Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst 12345
Results 161 to 190 of 190

Thread: Understanding Fi of EIIs-INFjs and the origins of their empathy

  1. #161
    Ritella's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    at your feet
    Posts
    2,092
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    whoa, Sereno, please calm down. This was not meant to be a jab at you. This was just a slightly overexaggerrated commentary on things that _some_ INFJs may do that may infuriate _some_ people. I'll respond to your points individually.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sereno View Post
    I'm going to treat this as if you were being serious:
    I was, though you seem to have missed the point a bit.

    You're implying here that INFjs would really like to do bad things, but it's just the Se that gets in their way of not doing it?
    No, that's not what I'm implying; that's what you read into it. All I was saying is that even if an INFJ wanted to do something bad (and this bad thing is not even of the magnitude of murder, just something that any normal human being would do), they're unable to really implement it because they lack the resolve to do so. Often, also, INFJs get branded as good people more because they haven't done anything wrong than because they've done something particularly good.

    I don't know about you, but I never get thoughts in my head of hurting anyone or doing any illegal activities unless I'm hurt by the person significantly. I do not get any satisfaction or thrill in doing things that I consider to be "evil." Obviously, every person is a human being, and everyone has their human element. Also, it's not like I personally want people to look at me as a saint, and I don't even consider myself to be one, they can really think whatever the hell they want!!
    umm. That's good.

    There are people out there who are saints, in that they actually try their best to do good in this world, and if it's an INFj, or whatever type, then so be it. But to attribute "sainthood" or simply being a good person not wishing harm to others as a Se defficiency is wrong to me.
    Not what I was doing at all. I also don't attribute evil to Se- ego. LOL.

    It doesn't register in my head how someone can lead a morally good life and have it attributed to lack of assertiveness... Is it easy to be a good person in this world? Hardly!! It takes a lot of confidence and courage in what you think is right and oppose so many hardships due to that, and so much bullshit that other people throw at you because they don't want you to succeed. Unless we're talking about little issues of sainthood, it definitely takes assertiveness to defend and keep going with your beliefs.
    Well, yeah, but in some ways it's also easier to do things that are going to get you a medal for sainthood than something which is, at the very least, controversial.

    I have nothing to say about this, because I just don't get it. It sounds psychopathic to me. I've never toyed with the idea of being evil at all, unless it's something that will never happen in real life, like having superpowers and living in Gotham or something.
    I said nothing about "being evil."

    What's bolded I do see a possibility. But the rest is just crazy Ritella, at least for me... If anything I surpress negative emotions, never the positive ones, and it's because I don't like influencing other people's emotions in a bad way. I don't like projecting negative or draining emotions, ever. But it seems inevitable at times.
    Umm. That is exactly my point. INFJs don't feel they have a right to project negative emotions so they internalize it. Sometimes this can lead to bad things. Whether or not the INFJ does this for good reasons- i.e. not to influence other people negatively- is not the point.

    ??? If you're talking about being moody when sick, then that is true in my case.
    Well it's good that you're not as bad as I described, but I can tell you that I know at least 5 INFJs who are.

    The bolded part I agree, but everything that follows it I disagree entirely. People should answer for the things they do, but in a way that corresponds with the intentions that they had in doing them.
    Again, this was exactly my point. You just restated what I took to be an EII belief.

    And I don't define moral codes such that I can never be wrong...
    Read where I wrote this. I said that EII's never have bad intentions and that they define morality respective to people's intentions. I'm not saying EIIs do this on purpose so that they can never be wrong, but it's ummm kind of fitting, no?

    I appreciate it when people tell me the things that I do wrong, and I have regretted things I've done where I have been wrong, and I am open to this type of questioning.
    Well, yes. And I never said anything to the contrary.


