Videos of Gammas

[Garmonbozia]

Yes. People are more at ease with low-IQ people. Therefore low-IQ people are more sociable.

maybe if a person has low "social intelligence", high IQ is a detriment in some way or another like this one. but say someone has high amounts of both. perhaps then the two forms can compliment each other.

You honestly believe SEEs have low IQs?

it's possible. one thing to consider is that i think you must have at least some IQ-like intelligence to use the thinking functions remotely well and at least some social intelligence to use the feeling functions remotely well. but perhaps not necessarily vice versa. this threshold could be so low however that whatever impact it has on the type:IQ relationship is negligible.

i think it's also important to note that even if it does have an impact, it is only necessarily on average. you still might have IQ geniuses (and social geniuses) of any type. there could still be variance within groups despite averages.

I interrupt this topic to bring you a most important announcement:

Machintruc very likely has a normal IQ.

Whenever I hear people garbling on about IQ scores this is most often the case.

many are probably especially because of all the inaccurately easy IQ tests available over the internet. but many are probably not. consider: people with high IQ/low social intelligence may especially have an incentive to garble. it may be a large component of their self-worth. it also takes some IQ intelligence to understand what IQ is and why it's worth anything.

the average IQ off all IQ-garblers i bet is somewhat above the population average. but the average social intelligence of them i bet is below so all things considered "IQ garblers" doesn't sound like a very good group to subscribe to.

this is probably a good reason to suspect machintruc does not have a particularly high IQ though:

You know, the consensus is that IQ is 50% genetic 50% environment.

(in relation to what he said abot his mother of course.) it also seems to invalidate somewhat what he's said about the IQ:type relationship. are INTj's mostly born to INTj parents? not typically IME. yet as Garmonbozia pointed out IQ is rather genetically-linked.

Says (s)he who fails to construct proper sentences 90% of the time.

bullshit point, proper sentence structure is often redundant.

It is, in fact almost always redundant.

I'm finicky.

[marooned]

sjlskjfsdkljflsj

[crazedrat]

You guys are oversimplifying this issue to the point of making things retarded.
1: How can we even be sure IQ, as a construct, accurately measures intelligence; after all isn't an awareness of the immediate environment an intelligence, in itself? IQ to me seems like it would be biased toward NT thought processes, to some extent. And that is all.
2: You need to define intelligence, I am not sure IQ is the perfect way of doing that.
3: My sister is ESFp, she still scores 130ish on IQ tests.
4: I see I was right about the INTj guy in here when I said he had a mental disorder centered around his intelligence, and delusions of its grandeur.. this has been further proven to me as he has gone on to debating IQ superiority... Funny

[crazedrat]

This is pretty much the reason ESFps hate INTjs...
But only the maladapted INTjs show this tendency (see above)

you referring to me? if so:

1) yeah i was being rather terse but then you were being rather head-in-the-clouds. it's also common to debate tersely on internet message boards (especially over head-in-the-clouds matters. it's like the digital generation's version of roughhousing) so i don't think i (or you, either) was necessarily being "unhealthy" given the circumstances.

2) ESFp's might also not like their supervisor. and my terseness (especially as it relates to this head-in-the-clouds matter) might have something to do with Ne POLR.

if you were just refering to the machintruc, then never mind. carry on lolol..

No, sorry. I was refering to the maladapted INTj... aka (forgot his name, but you know the guy)

[crazedrat]

[quote="ifmd95"]

on top of this, I think it can be argued it is the goal of every person to achieve the ideal perspective over the limited perspective

"show me the money" then.

The idea is we live to die, everything is just to die.
I don't really feel like rambling forever.. right now so i give up and you win

[crazedrat]

intuitively I guess it would be called existentialism, or neitzscheish something.. and I think I've mentioned this on other threads but the example I use in my mind is the buddhist monk who meditates in a cave for life, with only the meagerest circumstances for survival... and considers this the height of spiritual enlightenment, mental enlightenment... etc.

[Warlord]

many are probably especially because of all the inaccurately easy IQ tests available over the internet. but many are probably not. consider: people with high IQ/low social intelligence may especially have an incentive to garble. it may be a large component of their self-worth. it also takes some IQ intelligence to understand what IQ is and why it's worth anything.

Yeah those internet tests are ridicilous, I scored 230 from one of those, I doubt that my real IQ is anywhere close. Also lot of tests made in places where people study, self tests etc. are also just too easy. But then again IQ is also a very poor measure of intelligence.

