Developing extraverted sensing for Se-PoLR

[munenori2]

I think what you guys are doing is leaping directly from the idea of the function itself to the actions that sometimes occur as a result. However, what you guys don't seem to realize is that always begins as a state of mind before any action actually happens. (Well, that's understandable, considering that most of you at least aren't types, and thus wouldn't understand what it actually feels like.) I'll do my very best to explain what it's like as I'm experiencing it, without being mixed with any other functions (although this might have an unavoidable tinge to it).


At rest, you're kind of in an observatory state of mind. Everything around you gets registered, no matter if you can touch it, or it's way off in the distant distance. You're subconsciously registering everything that enters your "radar". If everything's good, your sonar stays at a constant rate. Sometimes, particular things will enter your radar that will cause the mental sonar to start beeping a little more rapidly, a little louder, or at an irregular rhythm. When this happens, attention immediately gets directed towards the cause. It may be the presence of a person or thing, the absence of it, or something that's registering as "abnormal". When this happens, the proper action to be taken as a result of it is determined. (After this happens, the action is usually tweaked or outright changed by whatever Ji function you have better control with.) A few examples:

I'm up in my room, writing this post, and a scratching noise enters into my radar. Immediately, my attention gets diverted from writing this sentence, and I focus solely on the "disturbance". At first, it sounds as if my parents are quietly whispering downstairs. At this point, my tells me to go out and see if this is the case. However, my mother starts talking about something in a louder tone of voice, but my radar picks up the fact that the scratching noise is still happening. decides that if mom's talking louder but the noise is still happening, she can't be whispering stuff to my dad. So I stay here and fine-tune the radar, until it's clear. It was the sound of crickets being muffled through all the closed windows.

Another scenario is that tomorrow is the first day of school, and I'm going in a bit early. Most likely, no one will be there yet, but my radar will be on the prowl for certain. Each person that comes into my radar is instantly analyzed, and I determine if it's someone cool that I'll want to talk to, someone I want to give a funny look to make them uncomfortable, or someone who is fugly and thus I don't want to even look near them. Whichever category the person lands into gets the corresponding action. Easy.


Then of course, certain things will enter the radar (or be absent from the radar) that the will want to change. It could simply be an object that needs to be moved somehow, a person that needs a spanking (hah), or just a plain old boring situation that I want to make fun. For the first thing, you can just pick it up and put it somewhere else (self-explanatory). If it's the person that needs a good hard spanking, you can either outright spank them at the next available opportunity, wait until the situation flips into your favor so that you can spank them in the most advantageous manner, or you can trick them into allowing you to spank them. Whichever way would work the best as determined by x function is the action that gets performed. If it's a boring situation, you can do a myriad of different things to change it, so that it works in your favor.


Edit: And I'd also like to add that sometimes in the absence of any activity, beeps in the radar are actively persued by the as to get things moving. When a lot of you guys think of , this is probably a big aspect of what you're all seing. But remember that is a whole fucking lot more than just that!


I know this might sound awfully simplistic, but before you all go, "Nuh nuh, is st0opid; it doesn't require any brainpower at all!", just think this: If it were this easy and simplistic, it wouldn't be your role/polr/etc., now would it? :wink:

Herzy +2
Niffweed (comments about the relatively undifferentiated psyches of primitive humans) +2
anamericancer's dad +2 (the resemblance is uncanny)

[Blaze]

I was inspired by your post so I just got done trying that. I walked outside and down the street and all I could do was make observations of everything I saw. I opened up my eyes really wide and just stared at everything for a few seconds. I thought it was the most boring thing I've ever done. the road is grey, the sky is blue, It's a very pretty blue. The people aren't so pretty though. They think I'm strange, because I hang my mouth low and my eyes are shifty. I'm trying to see everything at once. It's difficult. I look like my sister did when she got a concussion from gymnastics. She would walk around the house and stare at things like she never saw them before. Then she kept asking for chinese food. So I was just walking around thinking about my sister and chinese food, and then I realized I had stopped sensing things and was about to run into someone.

lol good one i'm exactly the same way.

[Blaze]

to answer the thread question if you want to improve your Se then put yourself in situations which demand that you increase your toughness and power. put yourself next to somebody who is naturally good at and learn from them. the furthest you'll get is increasing your toughness and your ability to put up with physical discomfort in the pursuit of your goal. if you are intuitive in the ego block my opinion is that you will never have the minute sensory awareness that Se types have, which is key to Se. like anamericancer said, to an intuitive, it's boring.