    Ritella, please delete the part in bold. I think you will agree that you went too far and this type of thing is no joke...
    LOL. No offense, I could have written "EIIs are the devil incarnate" and it wouldn't matter. Nothing that I, or anyone else, says is necessarily true. No offense, but your reaction to this is sort of the reason why I wrote this thread. Do you realize that you're freaking out to the fact that the EII image has been disparaged?

    I don't know what to say about this passage, it's full of confusion. I can only say that I have had a mixture of high self esteem and low self esteem depending on what is happening to me at a given moment.
    Okay...

    Why do I have to talk about what is private to me? I don't feel in anyway forced here to say things that I don't want to say. You're making it sound like being private is a bad thing, and when I decided not to respond it wasn't because I would be "confessing" anything. I don't feel pressured in the least to have to say anything about myself, and why would I? It makes no sense. This is a public forum, meaning anyone can read what I write here, and that only makes me comfortable to talk about myself only to a certain level. And, that's something that is going to stay.
    I never said that you have to reveal private information. And, again, you are only proving my point. All I said is that EIIs are very sensitive to private information (which you've now clearly demonstrated). Can you imagine the possibility that to some people, this privacy is something that is highly irritating about the EIIs? That is all I was saying. I wasn't saying I devalued it, or it was objectively wrong; just that this is what they do, and it's annoying to some people.


    Ok, why and how is it "well done"?
    Umm. Because he (subjectively) liked it?
    EII; E6(w5)

    i am flakey

  2. #162
    Lobo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    TIM
    EII 6w5
    Posts
    2,080
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I don't want to nitpick and dissect the things you said, but if you look closely you did say "being evil" for example in one of the points... In any case, I didn't take it as a jab towards me and I was calm, but some of the things that were mentioned bothered me because people can actually take them seriously (or you may be right in that I didn't understand the point you were trying to make?). I don't feel much "affiliated" to an EII group to be offended when it's being criticized, and I wasn't offended. There are things mentioned though that I do not see related to socionics, and the reasons for posting some of the stuff is questionable to me. Also, I didn't prove your points in what I said, even though that's what you mention...

    I don't want to make an argument about it, and I don't have hard feelings towards you just so you know. So I'll leave it at that.

  3. #163

    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    104
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I'm going to have to agree with Sereno here that the post by Ritella was inaccurate and definitely not true of a healthy INFJ. I personally found it to be slightly offensive.
    A few of the statements may be somewhat true but in general it was not an accurate description of an INFj. It sounded like a description of a very sick, emotionally unhealthy INFj.

  4. #164

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,687
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default



    I thought she was just trying to give a more balanced picture - "INFj uncovered"

  5. #165

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    854
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hellothere View Post


    I thought she was just trying to give a more balanced picture - "INFj uncovered"
    She was. I don't think she ever said anything like a healthy infj will act like this .....

    Rittella be careful now everyone is gonna say you're an f-ing beta....
    EII 4w5

    so/sx (?)

  6. #166

    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    104
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Christy B View Post
    She was. I don't think she ever said anything like a healthy infj will act like this .....
    Well, it seems extreme to even imply that ANY INFj would act like that unless they were very unhealthy . . .

    Rittella be careful now everyone is gonna say you're an f-ing beta....
    Nah, it's not my place to judge anyone else's type. In real life I can easily tell, but the internet can be deceiving.

  7. #167

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    854
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ann2430 View Post
    Nah, it's not my place to judge anyone else's type. In real life I can easily tell, but the internet can be deceiving.
    <3
    EII 4w5

    so/sx (?)

  8. #168
    Lobo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    TIM
    EII 6w5
    Posts
    2,080
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Christy B View Post
    She was. I don't think she ever said anything like a healthy infj will act like this .....

    Rittella be careful now everyone is gonna say you're an f-ing beta....
    Yeah Ritella, you f-ing beta!!! Burn them all!! j/k




    Well, I do like fire and burning things, maybe if other INFjs like it too it can be added to a description .

