Deltas your views and experiences with Fe

[InkStrider]

So much of this theoretical stuff is mumbo jumbo to me. All this talk on emotion is making me sick.

My experience with Alpha Fe:
They don't coax emotions out of you (or not try hard anyway). They do take take note of your external moods though, and might make reference to it at a later time. In which you may want to explain your mood to them and get lots of sympathy, or whatever appropriate emotions to suit your outpouring.

You are expected however to join in the mood and contribute to the positive group atmosphere during social occasions or they'd feel disappointed and may consider you a spoilsport, making a mental note not to ask you out again. It's just important for them to have group fun, so it'd be wise not to spoil it too much.

My experience with Beta Fe:
Emotion with a more piercing and psychological quality. The healthy ones have more respect for your personal boundaries and venture in to make a joke or two on particularly perceptive insights about you which you might not have realized, which can be interesting and make you laugh at yourself. The unhealthy ones want to hit you where they suspect it hurts so that they can see your reaction and discover your emotional vulnerabilities and insecurities. With these individuals, I keep a wary eye and avoid where possible.

Beta Fe types can be sneaky in getting you to reveal your emotions, as they feel that there are always psychological buttons to push in order to get a particular reaction: whether positive or negative. If they can't find yours, they just push harder with increasing frequency. Do this too much on a Delta ST or Fe PoLR, and it'll likely result in a) rage or b) shutting down depending on the enneatype. They seem to equate the amount of psychological buttons they gather of you to the level they know/understand you. Don't allow them any and they don't feel like they "know" you and it pisses them off because it's their main mode/approach of feeling they know a person.

Deltas however don't view the getting-to-know-you process in such a manner. It is the gradual process of feeling safe and comfortable with the presence of another, that mutual self-disclosure is allowed to occur naturally resulting in trust and increased willingness for self-disclosure. This creates a reinforcing cycle of trust, mutual support and unspoken understanding. What some Betas fail to understand is that you can't get a Delta ST to open up without them first feeling comfortable with you, resulting in inevitable conflict and ever-increasing frustration.

[Beautiful sky]

Actually, I know why now Fe isn't that important to me, it's because rules of behavior is important that isn't a primary concern of Fe types as expressed in here:

http://forum.socionix.com/topic/51-l...e-functions-i/

[InkStrider]

People should stop using theory to justify theory. It doesn't make it anymore right.

[Beautiful sky]

I've been complaining about how Fe types like my sister don't follow social norms, rules; the theory just stated what I do in a concise manner.

[anndelise]

I've been complaining about how Fe types like my sister don't follow social norms, rules; the theory just stated what I do in a concise manner.

So, you interpret Fi as creating/upholding social norms, rules?

[Beautiful sky]

Yes, I guess I do and interestingly, and TeSi tend to abide by them, but are particular about them, because they worry about how they come off to others, they don't want to be perceived as trouble makers, have bad reputations, and perceived as too rebellious.

[InkStrider]

Define social norms and rules. The example you've given on your sister relates more to the strong need to express emotion rather than having connection to social norms and rules.

[Clumsy]

Fe types like my sister

How do you interpret Fe with Ni?

[consentingadult]

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Those of you who self-type as Deltas, how do you perceive and experience ? Hod do you relate to it?

I'll share an story:

At a very large accountancy firm I worked for till 5 years ago, they held a seminar for all managers, attendance was mandatory. At the end of the second day, we were all (there were about 500 of us) gathered in a big hall, where an ILE-musician was trying to get us to do some kind of corporate team building session by having all of us play percussion instruments simultaneously. I walked out 5 minutes after it started and went home.

[consentingadult]

I've been complaining about how Fe types like my sister don't follow social norms, rules; the theory just stated what I do in a concise manner.

You mean: they don't follow your social norms and rules.

[Mediator Kam]

I think Maritsa is being a bit of a bigot. Stop the Fe hate Maritsa.

[Suz]

---

I'll share an story:

At a very large accountancy firm I worked for till 5 years ago, they held a seminar for all managers, attendance was mandatory. At the end of the second day, we were all (there were about 500 of us) gathered in a big hall, where an ILE-musician was trying to get us to do some kind of corporate team building session by having all of us play percussion instruments simultaneously. I walked out 5 minutes after it started and went home.

Teehee, sounds like an episode of "The Office".

