personal ideals about how society should be. Also there's the whole deal with him hating Dexter's rigid code, wanting to just get things done; very anti-Ti.

And I agree about Si-ESxj for the actor.

Yeah, I'd lean ESE-Si>LSE for him; reminds me of this ESE-Fe cocksucker my sister worked with, he was the conductor of an orchestra that was performing one of her and her husband's multi-media projects. Total prick, saw right through the guy the moment I met him; big 3w2 ego, sucking up all the small-town fame, making it out like this place was his little world and they were oh-so welcome in it. I mean, he was nice, but he was a fucking snake.

[DividedsGhost]

Let's try this

dexter: INTp
Doakes: ESTp
Lundy: ISTj
Deb: ENFj
Angel: ISFp
Lila: ESFp
Rita: ISFj
spanish lieutenant lady: ESTj
harry: ISTj
Paul: ESTp

Any questions? Disagreements?

[jughead]

Yeah dexter is Ti

[Sirena]

Dexter is ISTj.

[Beautiful sky]

lol I buy Dexter being ISTj

[April]

I agree with Dexter as ISTj. I think Rita was INFj.

[discojoe]

I agree with Dexter as ISTj. I think Rita was INFj.

Ya.

[DividedsGhost]

Yeah dexter is Ti

Dexter is ISTj.

lol I buy Dexter being ISTj

I agree with Dexter as ISTj. I think Rita was INFj.

Ya.

LOL guys.

Well, before I begin let me first put this into perspective. I have seen every episode of the show in its entirety and have a good real-world knowledge of most of the types. I have thought a lot about this since I really find Dexter appealing to me. The only types I don't believe I have ever met are INFp, INTj, and INFj. I'm going to count myself as an INTp I have met despite believing I have not ever met any. Because of this, I'll limit my argument to those areas where those three types might apply.

And I will state that as a reference for the INTj type, I have in mind L (from Death Note), Brian (from Breakfast Club), Mr Darcy (Pride and Prejudice), as well as Gaius Baltar (Battlestar Galactica) and Simon Tam (Firefly). For INFp the only fictional character I can come up with and be certain is Folken Fanel (The Vision of Escaflowne). For INFj I have Chihiro Ogino (Spirited Away).

So looking at my list

dexter: INTp #ToBeDefended
Doakes: ESTp
Lundy: ISTj
Deb: ENFj
Angel: ISFp
Lila: ESFp
Rita: ISFj #ToBeDefended
spanish lieutenant lady: ESTj
harry: ISTj
Paul: ESTp

Now from the above I am going to take the typings that aren't shown as being defended as fact since I am very sure of their correctness. So let me first start with the supposition that Dexter is ILI. To do this I will first start from the beginning of the show with Harry.

First off, Harry and Dexter would form a relation of Benefit. Being a police officer Harry is aware of what Dexter is and decides to help him forming the Benefit relationship where Harry is the Benefactor and Dexter is the Beneficiary. He sees Dexter as needing his help and is willing to do so and Dexter understands and accepts that he needs Harry's help. Later in the show Dexter starts to learn why Harry committed suicide and the flaws that Harry had and starts to realize he over-evaluated Harry and the ethical code he adopted, putting into question many times whether or not he should continue with the ethical philosophy Harry created for him. But he always ends up putting the pieces together and realizing his ethical philosophy is intended for the best.

If we assume now that Dexter is LSI, then we would have an identical relation forming between Harry and Dexter. But do they really seem to come of as identicals?? Harry clearly sees himself in a position greater than Dexter and wants and sees that he can help Dexter. And if we assume LII, then we would have comparative relations. Do they seem to come off very similar and have the same interests, thoughts, and discussions? I don't think so and it's clear Harry considers himself to be in a superior position to Dexter which Dexter gladly accepts. In a comparative relation, when one partner feels superior to another, conflicts and disagreements are supposed to appear because each is using an opposing creative-function with an opposing PoLR function. Comparative does not make one ounce of sense to me.

Second, Debra and Dexter form a relation of Supervision. Debra is always watching over Dexter and trying to help fix flaws that she sees in him. She truly sees him as incomplete and thinks she can help complete him. The few times that Dexter tries to please her, she ends up unsatisfied or later reverts back to the same position of seeing flaws and thinking she can help fix them.

If we assume now that Dexter is LII, then he would have a Semi-Duality relationship with Debra. Now honestly, I'm just not seeing that at all. Dexter hardly has anything to talk about with Debra and mostly prefers to keep his thoughts to himself and is very careful about what he does share and talk about with her.

Third, Dexter and Lila form a Duality. Both Dexter and Lila find it very easy to be around each other and were able to share themselves without trouble. With Lila we find Dexter actually getting out of his head with her Se when he decides to sleep with her. We also see her encouraging his Se suggestive function by persuading him to confront the man who killed his mother with the chainsaw, in a manner that was strictly Se, as opposed to Dexter's usually covert ops kills where Se is enjoyed but not as a direct confrontation or as a primary motivator. His Se is focused upon as a source of stimulation and finding new experiences. And Dexter seems to never feel overwhelmed by Se like an LII would. And further we see that Lila has no problem accepting and understanding Dexter's weak Se and Fi when she comforts him in the hotel room after meeting the chainsaw man.