  9. #169
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    26,955
    Mentioned
    701 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Fi is the feeling created by internalizing someone hence creating relationships through the process of internal dialogue with the characters one creates and relates to. I have a very unexpressive face unlike my SEI counterpart

    Let me see if I can add more thoughts to this:

    Because of the nature of Fi, internal dialogue with things we relate to, the reactions can seem sudden and out of nowhere sometimes; we look passionless on the outside empty and just calm, but there's a lot going on on the inside constantly and if someone says something that strikes internally the external emotional response seems sudden;

    This is easy...Someone comes and talks to me about all the problems they are having and I find ways (through my inventive fila) to provide sympathy for them and listen to their problems, and more than that I'm driven to help them in any way I can.

    So
    Empathy
    Sympathy
    Compassion
    Love
    Real Assistance.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 01-25-2013 at 06:21 AM.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  10. #170
    Serial Killer Next Door LeaT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Sweden
    TIM
    EII-Ne 5w4 sp/sx
    Posts
    62
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I haven't read through all the responses, but to me at least, Fi is like Ti but the focus is on different things. If Ti is interested in logical systems ad nauseam, then Fi is interested in human ethics and values. Fi also builds a system of sorts but it's related to what is good and what is bad, what is right or wrong, what is meaningful or not and so on.

    To be quite honest, I think understanding the superego block functions will always result in a failure of sorts. I have been studying some LxI types now, and the way they reason and understand just keeps flabbergasting me. I can superficially understand but the way they truly work is probably something I'll never understand.

    "You fucking disappoint me."

    5w4 4w5 8w7 sp/sx INxP/EII


  11. #171
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    26,955
    Mentioned
    701 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    I haven't read through all the responses, but to me at least, Fi is like Ti but the focus is on different things. If Ti is interested in logical systems ad nauseam, then Fi is interested in human ethics and values. Fi also builds a system of sorts but it's related to what is good and what is bad, what is right or wrong, what is meaningful or not and so on.

    To be quite honest, I think understanding the superego block functions will always result in a failure of sorts. I have been studying some LxI types now, and the way they reason and understand just keeps flabbergasting me. I can superficially understand but the way they truly work is probably something I'll never understand.
    It's not that Fi is building a logical system based on human values; it's that through relation with object from a subjective viewpoint, certain things are judged. It's where things are felt, on a super sensitive scale; not emotional sensitivity as we relate with Fe; but with internal sensitivity to dialogue.

    I have a good example of this... follow my train of logic

    Today, as I was waiting for the train, a lady jumped under the opposing train; I don't know the facts behind the circumstances that lead her to do this, however that's not important. Imagine me, there. I stopped and looked at the train stop half way on it's track, I watched the lights inside the train go out as the driver shut down the power and my instinct was something was going wrong; there were people inside that train sitting in the dark, so my inclination was to go towards it and to quickly assess the situation to see if I could be of any help. The operator came out and told a young man that someone had jumped under the train. I reacted immediately by sticking my head in between the side of the platform and calling for the person's attention. As I was working quickly up and down the last end of the train, I started to cry, an overwhelming feeling of sorrow came over me as the person's image was building in my head (possibly she or he, possibly this type of body, possibly this kind of injury, possibly this kind of feelings) as more information was added more of a picture was built; it was clear it was a Hispanic woman, she called back in Spanish, I began to cry harder, feeling so overwhelmed by her situation because I felt trapped inside her body under the dark train; I felt, literally the claustrophobia set in my and her pain as well; I had to leave the train as help crew began to work to get her out, but I imagined her and cried for her all morning; Fi is fed by possibilities perception of the situation;

    then my judgement started to set in and they were as such:

    "If she chose to ender her life it was unkind for her to have publicly end their lives as she did because she shocked the other passengers and she caused great emotional trauma on others;"

    "If it was an accident, it was careless of her to have stepped so close to the edge of the platform where safety markers clearly indicate for her to not cross."

    My emotional state, once changed, was changed for a long time.