[Joven Erudito89]

To me i think it depends on the mood I'm in.
I think both of my brothers are Alphas, and we get along very well. When I'm ready to just have fun, and enjoy myself it can help me loosen up because i am very serious. I feel like each Quadra i can get along with as long as there is some type of common ground. I think the only time it is a problem is when i want to have a more serious conversation. My brothers aren't the best people to go to (It might not be Fe in this case, and more so a gender difference). Other than that i have no problem with Fe valuing types.

[force my hand]

Those of you who self-type as Deltas, how do you perceive and experience ? Hod do you relate to it?

I understand the central role it plays in human interaction, but on a personal level it's pretty annoying for the most part. Some people mangle it and confuse it with Fi, and I also find it can be a huge obstacle to actually getting something done. I feel I have to do a lot of emotional babysitting sometimes.

[Park]

I also find it can be a huge obstacle to actually getting something done.

This is interesting, and I think I relate. Sometimes I feel pressured to make an emotional interlude or participate in pointless interaction before I "get down to business" or get to the point i.e. the important side of things. This can happen at the beginning or in the middle of interacting with certain people, and if they keep bringing attention to it I become unable to push things forward. I try to roll with it sometimes out of respect or not wanting to offend someone.

[force my hand]

This is interesting, and I think I relate. Sometimes I feel pressured to make an emotional interlude or participate in pointless interaction before I "get down to business" or get to the point i.e. the important side of things. This can happen at the beginning or in the middle of interacting with certain people, and if they keep bringing attention to it I become unable to push things forward. I try to roll with it sometimes out of respect or not wanting to offend someone.

What's also interesting is that sometimes Fe 'outbursts' can destroy the prevailing Fe atmosphere, which is... paradoxical? Perhaps only goes to reinforce my initial prejudices, at least in how I'm framing it. An example of this might be hamming it up in a serious work meeting.

[Creepy-pokeball]

Fe feels like the forced expression of emotions at every point, even the minor ones which I feel are unimportant and unworthy of expression. Which is why it feels like an exaggeration to me, making issues bigger than they really are and blowing things out of proportion. When I do express, what I do express are serious and real. When Fe types do it, I cannot trust that what they feel is really as strong as what they purport to feel in their expression. When Fi types express pain, I just know that the pain they feel is real and I take it in seriousness, even if spoken in an undertone because such is rarely expressed. When Fe types do it, I tend to have the nagging feeling that it's just another drama and might dismiss their emotional appeals like how we treat the boy who cried wolf one too many times.

You do not believe Fi is capable of deception? Gamma and Delta Fi are very different, and both can deceive, just as Te and Ti can. Fe can be just as deceptive or just as sincere. Yet, also, where is the line?

[Park]

Stop being deceptive, Jadae.

[Beautiful sky]

You do not believe Fi is capable of deception? Gamma and Delta Fi are very different, and both can deceive, just as Te and Ti can. Fe can be just as deceptive or just as sincere. Yet, also, where is the line?

I think everyone is capable of it, but my default mode is honesty and being forthright; where as others are habitual or just don't think of these things. I try to be a good person, because I think and weigh the consequences of my actions beforehand; living in the future, possible scenario, of what can happen if I'm not is something that's very painful to me and so I try to act with caution and consideration.

I look cold to an extravert, inward, and they are on a mission to awake me, but I don't want these emotions awoken because these feelings develop deeply internally. Like my LSE boyfriend, who gets swept away with enthusiasm, excitement, these emotions jump out of his skin and he's ready to act, I remain calm on the outside, even; neutral, tempered; "the relation to the object is, as far as possible, kept in a secure and tranquil middle state of feeling, where passion and it's intemperateness are resolutely proscribed."

[Creepy-pokeball]

I think everyone is capable of it, but my default mode is honesty and being forthright; where as others are habitual or just don't think of these things. I try to be a good person, because I think and weigh the consequences of my actions beforehand; living in the future, possible scenario, of what can happen if I'm not is something that's very painful to me and so I try to act with caution and consideration.

I look cold to an extravert, inward, and they are on a mission to awake me, but I don't want these emotions awoken because these feelings develop deeply internally. Like my LSE boyfriend, who gets swept away with enthusiasm, excitement, these emotions jump out of his skin and he's ready to act, I remain calm on the outside, even; neutral, tempered; "the relation to the object is, as far as possible, kept in a secure and tranquil middle state of feeling, where passion and it's intemperateness are resolutely proscribed."

So, assuming you are these things, which I'm not going to bother to filter, you are ALL Delta Fi? Its a massive fallacy.

[Creepy-pokeball]

Stop being deceptive, Jadae.