Fourth, unfortunately Lila was a little crazy and didn't act prudently in trying to win Dexter over from Rita; this is where his Fi mobilizing really starts to shine. Dexter actually feels a sense of justice and vengeance in himself when Lila attempts to hurt the kids. Dexter is so angry that he more sporadically is willing to go to Paris to find Lila and kill her. He does however not subject her to the standard cold kill rooms that he normally creates, instead making it clear that this is more about justice and that he is in a hurry. We also start to see later with Trinity that Dexter starts to realize his Fi mobilizing function. He feels badly for the Trinity family and feels a sense of ethical disgust towards Trinity, something he didn't think was possible. Dexter has a very strong underlying Fi+Se bond with his family.

I'm just not seeing that with an LII. LIIs have Fi role function which generally means it comes off as a conscious decision that they decide upon after carefully weighing the information that they currently have about a situation. Their Se vulnerable function makes it hard for them to see any good that will come from confronting someone. For whatever reasons they view such activities as a waste of time or something that will hurt or frustrate them; an example of this would be Mr. Darcy in Pride and Prejudice with regards to Mr. Wickham. Mr. Darcy viewed his confrontations with Mr. Wickham in the past as humiliating and something that left him hurting, frustrated, and desiring of coldness to others as a way to not have such experiences again. His cold logical systems and explanations are his sword and shield. He is truly Se PoLR. Also LII has Fe suggestive. From what I understand about this is that Fe for them in everyday life is a formal chore that they fulfill with people. So to have the ability to 'play' with their Fe instead of having to 'direct it' is what they seek and enjoy. Play here will mean that they don't care if the Fe is sincere or not, as long as they are able to have fun with it.

Case for Rita being ISFj.

Well first I'm going to take it as fact that she is Fi leading. Then the question becomes is she Ne-creative or Se-creative? In order to remedy this I will refer to how she handled Paul. She kept her distance from him and made it very clear that she didn't want him in her life and often used a very harsh Se provoking manner on him to try to accomplish this. Of course this wouldn't exactly work and when Paul changed a bit her Ni mobilizing started telling her that she might have been wrong about Paul. She also uses Ni mobilizing on Dexter a couple times in the show when she believes he is a drug addict or sleeping with Lila. She is often seen worrying about whether or not she should consider the validity of an Ni connection and prefers to ignore rather than indulge, indicative of Ni mobilizing, unless absolutely sure. INFjs would be a lot more forgiving and very reluctant to use their Se PoLR seeing no good that could ever come from it. I really don't see a resemblance to her and Chihiro Ogin from Spirited Away.

So...any other thoughts?

[twizzlestix]

How well do you SLI's relate to Dexter?



My SLI boyfriend was blown away by how much he had in common with him.

It throws up a few interesting morality questions.

[silverchris9]

Reviving thread. I just watched the first season of Dexter on Netflix and it was incredible.

Anyway, the entire series, with the whole "Code of Harry" thing is an example of using Ti and Fe to compensate for lack of Fi.

Obviously, this is writ very large and archetypally. Dexter is not representative of any actual Fi-polr (that is, SLE =/= serial killer, AND Dexter isn't SLE, because it's hard to make an argument for him being extroverted... although extroversion =/= socially outgoing, especially if you have a good reason not to be...). But the concept of the series as a whole is representative of how, in theory, a complete lack of Fi (following the assumption that all individuals of all types have a rudimentary understanding of the most basic level of each function) could be compensated for by Ti (the "ethical" code of only killing killers) and Fe (the "act normal" code of performing the nice-guy role for others).

In order to further understand this, you have to separate the two aspects of Dexter's personality dysfunction. The first is his urge to kill. That isn't related to functions, and isn't really psychologically explored, although I have my personal theories as to how it is a side-effect of the second aspect.

The second aspect of Dexter's personality dysfunction is his inability to form human connection, or experience human emotion. This is the element that is related to functions. Not that Dexter, were he an actual human being, would be Fi-polr. Rather, the character as a whole is an archetype or ideogram of a person-with-no-Fi.

And how does that person cope? Two things.

First, there's Harry's very Ti code. Note that the code is very explicit, bypassing Dexter's lack of any real... gag reflex, lack of the inherent "that's bad" reaction. He doesn't need to rely on an internal, cloudy, vague but (for everyone else) omnipresent "sense of right and wrong." Instead, he can just rely on a set of rules. Why should he perform the set of rules? 'Cause Harry said so (Se + Ti). Now, I could argue that his assent to Harry's rules are a reflection of a fundamental internal morality that transcends functions, but that's not my point right now.

My point is that the Ti system supplants the Fi system. It performs the same task (keeping Dexter from killing innocents) but does not perform it well. It doesn't get the full thing at all. But it achieves the same end, right? I guess that just highlights how even with an extreme, complete lack of one function, all external aims can be accomplished; functions do not limit actions (although they do influence unconscious or non-considered actions). But they do produce a difference, a difference so deep that without one of the functions, a person is considered non-human.