    At this point, I've vested so much mental energy on this situation where an SEI co worker simply says "aww ; I'm sorry you had to see that Maritsa. I just don't understand why it's not safe." That was it for her. That was the extent of her experience; maybe just a sympathy but here I am helping, crying, judging.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 01-26-2013 at 02:33 AM.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  12. #172
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    26,955
    Mentioned
    701 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    I'm not concerned about rules; I'm concerned about considerate action in relation to other human beings.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  13. #173
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8,313
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    This is the description that a) I feel best captures my dominant thought process and b) enlightens one on the topic at hand.

    Psychological Types by Carl Jung

    Feeling

    Introverted feeling is determined principally by the subjective factor. This means that the feeling-judgment differs quite as essentially from extraverted feeling as does the introversion of thinking from extraversion. It is unquestionably difficult to give an intellectual presentation of the introverted feeling process, or even an approximate [p. 490] description of it, although the peculiar character of this kind of feeling simply stands out as soon as one becomes aware of it at all. Since it is primarily controlled by subjective preconditions, and is only secondarily concerned with the object, this feeling appears much less upon the surface and is, as a rule, misunderstood. It is a feeling which apparently depreciates the object; hence it usually becomes noticeable in its negative manifestations. The existence of a positive feeling can be inferred only indirectly, as it were. Its aim is not so much to accommodate to the objective fact as to stand above it, since its whole unconscious effort is to give reality to the underlying images. It is, as it were, continually seeking an image which has no existence in reality, but of which it has had a sort of previous vision. From objects that can never fit in with its aim it seems to glide unheedingly away. It strives after an inner intensity, to which at the most, objects contribute only an accessory stimulus. The depths of this feeling can only be divined -- they can never be clearly comprehended. It makes men silent and difficult of access; with the sensitiveness of the mimosa, it shrinks from the brutality of the object, in order to expand into the depths of the subject. It puts forward negative feeling-judgments or assumes an air of profound indifference, as a measure of self-defence.

    Primordial images are, of course, just as much idea as feeling. Thus, basic ideas such as God, freedom, immortality are just as much feeling-values as they are significant as ideas. Everything, therefore, that has been said of the introverted thinking refers equally to introverted feeling, only here everything is felt while there it was thought. But the fact that thoughts can generally be expressed more intelligibly than feelings demands a more than ordinary descriptive or artistic capacity before the real wealth of this feeling can be even approximately [p. 491] presented or communicated to the outer world. Whereas subjective thinking, on account of its unrelatedness, finds great difficulty in arousing an adequate understanding, the same, though in perhaps even higher degree, holds good for subjective feeling. In order to communicate with others it has to find an external form which is not only fitted to absorb the subjective feeling in a satisfying expression, but which must also convey it to one's fellowman in such a way that a parallel process takes place in him. Thanks to the relatively great internal (as well as external) similarity of the human being, this effect can actually be achieved, although a form acceptable to feeling is extremely difficult to find, so long as it is still mainly orientated by the fathomless store of primordial images. But, when it becomes falsified by an egocentric attitude, it at once grows unsympathetic, since then its major concern is still with the ego. Such a case never fails to create an impression of sentimental self-love, with its constant effort to arouse interest and even morbid self-admiration just as the subjectified consciousness of the introverted thinker, striving after an abstraction of abstractions, only attains a supreme intensity of a thought-process in itself quite empty, so the intensification of egocentric feeling only leads to a contentless passionateness, which merely feels itself. This is the mystical, ecstatic stage, which prepares the way over into the extraverted functions repressed by feeling, just as introverted thinking is pitted against a primitive feeling, to which objects attach themselves with magical force, so introverted feeling is counterbalanced by a primitive thinking, whose concretism and slavery to facts passes all bounds. Continually emancipating itself from the relation to the object, this feeling creates a freedom, both of action and of conscience, that is only answerable to the subject, and that may even renounce all traditional values. But so much the more [p. 492] does unconscious thinking fall a victim to the power of objective facts.

