One of the greatest actors who ever lived. The music is shit though.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xvsauqv670c[/youtube]
One of the greatest actors who ever lived. The music is shit though.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xvsauqv670c[/youtube]
ISFj, and his wife Joanne Woodward is ENTj. I already mentioned them in the Gamma forum.
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
No way man. I would not have imagined that at all.
He's a remarkably good actor if he's an ESI.
Hmmm -- or perhaps you have the wrong image of ESIs?Originally Posted by Ezra
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
No, what I mean is that if you take his bests - The Hustler, Cool Hand Luke, Butch Cassidy And The Sundance Kid - he doesn't have the air of an ESI. As Luke, he's more like an SLI, in The Hustler, an SLE, and as Butch Cassidy, probably an SLI again.
Also, do you think an ESI, when asked why he's stuck with his wife for so long, would say something like "why go out for hamburgers when you can have steak at home?" Isn't that the kind of thing an NT would say?
What do you call "the air of a ESI" then?Originally Posted by Ezra
And I don't think Butch Cassidy was best typed as SLI. I'd guess SEE. By the way.
I suggest you don't base typings on this kind of quotes, which are obviously not even meant seriously.Originally Posted by Ezra
Question -- why did you use the term "stuck with his wife"?
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
I have no idea why you would hear a quote about why someone should remain faithful in marriage and say you can't imagine an ISFj saying it, when that is a huge stereotype of them even. Because he said it with a sense of humor? Do you not think ISFjs can have a sense of humor? The message is very typical of an ISFj and the manner in which he says it shouldn't override the actual content of the message.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
True. I had even overlooked that.
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
An American WASP women of the 1950s I see as a good example of an ESI.Originally Posted by Expat
Yeah, that was the one I thought was a bit off. I haven't seen the film in a while.And I don't think Butch Cassidy was best typed as SLI. I'd guess SEE. By the way.
Of course it was light-hearted, but it gives a hint to the way one thinks. For example, do you think an LSE would find toilet humour remotely funny? If someone used that, then laughed immensely at their own joke, would you even think twice about casting LSE off the list?I suggest you don't base typings on this kind of quotes, which are obviously not even meant seriously.
Because both he and Joanne have stuck with each other for a long time. I didn't mean "he was stuck with his wife" in a mysogynistic sense if that's what you thought I was edging towards.Question -- why did you use the term "stuck with his wife"?
Shit, I didn't even think about the fidelity behind it and how closely it's related to the ESI's sense of this.Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
Apologies. I retract the quote as an argument for his not being an ESI.
I think twice about dismissing any type based on just one piece of evidence.Originally Posted by Ezra
Ok, fair enough.Originally Posted by Ezra
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
Ezra I don't really understand, that's clearly meant as a compliment IMHO. He's saying he think his wife is better than any other women around, basically.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
For the "typical" 50's woman, ESE is much more fitting than ESI. What do you mean by "WASP" woman though? Are you talking about the movie?Originally Posted by Ezra
I know that. What don't you understand about my position (which is exactly the same as yours)?Originally Posted by FDG
True, actually.Originally Posted by Joy
What, this one?What do you mean by "WASP" woman though? Are you talking about the movie?
(The poster is hilarious. What a fantastic concept.) Am I fuck, I've never even heard of that to be honest until you mentioned it.
No, WASP is an acronym for White Anglo-Saxon Protestant.
I'd say a typical 50's women would be more SEI, maybe even IEI. Depends on whether you emphasize the servility of the role, or the chores and responsibilities.
No way man, those women have to be Rational, otherwise they're shit housewives.
The way I see it, you've got the conservative LIE man going out and doing the job, then "honey, I'm home".
"Dinner's served," replies the woman. She must be totally ready to serve his practical needs. This is why she is an ESI. She must shut the fuck up (Fi), cook dinner (Se) and be the man's plaything (Fi).
Originally Posted by Ezra
Ezra, this is a far more realistic portrayal of m ENTj - f ISFj duality:
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
w/ preference.Originally Posted by Ezra
This isn't MBTI. Quit being dumb.
Of course, yes. I read that somewhere. I think it was concerning Reinin's Victim.Originally Posted by Expat
This is one thing that makes me edge away from LIE. Not because I think it looks weak or pathetic (I've already said that the thrill of the chase and having the woman think she is above you is fun), but because I doubt that's how I'd be in a relationship. Anyway, I need more experience in romantic relationships (which no one has at 18) before I come to a conclusion about whether I'm an Aggressor or a Victim (or perhaps something else that I haven't even previously given thought to).