Also, the Fe assists with the Fi problem. Dexter uses Fe (intentional manipulation of other's internal states through visual, auditory and other means) to produce the results of a person with internal feelings, without actually possessing those feelings himself. Harry's education is as much an education in Fe as it is in Ti. It's teaching an explicit code of rules, but also a method for achieving certain emotional responses.

The flashbacks to Harry Morgan are excellent because they represent an education in Ti and Fe. Dexter gets the Ti rules, and the Fe ways to get the desired emotional responses from others, while avoiding the Fi internal emotions and the implicit rules of how to relate to others.

Overall, the series is a fascinating exploration of tragedy. The tragedy is that Dexter is an incredibly decent person who also has uncontrollable urges to murder human beings. The question becomes how any goodness at all can co-exist with such evil. Dexter isn't interesting because he's a monster; like all great monsters, he's interesting because he's a monster and a man.

Also it taps into everybody's shadow shit, and one of the purposes of art is to touch on those elements of the self and its experience which we cannot directly contemplate in ourselves, but can contemplate and begin to comprehend when we see it mirrored in art. Not that everybody has some primordial urge to kill. But everyone does have a primordial urge towards some kind of evil, as much as we have a primordial yearning towards good.

In fact, it is in the exploration of that classic and never-ending struggle within mankind, the struggle between the desperately wicked heart and the being a little lower than the angels, between the quintessence of dust and God's great piece of work; that Dexter achieves whatever success it does achieve as a work of art. (Granted, like most TV shows, it's pretty bad art, except for the acting, which is fairly stellar. It's like we've traded good writing for good acting, and you can only have the two at the same time for three weeks when Elia Kazan is directing. And the psychological depth of the show is subpar--but it cuts to the quick and makes it plain: even if it never goes really in-depth into the mechanics of Dexter's mind, it puts him in situations that resonate with anybody: he fakes his way through life, finally someone---his brother---comes along that he doesn't have to fake for, but, tragedy strikes, he has to kill him).

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I don't know man.

Here's how I look at it. Alan Ball was a ****** that was made fun of in his suburban town for being bad at sports. So to get back at people and prove he could be a real man and get under people's skin just like how they got under his, he created the show Six Feet Under. And episodes like 'That's my dog' which features a gay man being sadistically tortured by a psychopath. But the gun in the mouth is a little too homoerotic and not actually violent for me to buy it. Maybe there is a thin, interesting line between violence and homoeroticsm? Nah. He just can't deal with the fact he was a ****** in a suburban town.

And he still really can't get over it.

So he moved to hollywood (aka the city where gay men live) and a big city (more fags, not much else) where the rest of the gay men live and it helped raised his fragile and crippling self-esteem. There the other gay man gave him power and strength, and a sense of belonging. But he still wasn't really satisfied. He wanted them to be kinder. Alan Ball will kill you if you're not kind enough. His protagonist characters are gay men struggling to be normal. But still gay. So he tried to write a show that unified gay and straight people.

I see right through you, you little ******. I'm a ****** too and I know one too. I know your techniques to get under people's skin because you couldn't catch or throw well and how you have to make art and then hide behind it because in real life you're this really soft male that I can plow through with my cock, you little homosexual male. I see right through yoooooooooou. come closer to me and give me a hug. You want everybody to be nice and respectful but you know that doesn't come without a price. Cuz they weren't nice to you when u tried to play sports WERE THEY ******?

Oh wait. He wasn't even behind Dexter was he? (Alan Ball) but the show has that same actor.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I refuse to get into dexter because I'm a pretentious art ****** and I don't like to like things that other people like. Everybody is talking about how awesome it is. Excuse me. Don't watch that jew ******'s creations and pay attention to MINE. All homosexual males are dying to be paid attention to for our creations.

He's just a jew that wants you to feel guilty for being a guyen so you buy the dvds. Well so am I. But at least I'm honest about it.

Shadow Smadow. There's probably no such thing. I think it's more simple than we let on. You know when you're doing a shady thing. Unless you have some brain disorder. But you knoooooow. Do you really need a tv show to tell you that? Honestly. I wouldn't listen to the gay men that write that drivel. They just want to get fisted everynight in their upper high class homes.

I think that's what dexter is really trying to pin point. There is no hiding it. You know you're doing wrong. You can't pretty up doing wrong. Like you think you can. It's gonna reveal itself to you, and the rest of the world. The hollywood elite already knows all the morally fucked up shit you get involved with. You can't hide it. You can't hide that in grayness. It gets uncovered. And then everybody talks about it. You're hit news.

pay attention to 16 types adventures not dexter. Cuz 16 types adventures is a little bit of everything. It's a little Xena, a little Buffy, a little Dexter, a little X-files. It doesn't reward you for your moral ambivalence. Instead it inspires you to make more clear cut choices!

