View Poll Results: What was his type?

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  • ILE (ENTp)

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  • SEI (ISFp)

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  • SLE (ESTp)

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Thread: Howard Hughes

  1. #1
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    Default Howard Hughes

    What do you think?



     





















    Last edited by silke; 12-13-2018 at 05:04 PM. Reason: updated links

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    six turnin', four burnin' stevENTj's Avatar
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    At least based on the movie about him (The Aviator), I was thinking ENFj.
    Te-INTp/ILI, my wife: Fi-ISFj/ESI, with laser beam death rays for ESTp/SLEs, lol
    16 years of bliss in an Activity relationship

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    not on the basis of the movie please

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    six turnin', four burnin' stevENTj's Avatar
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    then nevermind.

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    I know a bit more about him than just from The Aviator, and I'd say ENFj, too. Ethical subtype.

    It fits - his perfectionism, his early charm and leadership, his disorder, his weak , especially in the extremes of his later years.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    six turnin', four burnin' stevENTj's Avatar
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    I didn't mention this, but I did actually work for Hughes (Network Systems) for a number of years. Just from the corporate culture you could sorta sense this "reach for the stars" mentality. Very visionary and ground breaking. Some things worked out great like they highlighted in the movie. But other things they spent millions if not billions on developing, only for the market to fall through or the few customers that wanted it evaporating in the dot com bust. Some of the things just kept going on and on and on and on and any sane person would have pulled the plug on it ages ago, but they just kept pouring billions into it never to see a dime back. Or they kept delaying product launches for years so that they could "perfect" it and keep putting more and more and more features into it that nobody would use. That remineded me of that movie he was making in the Aviator. And where are the Hughes companies today? Either shut down or bought out by competitors. Hughes Aircraft got absorbed by I forget who. Hughes Satellite Systems got bought by Boeing. Hughes Electronics (Direct TV, H. Network systems, etc) got bought by News Corp and is being sold off in chunks. Lots of fallout.

    Anyways, watching the movie I was like "yeah, that's Hughes alright". Visionary, reckless, high-risk, delaying things for years to "perfect" them, sometimes success, other times total disaster (not highlighted so much in the movie), etc. This is why I mentioned ENFj.

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    From a documentary I saw o Hughes, he was a shy person and also had a pschological condition in which he felt uncomfortable with people looking at him.

    I therefore don't think he is extroverted. I don't think the movie necessarily portrays a true picture of his personality. I suppose they try to make a film dramatic.

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    I think some ENTjs and ENFjs can appear to be shy at personal contact, at first, even if their functional ordering otherwise indicates their type.

    Moreover, before his disorder got really bad, Hughes was always hanging around in parties and dating tons of Hollywood stars, often at the same time - - that does sound more like what an ENFj than an INTj would do. Of course his money and position helped, but he did seem to be able to charm those women, and other people.

    Hughes's disorder was compulsive-obsessive, to which ENFjs are said to be particularly prone to, and in his isolation he lived in total chaos regarding his person and personal surroundings -- that is, like having zero .

    Also, even during the worst of his isolation, he still kept writing memos and contacting people by phone, all the time, which sounds extroverted.

    And would an INTj feel inclined to do all the first experimental flights of his planes himself?

    It's difficult to type someone of his position and personality disorder, but altogether I think ENFj is more likely than INTj.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Regarding The Aviator - - I think it's mostly accurate regarding the facts it relates, as far as they go, since they also leave out many things. I don't think it's as accurate in its portrayal of Hughes and other people.

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    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    INTp

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    I think ENFj makes a lot of sense. He had an enormous Si issues - Wikipedia makes it sound like almost all of his problems were related to Si.

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    Actually I changed my views on Hughes - and Socionics - a lot since I wrote the posts above.

    I now think that ENTp is the likeliest type for Hughes.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    He was close friends with Katherine Hepburn, whom Rick typed as ENFp. After watching "The Aviator", I think it is possible that both of them are look-a-likes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Actually I changed my views on Hughes - and Socionics - a lot since I wrote the posts above.

    I now think that ENTp is the likeliest type for Hughes.
    Why?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Actually I changed my views on Hughes - and Socionics - a lot since I wrote the posts above.

    I now think that ENTp is the likeliest type for Hughes.
    Agreed. I think the Si-PoLR call is a kind of easy cop-out for his OCD/hypochondria, and his values were clearly Alpha, IMO.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
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    INTJ seems fine to me.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    First impression was ENTx for me.

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    Default Howard Hughes



    Howard Hughes: American business magnate, investor, record-setting pilot, engineer, film director, and philanthropist, "known during his lifetime as one of the most financially successful individuals in the world." Later in life, he became known for his eccentric behavior and reclusive lifestyle.