Another thing; it's this kind of stuff that makes me doubt LIEs can be 8s. I just can't imagine an 8 doing the whole Victim thing. It doesn't make sense to me. They'd have to be a very, very healthy 8 to do that kind of thing.
Gulenko's.Originally Posted by Ezra
Gandhi got married when he was 13. You're a loser.Originally Posted by Ezra
You see, to me the question is not whether or not LIEs fit precisely your conception of what an 8 is. It's rather whether or not any other Enneatype fits them better. Who said that every socionics type had to perfectly fit into an Enneagram type?Originally Posted by Ezra
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
Yeah, well, Gandhi liked to sleep with a harem of young girls. I'd rather be a loser than a paedo.Originally Posted by Expat
Yes, but there are many things in the LIE that contradict what an 8 is; not just my conception of one, but what an 8 is. Like, for example, there ability to physically fight. They can, if the need calls for it. And they will, because they feel comfortable fighting. But the LIE as an NT has a problem with this; they are uncomfortable with fighting. This is a straight-out contradiction.You see, to me the question is not whether or not LIEs fit precisely your conception of what an 8 is. It's rather whether or not any other Enneatype fits them better. Who said that every socionics type had to perfectly fit into an Enneagram type?
LIEs fit 6 quite easily, I think. They almost always have the stereotypical "outward nervousness" of 6s, and I think Fi Dual Seeking and rationality easily account for the 6s core motivations. Fe Role and Te Dominance also work well when it comes to the 6's challenging other's beliefs.
The major problem I have with 6 for LIE is when I see the progression downwards (or upwards, whatever) in the levels of health. That seems to me what happens to someone with very low .Originally Posted by Gilly
, LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
Originally Posted by implied
I know we've had this discussion before, but I'm still not sure what to think of the Levels of Health. I've only ever heard of them through that one single Enneagram site; are they a sub-theory that is widely accepted? It's not on any of the numerous other Enneagram sites I've been to, so naturally one must wonder...
R&H's Levels of Health aren't all-encompassing, nor are they rigid.Originally Posted by Expat
Nonetheless, how does any of this contradict Ne?:
Originally Posted by Enneagram Institute
Male ISFjs are so desirable. I hope they won't mind an INFj like me.
R&H may be one site, but it constitutes about 80% of the Enneagram Community. It's very much an accepted theory. But a lot of people are sceptical, even those who are fans of Riso & Hudson.Originally Posted by Gilly
hm i have noticed that INFjs can fall for male ISFjs.. in fact I think my best friend who is INFj, is marrying one. (haven't pinned down his type yet).Originally Posted by eunice
I do see ISFj for Paul Newman.
You all people need more real life experience on how LIE-ESI relationships develop. It happens that:
- The LIE is just enough good humored to relax the ESI. He's also sufficiently good at sex to make her orgasm so that she relaxes.
- The LIE gets money and squanders it on buying houses, going on vacation with the ESI. Otherwise the LIE would rot alone with a lot of money, and the ESI woudl rot alone trying to make some money.
- I'm not even sure that it plays out with queen-knight stuff nowadays. I'm happy that now everything is such on more fair terms. I think all ExTx IxFx relationships play out similarly, where the ExTx does almost all the practical-money related stuff, and the IxFx is there to support morally and practically the ExTx in his pursuits. Otherwise, the ExTx would just live and empty successful life, and the IxFx would live an empty life for others. In this exact context LIE-ESI relations have to be understood.
Ps. I think I'm LIE, and I'm not "passive" in relationship. Being "victim" is different from being passive.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
You reckon? Cool.
I realised I made a mistake thinking 7s couldn't be rational. But they can. Brad Pitt is an LIE and a 7w6.
You do place a fair bit of emphasis on Si for an LIE, though (e.g. in relation to your fitness and exercise).
He thinks it's a manifestation of his Se role
LOL IF YOU ARE ENTJ AND I AM ISFJ AND WE WERE BOTH GAY AND I LIVED IN ITALY OR YOU LIVED IN AMERICA WE COULD HAVE A HOMOSEXUAL DUAL RELATIONSHIPOriginally Posted by FDG
omfgOriginally Posted by discojoe
Another thing; if you're LIE, FDG, how is it that you get on so shitly with Joy, who is LIE (nonetheless, this could be open to questioning, since you get on quite weel with Expat)?
ARE YOU ACTIVE OR PASSIVE?? THIS IS A REAL DEAL BREAKER IN HOMOSEXUAL RELATIONSOriginally Posted by discojoe
No clue.Another thing; if you're LIE, FDG, how is it that you get on so shitly with Joy, who is LIE (nonetheless, this could be open to questioning, since you get on quite weel with Expat)?
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
ESI-Se, not SEE