[marooned]

Anyway, the entire series, with the whole "Code of Harry" thing is an example of using Ti and Fe to compensate for lack of Fi.

that's rather what i thought too though i kept going back and forth. i tend to see Dexter as LSI-like. but the problem i have with this is i tend to see most serial killer characters (like also patrick bateman in american psycho) as LSI, or at the very least devoid of any ethics (since they have no real feelings/emotional center usually). then i wonder about thinking of them as a type at all because it's like they're just missing something most everyone has (emotions, ethics, sentiments, empathy, etc.).

however that doesn't exactly apply with Dexter because he does have his code of conduct he follows, his laws, a substitute for a sense of ethics (which seems quite Ti to compensate for no Fi as you said). i haven't watched a lot of the show and maybe i was just conning myself (wanting to see something in the character that wasn't there) but i did think that some of his "principles" have ethical backing (such as not wanting to harm children) so i say that as a disclaimer to my statement about being devoid of "all emotion".

[silverchris9]

Also, some typings:

Dexter-LSI
Debra-SEE
Doakes-ESI (MOST ESI-y ESI in the history of ESIs)
Londy-LIE
Lila-EIE
Harry-LSI
Rita-EII (probably, although I would love for her to be a more compatible type for Dexter. SEI is also not a bad typing, but I see more EII in her, at least as far as season 2)
Rudy-Beta NF, probably IEI
Maria-SEE
Angel-ESE (I think an ESE without Ti in his/her life might fall for that crazy Oprah create your own reality crap. I mean, I saw that as an obstacle to the ESE typing, 'cause it sounds more N, especially Ni, but then I thought undualized ESE, and that makes more sense).

[silverchris9]

I'm absolutely obsessed with this show. It's unhealthy.

Anyway, Lila and Dexter are totally duals, and it's actually a great archetypal demonstration of EIE-LSI "romance styles." Lila is always the initiator. She deliberately provokes him emotionally and channels the emotion she aroused (pun intended) into sex. She always starts it emotionally, maybe even leads him to the bed, sometimes gives orders (he, being LSI, loves to give and receive clear instructions), but then he takes over. He's on top, he makes the physical things happen (he moves her, he flips her over, he whatevers). So the extrovert EIE remains the initiator. But then the Se-ego LSI takes control somewhat early in the process.

So the thing with Lila really turns into a case of character vs. personality. From a personality standpoint, Lila's perfect for him. She uses Ni to see into his character, and uses Fe affect/control/match his emotional temperature. And she has a fascination with inner darkness. She loves the roughness that he works so hard to hold at bay (the notion of self-control is a fascinating one in Dexter). I'm sure there's a part (or two) of Dexter that wants Lila, and I honestly thought for a second that Dexter was going to run off with Lila (but then he'd be hurting Cody, Astor, Rita, and Debra, and he can't do that 'cause he's desperately clinging to them as his only connection to human beings). But he really made the selfless, moral choice. If he were pure animal, no feelings (no "Ti moral code," which his brain gradually but naturally expands upon), he would run away with Lila and have great sex and kill people (and use her as a convenient scapegoat should he ever almost get caught again), and have someone to share his "dark side" with (this is a recurring theme in Dexter so far, him longing to connect with someone, or, rather, whether he will have an intense, almost violent connection through his "real" self, or a cooler, more "normal" connection through his "fake" self---and it's interesting, because the intense connection is dangerous for Dexter; the more intense the greater the possibility that he'll lose control, and that really is the permanent tension that underlies everything that happens in the show: is Dexter ever going to completely lose it and become a true killing machine).

But because he cares about other people, about having a connection with them, even about his duty to them, he doesn't choose what he wants, he chooses what fits with his perceived duty (and the underlying or implicit longing for emotional connection). He picks the moral option, even though it is non-ideal (Rita and Deb would both reject him if they knew). He has a rudimentary internal ethic.

The funny thing is, I wonder if he really would achieve human connection with Lila (or Rudy, for that matter). I don't think so. I think he would have someone to be inhuman with, but I don't think he would actually have real feelings for others. He'd have basic pain/pleasure reactions towards them: this brings me pleasure, therefore I guard it; this brings me pain, therefore I break it. And he'd probably defend either to the death, if he had run off with them (ooh, or Rudy AND Lila. Could you imagine that trifecta? I feel like they'd all be fighting over who got the kill. Also, they could be kick-ass spies). But he wouldn't ever have the kind of relationship to them that he has to Rita. With them, he'd be a thinking animal, and a very intellectual one at that. But he wouldn't be human.

Also, I have a new theory about Dexter. I wonder whether his "real" type (as in, what type he would have developed into had it not been for the whole horrific childhood accident thing) is SLI? That is, he undergoes severe trauma at an early age, leading to a deep and instinctive concern with bare needs and urges (sleep, food, survival, sex), and a corresponding focus on the "id" elements in his psyche. That is, his childhood trauma made the id elements in his psyche dominant over the ego elements. This helps explain why despite the fact that his "real" personality obviously fits Lila like a glove, he also has this basic preference for EII Rita. He sees in her the life that he lost/should have had not only in the "my dream is to be a normal person, without excitement" thing, but also in an unconscious psychological sense. So his expressed type remains LSI, but it is as a result of a psychological reordering caused by trauma. Not saying this is literally "what happened," just citing a place where the socionics model could potentially be expanded upon to increase explanatory power in a specific case.

