Caution: Metaphysical Bullshit - where did socionics come from?

[Cone]

Thank you, Krstina for not making me feel like an old coot who doesn't belong here.

As far as Santanism, there is probably more honesty there than in Christianity. I too had to quit church as I couldn't stomach the untruths and lies.

I do beilieve in capital punishment, killing or murder if it is in the best interest of the masses, such as assassination. And take out all the drug lords you want, too! You have to have a solid belief foundation in what happens after life no longer sustains the human body. To me, life does not end. My body changes; enables, nourishes and continues other life, but life continues and is neither added to or diminished in any way. Does it surprise anyone that both Cone (perhaps he still does) and I both wanted to be assassins or contract killers at one time? And that doesn't make us bad or evil people. Perhaps just more level-headed and realistic than most. Although I think Cone would take out people that simply annoyed him! (Did I just cease to exist?!)

The cross is a symbol of destruction and hartred, ignorance and death. There is no life in it. The cross represents the heroics of a gentle Jew who loved all men, had ached and suffered for all men, but who died on a piece of wood hoping that he had lifted man from darkness and death. He was sadly mistaken.

“How Christians (and Islamics!) can read their Bible and hate afterwards is one of the more jovial paradoxes, and also the most tragic. They detest everybody not of their particular sect. It is almost impossible to find a Christian among Christians.” Taylor Caldwell

“One should never take religion seriously. It can interfere with a pleasant life.” TC

And my favorite: "God is a metaphor for what we cannot understand."
(And just an excuse for Guest!)

"We live and die for nothing. We invent gods when we can't stand the thought of the nothingness, the barreness, the unreason, and we worship them when we can't bear living in a void any longer, when something piteously human cries out in us for consolation for what we see and suffer. Religion is the real unreason, but God help us, we can't be absolutely sane for too long at a time, or too often." TC (again)

Cone's Mom

PS. Do you think Guest is an INFP? He is pushy like me!

[MysticSonic]

No, I don't think he's an INFp.

[Cone]

You said it!!!

From 'Lady of Avalon'

What existed in the beginning? Try to imagine -- an emptiness, a gaping nothing. A teeming womb pregnant with the world. If you can imagine it, already it existed in potential, and yet it was like nothing you can imagine, for it was the Force, it was the Void. It was it was Not . . . An eternal, changless Unity.

But there came a moment of difference -- a vibration stirred in stillness --

An indrawn breath in silent shout,
And that which was contained flares out --
Divine Darkness and Supernal Light,
Time and Space appear in might.

Sea of Space and Primal Night,
Womb of Darkness and of Light;
Formless flex, eternal rest,
Matrix from which all matter manifests;
Comic Mother, the Great Deep
Whence life emerges and returns to sleep.

Wind of Time, eternal Day,
Staff of Life, I am the Way;
Word of Power, primal spark,
Igniting act and motion in it's arc;
Cosmic Father, radient nod
Source of Energy, seed of God.

Cone's Mom

[Creepy-]

................
Wind of Time, eternal Day,
Staff of Life, I am the Way;
Word of Power, primal spark,
Igniting act and motion in it's arc;
Cosmic Father, radient nod
Source of Energy, seed of God.

Cone's Mom

Are the words "Cone's Mom" part of the poem? I had a good laugh seeing that at the end!

Anyway, I wish I could comment on some of this stuff, but people's beliefs are thier beliefs and nothing will ever change them except g...umm...ahhhh...errrrr....you know..... :wink:

[Transigent]

Edited for gayness.

[Cone]

It's impossible to talk to someone who is so obviously not well read, or read at all. AGAIN! AGAIN! AGAIN! . . . God is a metaphor for what we cannot understand -- YET!

'God' in my writing does NOT refer to a deity of any sort. It is a name/definition for the CAUSE OF THE UNIVERSE THAT HAS NO MEANING WHAT SO EVER.

You may read the posts here but it's clearly obvious you have no understanding whatsoever of what anyone is talking about. You have no intention of making an attempt at understanding or giving it a good thought! That poem/quote was a beautiful explaination of the origins of the universe. God as a deity doesn't read here!

Laugh all you want to . . . your ignorance is showing!

