I agree it's not necessarily true all ESTjs are this way, but I like to fucking cuss out ESTjs for this anyway .. duno, it's sort of fun. B&D, you make some good points. This has me rethinking the type of kurt cobain, who I previously thought was INFj. I will have to look at it more closely .. B&D, what do you think kurt cobains type is, INFj or INFp?
Ni-polrs help the least spiritually and compassionately because they just take a here it now approach, when really- thinking things through and getting to know the totality of what the person did and does and all their noble goals and intentions in life is necessary. The big picture. But fuck that emo shit. They just see somebody misbehaving, and needing to be "Corrected" right now.
That approach has its uses. I'm not saying that. But really, if you want to actually help the person in a way where they actually will receive it, and not feel condescended to or controlled or like you are not listening to their identity, quirks and inner world stuff - like you're not respecting their own feelings and personal hopes, then you have to the harder (but better) path of listening to that person, and giving feedback about where they are at now by simply suggesting/talking to them instead of enforcing social control on how they should behave via any type of force. (This includes resisting the urge to kind of provoke/tease shy people instead of trying to get them to open up in ways that they'd respond to)
Yeah it's kind of faggy wimpy and over-educational but spiritually speaking it's the only thing that does the trick.
To do this also requires that you know what you're talking about through your earned experiences as well, so the concept of 'Write what you know' is good advice.
changed my mind back about kurt cobain, he is INFj.
Possible. I can't relate to Kurt much, really. I don't really understand why he was such a big deal anyway. The level he was worshiped as some sort of pure saint saddened me. It seemed like he was just a typical artist-type that got way too self-absorbed. Glorifying self-destruction and complete shit-head behavior just for the sake of being against conforming and 'The Man' will always be stupid to me. Also a lot of his emo hang-ups would have been cured if he would have just came out of the closet as bisexual (which he was), but he kinda enjoyed the psychic self-torture of that.
There just doesn't seem to be any good emotional pay-off to the artistic suffering he put himself through.
I take that back (somewhat). he is all kinds of awesome.
Hard guy not to like. But still. Ugh. KURT YOU KILLED YOURSELF. YOU FUCKING EMO!!!
I dont think she's SLE, I think she's LSE.
no he's ILI
Originally Posted by MasterfulMischief
Regarding Video 2.
I see a big problem with the cops behavior.
1# He man handled the kid.
2# He took the skateboard off the kid.
Everything else was justified including the someone will kill you rant.
so in some twisted way they are helping these people .. upholding a greater purpose. But we know that's a delusion, a secondary rationalizing mechanism to their true motivations ..
Last edited by crazedrat; 07-10-2009 at 01:25 PM.
How do you know that the cops that do this are necessarily ESTjs?
PT, the things the cops did is not justified and it's an abuse of authority. The second video cop should get fired. How can you tell a kid that "his attitude" is going to get him killed? The guy is insane. Those kids skating in places they're not supposed to is very annoying, but you can't take it to extremes like these cops are doing.
Do you think these kids will ever trust a cop again? And the someone will kill you rant was not justified. If he were trying to help the kid he would have explained it calmly. People do not learn if you spend your time yelling at them. Also I believe that cop was advocating sodomy one children. A police officer's primary duty is to protect the public not abuse the public when officers feel as though a piece of plastic(the badge) has been disrespected.
LIE-Ni, i think, but maybe ILI
.
I hate it how everyone is make the kids out to be the victims that they did nothing wrong oh those poor kids how could that big bad cop do that to them.
I agree that cop was an idiot and he abused his position as a cop but those kids are not saints either they just as much at fault as he is.
People a making a too bigger deal out of this.
I always thought police brutality was an LSI thing. The LSI overextends himself trying to get control of the situation and loses all sight of consequence. He means to strike fear in those kids, but when they aren't having it, he just tries harder to be more intimidating.
(but it's EII to the rescue of asshole cops, so maybe I'll reconsider)
edit: I watched the first video and it seems most of the clips take place in other countries. Police brutality doesn't exist in other places like it does in the US, so that's probably part of their normal operations.
The saddest ESFj
...
I want to clear something up I wasn't on the cops side cheering was a bad choice of words it was entertaining watching a smart alec get his rump handed to him.