[liveandletlive]

to answer the thread question if you want to improve your Se then put yourself in situations which demand that you increase your toughness and power. put yourself next to somebody who is naturally good at and learn from them. the furthest you'll get is increasing your toughness and your ability to put up with physical discomfort in the pursuit of your goal. if you are intuitive in the ego block my opinion is that you will never have the minute sensory awareness that Se types have, which is key to Se. like anamericancer said, to an intuitive, it's boring.

i agree... i realize that a lot of the time ill end up pulling all nighters just to do the work and yes that may have been a flaw in my planning abilities, i deep down kinda like it ahh...

anyway, we got an ESTp perspective on which i agree with for the most part but ill let u in on how i use it... So say I'm first meeting someone- a perspective boss. I can sense by the way the walk, the way they hold themselves, the way they dress, how they want me to act, what they want. It's a tough thing to explain, but it's just this feeling. This also ends up being very useful in typing people as well. But um yeah I've never had someone not like me, or rather, not love me when the first met me.

in general though is extremely overwhelming and intense. We're always "here". You N people blow my mind... I mean how can you be in your head all the time? Don't get me wrong i think that's cool, but that's such an odd concept for me.

[discojoe]

I can't think of a way to explain this. Maybe the creative function is inexorably linked to the eighth, because I have trouble separating Se from Si in regards to myself. It feels like it would be almost impossible to describe without being uselessly abstract.

[tcaudilllg]

I can't think of a way to explain this. Maybe the creative function is inexorably linked to the eighth, because I have trouble separating Se from Si in regards to myself. It feels like it would be almost impossible to describe without being uselessly abstract.

There does seem to be a consistent connection between the two. Consider, the ear is used for both balance and hearing; the eyes trace an object's movement and report on its colors. Skin sensations are pleasant or unpleasant depending on the force involved. And there is that critical charge threshold for sensation itself. The more the socionics-aware person learns about the brain, the more obvious the links between the elements seem.

But we've got a problem as to how to define what an element is. Why is S stronger than N in a sensing type? What really accounts for "higher differentiation" at the neural level?

I can, for a few seconds, make my intuition "weak" and become an type. But before five seconds pass of this I begin feeling a sharp pain in my head. I'd like to know if other INTjs experience the same phenomenon in their experience with self-compulsed .

[krieger]

I can, for a few seconds, make my intuition "weak" and become an Extraverted Sensing type. But before five seconds pass of this I begin feeling a sharp pain in my head. I'd like to know if other INTjs experience the same phenomenon in their experience with self-compulsed Extraverted Sensing.

Can you really do that, or do you just think you can..? This is the problem with all introspection: how do you verify that what you experienced fits the name you give to it..?

Personally I am very much puzzled by the model A and the terms it attaches to each of the non-ego-block functions. If you ask me, the model is to be interpreted as an indicator of what position a function has relative to ones' ego block functions. It seems to me that they aren't used so much as that their participation is implicit in the use of the ego functions...

A way of illustrating this by means of a metaphor would be the following: If Ti is the function of logic and Te is the function of established rules and facts, then use of Ti neccarily implies use of Te. It's never logical to claim something that doesn't agree with the facts that are right in front of you. Something similar can be said of each of the other functions: it is rarely conducive to an emotional climate to behave unethically. Likewise, imagination is chained by reality: you can only imagine things by combining the decomposed parts of things you have seen before.

[tcaudilllg]

I can, for a few seconds, make my intuition "weak" and become an Extraverted Sensing type. But before five seconds pass of this I begin feeling a sharp pain in my head. I'd like to know if other INTjs experience the same phenomenon in their experience with self-compulsed Extraverted Sensing.

Can you really do that, or do you just think you can..? This is the problem with all introspection: how do you verify that what you experienced fits the name you give to it..?

Personally I am very much puzzled by the model A and the terms it attaches to each of the non-ego-block functions. If you ask me, the model is to be interpreted as an indicator of what position a function has relative to ones' ego block functions. It seems to me that they aren't used so much as that their participation is implicit in the use of the ego functions...

