- Being bossyOriginally Posted by None
- Talking extensively about things that are trivial
- Being bossy
- Talking extensively about things that are trivial
Just don't like, be stand-offish. Introverts become very resentful when their duals don't seem to be taking them seriously.
Cursing at her.
Throwing a tantrum and walking away.
Making her cry by ignoring her.
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Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
lol, Maritsa you've dated some shitty guys haven't you?
No one wants to be cursed at, I agree.. but why would you cry for that?
I've seen some really mean people. An LSE dual I dated said to me...
"We'll see each other on occasion."
I thought, "please explain what that means."
Response, "I change my mind. I don't even want to see you on occasion. Don't contact me again."
Talk about dating a bunch of ass holes who can't grow up and who have maturity of very obnoxious seven year olds.
*Just waiting for the right dual to show up. One who knows themselves well and who's mature. One who knows to control themselves before they control others.* Yeah, I know. Too much to ask for.
I wouldn't, but I've seen a lot of women made to cry. I guess it's out of that whole abusive thing, where she knows he's not good for her but claims she loves him nevertheless.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I don't mind guys who deliver mail (God bless them.. we've seen what happens when they crack), but I kind of like the high speed car races. No mountains here, but I used to like driving on dirt roads and creeks. Some of my friends still remind of this time I launched and bashed their heads on my roof. I feel bad about it though.
Just try to avoid using your id functions (+
), and try to find some common area of interest. Then you should do fine.
Thanks for the help folks.
I won´t do these . These are quite easy. Should I be totally open about my feelings or indirectly open abt them? Which approach female INFJs prefer? The feelings are, in this case, very deep and even romantic. I´m afraid she could be kind of scared of having all this 'weight' thrown into her at once, that I'm totally in love with her. Better to show care and affection and not talk too much instead, let her 'feel' that what I'm feeling is serious? She's intuitive and feeling type and dual. She should be able to read me well, if already did not do so. ???
The usually shit that fucks up a date is not good even when you are duals.
So just approach her like you would approach a friend of yours.
Friendly etc.
Don't try to hit on her, score, make a lot of compliments etc. That's not necessery.
I once read in a MBTI description that INFJ's like it when you are on time on a date, just act causual and that they have no more demands. They were least demanding of all types.
From my personal experience with dating INFJ's, they like to have dinner or go see a movie and drink afterwards or have a walk, they don't want to make it too late, they want a first date not at their house. They are pretty bossy/controlling themselves I found out, so you don't necesseraly have to think you are the boss and take the lead.
ha WRONG
esp for an undualized LSE.
Don't be crass, even in the back of your mind. Yes, there is generally an inclination to seem like a sweet guy, but, being around other crass people can leave a residual inclination.
that's a start
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Feel in that sense meaning feel their blood and tears on your fists.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
You sound so jaded, Maritsa.
You must be pretty courageous... but...
I hope you find better guys soon. You'll turn lesbian at this rate : /
]
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Yeah, basically, don't seem too harsh or "UNBENDING AND RIGID" in thought patterns. Don't talk about how you kill people for a living. Don't try to grind them verbally or interrogate them (not that you'd be inclined to).Just try to avoid using your id functions (
Find a common area of interest.
Also, if you're interested in a monogamous long term relationship or marriage, don't be afraid to say so. Even if an EII doesn't want that herself right now, I think she'll respect you more if you're upfront about what you want relationally - if you make it clear for her and are honest, it will make things go more smoothly (that goes for most people but I think EIIs will appreciate that). If you just want to be friends or have a social relationship, say so. The more seriously you take your relationships in whatever form, the more chances you'll be respected because of it.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
DO NOT ARGUE WITH THEM IF THEY SAY THEY ARE NOT PRETTY.
At least, after some initial insistence on your part, don't dwell on trying to 'convince them'. Just trust me. If they are set on 'not being pretty', it can just be a weird, drawn out process of trying to convince them somehow and them not really accepting or believing it.
Subtle compliments that are seen as sincere over flattery often work better at honestly conveying an appreciation for just about anything, especially physical things.