[marooned]

You guys are oversimplifying this issue to the point of making things retarded.
1: How can we even be sure IQ, as a construct, accurately measures intelligence; after all isn't an awareness of the immediate environment an intelligence, in itself? IQ to me seems like it would be biased toward NT thought processes, to some extent. And that is all.
2: You need to define intelligence, I am not sure IQ is the perfect way of doing that.
3: My sister is ESFp, she still scores 130ish on IQ tests.
4: I see I was right about the INTj guy in here when I said he had a mental disorder centered around his intelligence, and delusions of its grandeur.. this has been further proven to me as he has gone on to debating IQ superiority... Funny

1. agree
2. agree
3. she's kind of a mutant SEE then.
4. no comment

but i'm not sure if i'd call making correlations in general offensive.

Yes, I think you're right. I thought about that before I posted that... But, yeah, good point.

[Ritella]

I think this is what their fights typically look like:





what gave it away?
-status based put-downs
-boring as fucking hell

[Ritella]

Eh, the fact that it happened in the first place means it probably isn't Gamma. You won't see them walking around and then stopping to huddle into a circle to insult someone's "status" or whatever.

Even to sing a musical number??

[Joy]

Gamma is not about status. Status is a Ti thing.

[Ritella]

Gamma is not about status. Status is a Ti thing.

yah, okay. "status" is more Fe-hierarchy.
what would you call the Gamma inclination toward material wealth?

[Joy]

what would you call the Gamma inclination toward material wealth?

It's about finances and business, not social status and hierarchy. The fun in is the process itself, lol. It's like... some people think of money as a means to an end, and the end is status. Gammas generally think of money as a fun game, and if there's an end it's related to financial freedom and independence. It's a personal thing, not a social thing.

[strrrng]

lmao..."handle this on the 'street'"

Eh, the fact that it happened in the first place means it probably isn't Gamma. You won't see them walking around and then stopping to huddle into a circle to insult someone's "status" or whatever.

Right, so what do you think they would do (I agree it's not gamma)? Walk up behind someone, stab them and walk away, lol?

Gamma is not about status. Status is a Ti thing.

Correct. Se isn't something in itself when it comes to quadra attitudes. There can't be status without an externally defined network to parameterize the explicit positions of people.

yah, okay. "status" is more Fe-hierarchy.

You mean Ti hierarchy? Fe seems to serve as more of an internal beacon as to 'who is who', a sort of continuous current that courses throughout the Ti network (and which can change like that, whether through Se shifts, Ni processes, etc.). It's sort of why betas will come out and tell you they're better than you, while deltas will just snicker about it quietly.

[Warlord]

Walk up behind someone, stab them and walk away, lol?

(the video isn't family friendly)

[strrrng]

How was that gamma? Couldn't it just as easily have been beta? Did you see it as some protection of the Fi bond between two people? I could have just as easily seen it as "fighting for the group" (no matter how small), with beta. Cause I think we're the ones who are fond of alliances and whatnot, whereas gamma's bonds are a lot more subjective and implicit. So, defending someone over that could've been a Ti reason (don't fuck with someone on my team), or maybe an Fi reason (individual bond).

[Ritella]

How was that gamma? Couldn't it just as easily have been beta? Did you see it as some protection of the Fi bond between two people? I could have just as easily seen it as "fighting for the group" (no matter how small), with beta. Cause I think we're the ones who are fond of alliances and whatnot, whereas gamma's bonds are a lot more subjective and implicit. So, defending someone over that could've been a Ti reason (don't fuck with someone on my team), or maybe an Fi reason (individual bond).

yeah, it could have been Beta. the reason why I chose Gamma is because it's so BORING.
Gammas <3 Business.

[Warlord]

How was that gamma? Couldn't it just as easily have been beta? Did you see it as some protection of the Fi bond between two people? I could have just as easily seen it as "fighting for the group" (no matter how small), with beta. Cause I think we're the ones who are fond of alliances and whatnot, whereas gamma's bonds are a lot more subjective and implicit. So, defending someone over that could've been a Ti reason (don't fuck with someone on my team), or maybe an Fi reason (individual bond).

The reason that he said was fi. He didn't mouth off and try to be badass like the beta guy he stabbed, before it happened. It was pure vengeance and teaching a fi-lesson. And of course the character overall is se-ESFp, and the whole movie Gamma.

[strrrng]

The reason that he said was fi. He didn't mouth off and try to be badass like the beta guy he stabbed, before it happened. It was pure vengeance and teaching a fi-lesson. And of course the character overall is se-ESFp, and the whole movie Gamma.

