Do you believe your type changes during your life?

[Jarno]

Experience, upbringing, and many other variables come into play with thoughts or actions, though.

I also think there is a distinctive line between what is your personality and what is your experience. Experience are memories, which can be used etc when necessary. Personality is the tool which uses memories etc.

In other and simplified words, the choice of action that you take in a given situation depends on A) personality and B) upbringing experiences moral etc.

A is part of yourself and unchangable
B is information that you can store and use, and is changable

Even more simple:

Personality is your harddrive. It can be a maxtor 400 gb or speedster 300gb etc, but you cannot change it. You are born with some type.

Experience, memories upbringing etc, is the data that is stored on your harddrive. It can and will change during your lifetime.

[Morcheeba]

How could you think that type will change? That's impossible; unless you have a psychotic break, I think your ego functions will always contaminate the use of other functions. You can get better at other functions, but that's about it, you would have to strain yourself quite a bit to use functions other than the ones in your ego. Anyone who thinks they can change makes me wonder if they understand the different elements at all.

[Creepy-]

I think your type stays the same throughout life, unless there is some major trauma or physical injury [a la Phineas Gage].

You may change as a person in the sense that you develop certain parts of your personality and hopefully grow and become a better version of yourself over the years, but I think your socionics type remains fixed.

It would be interesting if it could change, actually... and in some cases maybe even desirable. I'm thinking of couples like my parents who, though they obviously have a bond and care for each other, simply do not and never will understand one another or have consistently smooth interactions despite wanting to [super-ego relations, btw]. They both try, and they both fail. But they still love each other and stay together... it's been thirty-two years. If one of them could change their socionics type and the things about themselves that go along with it, they would. But it's who they are. EDIT: I was going to say that changing your type - say exchanging an Se-preference for an Si-preference, would be like swapping one nose for another one... but then I thought, well surgeons can pretty much do that now. Maybe if socionics type is ever found to correlate to physical spaces in the human brain, they could go in and snip out or rework something in there to change one's socionics type... /end crazytalk].

[Creepy-female]

I was going to say that changing your type - say exchanging an Se-preference for an Si-preference, would be like swapping one nose for another one... but then I thought, well surgeons can pretty much do that now. Maybe if socionics type is ever found to correlate to physical spaces in the human brain, they could go in and snip out or rework something in there to change one's socionics type... /end crazytalk].

"Look Ma, I can finally realize my dreamz of becoming a gay white shaman INFp!"

[DirectorAbbie]

I've heard that socionics is nature and enneagram is nurture. It makes sense to me, since socionics is more a way of thinking and perceiving and enneagram is more a way of wanting and getting. If something is nature, it is the way it is. I don't believe socionics type can change, though I believe subtype can. Apparently people believe enneagram does and should change.

[Jarno]

though I believe subtype can.

no way.

It's sounds to me like: well you cannot change your overall height, but I do believe that you can change the length of your finger.

[DirectorAbbie]

no way.

It's sounds to me like: well you cannot change your overall height, but I do believe that you can change the length of your finger.

I'm not a very firm believer in subtypes. I think they're more nurture than nature; that people can lean toward one or the other depending on who they're around and which is best for their current life situation. I don't see subtypes as being as concrete as types.

[Creepy-]

"Look Ma, I can finally realize my dreamz of becoming a gay white shaman INFp!"

Something like that

[Galen]

If types are in any way changeable (which I highly doubt), then it's probably not something that can happen consciously, as IEs are theoretically unconscious functions.

[Morcheeba]

no way.

It's sounds to me like: well you cannot change your overall height, but I do believe that you can change the length of your finger.

Haha, good analogy.

[xixi]

I think of it as a sort of narrowing of the focus of the obviously numerous potentialities of the brain. If people's methods of perceiving the world didn't come into sharper focus, then we'd all be sort of amorphous blobs of personality compared to how we actually are.

I'm inclined to agree here...the environment may play quite a large role in determining the strength of the various functions, with functions that are consistently rewarded becoming stronger over time.

Also, I think if you're very self-aware, you can control which functions you use, thereby strengthening some, while weakening others.

the consensus in the psychological literature at the moment is that personality is 60% genetically determined. how that translates to type is hard to say, but it seems to leave quite a bit of room for adaptation and change...

[crazedrat]

i think it's atypical but possible to change type entirely; but frequent to change type as the situation surrounding you changes, subtly. for changing your type altogether, it would require an abandonment of some major area of your life and then a recalibration toward something very new. given enough time i think a type change is plausible.

[Jarno]

guys guys,

If type would change, would your VI change too?

Since your body/face is related to your type, it should change too. Well we all know that our body/face doesn't change (it just ages), so it's very unlikely your type changes. Type is as biological as the rest of you...

[crazedrat]

jarno, jarno, do twins VI the same? are twins always the same type?

[greed]

guys guys,

If type would change, would your VI change too?