    One of the 20th century’s most fascinating figures, Howard Hughes was a tremendously successful businessman, notable for doing well in numerous unrelated areas, including film, aerospace, real estate, and hotels, innovating (and making loads of money) in each. He was a generous philanthropist, supporting medical research after his parents died of an ectopic pregnancy and a heart attack, respectively, while Hughes was a teenager. At one point, he was considered the richest self-made man in the world (although, like most self-made men, he inherited a successful business from his father.) And he dated a parade of movie stars, including Bette Davis, Ava Gardner, Katharine Hepburn, and Ginger Rogers. But Hughes is equally famous for the last 10 years of his life, when chronic pain and obsessive-compulsive disorder turned him into a germophobic recluse.
    Martin Scorsese's biopic of Hughes was called The Aviator for a reason. While Hughes was successful in many areas, he was legendary in the field of aviation. He not only flew several record-setting flights, he did so in planes his company built and he had a hand in designing. The speed record he set in 1935 was the last record set in a plane built by an individual; subsequent records have been set by military aircraft. The Hughes H-1 Racer set a speed record the first time it flew; Hughes flew the plane until it ran out of fuel, and managed to crash land without injuring himself or the plane. His first words upon leaving the cockpit were, “We can fix her. She'll go faster.” Not content to test and fly airplanes, Hughes also bought TWA in 1939 and ran it for 17 years.
    The OCD that dominated Hughes' later life seemed to be present early on. Even as a young man, Hughes was fixated on seemingly trivial details—one of his favorite foods was peas, but he became preoccupied with sorting them by size. He was reportedly extremely difficult to work for as a film director, as he would get hung up on minute details for long stretches. In 1947, Hughes went to a local screening room and ended up staying for four months straight, watching movies constantly, consuming only chicken, milk, and chocolate, and writing instructions that he was to be neither spoken to nor looked at.
    https://aux.avclub.com/follow-the-ou...how-1798286698

    Howard Hughes once became quite fond of Baskin-Robbins Banana Nut ice cream, so his aides tried to purchase a bulk shipment for him. Sadly, they discovered the flavor had been discontinued. They put in a request for the smallest amount the company could provide for a special order, 350 gallons (1,300 Liters). It was shipped from Los Angeles to Las Vegas, where Hughes lived at the time on the top floor of the Desert Inn. That's the hotel he bought after they tried to evict him. A few days after the order arrived, Hughes announced he was tired of Banana Nut and only wanted French Vanilla ice cream. The Desert Inn ended up distributing free Banana Nut ice cream to casino customers for a full year until the 350 gallons were gone.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard..._Vegas_recluse

    Type thoughts?

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    ENTj

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    In the Aviator - at least- he is depicted as not having a richness of social skills and progressively isolating himself, perhaps an NT type and I lean alpha because his ideas and endeavors stood apart from his environment which is much more of a Ne theme. At least that's how he is depicted in the movie. Other sources i'm not as familiar with and for the moment my interest in him is not that great as to go to any length to research him. Hope this helps somewhat
    "Inasmuch as it is nothing but pure communicability, every face, even the most noble and beautiful, is always suspended on the edge of an abyss"

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    Quote Originally Posted by hag View Post
    thanks Delilah

    before I did any research I thought him LIE, like a poster-boy LIE, but as I read more i'm opening up to other possibilities. I am so disillusioned after reading this bio on him lol, he had serious problems in his relationships with women.
    I think that having "serious problems in his relationships with women" is not type-related.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hag View Post
    lol i know. i didn't mean to imply that
    Maybe I incorrectly inferred what you did not imply.

    While Hughes displayed many LIE traits, he also displayed some ILI traits. In particular, his preference for extroverted blonde actresses who, once "captured", were increasingly ignored. (The Aggressor should chase the Victim, you know.) He also VI's somewhere between LIE and ILI, IMO. But, I think the overall argument for LIE is more convincing. He focused very strongly on doing big, showy things in the external world for many years, which is much more LIE than ILI.

    *EDIT*
    I just watched the three videos above, and in the second two, Hughes sometimes displays microexpressions exactly like those I see on a friend of mine, whom I type as LSE-Te, but who might, possibly, be LIE-Te. My friend is worth quite a bit of money, so that might be the cause of the overlap, or it might just be the pure Te.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 11-29-2018 at 02:12 AM.

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    ^ how did you figure that 'capturing" extraverted blonde actresses is an ILI thing? Are you being serious btw? He is far from gamma IMO and NE all the way
    "Inasmuch as it is nothing but pure communicability, every face, even the most noble and beautiful, is always suspended on the edge of an abyss"

    They asked the fox, "Who's your witness?" The fox said, "My tail!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delilah View Post
    ^ how did you figure that 'capturing" extraverted blonde actresses is an ILI thing? Are you being serious btw? He is far from gamma IMO and NE all the way
    Most of the SEE females I've met have been impossible to ignore. ILI's just go for them, as a rule.
    However, while I haven't ever dated a female SEE, I can see the attraction.

    And yes, I'm serious about Hughes being LIE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Most of the SEE females I've met have been impossible to ignore. ILI's just go for them, as a rule.

    And yes, I'm serious about Hughes being LIE.
    You misunderstand me Adam, and it wouldn't be the first time either, but it's ok. What i meant is: it seems a very superficial way to type someone ILI because they "capture" extraverted blondes, therefore, I assumed you weren't serious.