I guess that makes sense...like the first guy could have been doing SeFe antics and transgressed some Fi implicit bond. But I can't say I would be different with my beta friends. Like, my SLE friend and I have always had that strong loyalty to one another, so if one of us was to get involved in something, the other would help without question. But the bond is more of a beta "tag-team" (for the cause), rather than a gamma bond, which just 'is what it is.' Not that ours is based off of context, but it's more outlined or something. So, if someone did something similar to him that that guy did in the movie, I would jump to his defense as well. But, I guess overall it was more of a personal Fi thing.

[implied]

yah, okay. "status" is more Fe-hierarchy.
what would you call the Gamma inclination toward material wealth?

liking money. not liking status necessarily. i see status as having little to do with moneymaking endeavors in gamma, i agree with joy very much on this.

[Ritella]

liking money. not liking status necessarily. i see status as having little to do with moneymaking endeavors in gamma, i agree with joy very much on this.

yeah, i agree with her as well. it's not so much that i ever disagreed; more that i conflate the two in my head.

[implied]

yeah, i agree with her as well. it's not so much that i ever disagreed; more that i conflate the two in my head.

yeah, that is your thing though. i'm surprised at how many people i've met who link money with status/class/some impressing people thing etc. sometimes it's just money.

[Ritella]

yeah, that is your thing though. i'm surprised at how many people i've met who link money with status/class/some impressing people thing etc. sometimes it's just money.

i think it's like an anti-Beta reaction on my part. Like, hmm, I don't value Se or Ti, and a lot of Beta values confound the two, so it's hard for me to separate them in my head. I think it's likely that all types do this with their unvalued functions. So, maybe, there are Si+Fe things and you would naturally assume it's a characteristic of both functions.
To me, money is still status. It's not status in an "aristocratic" way, but it is a way in which people show off and try to "one up" each other.

[leckysupport]

IMO status comments based off material wealth is a Se thing and status comments based off your amazing various talents and abilities is a Ne/Si thing.

I agree that the concept of status is related to a ethical element (probably Fe) but what you see as being impressive is based around what you value and that changes from type to type and quadra to quadra. It's not exclusively a Beta thing IMO.

Although I think what's "universally" impressive to everyone is Fe (like 'loser/winner' character judgements).

[implied]

Although I think what's "universally" impressive to everyone is Fe (like 'loser/winner' character judgements).

same here.

[strrrng]

IMO status comments based off material wealth is a Se thing and status comments based off your amazing various talents and abilities is a Ne/Si thing.

I agree that the concept of status is related to a ethical element (probably Fe) but what you see as being impressive is based around what you value and that changes from type to type and quadra to quadra. It's not exclusively a Beta thing IMO.

Although I think what's "universally" impressive to everyone is Fe (like 'loser/winner' character judgements).

I think you're right that Fe plays a part in status, because betas will combine the ostensible traits of something with the internal reactions it spurs in others, making for a sort of show-off attitude. As for the universal thing, I'm not sure what you mean. Maybe that because Fe is an object function, the conclusions it draws will be of more a "universal" nature, in that they are what they are, independent of us? And I also think that Fe can take on a universal nature with beta, being that it is paired with Ti and the Ni/Se axis. A principle being established in conjunction with some 'personal vision' which is taken as some definite source of action—one which will be dispersed to other people, hence a group fighting for a cause.

[strrrng]

What I meant in my last post was that they wouldn't do anything. I don't think any sort of "face-off" based on status or whatever would have ever happened in the first place. Honestly... what the hell is that?

Probably right. Unvalued Ti would make them indifferent to those sort of "ideology clashes" or "team wars" (network). But I can imagine some scenarios where Fi might possibly fuel some confrontation, like the one mentioned by warlord.

[Joy]

sometimes it's just money.

<3

For some reason I found this very quotable.

[leckysupport]

As for the universal thing, I'm not sure what you mean. Maybe that because Fe is an object function, the conclusions it draws will be of more a "universal" nature, in that they are what they are, independent of us?

Yeah, that's basically what I mean.

[strrrng]

Well yeah, Fi could fuel confrontation, sure. But I feel like what I do is more "get to the point" or something? To me, Beta feels like it prolongs a situation past what's even necessary. If someone betrayed me, I cut them off. If someone tried to hurt me, I do what's necessary and not any more. My feelings and sentiments about the situation last forever—I'll never trust you again and I'll always remember what you're capable of doing to me—but my actions in a situation are just enough to get what needs to be done, done. No gloating, no "tag-teams" or whatever. Whenever I've done that it always feels unnatural and humiliating afterwards. I wouldn't engage anyone in a "face-off" like in the video. I'm sure having that sort of "tag-team" thing feels great or something because of the loyalty aspect, but I prefer the feeling I get from other Gammas. One of my friends is my identical and he and I just have this unspoken agreement to be there for each other. It's not in the Beta way... that feels like flaunting it to me.