You misunderstand. I don't give a fuck, it's just something interesting to talk about. If I really care about something/somebody I'm quiet as hell about it, so nobody will stand in my way when I get it. <eg>People a making a too bigger deal out of this.
So lets see the kids did what? Skateboard, which is within normality for 14yos, say dude and man, which is within normality for 14yos who skateboard. Perhaps they did or did not hear the officer, but once the officer has the situation under control he then proceeds to keep yelling and shouting because the children "disrespected" his piece of plastic by violating a city ordinance. The kids were in the wrong for skateboarding in violation of some petty ordinance, but how are they at fault because the officer lost his temper and couldn't control himself?
I imagine that an LSI would regain control over himself quickly. The way the cops, particularly the 2nd video, suggestI always thought police brutality was an LSI thing. The LSI overextends himself trying to get control of the situation and loses all sight of consequence. He means to strike fear in those kids, but when they aren't having it, he just tries harder to be more intimidating.in the ego block and
in the id block so Delta ST, but his loudness suggest Ej over Ip. So an
, with trauma somewhere in his life, would make sense.
LIE-Ni, i think, but maybe ILI
I find it amusing that people are calling this police brutality all he did was give him a bit of a shove.
Rodney King was police brutality but this is nothing but unnecessary force.
As Sereno already inquired, what evidence do you have that they are ESTj?
Ceci n'est pas une eii.
I hate all of these people sooo much.... And you crazedrat.
This isn't polr manifestation. This is the effect of brutalization and brainwashing, along with authority taken into the hands of the coercive and the vicious. And you crazedrat, have made it worse by calling it something that it isn't and diverting attention from the true problems.
Wond'ring aloud, How we feel today. Last night sipped the sunset, My hand in her hair. We are our own saviours, As we start both our hearts, Beating life Into each other. ~Ian Anderson
While the shove was unnecessary, it is the fact that he continued to yell after he had the situation under control, in addition his entire attitude is one of someone who has a chip on his shoulder, and then he is made a police officer, a position of incredible power.
LIE-Ni, i think, but maybe ILI
damn straight. Btw, I didn't know that there were other ESTjs here other than Ryu.
Whatever the police does, they're always wrong, because they're police.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
it would have been funnier if the cop had just calmly sprayed pepper spray in their eyes then shot them in the fucking face.
lol Ryu isn't LSE, he's LII.
ESTjs on the forum:
-Muah
-Smilingeyes
-Ezra
-Expat
-Director Abbie
Also, FDG is tootally correct.
Wond'ring aloud, How we feel today. Last night sipped the sunset, My hand in her hair. We are our own saviours, As we start both our hearts, Beating life Into each other. ~Ian Anderson
what an obnoxious thread.
The end is nigh
isn't expat LIE not LSE?
LIE-Ni, i think, but maybe ILI
Did you not watch the video? Clearly that is Expat.
He self types as Te ENTj, but some here (including myself) believe he is Te ESTj.
The end is nigh
These police officers seem nice:
[QUOTE=tuturututu;539259]These police officers seem nice:
I knew you'd return back to the forum!
LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP
And you are wrong about Expat, he is LIE.
First off.. Yeah, all the ones I could VI were ESTjs.. if you can't get that from VI then fine, write this all off as bullshit. In the meantime I'm moving on.