    Again, my only source is the movie but in it the character developed very bizarre relationship to food and general hygiene (if i recall correctly). That is not a NI/SE type imo.
    "Inasmuch as it is nothing but pure communicability, every face, even the most noble and beautiful, is always suspended on the edge of an abyss"

    They asked the fox, "Who's your witness?" The fox said, "My tail!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delilah View Post
    You misunderstand me Adam, and it wouldn't be the first time either, but it's ok. What i meant is: it seems a very superficial way to type someone ILI because they "capture" extraverted blondes, therefore, I assumed you weren't serious.
    No problem, @Delilah. My typing methods are not very Ti, I'll admit it. Lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delilah View Post
    Again, my only source is the movie but in it the character developed very bizarre relationship to food and general hygiene (if i recall correctly). That is not a NI/SE type imo.
    Sounds like it could be Si-PoLR to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hag View Post
    the impression i'm getting so far is that, aside from being a dickhead, he wasn't very discerning in his personal relationships which to me points to low Fi

    the author of the bio i'm reading theorizes that his mom set a bad example for him in his childhood (she was extremely smothering and controlling, like checking his feces controlling) but i dont know if i agree with that.
    While being a dickhead isn't confined to the LIE type, there is quite a bit of overlap.
    Every LIE I know is a dickhead. Some are more obvious about it than others, but they all are.

    Also, not being discerning in interpersonal relationships is said by Strat to be a characteristic of LIE's, and is actually one of the major things mentioned in the list of things that ESI's help them with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    No problem, @Delilah. My typing methods are not very Ti, I'll admit it. Lol.


    Sounds like it could be Si-PoLR to me.
    But i don't care about Ti Adam. I mean, as a Te lead, surely you must have some data? Like do you know any facts about this guy? Have you read anything in particular that could potentially be relevant? I'd like to see you back your typing up with smth, even if it's just something from the movie.
    "Inasmuch as it is nothing but pure communicability, every face, even the most noble and beautiful, is always suspended on the edge of an abyss"

    They asked the fox, "Who's your witness?" The fox said, "My tail!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delilah View Post
    But i don't care about Ti Adam. I mean, as a Te lead, surely you must have some data? Like do you know any facts about this guy? Have you read anything in particular that could potentially be relevant? I'd like to see you back your typing up with smth, even if it's just something from the movie.
    Aside from the stuff that hag mentioned, there's this:
    I know that one of the things he did to set the speed record in flying was to countersink the rivets used in holding a plane's aluminum panels on the stringers and runners. Previously, rivets were protruding ovals which were just mushed out. That is exactly something that I would do.
    One time, when he was refused service in a hotel, he bought the place. Also something that I'd be inclined to do, assuming I had his kind of money. That is not Se, which would be to demand service on the spot. That is outmaneuvering your enemies and boxing them in with contracts, which is Gamma.

    What do you see that is Ne? He pretty much set a few goals for himself and then realized them. He didn't switch careers with every change of season.

    Yes, he went through a bunch of women but claimed perfect loyalty to them while they were his GF's. That is actually what I am doing right now, and have always done, when I wasn't married. But having serial relationships is not really Ne, I think. Unless it is unvalued Ne. It is more about not having a clue as to what you want.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Aside from the stuff that hag mentioned, there's this:
    I know that one of the things he did to set the speed record in flying was to countersink the rivets used in holding a plane's aluminum panels on the stringers and runners. Previously, rivets were protruding ovals which were just mushed out. That is exactly something that I would do.
    One time, when he was refused service in a hotel, he bought the place. Also something that I'd be inclined to do, assuming I had his kind of money. That is not Se, which would be to demand service on the spot. That is outmaneuvering your enemies and boxing them in with contracts, which is Gamma.

    What do you see that is Ne? He pretty much set a few goals for himself and then realized them. He didn't switch careers with every change of season.

    Well, apart from the last bit, fair enough - at least i've seen you add something - though it is still highly subjective to say that This guy did something you would do and that makes him same type as you. In other words you are using yourself as the measuring stick for type.

    Don't know how to comment on him buying the place - apart from good on him(!) - but if we are now using ourselves as measuring sticks for type, sure - i too would buy the fuck out of a place that refused me service have i had the money to do so! Does that make him EII (or delta NF) now? I doubt it.

    As for NE, i already said that his endeavors seemed very much 'apart from" the setting/environment he operated in. This, IMO, is NE.

    Now to go back to the last bit where you say NE changes careers with the seasons, that might have a grain of truth for the extroverts, but not the LII and EII imo. And even for the extroverts i think it applies to the extroverted subtype mostly. Besides, the guy we are talking about seems operated in various fields, from entertainment to hospitality and many more - now why couldn't that be NE? I'm saying that it *might* be. Being deep in so many fields at once could be Ne? If not, why not?

    At least you offered something this time! Thanks.
    "Inasmuch as it is nothing but pure communicability, every face, even the most noble and beautiful, is always suspended on the edge of an abyss"

    They asked the fox, "Who's your witness?" The fox said, "My tail!"

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    I like his intense eyes.

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    THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE THE WAY OF THE FUTURE

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