Since your body/face is related to your type, it should change too. Well we all know that our body/face doesn't change (it just ages), so it's very unlikely your type changes. Type is as biological as the rest of you...

Could it be that one's VI and type originate from the same phenomena (such as one's original type), that they're free to diverge later on but hardly ever do? Probably not, but.. someone can take that thought and either run with it or don't.

I'd venture to say that, if one's type could change, so would certain aspects of VI; a lot of mannerisms, body language, facial expressions, and subtle cues exhibited by the individual are related to type.. or at least related to personality.

[somavision]

If type were to change would it happen gradually or suddenly?
Would there be a time where you were between types?
typological limbo?

I have seen nothing that suggests to me that peoples fundamental perceptions change in normal circumstances.

General patterns of behaviour over a long term from experience and long term environment, yes. Short term behaviours due to immediate circumstance, yes. Fundamental perception relating to socionic type, no.

Show me how this changes and I'll consider it.

[DirectorAbbie]

are twins always the same type?

This has been a popular topic in the past. My mom's a twin and she's her twin's supervisor. But they're fraternal, so that probably doesn't count. I only know one set of identical twins well enough to say. One is an SEE. I haven't typed the other, but I think she might be a thinking sensor. I'll try to get her type.

[Jarno]

Since none of us has observed people for their whole life and could have noticed any type change.

There have been people who have been observed their whole life... Because it's a well known fact that personality disorders don't go away during your lifetime (sure they can age and wear and tear, but don't change, you don't go from borderline to obsessivecompulsive)

So I think every evidence we can think of points towards no type change. Jung didn't spot it, nor did augusta, etc.

The twin thing is interesting, cause I know 1 twin couple who have different personalities, the clown and the sadist, and they had a somewhat different look. I don't know whether these were 1 egg or so twins...

[DirectorAbbie]

The twin thing is interesting, cause I know 1 twin couple who have different personalities, the clown and the sadist, and they had a somewhat different look. I don't know whether these were 1 egg or so twins...

The twins I mentioned have a somewhat different look...like the fullness of the cheeks or the shape of the eyes or something. Identical twins can look different because appearance is partially nurture, depending on which muscles are used more and thereby where wrinkles show up.

[JohnDo]

The reason why twins may look different is epigenetics.

So twins might have different types - but can't change their types...

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Interesting posts everyone, thanks.

[AQ]

Every so often I hear or read it being said that type doesn't change. It seems with some people it's almost like a religion thing of belief that it can't.

I don't know if it can change, but i've always wondered about this. I don't really have any objection to the idea that it can change. Other psychological things in a person can change as far as I know, why can't type change through need or through some sort of trauma maybe or something else?

What do you think?

I'd be interested to hear both sides, especially if anyone out there thinks that it doesn't change, is there anything concrete for this?

Sometimes I wonder if it's just convenient to say that it can't change to make socionics seem more bombproof, but maybe there are things about this I don't know.

Only thing I can think of is that i've read that psychologists accept the idea of I and E being a biological thing, but as a dichotomy, it doesn't cover which dominant function and certainly not the second one.

There was the case of Phineas Gage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. His behaviour changed radically after an accident to his left frontal lobe. But, there is also a less-accepted theory that the change was brought on by self-pity/anger.

[Joy]

Every so often I hear or read it being said that type doesn't change. It seems with some people it's almost like a religion thing of belief that it can't.

I don't know if it can change, but i've always wondered about this. I don't really have any objection to the idea that it can change. Other psychological things in a person can change as far as I know, why can't type change through need or through some sort of trauma maybe or something else?

What do you think?

I'd be interested to hear both sides, especially if anyone out there thinks that it doesn't change, is there anything concrete for this?

Sometimes I wonder if it's just convenient to say that it can't change to make socionics seem more bombproof, but maybe there are things about this I don't know.

Only thing I can think of is that i've read that psychologists accept the idea of I and E being a biological thing, but as a dichotomy, it doesn't cover which dominant function and certainly not the second one.

I've thought about this recently for obvious reasons. No, I don't think type changes though. That'd just be too convenient.

I think people's personalities and behavior change though.

[silverchris9]

It is my opinion that type occurs at such a fundamental, and early, level in the development of the personality during infancy and possibly even in the womb, that to genuinely change types after about the age of four, maybe even younger, is close to impossible, simply because you would have to retrain your brain to such a massive extent.

Behavior of course changes drastically throughout one's life, and one can choose to exhibit behaviors not necessarily in line with one's type, although, to use my chosen metaphor for the thing, one would be learning the "weak" functions from the "outside in" rather than from the "inside out," and so their use would be more laborious and probably less effective.

EDIT: although, I hadn't really considered the possibility of a more gradual type drifting, perhaps to a nearby type (i.e., changing one or two dichotomies). This may be a possibility, but only very gradually and unconsciously.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

I've thought about this recently for obvious reasons. No, I don't think type changes though. That'd just be too convenient.