Interesting. Although, I wouldn't say that loyalty between betas is always overt. I mean, my Se-ESTp friend and I don't need to constantly talk about how we're gonna stick together, nor did we have to go around proving it. Stuff like that seems to stem mostly from genuine friendship/understanding, and also same valued functions. What's implicit to one quadra may need to be explicit to another. I wouldn't expect Fi quadras to understand the subtle Fe cues exchanged by my friend and I, nor would I presume to understand the nature of an Fi bond.

[implied]

<3

For some reason I found this very quotable.

go for it. i'm becoming quotalicious. such a good thing!

[Socionics Is A Cult]

I don't see why Gamma types cannot be obsessed with status. My mother is a reclusive ISFj who rarely goes outside, and yet she ia constantly buying various handbags and clothes and shoes of varying types and colours that she will just never use. She has claimed it is her duty to the family to look good, and although my father claims she is bankrupting him, she seems to think she knows how much he earns and how much is therefore expendable on crap. At times, it seems like she is making up for my father's non-lavishness. To me, all this seems utterly pointless.

As for some ESFps - it is my impression that they outmanoeuvre me by having many friends who can tear me apart socially, even when I do not care for such things - I only want things to be bareably liveable. They make me feel like the whole building surrounding me is rigged with semtex.

ENTjs do not come across this way so much to me, but this is perhaps they have their interests, and I have mine. They don't seem to be so immediately self-obsessed with status.

[Joy]

Wanting to look good isn't the same thing as caring about status.

[crazedrat]

who gives a fuck. go do something useful for a change

[Socionics Is A Cult]

Wanting to look good isn't the same thing as caring about status.

It is when it is excessive, and when it is done with the intent of 'making the family look good'.

[dbmmama]

The reason that he said was fi. He didn't mouth off and try to be badass like the beta guy he stabbed, before it happened. It was pure vengeance and teaching a fi-lesson. And of course the character overall is se-ESFp, and the whole movie Gamma.

the first time i did this i was 5. a new boy on the street called my sister, MY SISTER, "four eyes" when she got new glasses. she came home crying and that was IT for me. i took her by the hand and marched up to his door and "metaphorically" stabbed him. he never did it again.

[dbmmama]

liking money. not liking status necessarily. i see status as having little to do with moneymaking endeavors in gamma, i agree with joy very much on this.

exactly.

[Warlord]

yeah, it could have been Beta. the reason why I chose Gamma is because it's so BORING.

You have several times shown, that you have poor understanding what gammas are like. ESFp's alone make gammas the least boring quadra

If there's something boring, it's the music videos deltas post in any music thread (especially the delta music thread). I can't listen to any of that stuff for more than few seconds, without getting extremely bored. Like it's with the saying "if it's too loud, you're too old", according to that, most deltas are ready for burial.

[Ritella]

You have several times shown, that you have poor understanding what gammas are like. ESFp's alone make gammas the least boring quadra

If there's something boring, it's the music videos deltas post in any music thread (especially the delta music thread). I can't listen to any of that stuff for more than few seconds, without getting extremely bored. Like it's with the saying "if it's too loud, you're too old", according to that, most deltas are ready for burial.

you're ummm joking right?
and, yeah, i agree that most of the delta things are boring. tbh i rarely even read those threads.

[Joy]

the first time i did this i was 5. a new boy on the street called my sister, MY SISTER, "four eyes" when she got new glasses. she came home crying and that was IT for me. i took her by the hand and marched up to his door and "metaphorically" stabbed him. he never did it again.

Yeah, when my sister was in 9th or 10th grade there was a girl in her class that was harassing her. I called up the girl and told her who I was and calmly stated that I was sure that whatever the issue, it must be the result of a misunderstanding. I told her I wanted to resolve this misunderstanding so that they wouldn't bother each other anymore. She took a defensive tone and said that it was my sister that was harassing her, and that my sister had started it. With a "you're not fooling anyone" tone in my voice I said, "I've lived with my sister her entire life, and I KNOW that she does not behave that way. Would you like to tell me what's really going on? I want to be sure that this issue is really resolved and that there won't be any more problems." She stammered there wouldn't be any more problems, and she ignored my sister from then on.

I'm not sure why it worked so well, but from other experiences I've had I would say that being direct in and of itself doesn't accomplish much and can actually make the situation worse. I think being calm and direct was the key. I had also done my best not to point fingers (at least overtly) in our conversation, which I'm sure helped.