    The Introverted Feeling Type

    It is principally among women that I have found the priority of introverted feeling. The proverb 'Still waters run deep' is very true of such women. They are mostly silent, inaccessible, and hard to understand; often they hide behind a childish or banal mask, and not infrequently their temperament is melancholic. They neither shine nor reveal themselves. Since they submit the control of their lives to their subjectively orientated feeling, their true motives generally remain concealed. Their outward demeanour is harmonious and inconspicuous; they reveal a delightful repose, a sympathetic parallelism, which has no desire to affect others, either to impress, influence, or change them in any way. Should this outer side be somewhat emphasized, a suspicion of neglectfulness and coldness may easily obtrude itself, which not seldom increases to a real indifference for the comfort and well-being of others. One distinctly feels the movement of feeling away from the object. With the normal type, however, such an event only occurs when the object has in some way too strong an effect. The harmonious feeling atmosphere rules only so long as the object moves upon its own way with a moderate feeling intensity, and makes no attempt to cross the other's path. There is little effort to accompany the real emotions of the object, which tend to be damped and rebuffed, or to put it more aptly, are 'cooled off' by a negative feeling-judgment. Although one may find a constant readiness for a peaceful and harmonious companionship, the unfamiliar object is shown no touch of amiability, no gleam of responding warmth, but is met by a manner of apparent indifference or repelling coldness. [p. 493]

    One may even be made to feel the superfluousness of one's own existence. In the presence of something that might carry one away or arouse enthusiasm, this type observes a benevolent neutrality, tempered with an occasional trace of superiority and criticism that soon takes the wind out of the sails of a sensitive object. But a stormy emotion will be brusquely rejected with murderous coldness, unless it happens to catch the subject from the side of the unconscious, i.e. unless, through the animation of some primordial image, feeling is, as it were, taken captive. In which event such a woman simply feels a momentary laming, invariably producing, in due course, a still more violent resistance, which reaches the object in his most vulnerable spot. The relation to the object is, as far as possible, kept in a secure and tranquil middle state of feeling, where passion and its intemperateness are resolutely proscribed. Expression of feeling, therefore, remains niggardly and, when once aware of it at all, the object has a permanent sense of his undervaluation. Such, however, is not always the case, since very often the deficit remains unconscious; whereupon the unconscious feeling-claims gradually produce symptoms which compel a more serious attention.

    A superficial judgment might well be betrayed, by a rather cold and reserved demeanour, into denying all feeling to this type. Such a view, however, would be quite false; the truth is, her feelings are intensive rather than extensive. They develop into the depth. Whereas, for instance, an extensive feeling of sympathy can express itself in both word and deed at the right place, thus quickly ridding itself of its impression, an intensive sympathy, because shut off from every means of expression, gains a passionate depth that embraces the misery of a world and is simply benumbed. It may possibly make an extravagant irruption, leading to some staggering act of an almost heroic character, to which, however, neither the object nor [p. 494] the subject can find a right relation. To the outer world, or to the blind eyes of the extravert, this sympathy looks like coldness, for it does nothing visibly, and an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.

    Such misunderstanding is a characteristic occurrence in the life of this type, and is commonly registered as a most weighty argument against any deeper feeling relation with the object. But the underlying, real object of this feeling is only dimly divined by the normal type. It may possibly express its aim and content in a concealed religiosity anxiously shielded, from profane eyes, or in intimate poetic forms equally safeguarded from surprise; not without a secret ambition to bring about some superiority over the object by such means. Women often express much of it in their children, letting their passionateness flow secretly into them.