A way of illustrating this by means of a metaphor would be the following: If Ti is the function of logic and Te is the function of established rules and facts, then use of Ti neccarily implies use of Te. It's never logical to claim something that doesn't agree with the facts that are right in front of you. Something similar can be said of each of the other functions: it is rarely conducive to an emotional climate to behave unethically. Likewise, imagination is chained by reality: you can only imagine things by combining the decomposed parts of things you have seen before.

It corresponds experience-wise to what Herzy described, and it is noticably void of imagined imagery. (I suppress the archetypal image overlay that intuitives are normally privy to in favor of giving all my attention to my surroundings)

The functions follow after each other in sequence for a variety of reasons. On this forum you often here of people "choosing" to use a function, but that's because the individuals in question have weak self-awareness: if they really chose to use a function out-of-sequence, they'd succumb to the vices associated with each function. Also, the function order is difficult for non-intuitives to trace, although ENTps do it naturally via .

The relationship between the function sequence and awareness of the same is not well understood, however. So long as it isn't, you can expect the individualists and consensarians especially to stick with the conservative (MBTI) notion that one uses the functions "at will." Socionics does not say that, although one certainly has choice over whether one uses a transcendental function or not. I should note, also, that the MBTI is itself a corruption of Jung's work. Jung was the first to discern, as Smilingeyes made clear here months ago, that rationality always follows irrationality and vice versa, and always as a means of repressing the non-dominant attitude. (in the case of consciousness, at least)

[FDG]

I can, for a few seconds, make my intuition "weak" and become an Extraverted Sensing type. But before five seconds pass of this I begin feeling a sharp pain in my head. I'd like to know if other INTjs experience the same phenomenon in their experience with self-compulsed Extraverted Sensing.

Can you really do that, or do you just think you can..? This is the problem with all introspection: how do you verify that what you experienced fits the name you give to it..?

Personally I am very much puzzled by the model A and the terms it attaches to each of the non-ego-block functions. If you ask me, the model is to be interpreted as an indicator of what position a function has relative to ones' ego block functions. It seems to me that they aren't used so much as that their participation is implicit in the use of the ego functions...

A way of illustrating this by means of a metaphor would be the following: If Ti is the function of logic and Te is the function of established rules and facts, then use of Ti neccarily implies use of Te. It's never logical to claim something that doesn't agree with the facts that are right in front of you. Something similar can be said of each of the other functions: it is rarely conducive to an emotional climate to behave unethically. Likewise, imagination is chained by reality: you can only imagine things by combining the decomposed parts of things you have seen before.

+1 agree completely

[tcaudilllg]

I can, for a few seconds, make my intuition "weak" and become an Extraverted Sensing type. But before five seconds pass of this I begin feeling a sharp pain in my head. I'd like to know if other INTjs experience the same phenomenon in their experience with self-compulsed Extraverted Sensing.

Can you really do that, or do you just think you can..? This is the problem with all introspection: how do you verify that what you experienced fits the name you give to it..?

Personally I am very much puzzled by the model A and the terms it attaches to each of the non-ego-block functions. If you ask me, the model is to be interpreted as an indicator of what position a function has relative to ones' ego block functions. It seems to me that they aren't used so much as that their participation is implicit in the use of the ego functions...

A way of illustrating this by means of a metaphor would be the following: If Ti is the function of logic and Te is the function of established rules and facts, then use of Ti neccarily implies use of Te. It's never logical to claim something that doesn't agree with the facts that are right in front of you. Something similar can be said of each of the other functions: it is rarely conducive to an emotional climate to behave unethically. Likewise, imagination is chained by reality: you can only imagine things by combining the decomposed parts of things you have seen before.

+1 agree completely

For some reason seeing FDG agree with labcoat makes what labcoat wrote easier for me to understand. I'm usually only able to understand half of what labcoat says when I first read it.

[Blaze]

I can, for a few seconds, make my intuition "weak" and become an Extraverted Sensing type. But before five seconds pass of this I begin feeling a sharp pain in my head. I'd like to know if other INTjs experience the same phenomenon in their experience with self-compulsed Extraverted Sensing.

Can you really do that, or do you just think you can..? This is the problem with all introspection: how do you verify that what you experienced fits the name you give to it..?

Personally I am very much puzzled by the model A and the terms it attaches to each of the non-ego-block functions. If you ask me, the model is to be interpreted as an indicator of what position a function has relative to ones' ego block functions. It seems to me that they aren't used so much as that their participation is implicit in the use of the ego functions...