Second of all: Granted, I was fuckin pissed off during the first few replies and I used universal language toward ~ALL~ ESTjs. Really, it's just these ESTjs; and perhaps unhealthy ESTjs in general.. which need a spanking. OK, congratulations.. you win that point. Now for the important part:
The general response is the system has a way of forcing ESTjs towards such actions, putting them in a place where they see they're required to act; to do whatever they can in order to get the job done. The problem here is there is a distinction between necessary action within the parameters of the law, and breaking the law in the name of a lawful purpose. Breaking the law in order to enforce the law is arbitrary. You can argue the black man has a justified motivation in robbing the gas station because he's fucking poor, and he needs the money. So he does what he can in order to achieve an unyielding endgoal. He breaks the law. Does that justify him shooting the fucking cashier? By your way of thinking, it does. And looking at it this way, the unlawful cops are no different than the criminals. Infact the only difference is that the unlawful cops are in power and the criminals are enslaved. Now if the purpose of law and order is to preserve the social network in place; a network which supports the rich and enslaves the poor, a cop being a member of the upper class is preserving their own interests through beating down the criminals. The motivations of cops and criminals are also no different. Once the cop breaks the law in order to enforce the law, he is a criminal; and once a poor person breaks the law in order to eat, he is a criminal. That's how the cold system works. I know it sucks. Let's all cry together. But remember.. Everyone is subjected to the hard cold system, in some form or another. Even the rich. Where ESTjs come into this is with their Ni polr and Ne HA. These weak functions seem to leave them stuck in one point of view. Ultimately, the only protection against antisocial criminal behavior or unlawful law enforcement is the psychological ability to place yourself in the shoes of your opposition. I don't think ESTjs can do this very well.. maybe even at all. It's for this reason, I believe, they gravitate towards law enforcement in the first place.. any other type is sane enough to realize the meaninglessness of what they're doing. For ESTjs, it's a matter of bullshit glorified morality. and I suspect ESTjs will gravitate towards crime as well, like some fucking robin hood; and if we were all poor we may think of ESTjs as 'those guys who fuck with cops'. And yeah, I am sure I can find a way to bitch about every type, and how they perpetuate problems in the system. What started this is I had a surge of anger towards cops.. I saw those videos of the fucking cops acting like fags. Tom, you're a douche. Cry more about the system.. the poor cops, the tough decisions. There's a place you draw the line, and it's somehwere between robbing the store and shooting the cashier. And yeah, I fucking hate you too.... you fucking pig.
Last edited by crazedrat; 07-11-2009 at 02:10 AM.
Yeah. It's more like a regulated purpose -- a recursive cycle of role-filling and excessive retaliation to perceived violations of the dignified code which upholds its roots.
They're not "just as much at fault" -- how the hell can you even compare them? The cop is older, in a position of authority and has the leverage; they are kids wandering along with skateboards, trying to deal with an unnerving situation. The degree of fault isn't simply measured by the 'wrong' actions one performs, but rather, the awareness of their motivations and implications.
4w3-5w6-8w7
4w3-5w6-8w7
You used "universal language toward ~ALL~ ESTjs" when it should have been directed at the individuals involved...does your action show the "subjective orientation of ti"?
Plot thickens... actually I find myself agreeing with crazedrat wholeheartedly in this case. I think he's showing quite a bit ofin his post. Good man!
The saddest ESFj
...
I was agreeing or disagreeing with crazedrat. It's just that he said that someone else showed a "subjective orientation of ti" because that person believed that crazedrat was acting like an authority on a subject with seemingly no reason to back up this authority.Plot thickens... actually I find myself agreeing with crazedrat wholeheartedly in this case. I think he's showing quite a bit of
Crazedrat then said this was not true, as he said that the other individual could observe the point for himself "in reality". At the same time, crazedrat said that he believed he was being targeted because of something he had said earlier, although he couldn't possibly have known whether this was definitely true or not.
no, it shows that Ni counts on Se to grant it context and meaning. Since INTjs have Se polr, when a Ni dominant speaks, what ends up happening is the INTj doesn't know wtf they're talking about because they don't pay enough attention to the immediate experience of the situation at hand in order to grant interpretations on this situation proper context. So then the Ni type has to go back and re-write most everything they say in order to give full language awareness to what otherwise should be a matter of context. This is one reason I like Se dominant types so much; because they're aware of what the fuck is going on. It makes communication alot easier. And I have noticed some INTjs are alot more keyed into the situation than others.. I've known a few who I could talk to very easily.. They seem in control of their polr function to some degree. You definitely aren't one of them though.
No, you admitted that you used "universal language" towards all ESTjs when you were only referring to a few individuals that you had typed as ESTj.
Yeah. The few individuals were the ones in the video. In order to grant the abstract, universal language meaning, you would watch the video and then read the post. You would have in your mind what you have just watched, and then you would interpret what you read as a statement on what you just experienced. What you read will only have meaning confined to the experience. This is how INp/ESp duals talk to eachother. Abstract language with a silent awareness of a situation to grant it context. I can say one word to an ESp and they will know what I mean .. it is very easy, and alot more relaxed than dealing with a fucktard like you, for example. So when I say "all ESTjs are fucking retarded", it is sort of understood that the only thought of ESTj in my mind, at that moment, is having to do with what I am experiencing
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