In other news, while I hated Doakes in the first season (and I still think Erik King's performance was rather one-note, especially in the first season), he was a badass in the second season. Bad. Ass. SUPRISE, MOTHERFUCKA! They need to give him a cop movie. He needs to be Arnold Schwartzenegger's badass negro accomplice in Terminator 400 or whatever number we're on now. They need to do a third Bad Boys movie where he replaces Martin Lawrence ('cause Martin is annoying). LaGuerta is a much better actress than he is actor, though.

[Gilly]

My latest assessments:

Dexter: H-LSI-Se 6w5 sx/sp 6w5/3w4/1w9

Harry: D-ESE-Si 3w2 sp/so 3w2/8w9/5w6
Deb: C-EIE-Ni 6w7 sx/so 6w7/3w4/8w7
Rita: N-SEI-Fe 9w1 sp/sx 9w1/6w5/2w1 (actress is EII btw, made the same mistake initially; all her "Fi" is massively compensatory/integration to 3)
Rudy: D-ILE-Ne 7w8 sx/so 7w8/3w4/8w7
Doakes: D-ESI-Se 6w5 sp/sx 6w5/8w7/4w3
Lundi: N-ESE-Fe 1w2 sp/sx 1w2/3w4/5w6
Maria: D-EIE-Fe 3w2 sp/so 3w2/1w2/5w6
Angel: C-SEI-Fe 9w8 so/sx 9w8/6w7/2w1 (alternately N-SEE-Fi, 6w7 primary)
Lila: C-EIE-Ni 7w8 sx/sp 7w8/3w4/8w7
Trinity: N-LSE-Te 1w2 sp/so 1w2/3w2/8w9

[Gilly]

And yeah, Doakes is the tits.

Bateman is also LSI, albeit Ti sub and 3w2 so/sp primary (probably 3w2/6w7/1w2). Not all serial killers are LSI, just the fucking awesome ones.

[d1ffe7]

God this show is just great. I've seen every episode, season 1-5. I never do that, but having showtime helps.
Has anyone seen the most recent season?
How would you type Lumen?

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I'm just now starting to get into Dexter, still on the first five episodes of Season One. Anyway here are my typings so far: (Feel free to vehemently disagree with me all you want but it's my opinion and I'm stickin' to it nyah nyah!)

Dexter: IEI-Ni 3w4 sp/sx

Dexter is very strrrng/nick-ish on how he operates/functions (who also gets banned a lot on the forums for his Dexter-like behavior), has a complex inner world. Is always searching to understand himself via his internal processes. Gilly said EIE but I think his true type is a very "unhealthy" IEI. Going on serial killings/murderous rampages for people who 'deserve it' is a very dark IEI thing to do.

Debra: IEI-Fe 6w5 so/sx

She has a big heart, like we all know IEIs tend to have, but also is interested in appearing tough and 'SLE dual-like' to the outside world, of course she fails miserably at it, really- but it's there. She gets publically humiliated in social situations, but she still manages to prove herself to those in power. This is a very IEI-like trait.

Doakes: LSE-Te 8w7 sp/so

An annoying, impulsive person that has an EJ temperament, just yells at people a lot. Acts like a stereotypical angry black man and I don't know....along with Maria they are my least favorite characters. And making him get beat up or 'punished' for sleeping with somebody's wife or whatever that lame subplot was, isn't really enough for the writers to make me like him. Just like they couldn't make me like Spike just by having the Ubervamp beat him up a lot.

Maria: LSE-Si 3w4 so/sp

A corporate climber ass-kisser, similar to Doakes but the female version and a different subtype IMO, but they both share identical moments in my opinion. Also she clearly has a conflicting relationship with Debra. If she was esfp she wouldn't obviously be doing everything that looks good for her own image and she's waaaaaay too career focused to be that type as well. I don't know. I just wish the writers wouldn't make her out to be such a snake-y bitch one moment and the next do something that makes me sympathize with her.


Rita: IEE-Ne 1w9 sp/sx

A clear delta enfp imo, reminds me so much of Slacker Mom and even Galen with the sort of sympathy/empathy she has with everybody. This also explains why she's a good match for Dexter, as enfp is the 4th best relationship for an infp- and since she's in a conflicting quadra to Dexter, and since they're both damaged, so all that added together and she's just safe and distant (but not too distant) enough for Dexter to be in a relationship, and still appear normal for the outside world. She's the perfect type for his cover, really. ((Dexter always seems really guarded that Debra is gonna find him out cuz they're both the same type I think, and he obviously couldn't trust his conflictors either.))

Angel: SEI-Fe 9w8 so/sx

I agree that he's an SEI, I like him a lot, seems laid-back and cool (and he's cute too lol). Reminds me of bionicgoat somewhat.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Anyway here's my main opinion of the show:

I can't see what the hype is about this show to me. It's like trying too hard or something and I'm honestly bored to death. I just wish it had more campy gay man-ish moments or something. Idk honestly it's not even really getting under my skin anymore, the first episode kinda made me go 'oooh' but now I'm just bored.