CONE'S MOM

Well, I lost my temper. Shame on me. Gotta get outta here!

ISN'T THIS A SOCIONICS FORUM?????

[Transigent]

Edited for gayness.

[Cone]

You are forgiven, thought you were THAT Guest.

Just a typical INFP here. I fly off the handle at the slightest perceived provacation. Hair-trigger temper, you know. Thought Guest was jumping on the 'God' word. I'm going to use a word here that I do not allow in my house. Cone would get his mouth smacked if he used it. Here goes, I HATE (oh, another one of those words!) STUPID people. Perhaps that's why I wanted to be an assassin?

How could I ever be upset with you? You're one of Cone's favorites.

Mom

(Just this one more time, Cone. You can write in my book all you want!)

[Hugo]

People were created by evolution.

That is a logically flawed argument. Also your knowledge/understanding of Islam seems to be insufficient for you to make such comments as you have.

The cause of the universe and the big bang is....THE UNIVERSE! I don't see how a self-causing universe is any less likely to exist than a self-causing, personal diety.

It seem you are using an argument that has no meaning and is redundant, because what you are saying is that the cause of the universe is the universe. Remember God is not self-causing but is eternal.

Also Cone's Mom has contradicted herself as I mentioned before.

[Hugo]

People were created by evolution.

That is a logically flawed argument. Also your knowledge/understanding of Islam seems to be insufficient for you to make such comments as you have.

The cause of the universe and the big bang is....THE UNIVERSE! I don't see how a self-causing universe is any less likely to exist than a self-causing, personal diety.

It seem you are using an argument that has no meaning and is redundant, because what you are saying is that the cause of the universe is the universe. Remember God is not self-causing but is eternal.

Also Cone's Mom has contradicted herself as I mentioned before.

[Black Molly]

edited

[MysticSonic]

"It seem you are using an argument that has no meaning and is redundant, because what you are saying is that the cause of the universe is the universe. Remember God is not self-causing but is eternal. "

No, you don't understand: my point is that the universe that exists now is the result of the universe that existed prior. Like God, the universe is ETERNAL, it is merely the state tha the universe is in that changes.

[Black Molly]

edited

[Creepy-]

dfgdf

[Black Molly]

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[Hugo]

To Guest:

You use God as an answer to everything as if it explains anything.

Why do you believe as you do? ...

Oh, I don't see my contraditions. Perhaps you are not reading and thinking as carefully as you could?

I have explained how God is the creator of the universe, and that our purpose/meaning of life is to do with God. What's wrong with using God to explain the origin of the universe and the purpose of life?

Apparent Contradiction:

On the one hand you talk about the Prime Mover. But you also said:

Deities are created by our belieif in them. Nothing more!

Correct me if I'm wrong but your statements seem to contradict each other.

[Hugo]

The cause of the universe and the big bang is....THE UNIVERSE!

... my point is that the universe that exists now is the result of the universe that existed prior. Like God, the universe is ETERNAL, it is merely the state tha the universe is in that changes.

What you are describing is perpetual motion. Of course this is a flawed argument and an impossibility.

If you can make a petrol motion machine, which of course is impossible, I might give the theory further consideration.

[Creepy-]

ffgdfg

[Black Molly]

edited

[Black Molly]

edited

[Black Molly]

edited

[MysticSonic]

"What you are describing is perpetual motion. Of course this is a flawed argument and an impossibility.

If you can make a petrol motion machine, which of course is impossible, I might give the theory further consideration."

Perpetual motion? You know, like I said before, the physical laws of the universe DIDN'T APPLY TO THE BEGINNING OF THE UNIVERSE. THINK YOUR STATEMENTS THROUGH.

Edit- And before you make a play on the semantics of my statement, when I say "the beginning of the Universe", I mean the moment in which the universe came to be in the state that roughly resembles what it's like today; the state of being which included space and time.

[Hugo]

MS said:

You know, like I said before, the physical laws of the universe DIDN'T APPLY TO THE BEGINNING OF THE UNIVERSE.

As I said before:

So what you are saying is, is that at one point there was

- no time
- no space
- no laws of the universe

This means that at one point there was no universe, since the universe is made up of these three things.