    Although in the normal type, the tendency, above alluded to, to overpower or coerce the object once openly and visibly with the thing secretly felt, rarely plays a disturbing role, and never leads to a serious attempt in this direction, some trace of it, none the less, leaks through into the personal effect upon the object, in the form of a domineering influence often difficult to define. It is sensed as a sort of stifling or oppressive feeling which holds the immediate circle under a spell. It gives a woman of this type a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious. This power is derived from the deeply felt, unconscious images; consciousness, however, readily refers it to the ego, whereupon the influence becomes debased into personal tyranny. But, wherever the unconscious subject is identified with the ego, the mysterious power of the intensive feeling is also transformed into banal and arrogant ambition, vanity, and [p. 495] petty tyranny. This produces a type of woman most regrettably distinguished by her unscrupulous ambition and mischievous cruelty. But this change in the picture leads also to neurosis.

    So long as the ego feels itself housed, as it were, beneath the heights of the unconscious subject, and feeling reveals something higher and mightier than the ego, the type is normal. The unconscious thinking is certainly archaic, yet its reductions may prove extremely helpful in compensating the occasional inclinations to exalt the ego into the subject. But, whenever this does take place by dint of complete suppression of the unconscious reductive thinking-products, the unconscious thinking goes over into opposition and becomes projected into objects. Whereupon the now egocentric subject comes to feel the power and importance of the depreciated object. Consciousness begins to feel 'what others think'. Naturally, others are thinking, all sorts of baseness, scheming evil, and contriving all sorts of plots, secret intrigues, etc. To prevent this, the subject must also begin to carry out preventive intrigues, to suspect and sound others, to make subtle combinations. Assailed by rumours, he must make convulsive efforts to convert, if possible, a threatened inferiority into a superiority. Innumerable secret rivalries develop, and in these embittered struggles not only will no base or evil means be disdained, but even virtues will be misused and tampered with in order to play the trump card. Such a development must lead to exhaustion. The form of neurosis is neurasthenic rather than hysterical; in the case of women we often find severe collateral physical states, as for instance anæmia and its sequelæ.

  14. #174
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    26,955
    Mentioned
    701 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Yes, and the subjective preconditions are values one has determined from experience. Example:

    "Banning people from places due to their differences in personality is wrong."

    Depreciation of an object comes in when the actual object is not contacted directly but internalized and subjected to the person's internal dialogue.

    But a stormy emotion will be brusquely rejected with murderous coldness, unless it happens to catch the subject from the side of the unconscious, i.e. unless, through the animation of some primordial image, feeling is, as it were, taken captive.

    Hence, my "twatty" remark about Agarina's post.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  15. #175
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    8,313
    Mentioned
    15 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    It's some really great stuff.

  16. #176
    Destroypuppy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Montreal
    TIM
    ILE
    Posts
    289
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I believe that Fi as an accepting function is the way to see relationships between two or more persons or objects in an implicit way. For example to see that two persons like or dislike each other. The problem is that it's not evident, so it's more of an impression. Those people, with the Fi as a leading function will not necessarily share what they see on the spot but will often say things like 'I knew those two didn't like each other ' or 'I knew I wouldn't like this movie.'

    Does that make sense?
    Last edited by Destroypuppy; 03-18-2013 at 07:25 AM.

  17. #177
    Destroypuppy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Montreal
    TIM
    ILE
    Posts
    289
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    In our example the third group of observers – introverts-statics – first of all will be interested in the analysis of the mother and the child’s relationships. There are also 2 sub-groups here. The first one – logics – will see first of all objective relationships: the mother is taller than the child, the things at home are arranged in a good order – every thing is in its place, the child takes the high position in the mother’s priorities, the mother, in her turn, strives to get a high position in the social hierarchy. The second group of observers – ethics – will pay attention to the relationships: the mother and the son love each other tenderly, they love their relatives and are polite and tactful in communication.

    Source : http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...s-in-Socionics

  18. #178
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    26,955
    Mentioned
    701 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    "human beings should be nice to one another."

    "hi mom, I love you and I miss you."

    "how can people be so mean to one another."
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  19. #179
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    17,948
    Mentioned
    162 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    "human beings should be nice to one another."