Does it get any better? Because I'm kinda bored of this stuff. It doesn't really compare to my Xena. =/

And Dexter is a boring character. He's not relateable but he's not like totally dark either. He's so 'in the middle' though that it's boring. I can sympathize with him and his motives to a large extent, but it's just BORING. I think 99% of the world's population feels like Dexter.... but it seems sorta dreary without much of a payoff or something. I just would be having a lot more fun if Dexter was truly evil, and working his way from the inside of the system: Now *that* would actually be interesting. And very realistic, because we all know there are plenty of real people in the world that are doing just that.

And they shouldn't stereotypically make 'molesting and killing kids' the epitome form of evil either. It's too boring and obvious.

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

Dexter: IEI-Ni 3w4 sp/sx

Dexter is very strrrng/nick-ish on how he operates/functions (who also gets banned a lot on the forums for his Dexter-like behavior), has a complex inner world. Is always searching to understand himself via his internal processes. Gilly said EIE but I think his true type is a very "unhealthy" IEI. Going on serial killings/murderous rampages for people who 'deserve it' is a very dark IEI thing to do.

ok so ,are you guys sure about not just wanting to relate to kick-ass fictional characters?
Besides, 1)isn't "revenge" connected to crazy ESIs ? work the stereotypes.
2)Dexter is j as fahk and not an Ip with SPD .Plus,if you don't want to do disorder talking ,seriously,where do you see the Fe?
3)Dexter would not "leave traces" on a forum let alone get banned.He does not look like your typical introvert who desires to "shine" on a forum because he/she cannot do it irl.
4)he's gamma>beta.LIE is possible.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Well you're taking the comparison too far or something, I just meant how they think sounds similiar (and plus their body language), of course Dexter isn't stoopid enough to leave an internet trail.

Well I don't know if he's not IEI then, I say he's ENFj. But remember, all introverts have deliberate actions not just 'judging' ones.

He does not look like your typical introvert who desires to "shine" on a forum because he/she cannot do it irl.

lol I don't think all introverts are like this at all. Plenty of introverts are extremely successful 'in the real world.' I can't tell if that was a stab at me, or nick though. Or IEIs in general. Or all of the above.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

ok so ,are you guys sure about not just wanting to relate to kick-ass fictional characters?

Not at all, because I don't find Dexter bad-ass at all. I find him rather boring, and overly relateable. He seemed bad-ass in the first episode but after that I wasn't impressed.

[Gilly]

Dexter: LSI-Se 6w5 sx/sp
Debra: EIE-Ni 6w7 sx/so
Rita: EII-Fi 2w1 sp/sx
Doakes: ESI-Se 8w7 sp/sx (tough call on this one, but he's not Te dom; Gammas are the ones who are overly wary of Betas, anyways...Deltas just act like they don't trust anyone, but in reality they trust everyone, 4tehlulz)

What on earth gave you the idea that Comparative is "the 4th best relationship?" It's one of the 4 worst, lol.

[Gilly]

Oh, and Michael C. Hall is IEI-Ni, probably the source of your Nick vibes. The character is Ti dominant as FUUUUCK though.

[Gilly]

Timewaster if you think Dexter is a Gamma you need your head checked. Everything about the character and the show is Beta Ti.

[Absurd]

Timewaster if you think Dexter is a Gamma you need your head checked. Everything about the character and the show is Beta Ti.

You mean timewaster is Beta ?

[Gilly]

You mean timewaster is Beta ?

The fuck if I know.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Well I just meant the ip-ep temperment works well even if they are in conflicting quadras.

Does the show get any better? Idk there's supposed to be an episode with some sort of evil shrink coming up. Sounds interesting, I think I'll watch that. I loooove evil psychologists.

[Gilly]

What do you mean "get any better?" Dexter is fucking succulent.

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

lol I don't think all introverts are like this at all. Plenty of introverts are extremely successful 'in the real world.' I can't tell if that was a stab at me, or nick though. Or IEIs in general. Or all of the above.

yeah that was a bit unfortunate.def not a stab

[DividedsGhost]

These were the types I came up with a long while ago when I first was introduced to this theory, so some of it I have changed my mind about and realize was wrong

dexter: INTp
Doakes: ESTp
Lundy: ISTj
Deb: ENFj
Angel: ISFp
Lila: ESFp
Rita: ISFj
spanish lieutenant lady: ESTj
harry: ISTj
Paul: ESTp

I'd say the pretty unquestionable typings seem to be (in order of lesser questionable to more questionable)
Debra: EIE
Quinn: LSI
La Guerta: LSE
Paul: SLE
Angel: SEI
Harry: LSI (this one seems to be accepted, but I feel they don't show enough of his character to decide of cognitive orientation)

You think Dexter would be the easiest to type, but he's such a complex character that it's really hard to go with any typing. He molds himself with relative ease into all of his situations and is able to calmly deal with just about any situation while showing almost no PoLR. He has the methodicalness of a Ti dom, but none of the Fe dual-seeking (just uses Fe well when he feels he needs to); he has the insight, instinct, and depth of almost all the IP types, except SEI, and has all their strengths. I'd say he's definitely not an EJ type or an EP type, but other than that...? I mean I know Ni is associated with conscientiousness and that's actually why I originally typed as ILI when I first joined, but I've learned it doesn't quite work that way. Ni's association with Se seems to be one of competition and conquering, rather than conscientiousness.