[MysticSonic]

There was energy.

[Hugo]

And before you make a play on the semantics of my statement, when I say "the beginning of the Universe", I mean the moment in which the universe came to be in the state that roughly resembles what it's like today; the state of being which included space and time.

How can "the beginning of the universe" mean "the moment in which the universe came to be in the state that roughly resembles what it's like today". Beginning means beginning.

[MysticSonic]

I was stating that's not what I meant.

In other words, replace "the beginning of the universe" with "the time in which the universe was NOTin the state that roughly resembles what it's like today; the state of being which included space and time."

[Hugo]

There was energy.

Energy is a fundamental quantity that every physical system possesses.

According to you there was no time or space at the beginning of the universe. That would mean there was no physical system. Since there was no physical system at the beginning of the universe, there could be no energy.

That would mean that energy is a creation...a creation of God.

[MysticSonic]

"According to you there was no time or space at the beginning of the universe. That would mean there was no physical system."

"Energy is a fundamental quantity that every physical system possesses. "

This is true.

"According to you there was no time or space at the beginning of the universe.""

This is true.

"That would mean there was no physical system."

If you're stating that a physical system is one that POSSESES space and time, sure.

"Since there was no physical system at the beginning of the universe, there could be no energy."

How do you go from "energy is a fundamental quantity that every physical system posseses" to "energy exists ONLY in physical systems" as you define it? That, my friend, is an assumption.

[Creepy-]

Energy is defined as the amount of work required to change the state of a physical system.

Therefore there can be no energy without a physical system, and vice versa.

A physical system cannot exist without space, time or laws.

A system is based on laws/rules.

As you have said, there were no laws/rules at the beginning of the universe. This would mean that there was no energy, because:

"Energy is a fundamental quantity that every physical system possesses"

[Creepy-]

A physical system must exist for energy to exist because:

"Energy is defined as the amount of work required to change the state of a physical system."

There is no energy without a physical system.

[MysticSonic]

I don't really understand ALL of the ins-and-outs of the big bang, but I was under the impression that matter holds energy within it, and thus, since there WAS matter, although it existed in the state of being a singularity, so I assumed one could only, rightly, call that energy. I suppose I was wrong.

Anyway, this entire discussion on the nature of energy is pointless; I posited earlier a SUPERNATURAL cause to the beginning of the universe, with this supernatural cause allowing for said "perpetual motion."

With that said, the posited supernatural cause doesn't neccessarily have to be a deity; it could be a supernatural "material" of some sort, or better said, an objective entity.

It's kind of funny, you know, you attempting to put natural restraints on something that is inherently supernatural by using that perpetual motion argument. It had more for a moment.

[Creepy-]

So there was no energy at one point which means that it was created by God.

[MysticSonic]

It was "caused" to exist by a supernatural material.

[MysticSonic]

"Extrapolated into the past, these observations show that the universe has expanded from a primeval state, in which the all the matter and energy in the universe was at an immense temperature and density"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_bang

Interesting. It seems that there WAS energy in that singularity.

[MysticSonic]

And this always confuses me: how is it a singularity if it was only 'extremely dense" not "infinitely dense"? This is one thing I fail to understand about the big-bang theory.

[Creepy-]

It was "caused" to exist by a supernatural material.

Supernatural suggest something that is not material.

If a person studies everything that materially exists in nature they will find that it is ingenious. This can be noticed in the human cell, the digestive system. the solar system, eco systems, etc.

This ingeniousness belongs to an intelligent "being" and not merely a "force". That being is God. Creation requires intelligence. God created the universe.

Just like the universe is governed by rules, human being need to live by a system/rules.

[MysticSonic]

What, do you ENJOY stacking the deck? I also said: "or better said, an objective entity."

I still can't see why a SUPUERNATURAL, OBJECTIVE entity couldn't have made things as they are now if the nature of the supernatural objective object's existence would cause things to exist as it is.

[Creepy-]

fsfdf

[MysticSonic]

Mystical experiences often cause people to believe in that which is unfalsifiable, such as God.

[Hugo]

I have never had a mystical experience, whatever that means, but I know that God exists. The creation of God points to God's existance.