    "hi mom, I love you and I miss you."

    "how can people be so mean to one another."
    Great Fi. Second line can be used against enemies of Delta Quadra on here.

  20. #180
    Nevero's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    426
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Would this be an example of INFj's Fi?

    Could this video be exemplary of Fi of INFjs? Seems like a very complex, unusual, and intelligent take on feelings from its description.





    Video comments:

    Japanese AUJIK presents it's latest manifestation that deals with Artificial General Intelligence and complex dialectical sentiment systems. Music specially composed by Mira Calix featuring cellist Oliver Coates.

    AUJIK's visual manifestation 'impermanence trajectory: stained seed' is based upon the idea of Computational Dialectics via Complex Sentiment Systems. By using dialectical values that is the concept and phenomena expressed in terms of conflict, contradiction, opposite, difference, etc. In thought, nature, and society it is the motive force both of nature and of human endeavor, leading to a further trajectory of development.

    It consists of two subjects: agent X and agent Y. Each subject is exposed to eight different emotional inputs that determine a value. Values are also influenced by four different forces. These forces either combine or divide the emotional values, rendering random outcomes depending on their previous state, their environment, and the state of the other agent.

    The trajectory starts with an initial state where the two agents plant a seed each. The seed grows according to the emotional states of the agent and the impact of the forces.

    During the evolution of the seed, the tree – which represents the object – also changes its form and gradually blossoms before it collapses due to a self-inflicted virus.

    The virus generates a portal system - through the tress core - that implicates yet another realm of emotions and consciousness that will allow them to reanimate the process again and adjust it. Optimizing the cognitive and emotional parameters to sufficiency.

    The agents’ emotional states are visualized by their heads, which are symmetric and reminiscent of a Rorschach test.

    Their values and force impact can be seen at the lower sides of the picture.
    The agents themselves can be described as variables and algorithms as used in computer code for developing Artificial General Intelligence.

    By applying their emotional states to a dialectical format (thesis, anti-thesis & synthesis), they aim to improve their emotional outcomes and refining in to an impermanence perfection.
    Artificial General Intelligence and computational dialectical emotional systems.

    About Mira Calix:
    Mira Calix is the stage name of Chantal Passamonte, a British based artist signed to Warp Records. Although her earlier music is almost exclusively electronic, in recent years she has incorporated classical instrumentation into her work for performance, recording and installations.
    warp.net/records/mira-calix
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mira_Calix
    miracalix.com/

    Filmed in Shiga, Japan 2013. Premiere 1/15/2014 by Dazed & Confused magazine:
    dazeddigital.com/artsandculture/article/18396/1/impermanence-trajectory-stained-seed.

  21. #181
    Esaman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    876
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    What I see is:
    Minimal relationship information - no Fi;
    Visual emphasis - marveling - static passive observation of an object which has inner significance. (Se)
    Passive observation of dynamic playing itself out - Ni.
    Dynamic of "sentiments" interacting between themselves. Passive Fe.
    "Impermanence"+"dialectic"=Ni.
    Having a thing for computation and AI but the piece having almost zero clues that it is about such artificial things and not about complex biological systems of microorganism which is what it looks like. Ti HA
    IEI me thinks.

  22. #182
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    26,955
    Mentioned
    701 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    This was very hard for me to watch. It's a lot slower and inwardly reflective than that. Imagine a scene filled with emotional nuances. Me standing in the middle of a river, then emotions come about as thoughts of the serenity exists around me. The trees are often still and not moving but they are capturing an emotion that I can relate to that I have related to. An emotion of sadness, of loneliness, or of blank and inexpressiveness; that I'm standing in the middle of this nature, the river, the distint trees that moment of silence I've associated with melancholia.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  23. #183

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    918
    Mentioned
    54 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    The future, the outcome, life, pulsating of life, womb, birth, death, despair, defects, hurt, pain, happiness, hope, growth, dreams, visions, prophecy, clarity, seeing through the fog, spiritual, seeking, sign reading, communication, The Creator, connection, universe, space, time, timeline, timelessness, conscious, unconscious, internal, the mind, moving in the hopefully best direction, adjusting.
    The video is a good interpretation of how I see things in my mind and it was able for moments to recreate realistic images and feelings I can receive.