So I don't know...but if I had to choose between Ni-Se and Ne-Si, I would definitely go with Ni-Se and with an IP or IJ type. So...
ILI
IEI
LSI
SLE
would appear to be the only choices I think I would ever choose from if asked to choose a type. As of right now, I think I might go with a normalizing SLE. Actually I guess out of all those PoLRs (Fe, Te, Ne, and Fi), Fi is probably the only one that would suit him, eh?

Edit: I guess Ne PoLR could fit too going from the definition of Ne-PoLR off wikisocion, if that's accurate.

[Gilly]

Huh? Quinn is SLE-Ti to the max. LaGuerta is either EIE or SEE, I lean SEE.

Paul is EIE, IMO.

Harry seems LSIish in the whole dictating rules thing, but my tentative typing of him,. in light of the whole series and his archetypal role in Dexter's life, is ESE-Si.

[DividedsGhost]

Huh? Quinn is SLE-Ti to the max. LaGuerta is either EIE or SEE, I lean SEE.

Paul is EIE, IMO.

Harry seems LSIish in the whole dictating rules thing, but my tentative typing of him,. in light of the whole series and his archetypal role in Dexter's life, is ESE-Si.

So you think Debra and LaGuerta would be identicals?

I don't know, I thought LaGuerta's hidden agenda was pretty stereotypical of Ne perfection. She has that I'm never wrong, you're wrong, and here's why thing about her and a very Te-directive, I don't give a shit about feelings, approach with her work. We probably won't change our minds, but how do you see Se hidden agenda in her?

Quinn could be SLE. I prefer LSI from a perceived Ni hidden agenda. He was always suspicious of Dexter, ever since he met him and didn't seem to trust anything about him, not even the meanings of his dialogues with him. This might change with the next season though, judging from the end of the last season. But he hired that detective to watch Dexter on what was considered more of an outlandish hunch in a dead case (Ne-PoLR?) and obsessed with pursuing it to its details and only relented when he knew it would hurt his relationship with Debra.

But isn't Fe hidden-agenda more of the salesman mask that Fe-HA plays to be liked in some way? That one guy (cars salesman) Dexter kills portrayed it perfectly, I thought. But it doesn't have to be a tool to use someone or sell them junk, but just to be liked. SLEs seem to complain if people are standoffish and unsociable; I think it makes them too nervous (Fi-PoLR?). I thought Quinn's desire to be friends with Dexter was more to answer his Ni-"this is odd, something is weird here" rather than to quell nervousness about not being liked, making what seemed like an accidental and thus unbiased duality pair with Debra.

This is also why I think Dexter is probably better represented as Fe Hidden Agenda, rather than Ni. He does seem to have a lot of anxiety about whether or not people are accepting of him. I know he would buy donuts for the people at the station and try very hard to please everyone that has an influence in his life, even though he didn't particularly like it all the time. And is quite relieved and happy when he finds the kids liked him and stuff. I don't know...this is pretty much it and we're probably just going to say what we think and that'll be it, but that's it.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I mean I know Ni is associated with conscientiousness and that's actually why I originally typed as ILI when I first joined, but I've learned it doesn't quite work that way. Ni's association with Se seems to be one of competition and conquering, rather than conscientiousness.

=/. This is kinda off topic but why can't somebody be both competitive and conquering *and* conscientious? It's not like the winner of a race, or the hollywood writer that gets their show televised (I mean there's gotta be millions that try something like that, right?) - it's not like they're necessarily ruthless and unsympathetic to the losers, or show a lack of moral concern. They're just the winners.

lol Idk man it's just people have this Abe Simpson-ish mentality that 'bullies are stronger' but that's a load of shit. Bullies go for the easiest targets, they're only a little stronger than the people that they bully (until the victims ever stand up for themselves) They're just really insecure. When you agree to be competitive you ironically and paradoxically also agree to be moral, because you know you will be proven and compared against stuff that's actually strong; not stuff that is weak. So it's not in your best interest to try and pick on somebody you so easily beat anyway, it's only in your best interest to work on yourself and what you need to do to pull your project through. And this means that you can defeat other people 'conscientiously.' It's not like morals and doing the right thing makes you a weakling lol.

[DividedsGhost]

Was that directed at me or were you talking about people in general?...I was really implying that it isn't type related and that any type can be conscientious.

[Gilly]

So you think Debra and LaGuerta would be identicals?

I don't know, I thought LaGuerta's hidden agenda was pretty stereotypical of Ne perfection. She has that I'm never wrong, you're wrong, and here's why thing about her and a very Te-directive, I don't give a shit about feelings, approach with her work. We probably won't change our minds, but how do you see Se hidden agenda in her?

Noooo. LaGuerta is major Se oriented: all about advancing her career. I think she is most likely SEE, Doakes' mirror; I feel like Mirror relations are often the kind where the partners feel a strong connection and likeness but simply don't function the same way in intimacy or have different priorities, so the relation remains close and comfortable but just sort of can't work in a stable manner. To me, it makes sense that they would be the lone 2 Gammas in the station, given their relation to the others.

