Quote Originally Posted by Expat
I think the analogy/comparison to astrology is not helpful. Astrology starts from an untenable proposition - that the time of a person's birth deeply influences that person's psychology and even fate.

@ Expat

I hate to split hairs but if you re-read what I have written above, then I believe that it can be seen that I was only pointing out one way in which astrology and socionics can be seen to be similiar; which is that unreliable and often subjective interpretations are often applied by adherrants of both systems to explain type anomalies. I was by no means comparing socionics with astrology in a general way, nor arguing as to the scientific validity of either, nor was I debating the rightness or wrongness of applying subjectivity to either disciplines.

On a separate but related point, even though I believe that both astrology and socionics can be seen as typing systems, I will not attempt to go further with comparisons and argue that socionics' methodology is "right" and astrologys' is "wrong" at this time. Like I have said previously elsewhere, I have not seen any real irrefutable evidence to convince me that either socionics and worst astrology, are reliable systems for typing, forecasting or explaining all or most human behaviors.



Quote Originally Posted by Expat
To take your example of an "unassertive ESTp". An ESTP in a situation where s/he is subjected to iron discipline - whether in an authoritarian family environment, or in a very disciplined army, or perhaps as a female under the Taliban - would certainly not seem very assertive to us, but his/her strong / would still be visible in other respects, and might even still be seen as "assertive" in relation to other individuals in the same position.
How can you be certain that the outlined covert resistance of the ESTp female living under the Taliban would actually happen?