A way of illustrating this by means of a metaphor would be the following: If Ti is the function of logic and Te is the function of established rules and facts, then use of Ti neccarily implies use of Te. It's never logical to claim something that doesn't agree with the facts that are right in front of you. Something similar can be said of each of the other functions: it is rarely conducive to an emotional climate to behave unethically. Likewise, imagination is chained by reality: you can only imagine things by combining the decomposed parts of things you have seen before.

yeah. the other side of the function is implicitly embedded. as is the opposing function. yet we fully develop only one side. why can we not be in control of all information if we are only using 2% of our brains?

[Blaze]

to answer the thread question if you want to improve your Se then put yourself in situations which demand that you increase your toughness and power. put yourself next to somebody who is naturally good at and learn from them. the furthest you'll get is increasing your toughness and your ability to put up with physical discomfort in the pursuit of your goal. if you are intuitive in the ego block my opinion is that you will never have the minute sensory awareness that Se types have, which is key to Se. like anamericancer said, to an intuitive, it's boring.

i agree... i realize that a lot of the time ill end up pulling all nighters just to do the work and yes that may have been a flaw in my planning abilities, i deep down kinda like it ahh...

anyway, we got an ESTp perspective on which i agree with for the most part but ill let u in on how i use it... So say I'm first meeting someone- a perspective boss. I can sense by the way the walk, the way they hold themselves, the way they dress, how they want me to act, what they want. It's a tough thing to explain, but it's just this feeling. This also ends up being very useful in typing people as well. But um yeah I've never had someone not like me, or rather, not love me when the first met me.

in general though is extremely overwhelming and intense. We're always "here". You N people blow my mind... I mean how can you be in your head all the time? Don't get me wrong i think that's cool, but that's such an odd concept for me.

yes i see what you mean my post of more SLE oriented than SEE. for SEE your Se feeds your Fi, but you still are evaluating other people's wants, needs, potential power, etc. all in those minute gestures and signals that you notice immediately.

i do wonder what it would be like to have this level of sensory awareness....to me everything looks kind of blended together and symbolic or something. i guess the cool thing about living in your head is that you don't have to accept reality at face value. you can kind of twist it, bend it, manipulate it in your head to see what it would do. i guess Ne is less direct that way. sometimes it's a pain in the ass to have your head in the clouds i guess, but other times, it's restful and fun. *shrugs*

[tcaudilllg]

i agree... i realize that a lot of the time ill end up pulling all nighters just to do the work and yes that may have been a flaw in my planning abilities, i deep down kinda like it ahh...

anyway, we got an ESTp perspective on which i agree with for the most part but ill let u in on how i use it... So say I'm first meeting someone- a perspective boss. I can sense by the way the walk, the way they hold themselves, the way they dress, how they want me to act, what they want. It's a tough thing to explain, but it's just this feeling. This also ends up being very useful in typing people as well. But um yeah I've never had someone not like me, or rather, not love me when the first met me.

in general though is extremely overwhelming and intense. We're always "here". You N people blow my mind... I mean how can you be in your head all the time? Don't get me wrong i think that's cool, but that's such an odd concept for me.

is character, so that's not so strange to imagine as you might think. The way people move, the way they act, is simply a means of assessing character. Subconsciously you are recalling memories via , memories of similar movements to those you are seeing. These patterns suggest a kind of relationship, which is what reaches out for.

[Jarno]

Feeling or controlling a function like shutting it off, is in my opinion almost if not totally impossible. It's just too difficult with all those different things and thoughts in your counscious. And I like playing and experimenting with my mind.

I have too admit reading in an MBTI related article that INTJ are the types most counscious of their inner processes. Second rated where INFJ.

I don't know where INTP comes on that list, but for me feeling or controlling functions is impossible.

[MysticSonic]

When I try be aware of my environment, I find it rather uninteresting; nothing that comes from this state seems worthwhile(even though I know there exists worthwhile things in it, I just don't see them.) Inevitably I do exactly what americancer did and revert back to my dominant function and fall back into deep thought and a state of disconnectedness from my environment.

The only thing I've been able to do is observe the cases in which Se is used a certain way and replicate its behavior. This is an extremely chancey behavior, however, as I often reproduce the Se behavior in the wrong circumstance...because I don't understand its cause. But I believe that replicating such behavior is as far as I'll ever get with "buffing" my Se up.