Quinn could be SLE. I prefer LSI from a perceived Ni hidden agenda. He was always suspicious of Dexter, ever since he met him and didn't seem to trust anything about him, not even the meanings of his dialogues with him. This might change with the next season though, judging from the end of the last season. But he hired that detective to watch Dexter on what was considered more of an outlandish hunch in a dead case (Ne-PoLR?) and obsessed with pursuing it to its details and only relented when he knew it would hurt his relationship with Debra.

I dunno, he seems extroverted and irrational to me, kind of a classic SLE "bad boy;" there's something kind of skeezy about him, even though he's mostly a stand up guy, which I've never seen anything like from LSIs. I believe the actor to be SLE as well, Ti subtype.

But isn't Fe hidden-agenda more of the salesman mask that Fe-HA plays to be liked in some way? That one guy (cars salesman) Dexter kills portrayed it perfectly, I thought. But it doesn't have to be a tool to use someone or sell them junk, but just to be liked. SLEs seem to complain if people are standoffish and unsociable; I think it makes them too nervous (Fi-PoLR?). I thought Quinn's desire to be friends with Dexter was more to answer his Ni-"this is odd, something is weird here" rather than to quell nervousness about not being liked, making what seemed like an accidental and thus unbiased duality pair with Debra.

I dunno, I see Quinn's sort of one-man-show attitude as classic irrationality, vs. Deb's obvious rational collective orientation.

This is also why I think Dexter is probably better represented as Fe Hidden Agenda, rather than Ni. He does seem to have a lot of anxiety about whether or not people are accepting of him. I know he would buy donuts for the people at the station and try very hard to please everyone that has an influence in his life, even though he didn't particularly like it all the time. And is quite relieved and happy when he finds the kids liked him and stuff. I don't know...this is pretty much it and we're probably just going to say what we think and that'll be it, but that's it.

Well the thing is, Fe seems to be this secret desire for Dexter that is always beneath the surface but rarely verbalized, whereas we tend to seek our HAs very actively, which Dexter does Ni in the sense of giving meaning to his life quest and trying to align everything properly in his life and internal sphere.

[glam]

Dexter: Delta ST (Michael C. Hall: maybe ESI)
Rita: Delta NF
Debra: Gamma SF? (Jennifer Carpenter: maybe LIE)
LaGuerta: Gamma SF? probably Fi ego
Lila: EIE
Doakes: SLE
Quinn: Beta ST (Desmond Harrington: Ti ego)
Masuka: ILE


personally i dislike Dexter, he's a liar, a fake who feigns innocence while letting innocents (Rita, Doakes, etc.) pay the ultimate price for his actions. he pretends to be normal, upstanding guy who avoids rocking the boat so that he can continue to be a deviant behind closed doors. it's the Beta STs (Doakes and Quinn) who find him suspicious and don't really trust him. they pursue their suspicions, despite the Fi protests and rebukes they face from Debra and LaGuerta and the like. Debra would get upset at them suspecting Dexter because he is a loved one, her family, someone who is to be trusted; and LaGuerta had chastised Quinn for suspecting Dexter's involvement in Rita's death, "For god's sake he just lost his wife!" (or something similar.)

i've watched all seasons of the show and i hope that it will end with Dexter being brought to justice (but i won't hold my breath because viewers seem to like him)

[DividedsGhost]

Noooo. LaGuerta is major Se oriented: all about advancing her career. I think she is most likely SEE, Doakes' mirror; I feel like Mirror relations are often the kind where the partners feel a strong connection and likeness but simply don't function the same way in intimacy or have different priorities, so the relation remains close and comfortable but just sort of can't work in a stable manner. To me, it makes sense that they would be the lone 2 Gammas in the station, given their relation to the others.

Oh, so you think Doakes to be ESI? I like that better than the SLE I came up with a long time ago. That's true about LaGuerta, but isn't her Se-usage kind of undirected and reactionary? That was my impression. She seems to use it to the point that she feels she has to use it to counteract the ways she gets screwed by other people, but ends up screwing something else up in the process (oblivious Ni-PoLR perhaps). I think I see what you mean with Fi though. I noticed the Fi ways she would deal with the relationships she had with the other characters on the show. Do you think her Fe fits the model of demonstrative - sometimes mocking of others Fe, or role Fe - reluctantly get people to get along to get work done? I'm inclined to Fe-role in this regard.

Well the thing is, Fe seems to be this secret desire for Dexter that is always beneath the surface but rarely verbalized, whereas we tend to seek our HAs very actively, which Dexter does Ni in the sense of giving meaning to his life quest and trying to align everything properly in his life and internal sphere.

That's true. Dexter is weird. What type would you give Lila? I don't really remember her character that much to give a good typing, but if Fe-ego, then probably EIE for her and activity relations would make sense for her and Dexter. I'm realizing activity relations are only good in short terms, otherwise they can get a bit ugly.

What did you think about Jordan Chase's character? He seemed like an interesting representation of Se-HA. Maybe LIE.

What about Lumen? I have no idea. She was kind of all over the place. I guess she was too screwed up to type while she was with Dexter? But maybe I'm not seeing what might be obviously showing through that.

[jessica129]

Rita is the worst character ever created. I'd like to punch her multiple times.