Generally speaking, be prepared to take things slow - not just relationally but physically. You likely will have to be the one to initiate a lot of physical contact, but don't be forceful - be supportive and caring. And check often, even directly or verbally, about her comfort level. Depending on what you want from the relationship or encounter, well, if you want something serious expect things to unfold slowly and take time - they'll want to actually get to know you in the real sense of getting to know you.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
thanks Ryu.
one more thing, what abt the place? I initially suggested a lake nearby, in which there are some small restaurants that we can sit at and talk. But then I was thinking afterwards it´s summer and very hot here (100ºF during the day) so probably we would end up sweating a bit. Even though this is usually no big deal for people who live here, it would be a more informal/nature-like date. Is this best or is it best to choose a closed, air-conditioned place like somewhere in a shopping mall (there are many huge ones here)? Would she find the lake less comfortable and the shopping mall/closed space better, as we can dress up better and it´s not hot?
That's a very pretty setting.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
As to initiating contact, I was the first to start contact when we first met. I realized she gets totally passive when it comes to deciding when/where/how and also when/where/how to start physical contact. Seems she enjoys me to take the lead in almost everything. She kind of enjoys the bossy personality not being bossy in a bad sense but taking the lead affirmatively. She seemed ready to accept whatever I suggested as for place/time. But I don´t want to be controlling. She needs hugs
Eh, to be stereotypical, I'd pick someplace that is more private and comfortable rather than someplace out in the open. Not just sweating but less clothing might be more inclined to make an EII uncomfortable.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
yeah...more clothing the more comfortable. Thanks
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I haven't met an NF female who is otherwise in regard to "she kind of enjoys the bossy personality not being bossy in a bad sense but taking the lead affirmatively." - and NO that doesn't mean nfs or EIIs are doormats and compliant. It has to do with receptivity to other people's wants, and their more secure feeling of being able to fulfill them.As to initiating contact, I was the first to start contact when we first met. I realized she gets totally passive when it comes to deciding when/where/how and also when/where/how to start physical contact. Seems she enjoys me to take the lead in almost everything. She kind of enjoys the bossy personality not being bossy in a bad sense but taking the lead affirmatively. She seemed ready to accept whatever I suggested as for place/time. But I don´t want to be controlling. She needs hugs
The worst would be presenting NO wants to them, although it would actually be worse to abusively only pursue your own wants. Where as that might be fun and challenging to a more classic victim type, to a delta NF that will ultimately wear them down because they can sort of refuse to pursue their own actual needs at times.
PS: sounds like you're in good shape. Just don't steamroll her - 'lead responsibly and check for consent', and you'll be fine. Hugs are good stuff.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Ah wow you just made me change my mind just before I called her lol... thanks for that. Closed space then, more clothing, more formal. It´s not what I particularly prefer, but no big deal. Probably the lake thing intimidated her. But I want a place that I can hug and kiss her. Not sure a closed space like a restaurant would be good for that. By the lake we could walk away from the restaurant and hug/kiss (actually the lake is my favorite dating place because of this).
When you ask her what type of place she'd like to go, does she ever say anything? Try to coax some favorites out of her, although this can be very hard to do (*AHEM TO CERTAIN EII ON FORUM*).
Experiment, also, with things that will go outside of their perceived comfort zone, just to test. Just be cautious and try to determine whether or not they are ripe for a BIG SURPRISE or an incremental adjustment. Probably more so the latter, but don't be afraid of the former.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
No, be who you are. Do what you want to do with her. She'll either like it or won't and that will tell you if she's right for you or not.
I would say, "let's go walking." It's cheap and fun.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
See, EIIs can be cheap and fun.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
LOL...yesterday I called her she didn´t pick up then she called me in the evening and she was like, totally passive. Totally unlike women I date in general, and I love this. She was like, 'yes, I'm free tomorrow'. I asked her if she had some place in mind she said 'well no, what do you think?'. She seems to have close to zero imposition of her will, but this is a risk, as she's very sensitive, I don't want her to feel insecure/threatened by me and just retreat out gasping for air. I´m fairly sure she's an E6, though E2 is possible.
Maritsa, go for a walk? At tropical sun and 100ºF? This would be good if she were some of the more promiscuous types, although she would enjoy seeing my ST ability in physical exercise, I'm quite sure she wouldn't like to walk a lot herself. She already knows me well as I said and she knows I'm her dual. The thing is what NOT to do. She said she might go to a carnival party today with her girl friends yesterday and I didn´t want to impose anything on her and she said 'are you free sunday' and I said yes but actually only at night as it's my father's birthday. I am trying to be as flexible as possible not to let her feel overgripped.