  24. #184
    Nevero's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    426
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Esaman View Post
    What I see is:
    Minimal relationship information - no Fi;
    The relationships in this movie are between an agent and living things of his creation which the agent influences by his inner emotional states. It takes a mature imagination to conceive that relationships don't always involve human characters but can occur between other living things.

  25. #185
    Seed my wickedness The Reality Denialist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Spontaneous Human Combustion
    TIM
    EIE-C-Ni ™
    Posts
    8,310
    Mentioned
    349 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    This was very hard for me to watch. It's a lot slower and inwardly reflective than that. Imagine a scene filled with emotional nuances. Me standing in the middle of a river, then emotions come about as thoughts of the serenity exists around me. The trees are often still and not moving but they are capturing an emotion that I can relate to that I have related to. An emotion of sadness, of loneliness, or of blank and inexpressiveness; that I'm standing in the middle of this nature, the river, the distint trees that moment of silence I've associated with melancholia.
    Ummm... Ti version:
    sceintist-2.jpg
    (granted that this picture requires extensive understanding; probably surpassing one or two BS degrees in natural sciences and mathematics)
    Last edited by The Reality Denialist; 09-06-2016 at 03:28 AM.
    MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
    Winning is for losers

     

    Sincerely yours,
    idiosyncratic type
    Life is a joke but do you have a life?

    Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org

  26. #186
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    26,955
    Mentioned
    701 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by unsuccessfull Alphamale View Post
    Ummm... Ti version:
    sceintist-2.jpg
    (granted that this picture requires extensive understanding; probably surpassing one or two BS degrees in natural sciences and mathematics)
    yes
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  27. #187
    Seed my wickedness The Reality Denialist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Spontaneous Human Combustion
    TIM
    EIE-C-Ni ™
    Posts
    8,310
    Mentioned
    349 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Yes, there seems to be this weird kind of ability in xIIs to tune in some kind of impressionistic Si mode. It's something that I tend to lack.
    MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
    Winning is for losers

     

    Sincerely yours,
    idiosyncratic type
    Life is a joke but do you have a life?

    Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org

  28. #188
    Subthigh Enters Laughing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Beijing
    TIM
    TMI
    Posts
    19,189
    Mentioned
    507 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)

    Default

    The NF types in general are more inclined to idealism in regards what the common lot of humanity should be, and are more prone to suffer when their fantasy ideal is shattered. They are more prone to be filled with unfounded optimism or disproportionately irrational pessimism based on the disconnect between their detached nature and the inability to not over-react to one-off or comparatively insignificant incidents. It may not strictly be "empathy" as such, but tragedies of others of varying sizes have the effect of poisoning the mind with negative thoughts that seem like they will never go away, and which make the individual feel utterly helpless and prone to silently screaming in total despair. This is an expression of what would be typically be considered "empathy".

    A more enjoyable form is the sense of elation you feel almost to the point of tears when in a group of thousands you know without words what joy everybody is feeling. Such sensations are undoubtedly felt universally, which in itself is a reason to be cheerful.

  29. #189
    Arete GuavaDrunk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Now in stores near you.
    TIM
    IEI-Fe (9)62 sx/?
    Posts
    1,586
    Mentioned
    108 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by unsuccessfull Alphamale View Post
    Ummm... Ti version:
    sceintist-2.jpg
    (granted that this picture requires extensive understanding; probably surpassing one or two BS degrees in natural sciences and mathematics)
    (Second year university maths and physics, and first year Biology, imo.)
    Reason is a whore.

Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst 12345

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •