when you determine your own type,

[Ms. Kensington]

If you like arguing - it does not sound like INTJ. INTJ can be quiet for a long time and suddenly unexpected for others they exploid like a bomb without visible reason. INTP's like to argue for the sake of arguing - in a soft manner they can go on and on and on...

Interesting. I am usually not very invloved in arguments, or rather, I prefer not to be in the center of it. I prefer to comment during the course of the argument. You also described my temper there, that is VERY calm and suddenly all hell breaks loose. This applies to arguments as well, when I tend to become exceedingly caustic if a certain limit is passed. Sounds like it confirms my idea of myself as an INTj...

you also described me

[Ms. Kensington]

Olga--

I have another question for you.

I have been thinking about my hidden agenda and its clues for my type and wanted to see what you thought.

I am still unclear how manifestations of the role function would differ from that of your hidden agenda, but I think i know why your description of Si role threw me. Basically, I feel that i have felt frustrated lately with circumstances that make me feel that i am immobile and cannot do anything (PoLR Se), which is triggering an overflow of Si. This matches with INTj and would explain better why I Si more at stressful times than in happier times...

But I wanted to ask you.. that some of the literature on INTp/INTj says that if you are INTp you are drawn to risk, and if you are INTj you are drawn to happy places. I feel that i like risk but in actuality, for most cases, as they involve the welfare of others I act conservatively... What do you think of this?

[Olga]

I think it would be good to continue to write about "working of the fucntions" as we could clear many questions like this togehter. I do not know what you mean by "hidden agenda". There are gaps in my knowledge because I didn't read yet about MBTI. I know what role function means. Nevertheless, I will try to make sense and explain what I know.

First, about taking risk. Sensation seeking is a feature which can vay between types and possibly within types. We can say that rational types are less willing to take risk and irrational on the opposite. But I don't think it is true. The Experimenter/Pioneer ENTJ is risk taking type but he has his feet on the ground at the same time. ESFP can do very impulsive and risky things. So I think we need to explore how types may differ in risk taking. It may be related to strong functions/qualities of a type. I know INTJ who can act romantically risky and irrationally for observes. But for them there are very clear reasons why they act this way and not another. For example, INTJ feel people well as if they see the structure of their inside body (soul). I know INTPs who prefer to stay a lone than to risk to take people in their life - they don't like this kind of risk but feel
more confident with money risking/investing .... Second will continue...

[Creepy-]

ddf

[Olga]

You wrote:

"I am still unclear how manifestations of the role function would differ from that of your hidden agenda, but I think i know why your description of Si role threw me. Basically, I feel that i have felt frustrated lately with circumstances that make me feel that i am immobile and cannot do anything (PoLR Se), which is triggering an overflow of Si. This matches with INTj and would explain better why I Si more at stressful times than in happier times... "

Ideally is to discuss it all with other INTP, and INTJs to see how they feel and under what circumstances. For example we want to see the difference in between INTP and INTJ. As far as I know INTP do take care about the way they look at all times - role function. INTJ do not care abut it at all times... what they do care at all times -that there is a peace and happy atmosphere. These are their role functions. There should be much more to and to than I described.
My husband is INTJ and he feels exactly like you described at stressful times. He said listening to music helps him a lot. As regards to weakest function which is for INTJ and for INTP - this needs to be discussed separetly. If you INTJ you will fear the danger/unpredictable/irrational power coming from outside at normal times and at stressful times you might be disturbed that you actually are loosing the plot and will start to fear the danger within yourself. What kind of danger I don't know - you might know better. It is a private area and I don't think people will talk about it openly. INTP are more concerned about emotions and feelings. I don't know what they are afraid of at normal times and how it come to express itself at stressful times .

Does it make any sense for you? I might look differently at what you or I said if I know what you mean by hidden agenda.

[Olga]

thank you Steve. I just had a look at it and can't say anything right now.
I can't understand a basis for such statments and need to read and think more about it. I would like to ask following those who does understand it better.

What functions are associated with hidden agenda? Do you agree with what it says about your type? How does it make sense for you? Can it be called prupose of life which we come to realise or is it something which is simply very important to us? I always understand things better when people explain it in their own words.

[Creepy-]

sdfsdf

[Olga]

First, I had a look in the book and it says about the six function that people expect from the others to give them a maximum comfort on this function.
For example, for INTJ it is . That means for me, if the people do care about how comfortable they feel then this make them happy. If they are tired there should be everything ready for them to relax: good food, maximum attention to their needs - medication if necessary, no screaming children around and etc. Especially when they are stressed, they feel exhaustion and need somebody to take care of things otherwise it is all too much for them. The hidden agenda for INTJ is to be healthy. How it may fit with the 6 function? May be due to heir lack ( the third/weakest function ) of willpower it is important for them that somebody will take care of their health when they feel immobile to do anything.
The book written by Jacubovskaja, however, suggest that the six function is connected to the second creative function which for INTJ is external intuition or evaluation of the potential abilities of an object/phenomenon. How do this functions come to express themselves in real life situation - only INTJ must know and I can only speculate. If they do mistake on the creative function, they overestimate or underestimate the abilities of people/objects …or may be they were right but the others perceived it differently as they do not the INTJ’s abilities to see through and thus can not understand their reasons then this could upset INTJ and then… they need somebody to make them feel better, to say that they are very clever and the best !

Second continue…

[Olga]

Second continue…

Second, I believe if we want to understand for themselves the behavior or the reasons for actions of types we need to consider how functions support each other and how they work together and what functions are involved.

For example, I have considered earlier the differences in risk taking between the types.
If we look at the second/creative (or may be it is worth to look at the first as well?) and the fourth functions of INTJ and INTP it may explain what kind of risk they are comfortable to take. INTJ see people’s/objects potential abilities and he is not bad at ethics of relationships. That means he can take risk with people or other material objects whose inside structure makes sense for him/her. But he/she is not that good in seeing structure of such object like money because money is not and an object/phenomenon.
Money is power and is associated in socionics with Se . So he will prefer to be careful with it than to play around. Se is his weakest function.
INTP, on the opposite have got some understanding about power (his fourth function) plus he has got a drive to make something practical/materially valuable out of things (creative function Te), so he is willing to play around with power and thus can be very clever with money Se . His first function is feeling of the time (how things can develop in time) is of great help here too. On the other hand, emotions is his weakest point, thus, he will be careful in approaching people and sensitive to how people treat him, easy to withdraw, to drop before anything starts if he/she feels not right….may be if he feels that this relationship will not bring him/her material benefit or form some reason there is not a good feeling about the development of this relationship…INTP could probably explain it better or may be to disagree or correct me.