E6s usually seem more security oriented at least in that they would rather figure something out or discuss something. I'd almost consider E9 based off of what I know - they (as in, E1w9 EIIs) can typically have a hard time imposing wills or telling what their wants are.
Also, I Don't know what culture you're coming from, but, I almost wonder if she's more shy than usual, or even more shy than a typical person of her type would be. That's somethign you'd have to know based on your own culture and experiences, though, I guess.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Well all this overplanning is making me feel weak. As a man I'm just going to call her and be the gentleman I can be and see what happens.
Invite her over and be doing work on your house or for your family without your shirt on, something physical.
lol
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Of course, in reality it's not that big a deal. I'm just thinking about how fun it can be to date EIIs.
Have a good time.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Perhaps E9, yes. Wouldn´t rule out E1. Anyway, this is a latin culture and very informal and kind of promiscuous. She's a lot more sensitive and a bit more shy than girls here in general. She's definitely not a typical brazilian from Rio, like I am not also.
ahhh, ok. That makes sense.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Hopefully I'm not too late to this party. Ryu has some good pointers, but I'd like to add something, too.
There's this interesting conflict I have with regard to clarity and, well, um, too much clarity. I like when people can just say how they feel or think about something; no wiffle-waffling or trying to be overly subtle. And, yet, I would probably freak out a little (internally at least) if someone came up to me and seriously told me they were in love with me, especially if there was no gradual lead up to that. IMO, a first date (even second, third, fourth, fifth...) is too soon for that. In my head I'd be thinking, "Ahhh! What do I do with this? How do I respond? *panic*"
I wouldn't want to outright reject the person, but neither would I feel comfortable responding in kind because for me it takes me a little while to work to that place myself. So I think it's good that you're recognizing the "weight" of it.
If you do talk about how you feel about her, I'd stay pretty matter-of-fact about it, at least initially. And then follow up with caring actions, perhaps clarifying every so often (but not every time) that you're doing whatever it is because you care about her. If/when people do that for me I tend to feel warm fuzzies and want to reciprocate. Words are good, but actions speak louder and provide proof (I think it even indicates that in some INFj profile).
However, I'd caution against saying nothing at all and expecting her to read your mind. She might pick up on things, yes, but I at least tend to second guess my own feelings and intuition sometimes, especially if it's something important. "Possibilities", as helpful as they can be, also can confuse me. That's why clarity on your part is so important. Understated, demonstrated clarity.
Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.
I've wondered about this, too. I'm pretty sure EIIs prefer the former, but it may not be wise.
INFj on duality
Offering a sincere heartfelt apology is one way
Someone switch my brain out with a meaner person please. EII need to not be nice and caring. We need to be horrid mean wenches.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
ESTj, LSE (PS) – INFj, EII (RI)
These qualities make LSE a very demanding and uncompromising person. He needs a partner who would correspond to his notions of duty, trustworthiness, loyalty. This should be a diligent, responsive, honest and fair person, who is interested in improving his own skills and qualifications.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
LSE and EII duality
So, LSE coworker comes to the company christmas party and it's no spouses so he didn't bring his wife. After a few hard drinks he starts to get highly internally emotional and his feelings, which he normally keeps under wraps, as all LSE do, start to come out and he wants to talk about his frustrated relationship with his wife, SEE personality type. I see him from across the room. He's become quiet, usually he laughs and jokes, and finds things to be funny and roles with them. He's become very quiet and not engaging with anyone at the table. I hold out my two fingers on either side of my cheeks and twist them. That is saying "smile!" in a NON DEMANDING WAY LOL (that's for all the ass holes on this forum - some of who think they know me who have never met me). He took my lead in this very gentle sway and he smiled. I walked over to him later on and said "home problems again?" he confirmed that. I said "you're here now." I feel that sometimes I have to remind him to live in the moment
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
EII
How do you interact with LSE?
Describe some of their negative emotions...
What do you say when they have built up negative emotions?
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I'm not EII, so my opinion doesn't count, but I think it's best to just fight fire with fire in some of those situations. If they get angry because the walls haven't been scrubbed down to their specifications, get angry back at them and tell them to scrub the damn walls themselves if it pisses them off so much.
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