Okay, I'll use my real name next time, lol.

[Beautiful sky]

So, assuming you are these things, which I'm not going to bother to filter, you are ALL Delta Fi? Its a massive fallacy.

What do you mean? I don't understand you?

[InkStrider]

You do not believe Fi is capable of deception? Gamma and Delta Fi are very different, and both can deceive, just as Te and Ti can. Fe can be just as deceptive or just as sincere. Yet, also, where is the line?

Where did deception come about? My point was I tend not to take Fe as seriously as I do Fi.

But with regard to the topic of deception, different people would go about it differently. Not certain if it has any relation to the IEs.

[Park]

Okay, I'll use my real name next time, lol.

Now we're talking.

[Park]

So, assuming you are these things, which I'm not going to bother to filter, you are ALL Delta Fi? Its a massive fallacy.

Maritsa is a massive fallacy. Deceits herself constantly.

[Beautiful sky]

Define social norms and rules. The example you've given on your sister relates more to the strong need to express emotion rather than having connection to social norms and rules.

Social norms is anything considered common courtesy and consideration; anything that helps keep things civil; hence civilization. I promote the sense of togetherness and community; a rule? In a party or a group of people, everyone should behave civilly and not do or say things that hurt others, they should instead do so in private (I can probably make rules here too, but I don't care to tamper with private fights unless I'm invited to evaluate the good/bad and right/wrong -rational of it). My sister's lack of keeping rules in social situations would be when she starts joking and in doing so saying some pretty out of place things to rattle the environment, shift it, or provoke certain emotions from one person or many people.

[Nico1e]

Well, I've got a good reply to this now, because it's happening to me in the past couple days.

I've been crying over Steve Jobs. Grief about someone's death is a universal and inevitable thing that everybody will someday experience, unless they die first before all the other people around them. When I cry, I know that millions of other people out there are crying with me. I see the jokes about his death and I'm laughing and crying at the same time.

I need a sense of camaraderie, the feeling that we're all in this together. In fact, I enjoy that feeling whenever it happens. But as I got older, that feeling of camaraderie happened less and less often, and was more difficult to achieve. Somehow, I just never cared about the things that other people around me cared about, and so I had little or no reaction to most of the things other people reacted to.

But with a 'big' event, like a death, I do have an emotional response to the same event that lots of other people are responding to. And when that happens, I seek camaraderie, I look for that feeling of togetherness, that I share this same feeling with the group of people.

However, I can't create that feeling of camaraderie all the time. I can't, and I don't want to. I don't want to have a big group feeling all the time, every day, for every little thing. And, they say that when Fe is very strong, and four-dimensional, like it is in a Fe-base person, they're able to actually go against what the rest of the crowd is feeling, and express their strong and individual feelings in spite of other people's. That's something I never do. If the crowd disagrees with me, then I just shut up and save it for later. I don't have a lot of examples of this happening, because I've stopped paying attention to it. Basically, every thing, every day, I disagree with other people's emotions about every ordinary thing and I don't even try anymore to share my feelings out loud, because it will start a conflict with other people who feel the opposite way that I do.

But something like a death is so universal that even I, a Fe-PoLR, can feel somewhat secure when I express my grief out loud and talk about it. I know that there won't be a huge gang of people who tell me that I'm an idiot for feeling that way - although a few people might tease me - but another large group of people will say, 'No, it's perfectly normal to get upset when someone dies.'

[Korpsy Knievel]

Social norms is anything considered common courtesy and consideration; anything that helps keep things civil; hence civilization. I promote the sense of togetherness and community; a rule? In a party or a group of people, everyone should behave civilly and not do or say things that hurt others, they should instead do so in private (I can probably make rules here too, but I don't care to tamper with private fights unless I'm invited to evaluate the good/bad and right/wrong -rational of it).

That's Fe. ESE, confirmed!

[Absurd]

FeSi took over delta quadra, cookies and pies attack under command of Ryu and Maritsa. No one is safe.

[Nico1e]

FeSi took over delta quadra, cookies and pies attack under command of Ryu and Maritsa. No one is safe.

Yeah, I was noticing a lot of cookies and pies and stuff, myself, lately.

[Nico1e]

That's Fe. ESE, confirmed!

Fi. - Edit, never mind. Now I'm not sure either. I still have an awful time distinguishing Fe and Fi.

I call it Fi because the goal is to try not to hurt individual people's feelings. And I don't care if you're trolling, I'm jumping in anyway.