Yeah, in some ways it's good to think there's a core part of us that always exists, and I think it's more than just a 'nice wish' from experience ... so far.

I think people's personalities and behavior change though.

And that type - knowing about it or not, shouldn't necessarily be seen as a stumbling block to changes - either through experience in life or otherwise, it's simply a preferred mode of information which we aren't always concious of in ourselves (which is obvious in a way, but sometimes reading about socionics too much can make one see things in themselves that probably isn't there, over-cooking)

[pianosinger]

...do you think that one would be most likely to stay within the same quadra? That is, perhaps observable type can change based on maturity, experience, life circumstances and other factors, but the valued functions will remain constant in such a way that one will always be observable to belong to the same quadra.

?

[Jarno]

...do you think that one would be most likely to stay within the same quadra? That is, perhaps observable type can change based on maturity, experience, life circumstances and other factors, but the valued functions will remain constant in such a way that one will always be observable to belong to the same quadra.

?

If-questions are per definition ridiculous.

[pianosinger]

I was not intending to address whether or not type can change, only if it can change, what would be the most likely observations.

If-questions are per definition ridiculous.

You, of course, are entitled to your opinion and need not join in the discussion.

[Aleksei]

My theory is that 90% of the time people don't change type but simply become dualized, and actualize themselves as generic examples of their quadra (which I've mostly managed to do -- my Ti is developed to the point where it's indistinguishable from an ego function. Still working on Se though). However, deep stress and trauma that would make you believe your regular strategy has failed you could prompt a change of values that'd make you pursue behavior that is completely outside of your own quadra. That's probably an extremely rare occurrence though.

[Words]

...do you think that one would be most likely to stay within the same quadra? That is, perhaps observable type can change based on maturity, experience, life circumstances and other factors, but the valued functions will remain constant in such a way that one will always be observable to belong to the same quadra.

?

I think it would change in a way which is helpful/healthy for the individual, so doesn't have to be the same quadra.

Edit: User smilingeyes says type can change. As I understand it he says the temperament is the most stable part, but type within temperament can change. He came to this conclusion through personal observation. Also as I understand it he's not ruled out temperament change, just that he's not seen it.

He went something like ESFj - ENFj - ENTj - ESTj.

[Aleksei]

The problem with that theory is that stable temperament means you'd be most likely to adopt IM elements within your super-ego, which are elements that people dislike, and are quite simply bad at emulating. I don't buy it.

[Words]

The problem with that theory is that stable temperament means you'd be most likely to adopt IM elements within your super-ego, which are elements that people dislike, and are quite simply bad at emulating. I don't buy it.

That depends on what you mean by dislike? I like them all and wish I was good at everything.

[Aleksei]

Devalued functions oppose our values system. In the case of super-ego functions, they are functions that we might feel curiosity about, but they're opposed to our usual approach to life, to what we consider important, and we usually don't consider them too worthy of consideration (especially under closer scrutiny) as they deal with the same situations as our ego block functions, but in a manner we are ill-equipped to handle. Oftentimes we try to emulate the super-ego block in order to become more balanced people, but we always find that we can't handle it properly, and revert back to our ego functioning. For me as an Fe-ego, that usually means trying to get my life in order (Te-role), and then having everything fall apart around me due to my utter lack of discipline. Recently, I swore off IM for a month so I could concentrate on my studies (I have a veritable mountain of final papers to finish)... and logged in to see what was going on two hours later.

[pianosinger]

Staying within the same quadra (with changing temperament) makes more sense to me than staying within the same temperament (with changing quadra).

Like, I am generally feeling more low-energy lately, since I have two small boys who wear me out; but before I had kids, I definitely felt more energized and motivated to do things outside the realm of unescapable responsibility.

[Jarno]

I think Expat said he changed from LII to LIE as he grew older. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

He said he usually tests as LII in MBTI.

[Aleksei]

MBTI doesn't have an LII type, dimwit.

[Sir Knight]

I'm inclined to think that if you could legitimately change your type then it'd render the whole theory meaningless. I mean, from the perspective of interpersonal relationships, switching your type could turn a good friend you previously had no reason not to trust into a conflictor and turn a once-enemy into your best pal in the world. Your relationship with your parents would improve or fall apart or just get plain weird.

[Jarno]

MBTI doesn't have an LII type, dimwit.

Don't pretend that you don't know what I mean

[Crispy]

You are born a Type
You live as a Type
You die as a Type

Type does not change. This has been known by even Aushra Agusta herself. If someone claims they changed type and provide more evidence for the changed type than the original, in reality they were the 2nd type all along and trying to kid themselves into being infallible. Anyone who follows these twisted trends are unable to think for themselves. It makes no sense for type to be able to change.

[DividedsGhost]

Depends if you believe in sanity.